Viewing Single Post From: Sentenal vs Nintend-fan

Viewing Single Post From: Sentenal vs Nintend-fan
*Sentenal*	May 13 2007, 12:48 AM
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. Posts: 15,616 Group: FEFF Emperor Member #1 Joined: May 16, 2005	Quote: MAG has nothing to do with HP, so let’s not abruptly change topics to make Rhys look bad. Rhys has a solid lead of 4.5 MAG over Tauroneo’s STR, kthx. NOW we can move on. It's like this: You give a plus, I give a negative. YAY WOW HE HAS HIGH MAG!!! LETS IGNORE HIS AYSMAL HP!!! Nah, sry. Rhys has a solid 4.5 MAG lead over Tauroneo's STR... Beacause you know, MAG and STR are the only things that factor into Atk!! Wait! I forgot! Tauroneo can use nearly any Sword or Lance he WANTS, while Rhys can only use shit tomes that have like, 2 might on them. And, lets not forget Resolve now, which puts his STR above what Rhys could possibly get. So nah, that isn't a "solid" 4.5 lead by anymeans. Quote: Rhys isn’t exactly a heavy combat unit either, since his main function is healing, so don’t use that excuse for Reyson. You pointed out that Rhys only BEATS 2 units in the HP department, but you need to take some other things into account: -Soren has only 1.1 more HP than Rhys. -Illyana and Bastion only beat Rhys by .9. -Mist ties Rhys in HP. -Tormod only has a 2 HP lead. -Calil beats Rhys by only 1 point. -Elincia only has a lead of .4. That’s a lot of other people in Rhys’s HP range. Rhys’s HP is among the worst in the game… but many other units share that same HP range, which goes to show you that Rhys isn’t as bad off as you originally thought. Rhys having around the same HP as units who have shit HP doesn't make Rhys not have shit HP. Fact: Rhys has TERRIBLE HP. The fact that those other units also have terrible HP doesn't change that fact. Quote: Avoid =/= Defense, kthx. We can talk about Soren’s avoid later, but that doesn’t change the fact that Rhys beats him in defense. Notice something: all the people Rhys beats in DEF are his competition on your roster. If he’s beating all them and being more durable, that’s one more reason to be using him. Durability=HP+Avoid+DEF+RES (not as much, but its there, I guess). And actually, only two of the people I listed are on my roster. Soren and Mist. So screw the others, I'll illustrate them for you. Soren: 39.1 HP, 9.7 DEF, 95.2 Avoid, 27.5 RES. Ike A, Stefan B. Mist: 38 HP, 15.7 DEF, 84.6 Avoid, 29.1 RES. Jill A, Titania B. Rhys: 38 HP, 10.7 DEF, 66.3 Avoid, 29.9 RES. Obviously, Rhys is the least durable of all these. Mist bows Rhys out of the fucking water, and she is Rhys' near direct replacement. 15.7 DEF and 29.1 RES (1 RES, who cares?), after supports? 85 avoid after supports? And lol Rhys only ties in HP. Soren? Kinda closer there. Rhys has 1 DEF on him. Soren has... 28.9 avoid on him... 29 Avoid>>>>>>>>1 DEF. Sorry, both of these units are significantly more durable than Rhys. And to top it off, both are better in Offense, because both have a good SPD Stat, Good to omg MAG stat, and Mist has decent STR for swords. So, even though his HP, and DEF is deceptively close to these two units, they are both significantly more Durable than Rhys. Therefore, Rhys is still much less durable than some of the least durable people on your team. BADDDDD Rhys. Quote: Soren and Mist barely have leads over Rhys, and that still leaves Illyana, Sothe, and Reyson, who are three units, not two. For our purposes, Reyson should count in this comparison, because both him and Rhys are utility units, not heavy combat fighters. Okay then, all your points on Rhys' MAG, and dealing damage are null? Okay, fine with me. Rhys, the one trick pony. We both now ackowledge he sucks too much in durability and too medicore in SPD to be anything other than a utility unit. Quote: That’s still enough to DA a good amount of enemies; more than Tauroneo at least. It's enough to double attack like... Generals. Maybe some