Viewing Single Post From: Sentenal vs Nintend-fan

Viewing Single Post From: Sentenal vs Nintend-fan
Nin-Finity	May 13 2007, 08:30 AM
Nintend-Fan Posts: 410 Group: FEFFer Member #735 Joined: April 22, 2006	Okay, before I start with my counters, there’s one large point I’d like to make about Rhys’s superiority to Tauroneo. Rhys arrives in chapter 2, and he’s the only healer that you’ll have for awhile. You are definitely going to use him; hell, you’re forced into bringing him, so you might as well use him. This is the case for 7 chapters. Rhys gets 7 chapters of guaranteed use and unmatched utility. Why? Because nobody else can heal. That makes Rhys one of the most important units on your roster for those 7 chapters. Then along comes Mist. Let’s say that we got Rhys to level 8, because 4 levels over 7 chapters is reasonable for a healer. Level 8 Rhys HP: 23.1 STR: 0.2 MAG: 11.9 SKL: 9.0 SPD: 6.6 DEF: 1.0 RES: 14.2 LCK: 9.5 Level 1 Mist HP: 16 STR: 1 MAG: 4 SKL: 4 SPD: 7 DEF: 2 RES: 7 LCK: 6 Mist wins STR… by .8. She’s doomed to be using heavier weapons than Rhys upon promotion however. (more on that later) She wins SPD by… .4. Not exactly impressive, especially since it’s only being applied to see whether or not you get DAed by enemies. And lastly, she wins DEF by 1. Rhys, however, not only has a larger DEF growth, but also has a lead of 7.1 in HP; easily better than 1 DEF. Where else does Rhys win? MAG, by 7.9. Mist heals 14 damage with a Heal staff, but Rhys heals 22.1. Which would you rather have? Rhys wins in SKL, which is useless for now, but lets him hit well when he promotes. Rhys has a lead of 7.2 in RES. That’s more than twice Mist’s RES. Rhys is a magical tank. Rhys wins in LCK by 3.5, which helps in many areas. Even after chapter 9, Rhys is a viable option for healing. If you want to use Mist, you need to either feed her BEXP, or she’ll be underleveled for pretty much the whole game. Mist gets stuck with a crappier class upon promotion. She’s forced to use melee weapons, which doesn’t allow her to attack RES like Rhys does, but also handicaps her, because her MAG is better than her STR. She also is stuck with heavier weaponry than Rhys. Tauroneo is recruited in Chapter 21. By the time you reach him, however, you’ve pretty much finished 3/4 of the chapter. However, Tauroneo needs to compete with two other Generals to earn a spot on your roster. 20/14 Gatrie HP: 52.8 STR: 27.6 MAG: 3.2 SKL: 21.2 SPD: 13.0 DEF: 28.2 RES: 10.2 LCK: 11.0 If you’ve been using Gatrie, he’ll probably be at or near Tauroneo’s base level when he arrives. Same for Brom, pretty much. Anyways, Sentenal, your only argument against this has been “What if you get a bad Gatrie?” Well, let’s look at Gatrie’s growths: Gatrie’s Growths HP: 80% STR: 55% MAG: 5% SKL: 55% SPD: 25% DEF: 60% RES: 30% LCK: 25% Gatrie is tied for highest DEF growth in the game. Is it likely that his DEF will turn out poorly? No. His growths in HP, STR, and SKL are also very reliable. He’s got decent RES, and is even doing well enough in LCK and SPD. Overall, Gatrie has reliable growths. Even if you do start leveling Gatrie, and he gets a few bad levelups before he leaves (unlikely), you can always fall back on Brom. 20/14 Brom HP: 49.8 STR: 24.2 MAG: 5.5 SKL: 23.4 SPD: 15.2 DEF: 27.2 RES: 11.2 LCK: 9.0 Both of them are clearly outdoing Tauroneo when he arrives. Now, Brom’s growths: Brom’s Growths HP: 75% STR: 45% MAG: 10% SKL: 50% SPD: 25% DEF: 55% RES: 25% LCK: 20% Fairly reliable overall, although he’s really only a substitute for the superior Gatrie. But hey, that makes Tauroneo a substitute for a substitute, which is really pathetic. Brom has no really shaky areas, except LCK really. Most likely, you’ll have one of them, whichever one you use, turn out better than Tauroneo. Tauroneo gets benched after Chapter 21. You used him for 1/4 of a chapter. Remember, you used Rhys for at least 7 chapters, and you might even use him over Mist. Therefore, Rhys is clearly