Viewing Single Post From: Reikken vs Inui

Viewing Single Post From: Reikken vs Inui
+Ema Skye	May 20 2007, 10:45 AM
Snackoos = <3. It's science! Posts: 20,966 Group: Advisor Member #40 Joined: June 9, 2005	Quote: 4. No. Any negative is a detriment, no matter how small. And this one isn't even small at all. Unless I want to 20/20 a large group? What's this? Are you implying that the endgame levels are the only things that matter? I thought I could expect more from you. No, the entire game matters. Less exp now means lower levels and stats now, which is obviously a bad thing. Even later promotions, which is also obviously a bad thing. No. I'm implying that units can be at high levels even if you're using Rolf. He's not draining that much experience. He's not causing anyone to be promoted later. He gets a lot of experience when he kills things, and since basically nobody is one-rounding ever, he can pick off free kills pretty often. I've noticed this in his joining chapter until past promotion time. Quote: Doesn't require any more exp? They're on liek level 11, and he's on level 1. He's going to need craploads more exp. I don't see your logic. Well, it's still the same AMOUNT of experience points, if you want to be technical... He's underleveled, but not late enough in the game for it be a real issue. He can pick off free kills pretty often since only the likes of Titania or a lucky Boyd can one-round at this point. He's getting a lot of experience per kill and he just needs a little bit of bonus experience, and he'll be fine. Quote: Tons of exp when he kills? Rolf joins with garbage offense. The only way he's killing anything ever is if you go out of your way to set up kills for him, which hinders your team and also deprives others of exp. Double lose. Even if he was somehow getting as many kills as anyone else, he still wouldn't be catching up any significant amount. At 10 levels under, he's gaining 15 more exp per kill. With 6 kills per chapter, that's less than a level per chapter, and the rate of catch-up decreases with every level he catches up. By during chapter 17 or so, he would still be 5 levels behind, and then ppl promote, and he's still like 16/0. He was suckingmassively all up until then, improving slightly relative to the team, and then he drops back down to ubermassive suck again for several more chapters before he promotes and bumps back up to regular massive suck. But anyway, he's not getting kills unless they're fed to him, so it's even much worse than that. Those set-up kills happen NORMALLY. Unless you want the enemies to get to attack you on their phase? Of course not. Just have Rolf kill off the remaining HP. Only 15 EXP more per kill? He's getting ~40 EXP per kill in his joining chapter. I don't remember the other units getting over 20 EXP from kills in that chapter, but I definitely remember Rolf getting around 40 per kill, as I was taking notes at the time on Rolf. Yes, we've already concluded that Rolf is not as good as Oscar, Titania, Boyd, Ike, and all of the other God Tiers. You're proving nothing here by saying he is garbage compared to them when both of these units are anyways. The important thing is that Rolf > Sothe. Quote: O rly? In this game, you can steal weapons, like the rare and useful staves that you can't buy, so even on non-chest chapters... 13- chests 14- FoW 15- desert items 16- chests 17- steal Physic 18- chests 19- ,,, 20- steal Physic 21- loads of chests plus loads of staves to steal 22- chests 23- steal Physics 24- uh, I don't remember what the Bishop reinforcements have, or even if they are Bishops at all since I haven't done a non-uber speed run on this map in a while 25- ,,, 26- steal Physic 27- chests 28- h4x* 29- h4x* * You can steal some stuff here, but it's not really worth it so late There's hardly any chapters that you don't want a thief for. Don't you need more STR than the weight of what you're trying to steal? That could pose a problem for Sothe given how he starts with basically no STR and can't level-up without being the most detrimental unit ever in terms of experience. You're suggesting we use a unit slot on Sothe so he can steal a few things that Volke can snatch up along his way anyways, and do it much better with far less risk? Why bring Sothe on Chapter 26 to steal one staff? Volke can actually fight at this point, and fight WELL(if he has lethality, otherwise he's just average) given how he's promoted and has Stilettos for rape. This game isn't one where you need to rush a lot, so you don't need to bring two thieves at any point. You can just BREAK doors down, even, instead of having a thief open them. Volke is all that is needed. Sothe using a slot