refence pics

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refence pics
Topic Started: Dec 29 2005, 06:05 PM (3,505 Views)
tavrikgannon	Sep 25 2007, 08:05 PM Post #16
Advanced Member Posts: 217 Group: Members Member #105 Joined: May 15, 2006	Here is the pecking order of troops, as I understand it. The lowest level of trooper would, obviously, be your support services, like the scanning crews and technicians. I lump them into the soldier catagory because everyone who is in the military is a soldier first and their military occupation second. It is no different than in the real world of military service. Seconded by something like the fleet trooper - the two troopers standing guard in Tarkin's meeting room, the two who drag Needa's body away, etc. Third up on the Imperial trooper evolutionary scale would be you standard storm trooper. Forth in line would be your specialized troopers, like your sandtroopers, snow troopers, seatroopers, scouts, TIE PILOTS, stealthtroopers, magma (or redtroopers).... and so on. Next came the storm commandos. These were hand selected troops that were the best of the best of all the known types of stormtroopers. And lastly, the very cream of the crop of those elite commandos were the ones who were picked to become the Royal Guardsmen. They literally were the best of the best of the best - Bill.



SpitFireScout	Sep 25 2007, 11:44 PM Post #17
Advanced Member Posts: 309 Group: Members Member #347 Joined: August 21, 2007	nice, i like being informed.



Peregrinus	Sep 26 2007, 01:55 AM Post #18
Advanced Member Posts: 111 Group: Members Member #236 Joined: December 1, 2006	Think it out, though. Did the Devastator have the Desert Sands Stormtrooper Company just sitting on their bums until the ship happened to run across a desert planet that needed a beach-head? It makes more sense to me that training and equipment for various terrain types is part of Stormtrooper training. Scouts are something different, though. That's a primary function, not an alternate terrain type. Although the added training probably means that all Scouts start at Corporal, or the equivalent... That said, I do think some of the special terrain training is more intensive and requires more expertise, and this is where the Seatroopers and Radtroopers come in. But I still think the Magmatroopers have a bit more specialized kit than red-painted standard Stormtrooper armour. A high-capacity cooling system at least an order of magnitude above that of a Sandtrooper, at the very least... I do like the red troopers, though, even if I don't think they're Magmatroopers. As I said, I think they're an elite Stormtrooper unit, like the 501st, that answer directly to Isard. --Jonah



crazas	Nov 17 2007, 06:54 AM Post #19
Captain of the Guard TX 3758 Posts: 1,056 Group: Supporter Member #228 Joined: November 6, 2006	I got this one scanned from Galaxies # 3. If anyone wants it i have it in a higger resolution, anyway, I think this one is better than the small one we use to have.



Peregrinus	Nov 17 2007, 07:26 AM Post #20
Advanced Member Posts: 111 Group: Members Member #236 Joined: December 1, 2006	YOu got to it before I did. I finally got my scanner set up, and am resolving OS issues. heh Notice also that they're carrying SE-14Rs, not E-11s. As always, though, for the rest of the details, don't put too much stock in what's portrayed. Artistic variation also gives as a Lumiya a little different from other illustrations of the character. --Jonah



crazas	Nov 17 2007, 04:20 PM Post #21
Captain of the Guard TX 3758 Posts: 1,056 Group: Supporter Member #228 Joined: November 6, 2006	Yep. little difference, and it seems that all magmas are left handed (LOL)



Peregrinus	Nov 19 2007, 12:28 AM Post #22
Advanced Member Posts: 111 Group: Members Member #236 Joined: December 1, 2006	Kneejerk reaction -- I know it's the forum topic, but that's not a pic of Magmatroopers. See my earlier comments on the subject. --Jonah



crazas	Nov 19 2007, 02:30 AM Post #23
Captain of the Guard TX 3758 Posts: 1,056 Group: Supporter Member #228 Joined: November 6, 2006	Those are, in fact Magma Troopers, the only writen reference that states that magma troopers are different and equiped to work in Mustafar like enviroments is Wiki, and we all know Wiki is not the most reliable source of info



Peregrinus	Nov 19 2007, 07:40 AM Post #24
Advanced Member Posts: 111 Group: Members Member #236 Joined: December 1, 2006	Did you read the story that picture's from? There is no volcano anywhere in that story. The setting is a barren planetoid with a research station on it. Lumiya is on a mission for Imperial Intelligence. The Troopers are only described as "crimson-clad Stormtroopers" in the story, and the backstory supplement refers to them thusly: "Of the four platoons of stormtroopers under lumiya's command, two squads were selected from the Emperor's Royal Guardsmen, and are distinguished by their red stormtrooper armor." The first X-Wing novel came out some nine months later, so Isard didn't exist yet to be referenced by name. I don't know if the authors talked to each other, so I don't know if the red armour and Isard's red uniform are coincidence or collusion. I don't know, between the Databank on the Star Wars web site and the Star Wars Visual Dictionary, which came first, but I think the Databank entry is quoting David West Reynolds from the Visiual Dictionary. I don't know if he was thinking of the red Stormtroopers from this story, or if he was just embellishing the blurb on Stormtroopers, but there was no associated photo or illustration, for these, or any other, later, source that echoed that write-up. Summation: I don't like to burst bubbles. It's not my hobby. But I dislike inaccuracy, when it's avoidable. The only red Stormtroopers we've seen weren't associated with volcanic environments or any terminology pertaining thereto, and the Magmatroopers/Volcanic Terrain Stormtroopers have never been illustrated or described in any source I've ever seen or heard of. I am not against red Stormtroopers. They've been seen. But with only one source, that won't get past 501st approval. But nothing has been done for the Magmatrooper, so anything we do or say is pure speculation and nothing 501st-able. sigh Have a feeling I'm going to be the bad guy again. Downside of being an accuracy nazi. --Jonah