better than Tauroneo, mainly because you actually use him. Okay Sent, if I skip some of your points, it’s because I already covered them in that big point I just made. So… here we go: Sentenal Rhys has a solid 4.5 MAG lead over Tauroneo's STR... Beacause you know, MAG and STR are the only things that factor into Atk!! Wait! I forgot! Tauroneo can use nearly any Sword or Lance he WANTS, while Rhys can only use shit tomes that have like, 2 might on them. Don’t forget that Rhys attacks RES, and Tauroneo attacks DEF. Give Tauroneo the better weaponry, but Rhys STILL deals more damage. Sentenal Rhys having around the same HP as units who have shit HP doesn't make Rhys not have shit HP. Fact: Rhys has TERRIBLE HP. The fact that those other units also have terrible HP doesn't change that fact. Yeah, I never said it did. My point is that low HP doesn’t stop other units from being great, so it shouldn’t stop Rhys. Sentenal And actually, only two of the people I listed are on my roster. Soren and Mist. So screw the others, I'll illustrate them for you. Yeah, except you didn’t give Rhys any supports. :\| Here’s the stats with Rhys’s supports added: Soren: 39.1 HP, 9.7 DEF, 95.2 Avoid, 27.5 RES. Ike A, Stefan B. Mist: 38 HP, 15.7 DEF, 84.6 Avoid, 29.1 RES. Jill A, Titania B. Rhys: 38 HP, 11.7 DEF, 71.3 Avoid, 30.9 RES. Titania A, Rolf B Rhys has solid DEF leads over Soren, which Soren counters with 25 avoid. Remember though, DEF never varies. Dodge relies completely on the RNG. I prefer solid numbers to random numbers, personally. Mist has a less impressive 15 avoid lead, and 4 DEF over Rhys. Rhys’s answer to that is superior RES, and better offense. However, Rhys would probably have a level lead over Mist if we discount BEXP. So a 20/20 comparison isn’t exactly accurate, since Mist would be a few levels lower. Sentenal Okay then, all your points on Rhys' MAG, and dealing damage are null? You’ve been arguing that Tauroneo is mainly a defensive unit. Does that make your points on his offense null? No. So why would that apply to my argument that Rhys is mainly a utility unit? Sentenal It's enough to double attack like... Generals. Maybe some Wyverns. Sorry, I sorta posted proof of that... Sentenal in 2nd Post So... With a Shine tome, you double nothing save Generals and Bishops. With a Light tome, you double nothing other than Generals, Wyverns, Bishops, and MAYBE Warriors. Lol contradictions. You posted proof that he DA’ed Generals, Wyverns, Bishops, and “maybe” Warriors. That’s more than just Generals. Tauroneo is the one who can only DA Generals. Not Rhys. Sentenal Wait... Rolf is actually getting used? Why? If I want a bow users, I'll use Astrid. Wait… Tauroneo is actually getting used? Why? If I want a tank, I’ll use Gatrie. See what I mean? Sentenal Titania can have Boyd and Mist. Sorry, still no room for you. Mist wants Jill, and Boyd and Mordecai are both more welcome than Titania. Besides, are you using Mist and Rhys at the same time? Probably not. So if you’re using Rhys, there’s room on Titania’s roster for a support with him. Sentenal So, in conclusion, the only people who 'want' your support are crappy units that I wouldn't even be using in the first place, and the rest have other, BETTER people to support. So, Rhys isn't getting an supports. I’ve put up a reasonable argument over what Rhys’s supports could be, and he can easily support Titania, and Rolf if he gets used. Sentenal ...What? Listen, dude, getting 25 Hit and 2 Atk doesn't make you an offensive powerhouse Yeah, but nearly-capped MAG does. Sentenal And the 1 DEF and 5 avoid are pitiful, and not worth mentioning. It helps. It’s better than nothing, after all. Sentenal I'll say it again... Why am I using Rolf? Hell, why am I using Largo? Even with my supports, they don't exist. Why are you using Tauroneo? Suit yourself, don’t support Tauroneo if you don’t want to. His options are all crappy anyway. Sentenal You know what? Having slightly worse DEF