Wyverns. Sorry, I sorta posted proof of that... Quote: Rolf is a viable option for Rhys, since his only other options are Shinon, Marcia, Mist, and Tauroneo. You probably aren’t using Shinon if you’re using Rolf in the first place, so the two of them probably won’t support. Marcia is a bad option for Rolf. Tauroneo comes way too late; by then, Rhys can have A Rolf if he wants. That leaves Mist, who still has room to support Rolf, even if Rhys does. Wait... Rolf is actually getting used? Why? If I want a bow users, I'll use Astrid. Quote: Titania supports Boyd, Ike, Rhys, and Mist. Ike won’t have room on his roster to support Titania, since he wants A Soren B Oscar. Mist will probably support Jill, and Boyd, Rolf, and Mordecai are all more likely choices for her than Titania. Titania might want Boyd, but a Rhys support is welcome too. Titania can have Boyd and Mist. Sorry, still no room for you. Quote: Ulki has barely any support options, and Boyd definitely won’t support him, so that’s another option open to Rhys if he wants it. Mia’s only other options are Illyana and Largo. She certainly doesn’t want Largo, so that’s yet another option open to Rhys. WHY DO I WANT TO USE OTHER BAD UNITS? Ulki is a freaking Laguz Shit bird, and Stefan and Zihark>>>>>>>>Mia. I'm not using either of them. So, in conclusion, the only people who 'want' your support are crappy units that I wouldn't even be using in the first place, and the rest have other, BETTER people to support. So, Rhys isn't getting an supports. Quote: Rhys’s bonuses from this setup are: ATK: 2 DEF: 1 ACC: 25 AVO: 5 Rhys becomes even more of an offensive powerhouse, with slightly fortified defenses. ...What? Listen, dude, getting 25 Hit and 2 Atk doesn't make you an offensive powerhouse, when you already overkill MAG, and yet you still don't have the AS to reliabily double. Or did Rhys have problems hitting things before the 25 hit? And the 1 DEF and 5 avoid are pitiful, and not worth mentioning. Quote: -Largo, Rolf It’s a pretty pathetic roster. Rolf doesn’t want Tauroneo because he’s too busy supporting Rhys and… someone not named Tauroneo. That leaves Largo. Largo would prefer A Muarim, probably, so that leaves room for Tauroneo to get a B support with him, with the following bonuses: DEF: 1 ACC: 5 AVO: 10 Rhys is the clear winner in supports. I'll say it again... Why am I using Rolf? Hell, why am I using Largo? Even with my supports, they don't exist. And still, I find it funny, that my supports come dangerously close your supports, with just 1 B. 1 DEF and 10 Avoid vs 2 Atk 1 DEF and 5 Avoid? If it wasn't for that 2 Atk, then Tauroneo's 1 B support would be >>>>>>> Rhys' A and B support ROFL Quote: Yeah, “one of” the most fragile units. Most of the other mages are in the same boat. Already disproven. Quote: For the purposes of a Tank, Tauroneo is completely beaten by Gatrie and Brom at the same level: <insert Tauroneo> <insert Gatrie> Tauroneo wins in MAG, RES, LCK. Gatrie wins in… everything else. SPD is a tie. Gatrie is the clear winner. Now, here’s Brom: <insert 20/14 Brom> Same as Tauro vs. Gatrie, except this time, Tauroneo fails to even tie in SPD. He has leads in MAG, RES, and LCK, but Brom wins EVERYWHERE ELSE. With two other, superior tanks readily available, there’s no reason for Tauroneo to exist on your roster, good bases or no. You know what? Having slightly worse DEF than two of the most tanky units in the game doesn't mean that Tauroneo has bad DEF. His DEF is still excellent, his RES is still great. His STR is still great. So what if he isn't AS good as those two? You havn't proven anything other than Gatrie or Brom > Tauroneo, when this is Tauroneo vs Rhys. Are you trying to say Tauroneo has bad DEF or something, like what I did with my comparisions? Doesn't look like it. Quote: Keep him out of range of enemies, it isn’t difficult in the earlier chapters where his defenses make him a liability. In