Viewing Single Post From: Rei vs Sentenal

Viewing Single Post From: Rei vs Sentenal
*Sentenal*	Apr 21 2007, 07:09 PM
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. Posts: 15,633 Group: FEFF Emperor Member #1 Joined: May 16, 2005	Quote: Analysis: Tormod's bases are well spread out, and they work very nicely with his growths. I see potential in him to become a powerful unit. At his extremely high level, Tauroneo's stats are lacking. First off, speed, the weakness all Generals have, they won't double attack. Ever. It also kills his evasion which hurts, though that is where his defense comes in. Sadly, Tauroneo has the lowest defense of all generals. His bases aren't really impressive though. Tormod's bases are well spread out, yes, but also bear in mind how weak they are compared to the rest of your party. Mage wise, you already have two, and one of those, Soren, would be at a substancially higher level than Tormod. FE9 is kinda gay in judging expected levels, due to bonus EXP, but by chapter 16, somewhere around level 18 to promoted? Maybe higher? Tormod is almost the Nino of FE9. Think of the level your party would be on, at the time. Tormod comes, with bases spread out. Good for him. Maybe if his bases compared to that of your parties stats when you got him, we would have some talking to do. Tauroneo, being a prepromote, has very good stats compared to the party when you get him. His DEF and RES automatically make him an excellent tank. His STR is high enough for him to deal good damage, and hold heavy weapons with little problem. And he has the weapon ranks to do so. And while normally a non-factor, Tauroneo has a very good MAG base. Compare his base MAG to the MAG of other lance users. Tauroneo's base MAG beats Jill's 20/20 MAG. It beat's Oscars. Beats Marcia's. Geoffrey's ??/20 MAG beats his base by .3. Really, only Tanith has better MAG. What does this useless MAG stuff tell me? Tauroneo is one of the best candidates for the Flame Lance. So, should he need to, Tauroneo can attack that RES stat too, and he is one of the best melee users in your army who can use the Flame Lance effectively. But still, when a unit comes with 22 base DEF, and 14 base RES, that is nothing to laugh at. If you didn't want to bother training up Gatrie (not a bad option), Tauroneo is a quick, easy, no work substitute. Lets just do a quick comparision to Gatrie here. When you get him earlygame, he probably won't get any level ups. You get him again on chapter 13, so probably level 9-10. Tauroneo comes chapter 21. So, by Chapter 21, Gatrie might be... I dunno, with Gay Bonus EXP, lets be very nice and give him 16 level ups in 9 chapter. I find 16 level ups in 9 chapters to be ridiculous, but this is FE9. Gatrie, 20/5: Quote: HP: 45.6 STR: 23.2 MAG: 2.7 SKL: 16.3 SPD: 10.8 DEF: 23 RES: 7.5 LUK: 8.8 Well, Tauroneo has HP, MAG, SKL, SPD, RES, and LUK on Gatrie. An in STR, Tauroneo is only 1 off from Gatrie, and only one off in DEF as well. Tauroneo IS a quick, easy, no work subsitute for your Tanking needs. Not only is he probably better statistically than Gatrie when you get him, but he also has that lovely Resolve Skill. Which pushs Tauroneo's STR, SKL, and SPD to a leave FAR beyond that of Gatrie. Tormod, while he might be able to substitute Soren at 20/20, he isn't a quick, easy, no work substitute. He requires BEXP leaching, he requires babying. Here, lets just show you why. Lets say Soren is level 19. Maybe a bit higher, maybe a bit lower. Soren, Level 19: Quote: HP: 26.1 STR: .9 (ROFL) MAG: 16.8 SKL: 17.7 SPD: 15.2 DEF: 4.7 RES: 16.8 LUK: 10.4 Know, not suprisingly, Soren is crushing Tormod. Therefore, Tormod is NOT a quick subsitute for Soren. There are a good 12~ levels between the two. Therefore, Tormod is NOT an easy subsitute for Soren. I can't really see any reason why you would want to bring Tormod into your army at this point. He is weak, and he would required leaching of EXP that could be going to your unit units, and LOTS of leaching of Bonus EXP, that could be going to people like Jill, Astrid, Zihark, or the various other Good to decent units you get at the time. So, Tauroneo does a GOOD job of being a quick, easy, no work subsitute. Tormod does NOT. Quote: Tormod Joins automatically at the end of chapter 15 Tauroneo is recruited near the end of chapter 21. He can tank the enemies easily, well, all except Ena. Tormod can take advantage of early game BEXP and can easily catch up with the rest of your party. Tauroneo does his job in his joining chapter, he tanks the enemies, he has his starting A level weapons as well. He can't one round enemies unless they are Myrmidons/Swordmasters. Interesting here... In joining situations, you basically explained how Tauroneo does, but you left out an important part. How Tormod does. Tormod can't accord to be engaged in melee combat, that is a given. Not with his 4 DEF base. Not with his 20 HP. Not with his 26 avoid. He dies if he get attacked by a melee unit. Soren might not have much DEF himself, but at least he has Supports. He would have B Ike support, giving him 1 Atk, and 15% avoid. Against magic users, he is slightly better. The 9 RES helps him not get rocked. But