Viewing Single Post From: Rei vs Sentenal

Viewing Single Post From: Rei vs Sentenal
Rei	Apr 23 2007, 11:01 PM
UNIVEEEEEERSE! Posts: 527 Group: FEFFer Member #678 Joined: March 19, 2006	Quote: Soren, would be at a substancially higher level than Tormod. Soren is a high tier character and has amazing supports with Ike + Stefan. He has amazing Quote: Tormod is almost the Nino of FE9. Tormod is not an Est, nor a Nino. He comes in the middle of the game, in a way he's like Heath of FE9, except better. Don't blow things out of proportion. He comes mid-game, lower level than the rest of your party, however, Tormod CAN be used in the next few chapter WITHOUT getting raped horribly. As useless as Devdan is, I must say that Tormod is one of the best candidates for getting him. Why? Because of Celerity, unlike the other people who can get him, his move outranges Devdan's attack range without boots. This chapter, you're going to want to move fast. What does that mean? Paladins, Jill, and other high mov units. Tormod is a high move unit that can easily help dispatching the physical units in your way in the beginning. You're gonna want to rush to get those chests before the thieves come. High moving character that attacks res? Sounds good to me. He can even get BEXP before the chapter. Quote: Tauroneo, being a prepromote, has very good stats compared to the party when you get him. His DEF and RES automatically make him an excellent tank. His STR is high enough for him to deal good damage, and hold heavy weapons with little problem. And he has the weapon ranks to do so. Tauroneo doesn't have "very good stats compared to the party when you get him", even though he is level 14. He may be able to be a wall, but he still doesn't one round anything other than Myrmidons, mages (lol), and some Swordmasters. Quote: And while normally a non-factor, Tauroneo has a very good MAG base. Compare his base MAG to the MAG of other lance users. Tauroneo's base MAG beats Jill's 20/20 MAG. It beat's Oscars. Beats Marcia's. Geoffrey's ??/20 MAG beats his base by .3. Really, only Tanith has better MAG. What does this useless MAG stuff tell me? Tauroneo is one of the best candidates for the Flame Lance. So, should he need to, Tauroneo can attack that RES stat too, and he is one of the best melee users in your army who can use the Flame Lance effectively. What the... No, Magic stat isn't the ONLY thing that determines whether a character is good at using a weapon. In fact, speed is more important cause Tauroneo won't DA. Another unit who CAN DA will dish out more damage in one round should use it, not Tauroneo. Quote: I can't really see any reason why you would want to bring Tormod into your army at this point. He is weak, and he would required leaching of EXP that could be going to your unit units, and LOTS of leaching of Bonus EXP, that could be going to people like Jill, Astrid, Zihark, or the various other Good to decent units you get at the time. Jill doesn't need BEXP, Astrid may need a few levels to start her up, but she has paragon, not a whole lot at all. Zihark shouldn't be used when you have Stefan. You won't have to train Zihark at all, cause Stefan is omgwtfhax with his bases. Mist and Rolf will have already gotten some BEXP and will be up close to most of your team. Tormod is a good candidate for BEXP, I don't see how he isn't. Quote: Know, not suprisingly, Soren is crushing Tormod. Therefore, Tormod is NOT a quick subsitute for Soren. What are you talking about, substitute? No, Tormod can be fielded WITH Soren. Quote: Tormod isn't dealing a whole lot of damage now. He has like, 13 might with a fire tome. And the weight of the fire tome brings his SPD down to 8. So he isn't doubling. Better watch him, or he might be getting doubled. Ever hear of attacking from range? In the next few missions, it's full of TONS of melee units. Tormod can stay out of their ranges strategically and move in fast behind your paladins. Tormod will see a lot of action against the enemies without getting attacked back. And if he gets hit, big whoop, he won't die, he can retreat with his huge movement to Mist or a promoted Soren. Quote: Now, lets move onto the SPD. 19.5 SPD? That is better than what Tormod will have when you get Tauroneo. Unless you