the lategame, he has the stamina to take one or two melee attacks, not to mention his magical tanking abilities. He actually is better defensively earlier, because he has a decent HP base... It's later on when his HP growth bites him in the ass that he becomes terribly fragile. And he can take one melee attack. MAYBE two, but I kinda doubt it. Plus, if you keep him out of ranged attacks of enemies, that means he can't heal your front line. You know, the people who need it the most. So you are even handicapping your own healing utility! Because if he is behind the first row, he is in range of enemy ranged attacks. Quote: When you only lose 1 AS… not really. Rhys prefers healing anyway. Losing 1 AS at 20/20... From the lightest Book you have.... Yeah, they are heavy for him. And lets not forget how easily rapable Rhys's 5% STR growth is. He could easily never get a STR leve up. And lose like... 3 AS. Quote: Last time I checked, this was Rhys vs. Tauroneo, not Rhys vs. everyone. All those AS values hardly matter in this debate when Rhys STILL DAs more than Tauroneo. Yet another reason to use him over the overshadowed tank. THANKS FOR MISSING THE POINT. The point, that you so gracefully missed, was that Rhys doesn't have good AS. Tauroneo doesn't either, so I'm not arguing it. But guess what? Fire Emblem doesn't care if you have 17 AS, or 14 AS, if neither double. THAT is my point. NEITHER UNITS DOUBLE. Or hardly double. This is a reason why Rhys isn't good in offense. Tauroneo isn't either, but that isn't his function. Come on, lets look at the large picture! Quote: Anyways, what’s doubling Rhys? Only Swordmasters… and Bertram, but that doesn’t concern Rhys, since he has huge RES against Bertram’s Runesword. Against all non-Swordmaster enemies, Rhys is doing fine. How does that make him terrible? (Tauroneo is getting doubled by Swordmasters, Cats, Paladins, and Bertram, and only doubles the other Generals. Rhys does way better) Great, nothing is doubling Rhys. Care to address my point on Rhys hardly doubling anything? Rhys only doubles like, Generals and Wyverns. And Doubles only Generals with a Shine tome. Therefore, against the rest, he is only hitting once. Making his offense weak. Tauroneo's Offense isn't good either. But at least his Defense rapes. Rhys isn't good in either (and is terrible in once). Quote: If you see two Bow Knights near your frontlines, why the hell would you be stupid enough to put Rhys in range of BOTH? Look, most distance attackers will be: -Foot units that will attack once and be unable to move away afterwards. -Magical units that just tink against Rhys. So really, all you need to do is keep Rhys away from large hordes of Paladins, and he’ll be doing fine. Because you sorta have to advance in order to complete chapters? Plus, with them being mounted, they sorta have lots of MOV. And, OTHER healers can do it. So why can't Rhys? Oh wait... Rhys sucks in DEF, thats why... You see, even I forget these things. Quote: I was saying that magical units are the majority of distance attackers, which is pretty much true, especially with all the mages running around with Bolting and whatnot. More often than not, melee enemies will be using close-range weapons instead of distance weapons. There are more bows and javelins than magic users. And when enemies can, they use distance weapons. That is how the AI works. Quote: And I’m not saying that it does, I’m saying that if these units are worth using, then why isn’t Rhys? He’s just as durable as most of the other magical units, as well as Reyson and Sothe. Already addressed. Quote: Rhys arrives before Mist does, so he has a good-sized level lead when she arrives, so in the earlygame, Rhys is actually better than Mist. Post-promotion, Rhys is also better at attacking, since he wields lighter weaponry, and attacks RES. All the Sages can’t heal until they promote, and by then, Rhys is a solid part of your team