the 20 HP doesn't. Tormod isn't dealing a whole lot of damage now. He has like, 13 might with a fire tome. And the weight of the fire tome brings his SPD down to 8. So he isn't doubling. Better watch him, or he might be getting doubled. Worthless unit. Why bother? He has a terrible joining situation, and the chapters afterwards aren't much better for him either, seeing the level he comes at. Quote: Well well. Tauroneo gets to have one of the best skills in the entire game. However, there is a problem. It only activates when he is at 1/2 HP or less. And it takes his STR, SKL, and SPD, and multiplies each one by 3/2. His STR and SKL will be godly, but his speed will still not be enough to DA enemies, nor will he be dodging attacks. Sadly since he will already be taking hits to activate this, he will still be taking damage while it's up, he has next to no evasion. Lets see just how much his stats will increase from their base level when this activates. 221.5=33 STR. 181.5=27 SKL. 13*1.5=19.5 SPD. First, lets just talk about that godly STR. 33 STR? Name a unit with better STR than that. When this activates, Tauroneo will have an Atk of 40 with an Iron Lance. 43 with a Steel Lance. Or, with his starting equipment, 45 with his Spear, and 48 with his Silver Blade. Jesus Christ. He already had decent SKL, but then his SKL becomes godly, and nothing will be dodging his attacks. Now, lets move onto the SPD. 19.5 SPD? That is better than what Tormod will have when you get Tauroneo. Unless you expect Tormod to gain 20 levels in 6 chapters. When he hits, he his for incredible damage. When he doubles, the enemy dies, no question. And he still has 24 HP, 22 DEF, and 14 RES to live off of. Quote: Celerity, this is what makes Tormod different from other mages/sages. He can actually keep up with your group. All mages and knights have 5 movement. All Sages and Generals have 6. Give that a +2 and look at that, for the entire game, Tormod will have 7 or 8 movement, he can almost keep up with your mounted units on the front lines. This can also be used for if you have someone on the front line you need to heal, he can go in and heal them. He doesn't need to leave, he can avoid attacks with a nice Celerity is next to useless for a backlines unit like Tormod. What are you gonna do, run him out in front of everyone? Get him killed? Any sane tactican keeps their armies together. And you know what that also means? You keep your Generals with you as well. You don't leave them behind because they have less MOV. That's retarded. There is no reason for a Mage to have 8 MOV. You NEED the amount of MOV to at least equal that of your Tanks. People like Tauroneo and Gatrie. People who are on the very front, sucking in hits. Now, lets do some direct comparisions here, rather than beating around the bush. Chapter 21. Tormod would probably be close to promotion ~~if you bothered with him~~. So lets stick him at 19/0. Just as a note, you are out of your mind if you think Tormod would be 20/13 by chapter 21. How in God's name do you figured that? Chapter 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and then 21. 6 chapters. Tormod comes at level 9/0. You are suggesting that in 6 chapters, Tormod gains 25~ levels?! I won't even humor that until you justify it. I challenge you. How could you possible make him gain that many levels in such a short period of time, without feeding him five billion kills, and all your BEXP, which negatively effects the growth of the rest of your army. Good fucking luck with justifying that Tormod, 19/0: Quote: HP: 26.0 STR: 4.4 MAG: 15.4 SKL: 13.8 SPD: 14.4 DEF: 7.0 RES: 14.4 LUK: 12.2 Tauroneo, XX/14 Quote: HP: 48.0 STR: 22.0 MAG: 11.0 SKL: 18.0 SPD: 13.0 DEF: 22.0 RES: 14.0 LUK: 14.0 Well, Tauroneo is GOD compared to Tormod. Thank god for prepromotes vs Ests, eh? Tauroneo wins in HP (by 22), STR (by 6.6, STR-MAG), SKL (by 4.2), DEF (by 15), and LUK (by 1.8). Holy shit! Is that 22 HP, and 15 DEF? I hope Tormod has some huge victories to make up for this shit... Tormod wins by MAG (by 4.4), OH FUCK YES, YOU GO TORMOD. O wait, Tauroneo has 7~ more STR than Tormod has MAG... Okay, how bout his SPD win?! He only wins by 1.4? 1.4!?! That is hardly fuck! If Tauroneo isn't doubling, then is Tormod? And once Tauroneo's Resolve kicks in, Tormod is destroyed in comparision. EASILY. Quote: Tormod has Sothe, Devdan, Reyson, and Calill Tauroneo has Rolf, and Largo wow, both have kinda crappy choices... Largo will probably not be used due to being EXTREMELY fragile. He may be fast and powerful, but his defense is ballz. Rolf would choose ANYONE on his support list before Tauroneo. Probably Shinon or Marcia. So sadly, Tauroneo won't be supporting any units. However, Tormod has a larger variety of units to support. He would probably go for Calill and Reyson. So in supports, well, Tormod can actually get supports, so he wins. From his supports Tormod gets max attack and tons of hit. He won't be missing ANYTHING and he gets another +5 attack. He's an offensive monster now. He will be DAing anything but swordmasters/myrmidons easily and be doing crazy damage at the same time. Largo gets 15% avoid from Tauroneo, and there is a plus