expect Tormod to gain 20 levels in 6 chapters. When he hits, he his for incredible damage. When he doubles, the enemy dies, no question. And he still has 24 HP, 22 DEF, and 14 RES to live off of. 6 chapters? Have you played the game? Tormod can be used in chapter 17, the longest in the game with 4 sequences. Tons of enemies and easy experience opportunities, best news is, he is easily protected by staying behind your primary advancing unit. AKA, the Paladins. My point is, 2 levels per chapter is EASY, and the BEXP from some of these chapters is enough to boost your lower characters' EXP, including Tormod. Chapter 17 should count as about 3 chapters of EXP. Quote: Celerity is next to useless for a backlines unit like Tormod. What are you gonna do, run him out in front of everyone? Get him killed? Any sane tactican keeps their armies together. And you know what that also means? You keep your Generals with you as well. You don't leave them behind because they have less MOV. That's retarded. There is no reason for a Mage to have 8 MOV. You NEED the amount of MOV to at least equal that of your Tanks. People like Tauroneo and Gatrie. People who are on the very front, sucking in hits. Your paladins are better for the job. They will be moving faster through the mission, supporting each other, they can one round and dodge. Oscar is the best defensive unit in the game easily. Characters with 7 movement like Ike, Stefan, Boyd, well, anyone other than Sages and Generals can keep up. Your paladins make an EXCELLENT defensive wall of RAPE. You can keep Tormod right behind them to kill off units that weren't killed in one round during the enemy's phase since your paladins wont one round ALL of them. As for Tormod moving up. Give him the knight ring, he is an excellent candidate for it due to his high ass move. He can move in front of your paladins, rape an enemy, and then behind if you are at a front with tons of units. He can do this all without gasp getting hit! You clearly underestimate the power of movement. Why use Gatrie, Tauroneo, and Brom to slow you down losing more BEXP when you can use better units with higher movement and with the same/better tanking abilities while being able to rape the enemy force. Fine, I overexaggerated Tormod's level by about 5 levels. He definitely won't be tier 1 by the time you get to Tauroneo though. level 8 sage would make more sense. Hell, let's make it level 7. Tauroneo xx/14 HP: 48.0 STR: 22.0 MAG: 11.0 SKL: 18.0 SPD: 13.0 DEF: 22.0 RES: 14.0 LUK: 14.0 Tormod 20/7 HP: 33.5 STR: 7.8 MAG: 19.5 SKL: 18.6 SPD: 19.5 DEF: 10.7 RES: 19.5 LUCK: 14.6 HP: Big win for Tauroneo, good shit. ATK: lol 22 str attacking def, vs 19.5 MAG attacking res? I say the magic wins. And add in devastating support bonuses, and Tormod does crazy damage. When you add in Resolve, well, Tauroneo will already be at half HP or less LOL. He can still be getting hit, and it's not very likely since Tauroneo lags behind the rest of your party. Hit: Unneeded, both units WILL be hitting. AS: Tormod, no contest. tied when Tauroneo uses Resolve (lol read comments above) Avoid: Tormod, no contest. DEF: Tauroneo, good shit. RES: Tormod. mmm, nice magic defense against long range magics that you are now starting to see a lot of without getting doubled. Good shit! Quote: Plus, if Largo is EXTREMELY fragile, what is Tormod? Tormod is a guy who attacks from behind another unit duhr. Yet again, you think I'm just sending out Tormod, Reyson, and Callil? No, What I'm saying is that you can advance with the best units you have, meaning Jill, Oscar, Kieran, Astrid, etc. Mainly, your mounted units who move tons of spaces. Now what can Tormod do? When he's a sage, he can heal your frontline units that don't have Sol. Tormod is behind your main advancing unit with your other units. Tormod shouldn't die, and he can still get action. lol @ not using Calill. She's one of the best Prepromo in the game, possibly the third after Titania (God) and Stefan (Jesus). She is wtfhax at usefulness [/steals Lucas' names for them]. Dude, to put things in a nutshell, she is the Harken of FE9. She has great stats, amazing weapon levels, comes with Meteor (yay!), and supports Tormod here :D. She is amazing and can be used as another Sage that