anyway. Mist actually has a decent STR stat, so she isn't getting slowed down as much as Rhys. Mist is also needed for the Black Knight fight. She is insanely more durable than Rhys. She is fine on offense. And she gets mounted on promotion too. And, instead of getting shitty Light Magic, she gets swords. So, don't use her at your own risk. I mean, you are free to shoot yourself in the foot. It's just stupid. Also, the second one of your mages promotes to Sage, you have a better Healer than Rhys. Quote: If you didn’t want to use Gatrie or Brom, why would you want to use Tauroneo? Obviously, if your Gatrie gains some bad levelups, you could use Brom, and vice-versa. The odds of BOTH turning out badly are really slim, and that isn’t a viable reason to be using Tauroneo. Sure, he’s got the best skill in the game, but that’s what the Resolve scroll is for. If your Gatrie got bad level ups, he would still be better than Brom, who would have gotten no use up to that point, because you were using Gatrie. So its too late for Brom, and you have a bad Gatrie. Tauroneo time. And plus, Tauroneo is a fine unit to use, even if you are using either Gatrie or Brom. You havn't disproved that in the least. Quote: A 5% chance over 33 levelups gives Rhys good odds of gaining a point or two in STR. A point or two is all he really needs, anyway. Besides, the averages take every possible outcome into consideration already, so we should really be debating those, not simple “what ifs”. We are talking deviations of stats too. And with that STR growth, he could very well have a raped STR stat. Quote: Then Tauroneo must be really crappy offensively, because he’s doing worse. If Tauroneo has 14 SPD, and Rhys has like, 18 SPD, neither double a unit with 16 SPD. That is what this comes down to. Tauroneo isn't good in offense. I've already said that. Rhys being marginally better than shit doesn't make him good lol Quote: The whole purpose of it is to help a unit’s defense. So why not use it on someone with low defense? Who did you want to give it to, Gatrie? Oscar? Quote: Rhys’s main purpose is healing, which he does phenomenally. Offense is secondary for him, and he’s fairly strong in that area. Rhys is very useful, because usefulness doesn’t always equal high stats. Rhys' usefulness in healing ends with Mist, and then super ends when Soren promotes. Healing isn't in high demand, so it isn't really an OMG HUGGGE PLUS. Quote: Newsflash: Steel Sword =/= Silver Blade. Give Tauroneo a Steel Sword if you want, but Rhys STILL outdamages him. There’s no funds rank, but that doesn’t mean that you spam Silver weapons in the middle of the game. That’s just dumb. Look at me, I'm gonna make a claim (you don't use Silver Weapons midgame), and no back it up! Give me a good reason why. It's not like you can't buy anymore. No Funds, remmeber? Quote: No, that’s called being dumb. Silver Blades are tough to come by, and you need them more in the final chapter than in chapter 22. Tauroneo gets Steel Weapons at best. At worst*, because nothing worse than Steel exists anymore. And lol try backing it up next time, that Steel Weapons are something to be used "at best". Quote: Well, even if I did, I’m not the only one. 8===========D~~~~~~ Quote: Not using Iron Weapons =/= Spam Silver Blades. Rhys outdamages Tauroneo. Rhys has more AS than Tauroneo. Therefore, Rhys has better offense than Tauroneo. Good job on having better offense than a unit with bad offense. It doesn't make Rhys' good. Quote: It’s a typo. Turn on your Gamecube and check it if you don’t believe me. You asked for the source, so I was just telling you. Quote: Spamming Silver Blades is retarded. Moving on… Back up that claim with evidence. Quote: Yeah, there are less than 10 Dragons in the entire game. Not many Tigers either. Most Wyverns won’t be strong enough to bring Tauroneo to below half health. Resolve is wasted on Tauroneo. Holy shit, you pwn! Wyverns