COS_Vader	Nov 19 2007, 08:00 AM Post #25
Detachment Leader Posts: 1,607 Group: Supporter Member #1 Joined: June 1, 2005	Both Lumiya's Troopers and Magma Troopers are red Stormtroopers. I doubt we need to separate them just because of name - the armor's the same either way. Magma Trooper Databank Entry: http://www.starwars.com/databank/organizat...troopers/?id=eu The Lumiya pic with the red troopers was by Colleen Doran The old Marvel Comics (they are getting reprinted now), issues 60-61, 63, 88, 95, 96, 100 and on. "Lumiya: Dark Star of the Empire", a West End Games supplement published in Star Wars Galaxy Magazine #3.



Peregrinus	Nov 19 2007, 11:24 AM Post #26
Advanced Member Posts: 111 Group: Members Member #236 Joined: December 1, 2006	lol Figured I'd see you in here soon. I apologize for being such a stickler. It's just important to me that everyone knows what's being talked about. I guess my point that I've been trying clumsily to make is that the Lumiya story should be considered a single reference for the Sovereign Protectors Detachment to justify red Stormtrooper armour for Royal Guards, and not here for the Magmatroopers. Were there really red Troopers in the old Marvel comics? I missed so much of that run, and I'm still filling in the blanks. And if so, was it in a volcanic setting? I'll say that again. I know quite a lot from the movies, novels, Dark Horse Comics, role-playing games, and other odds and ends... but the Marvel Comics run represents a lot of missing data for me. If somethign being referenced was in there, scans would be appreciated, because chances are I missed it. --Jonah



COS_Vader	Nov 19 2007, 01:30 PM Post #27
Detachment Leader Posts: 1,607 Group: Supporter Member #1 Joined: June 1, 2005	The pics are in this post, and yes it's Lumiya and a firey setting. It's especially apparent in what you don't see in the cropped Databank pic, but in the pic from Galaxies 3 that Crazas referenced right above.



tavrikgannon	Nov 19 2007, 04:24 PM Post #28
Advanced Member Posts: 217 Group: Members Member #105 Joined: May 15, 2006	I have to point out that there are red stormtroopers that do exist in the 501st. To say that they won't get approved to be 501st is not accurate at all. - Bill



Peregrinus	Nov 19 2007, 06:42 PM Post #29
Advanced Member Posts: 111 Group: Members Member #236 Joined: December 1, 2006	In order: I have that issue, and have had since Spring of '95 when it came out. Read the story that accompanies that picture. Post Battle of Endor, Lumiya is hunting the Cron Drift with her small fleet, on a mission for Imperial Intelligence, which has led her to a former Imperial Research Station that's been taken over by the New Republic. They blast the defences, a couple assault shuttles land, disgorging the red Stormtroopers, and they blast their way in. That picture is Colleen Doran merging several events in the story into one single representative image: the initial assault of the Troopers, the burning debris from when Lumiya lands on their heels, and her confrontation with one of the researchers. It is not a "screen-grab" from the story, as such. And the flames are a result of her fleet and the Stormtroopers shooting up the place, not lava. And Bill, I know there are red Troopers in the 501st. I thought they were grandfathered in from an earlier period when standards were mroe relaxed; or else "fun" costumes that 501st members did on the side knowing they wouldn't be approvable, like the Stars'n'Stripes Trooper, or the Holmes Trooper, for example. I didn't realize red Troopers were in the Marvel comics. The only red Stormtroopers I've ever seen were in this one Lumiya story. And under current standards, that's not three sources, which an EU costume usually needs in order to pass the Legion Council. [EDIT: I've just checked the index and see that those are all Shira Brie/Lumiya issues, and not necessarily Red Trooper issues. Scanned through them in a couple nearby comic shops, and didn't see any red Stormtroopers in them at all, and no lava or volcanic planets in those issues. So I'm back to "Dark Star of the Empire" being their only appearance so far...] --Jonah



BrieKalan	Nov 20 2007, 12:19 AM Post #30
TX 3774 Posts: 104 Group: Supporter Member #370 Joined: October 8, 2007	Peregrinus Nov 19 2007, 04:24 AM Lumiya story should be considered a single reference for the Sovereign Protectors Detachment to justify red Stormtrooper armour for Royal Guards, and not here for the Magmatroopers. I would have to disagree with that point Jonah. Crimson Empire 1 and 2, plus the backstories of Carnor Jax and Kir Kanos are plenty of support for Royal Guards wearing the red armor along with the cloak/helm. Yes I realize its NOT the same, but it is accepted. The Lumiya storyline is meant as something different from the Royal Guards, and should be. We also have to remember that in EU sources, many writers plus many plotlines plus many years =unevenness and inaccuracy that we have to compromise on! Magmatroopers/Red troopers are rightfully here with Special Ops.


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