than two of the most tanky units in the game doesn't mean that Tauroneo has bad DEF. His DEF is still excellent, his RES is still great. His STR is still great. So what if he isn't AS good as those two? You havn't proven anything other than Gatrie or Brom > Tauroneo, when this is Tauroneo vs Rhys. If Gatrie or Brom > Tauroneo, then Gatrie or Brom is used over Tauroneo. When Tauroneo ceases to exist on your roster, then Rhys is obviously doing better. Sentenal Plus, if you keep him out of ranged attacks of enemies, that means he can't heal your front line. You know, the people who need it the most. So you are even handicapping your own healing utility! Because if he is behind the first row, he is in range of enemy ranged attacks. Not everyone is on the frontlines. And if someone on the frontlines needs to be healed, Rhys can afford to take one ranged attack during the enemy phase. Sentenal But guess what? Fire Emblem doesn't care if you have 17 AS, or 14 AS, if neither double. THAT is my point. NEITHER UNITS DOUBLE. Or hardly double. This is a reason why Rhys isn't good in offense. Fire Emblem certainly cares if your AS is 17 or 14 when an enemy with 12 AS walks by. Or an enemy with 19 AS. See what I mean? You can’t shove aside a solid AS lead and say it means nothing. That’s like me ignoring Rhys’s lower DEF and screaming LOOK AT THE LARGE PICTURE. Sentenal There are more bows and javelins than magic users. And when enemies can, they use distance weapons. That is how the AI works. Yeah, but the foot units with bows and javelins aren’t problematic for Rhys, since he can take the one attack they shoot at him, and then they can’t move away. Those guys, plus mages, are far more common than distance-attacking Paladins. Sentenal Mist is also needed for the Black Knight fight. Rhys is needed for chapters 2-8. That’s more important than the BK fight. Sentenal And, instead of getting shitty Light Magic, she gets swords. Oh boy, let’s use Mist’s lower-than-her-MAG STR and attack DEF, instead of using magic and attacking RES. I’ll take Light Magic, kthx. Sentenal If Tauroneo has 14 SPD, and Rhys has like, 18 SPD, neither double a unit with 16 SPD. That is what this comes down to. What about the units with 12 SPD? Or 20 SPD? The AS difference is important. Sentenal Look at me, I'm gonna make a claim (you don't use Silver Weapons midgame), and no back it up! Give me a good reason why. It's not like you can't buy anymore. No Funds, remmeber? Yeah, exactly how many armories stock Silver Weapons? Do you seriously spam Silver Weapons in the midgame? Or are you just arguing that because it favors Tauroneo? Sentenal Good job on having better offense than a unit with bad offense. It doesn't make Rhys' good. It makes him better than Tauroneo, whom we are comparing him to. Sentenal With no tactics, Tauroneo can keep up find, and he tanks very well. I mean, you even said it yourself: Even Wyverns don't pose a threat to him. With or without ranks, this debate is still about which characters make you finish chapters quicker and more effectively. If Tauroneo is holding your entire army back, he isn’t exactly accomplishing that. Sentenal Because Mist doesn't exist until chapter 15. Ye... no. You were arguing that a Sage could be your main healer. :/ Sentenal Utility wise, Tauroneo is a prepromoted Tank, who requires no training/babying. Tanking utility. Rhys is your earlygame healer, who you drop after you get Mist, because then he isn't 'best' in anything anymore. Yeah. Rhys’s utility is unmatched in the earlygame, because YOU NEED A HEALER. Rhys has healing utility, which is the most valuable utility to have in the earlygame. Tauroneo tanks. Yay? So do Gatrie and Brom, and they do it better. Rhys wins in utility. In conclusion, Rhys is better than Tauroneo because you actually use him. He also is better offensively, and has more utility. Beastly Orange Hair > …Lacking Orange Hair.


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