for supporting a Tank. You only have to be 3 spaces from him. You can see how far the units move, so you can position Largo accordingly. Plus, if Largo is EXTREMELY fragile, what is Tormod? Tormod has more choices, yeah? The only one of those choices I see being used is Reyson. If you are using Tormod, odds are, you aren't using Calill. Especially when Calill isn't even that good. Fire-Fire gives 3 ATK, and 15% hit. No avoid. So, you are still fragile as hell, just hitting a bit harder. Tauroneo is still hitting harder when you get him, and for a very long time. 22 STR>15.4+3. Quote: Tauroneo only wins defensively. He can take more hits, and live longer than Tormod. Tormod can actually kill his enemies though. Tauroneo only takes out a chunk of the enemy's HP with a hit, whereas Tormod will devastate his opponents and consistently one round them. Only wins Defensively? The fact that he is a tank puts him into combat ALOT more than Tormod. Tormod isn't able to be on the front line, and therefore isn't able to be on the receiving end of the enemy's attack in their phase. Tauroneo is. Tauroneo might enter combat like 3+ times on the enemies turn. And then again once on your turn. Tormod would only be able to once, on your turn. Tauroneo is entering combat about 4 times as much as Tormod. Each time, he his hitting the enemy. Not twice, mind you, but he hits about 4 times counting enemy turn and your turn. Tormod hits twice in your turn, and none in other turns. Therefore, since Tauroneo is attacking more enemies, and getting twice as many hits out as Tormod is, who is better in offense? Offensive Defense FTW. Quote: Oh snap, Tauroneo wont even be on your front line. His horrible movement of 6 wont catch up with your paladins' movement of 9. Tormod has 8 movement, he can move with the rest of your group easily and stay behind them to prevent getting hit. Who in their right mind would move up so you leave behind your tanks? Hell, are you going to leave Ike behind too, since he is on foot? You move your army together. Give me one good reason why to leave Tauroneo behind. Not like there is a Tactics rank, or your army is CONSTANTLY moving, never stopping to fight. Quote: Tormod has access to long range magics, he will most likely be able to use Meteor and Blizzard since he is a fire main, and will have C wind as a Sage. So he can give out the long range punishment. Because those tomes are worth a shit, right? Oh wait, they suck, and you would only be able to kill off easy units with them anyway. Quote: Tormod can kill all Laguz without a lot of trouble. Elthunder + his supports = almost dead/dead dragon without being counterattacked. Tauroneo would get devastated by a dragon, even if he tries to use a spear, he will do near to no damage. Less... 20/20 Tauroneo has 25.3 STR. If he is fighting a dragon, he will probably get hit pretty hard, so lets assume Resolve is on. So that makes Tauroneo's STR 38~. Now, lets say he is using a Laguz Lance. Might of 12, and gets doubled to 24 against Laguz. So, Tauroneo has 62 ATK against Dragons. His 20/20 SPD is 14.8. Resolve makes that 22.2. I don't know what SPD the Dragons have, but surely, that is enough to double attack. So, which is better? 62~ ATK, or 42~ ATK? Quote: Yet, the most common Laguz is beast. Wow, Tormod has more movement than them :D. He can DA most beasts and rape them with FIRE. Yet again, Tauroneo won't be killing them in one hit, even with Resolve. He will get DA'd everytime, even with resolve. too bad defense doesn't increase with resolve, cause then Tauroneo would take near to no damage. If Resolve puts Tauroneo at 20~ SPD when you first get him, and how could Tormod possibly double? Tormod has 25.1 SPD at 20/20. If Tauroneo is getting doubled with 20 SPD, 25 SPD is not doubling Beasts. Oh wait, maybe Tauroneo isn't getting doubled, and your just saying things. And Tauroneo already takes near to no damage. 22 DEF is alot. And with a Laguz Lance, you can have him OHKO them. But, even if he doesn't, so what? He is still entering combat much more than Tormod, therefore dealing more damage that Tormod, by the very nature of being engaged in combat on the enemy turn. Quote: Yet again, the problem is, it's hard for Tauroneo to be on the front lines because of his poor movement. Logic dictates that you would give the boots to a better knight like Gatrie. Not hard for sane people who keep their troops together. This debate assumes both of these characters are used. But it doesn't assume the tactican is retarded, and leaves a unit with 22 base DEF behind to go "LOL CHARGGE1!!!" Quote: The only thing that Tauroneo has is that he's more durable. Tons of defense and HP. The main problem is that Tormod is going to stay behind your main group sniping enemies from behind. If he gets hit by anything, it's maybe a bow user, hand axe, javelin, or magic user. Other than that, your front line paladins and the such will take care of the rest. He has DEF. Lots of DEF. He is a very good subsitute for your other Generals. He has good base stats, and the best Skill in the game. With that Skill, he becomes a monster. Ur turn.


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