doesn't need extra training. Fux Tormod only having Reyson, he gets Calill too. Quote: Only wins Defensively? The fact that he is a tank puts him into combat ALOT more than Tormod. Tormod isn't able to be on the front line, and therefore isn't able to be on the receiving end of the enemy's attack in their phase. Tauroneo is. Tauroneo might enter combat like 3+ times on the enemies turn. And then again once on your turn. Tormod would only be able to once, on your turn. Tauroneo is entering combat about 4 times as much as Tormod. Each time, he his hitting the enemy. Not twice, mind you, but he hits about 4 times counting enemy turn and your turn. Tormod hits twice in your turn, and none in other turns. Therefore, since Tauroneo is attacking more enemies, and getting twice as many hits out as Tormod is, who is better in offense? Offensive Defense FTW. BZZT, WRONGO. First off, Tauroneo won't be spearheading your entire attack force. Why the hell would he be in front? He will be lagging behind the rest of your group since you get more BEXP if you finish the chapters faster, AND now you are wasting a turn of advancement for a ton of your units instead of doing the smart thing and having your Paladins crush the front. If you don't remember, you Paladins should all have Axes, seeing as they are the best unit in the game, Tauroneo doesn't yet again, the ONLY units he will be killing will be low HP swordmasters + Myrmidons or other weakened units. Tormod can kill Generals, Paladins, Birds, Beasts, Halberdiers, Warriors, and Wyverns in one turn EASY. Taking advantage of weak ass resistance, and slow speed. In case you didn't know Sentenal, FE9 has the most durable enemies of any of the US games. Hell, they are more durable than FE6 enemies too. Obviously, magic would be a better attacking choice when the enemy has 10+ less resistance than defense. And the swarms of Wyverns being weak to wind is a nice touch for Tormod too since he can just use Elwind to rip them a new one. Quote: Who in their right mind would move up so you leave behind your tanks? Hell, are you going to leave Ike behind too, since he is on foot? You move your army together. Give me one good reason why to leave Tauroneo behind. Not like there is a Tactics rank, or your army is CONSTANTLY moving, never stopping to fight. Ike has more movement than Tauroneo. He can actually keep up AND fight, he also gets a permanent 1-2 range weapon later on too. And he's good enough to send with Aether and rape a huge part of the map. You're right, there is no tactics rank, but as a reward for speed, you get more bonus EXP. Tauroneo will only slow your team down, you will have your Paladins that will kill TONS of things during the enemy phase. They can also move after attack, hell, there's a reason why they are the best class in the game. Tauroneo isn't a substitute for your paladins either. The way you word things makes me thing Tauroneo is only a replacement unit . Try to argue that killing more units is better for EXP? Well, unlike Tauroneo, your paladins WILL be DAing enemies without a skill. Quote: Because those tomes are worth a shit, right? Oh wait, they suck, and you would only be able to kill off easy units with them anyway. Actually, they are useful. Even in the very last chapter, you can snipe the General with the wishblade from far away without getting raped by a godly S level weapon. mm, Double Meteors + Reyson being near him with supports. only boosts the hit % and enormous damage coming from his meteors or blizzards. Quote: Less... 20/20 Tauroneo has 25.3 STR. If he is fighting a dragon, he will probably get hit pretty hard, so lets assume Resolve is on. So that makes Tauroneo's STR 38~. Now, lets say he is using a Laguz Lance. Might of 12, and gets doubled to 24 against Laguz. So, Tauroneo has 62 ATK against Dragons. His 20/20 SPD is 14.8. Resolve makes that 22.2. I don't know what SPD the Dragons have, but surely, that is enough to double attack. So, which is better? 