don't stand a chance against Tauroneo, by YOUR OWN ADMISSION. Btw, Tigers are kinda common. And endgame, which what Tauroneo is around for, Dragons are a big thread. And there are also plenty of Warriors to help get his HP down. Btw, this kinda pwns. Either I take shit damage, or I go beast mode. Win win. Quote: Good, we agree that Rhys is more likely to get an Occult than Tauroneo. Flare > Luna. Resolve > Flare > Luna...? And not like it even matters, since Rhys isn't getting one in the first place lol I don't even have to waste a scroll on him to get a pwnage skill. Quote: Tactics or no tactics, you still want to use the units that are most helpful, and Tauroneo isn’t one of them. Rhys has no use on the frontlines anyway, so, like I said, keeping up isn’t a concern for him. Rhys has to be 1 row behind the frontlines if he wants to heal. With no tactics, Tauroneo can keep up find, and he tanks very well. I mean, you even said it yourself: Even Wyverns don't pose a threat to him. Quote: At least he puts his skill to use. Tauroneo rarely is able to activate Resolve. Untrue. Axes or Dragons or Tigers can do the trick. Quote: No, that doesn’t work. Miledy is high tier, and is superior to Bors and Barth. Tauroneo is low tier, and is INFERIOR to Gatrie and Brom. Rhys has more uniqueness time than Ellen. I stand by what I originally said. If we don't assume Rhys' use, he is just a filler character you drop and never think of again. Just like Ellen. Tauroneo has great bases, just like Miledy. Plus, people actually look at base Tauroneo, and their Gatrie/Brom when you get them, and go ":hmm: Maybe I want to use this guy. He is unscrewable in stats, has great weapon levels (AKA uses any weapon he wants almost), and the best skill in the game." People look at Rhys, and go " When do I get Mist, so I can drop this fag!" Quote: Sure, let’s bench Rhys, and wait until Chapter 15 (roughly) before we can promote a Sage to heal our units. Ye… no. Because Mist doesn't exist until chapter 15. Ye... no. Quote: It makes him incredibly useful for the earlygame, and worthwhile even after that. Even if you want to argue that you bench him when Mist comes (which I don’t really agree with), Rhys is still guaranteed to be used in chapters 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9. Seven chapters. Tauroneo gets… 1, then gets benched, while you use Gatrie or Brom. Last time I checked, 7 > 1. You are forced to use him... Okay? You aren't forced to use Tauroneo...? Okay? That is like saying Roy>Percival, because you are forced to use Roy the entire game. When Tauroneo is present, he is better than Rhys. And that is the point here. This last point of yours is kinda weak. :richie: Quote: The reality is, this is low tiers. You never use any of these guys instead of their superior counterparts. This works to Rhys’s advantage, because his “replacement” doesn’t come until seven chapters later, and she’s severely underleveled and stuck with a crappy promotion weapon. Rhys is one of the better low tiers, because you can actually consider using him. Tauroneo… not so much. You’ll bench him after chapter 21, because his replacements are already in your army, probably with level leads. (One of them, anyway) Tauroneo is a subsitute, and Rhys is filler. Which is better? Btw, Swords>Light. Plus, I think I already addressed most of this in a previous paragraph. So, in closing, lets look at these things: What makes a unit? It is a combination of Offense, Defense, and utility. Offensively, Tauroneo is bad, but so is Rhys. Defensively, TAURONEO FUCKING BLOWS RHYS OUT OF THE WATER. Utility wise, Tauroneo is a prepromoted Tank, who requires no training/babying. Tanking utility. Rhys is your earlygame healer, who you drop after you get Mist, because then he isn't 'best' in anything anymore. Yeah. So, in conclusion, Otto Von Bismark (aka Tauroneo) > Rhys.


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