62~ ATK, or 42~ ATK? Seeing as dragons have MAD Defense, and nowhere near as high resistance, and Tormod having his ~42 attack, double attacking WITHOUT a skill, and NOT GETTING COUNTERATTACKED. Hell, the way you put Tauroneo out there, he's gonna get raped. Laguz are MAD strong and they WILL hit not even the evade from a support from Largo will help. 90 hit from their weapon alone, plus their godly stats. Fine, Tauroneo does more damage only when he has Resolve activated, but Tormod does more damage when Tauroneo has more than 1/2 HP, and he won't get horribly raped since he will be behind your tanks. Laguz don't have 2 range, not even breath attacks. The only Laguz in the game with 1-2 range is Naesala. I would much rather give that Laguz Lance to someone like Oscar who can DA and use Sol to regain lost HP, while dodging attacks due to ~40+ Evasion from SUPPORTS alone. Give Kieran a Laguz Lance, give Makalov or Ike the Laguz sword, give Astrid the Laguz Bow. No one else should be using the weapons other than the ones listed. Quote: If Resolve puts Tauroneo at 20~ SPD when you first get him, and how could Tormod possibly double? Tormod has 25.1 SPD at 20/20. If Tauroneo is getting doubled with 20 SPD, 25 SPD is not doubling Beasts. Oh wait, maybe Tauroneo isn't getting doubled, and your just saying things. And Tauroneo already takes near to no damage. 22 DEF is alot. And with a Laguz Lance, you can have him OHKO them. But, even if he doesn't, so what? He is still entering combat much more than Tormod, therefore dealing more damage that Tormod, by the very nature of being engaged in combat on the enemy turn. Err what? You use Resolve stats, WAY TOO MUCH. You overplay it. Even if you were to have Tauroneo be in the front and being attacked, He gets DA'd until he's around 25 HP depending on level. after that, he gets massive stat boosts, but it doesn't cut it. He STILL GETS RAPED. The way you play him is if a retard played and tried to frontline everything with your general. Sounds good until you see the movement. And as said earlier, you lose BEXP if you go slowly. kthx. As for taking no damage? Bullshit/10[/steal]. Dragons do massive damage, and even if Tauroneo has lost tons of HP for Resolve, he still gets fucked up the ass by Laguz in hard mode. Dragons rape him, Tigers deal out decent damage against him, like, 10+. Dragons dish out a LOT more. Tauroneo phailz and will get raped if he spearheads in that chapter. Not just that, but the sage boss has Bolting. He would clearly target Tauroneo to like, rape him up the butt as he's being assaulted by Laguz. Bad idea. Tauroneo's avoid isn't nearly high enough, and you rely on resolve far too much. In this case, Resolve just means you are gonna do more damage while STILL getting raped. Quote: He has DEF. Lots of DEF. He is a very good subsitute for your other Generals. He has good base stats, and the best Skill in the game. With that Skill, he becomes a monster. He becomes a monster all right, one that can still get raped. Fine Tauroneo can take hits, so what? Tormod shouldn't be getting hit, he can constantly attack each round taking advantages of bows, and physical hitters. with his CONSTANT 1~2 range. Tauroneo can get a Javelin, fine. But it's soo weak compared to Tormod's magic. From what I've seen, you downplay Magic attack. Attacking resistance is the best way to kill enemies, FE9, most durable physical enemies, what is the answer? Rape them with magic. Any good tactician would know that. Now I am sorry for so many hypotheticals in here in the later bit of my arguments, so I'll just say what I believe on it. Tauroneo is a waste of space. His movement isn't good enough to be on the front line, his tanking ability is wasted, and he wont get to use his resolve skill. Tormod can keep up with your army, so can Ike, Stefan, etc. There is no way Tauroneo can keep up, nor can he spearhead the front, so he technically doesn't get 4 combat rounds, he gets none. I would rather give that space to Elincia who can actually serve a purpose to be a second mounted healer. Tauroneo can't really be used in combat without slowing down, losing BEXP. Tormod can, he can keep up, rape units in the front, not get hit cause he's behind the wtfhax wall of Paladins in the front, and he's an amazing candidate for the knight ring. He gets two good support units, Reyson and Calill who can also keep up, and who can actually participate in combat. In short, Speedy pyromaniac > Old man who broke his hip on the way to the battlefield.


Rei vs Sentenal · Debates