that a good combat unit could be using is detrimental. Rolf is a good combat unit after promotion due to solid offense. lol we sure love the word "detrimental" since these two kids suck ass Quote: And...this game isn't too restrictive on character slots, so you'll have room anyway. Let's see how many good units we have that can fit on a large chapter map, such as Bertram's chapter... Ike Titania Boyd Oscar Soren Reyson Jill Kieran Mist Marcia Astrid Makalov Gatrie Calill ohshit i think we're full up? No room for Sothe even on a huge chapter. And there are other good units besides those that could be fielded and be useful. Sothe is incapable of fighting. Sothe is incapable of taking blows or dodging. Sothe is thus incapable of being fielded unless you shield him, baby him, and rescue him. THAT'S pretty fucking gay, imo. On smaller chapters, you don't want to take him even more, since that would mean benching a good unit for a chapter. At least using Rolf is going to yield a unit with good offensive power after promotion, and Rolf has a lot of supports. Quote: Volke can fight? His base atk going into ch 11 is 12, the same as Mia's 4 chapters ago, and Mia starts off really sucky. What does that say about Volke? He has zero combat skillz. At least Mia can use a stronger steel weapon for the slower enemies. Volke can't even do that. He does double 1s to the ch 11 cavalier things. No, Volke can't fight. And you can't buy Stilettos until ch 27, btw. Volke can kill magic users, and he actually can one-round one fighter in the port chapter. Uh ohz! Yeah, Volke isn't an amazing combat unit, but his high STR growth helps him out there, and he doesnt need to be one-rounding anyways. He can pick off units that aren't dead yet, as this is common in this game unless you are earlygame Titania or Largo with a Silver Axe or something, and he can pick at units to gain EXP. Sothe can't even do that 1 damage to gain any experience points at all, whether it be experience from just weakening something, which is not taking away from others, or a large gain from a kill. You still get some before then, and you can buy Daggers early. Quote: I know Sothe can't fight. It doesn't matter. It's like saying, "Omg, Reyson can't attack." It matters because the whole point of the game is to kill the enemies and proceed to the next chapter. Sothe doesn't help with this. Reyson gives other units extra turns to increase the rape, while Sothe sits there and holds your team back by needing to be shielded and guarded the entire time since even the weaker units later on can OHKO him. Quote: No, 3 spaces is quite a nice range. There would usually have to be enemy units within 3 spaces of his supporters and somehow still alive at the end of player phase and there not be any sort of blockage other than that one supporter for him to be reached. In those few instances, don't go up there, obviously. The majority of the time, he's good to go. It's loads better than Volke's, that's for sure. So, you have to prioritize forming a shield around a unit you don't ever need on the field. Good stuff. This game likes to throw long-range magic at you a lot. What's Sothe going to do about that? Quote: Blossom? Why would I be using Blossom when exp is hard to come by? Please. 10 times better? what you talkin bout? Even if Volke is doing any better at all, which is doubtful, it doesn't even compare to how much worse Rolf is doing. He's being beaten by not one but dozens of characters and by huge margins rather than a tiny margin that may not even exist at all. Implying that Volke doesn't outdo Sothe is ridiculous. Volke is significantly more durable and significantly better at fighting. And Volke is already bad at fighting, so that makes Sothe the single worst unit in the game when it comes to fighting. Volke doing better is doubtful? Don't see how it's doubtful when Volke utterly crushes Sothe in everything except supports. If you want to field trash like Sothe to make someone like Astrid better, then we might as well field Marcus and Louise in Light to make Eliwood and Pent better. Quote: Only 24 atk is required to one-hit Reyson, too. Good thing few things have 24 atk for a long time. Except those bosses that don't move, but those are bosses that don't move, so no one cares. Not when he transforms, and he at least has Evd and RES. Sothe has NOTHING. No defensive parameters worth anything at all. Quote: Oh wow. I see you noticed that Sothe can't fight. Amazing. Only...It doesn't make a bit of difference, guys. The balls are inert. I see you still think it doesn't matter. I doubt everyone else will feel the same way. Being incapable of fighting in a game about killing things? That sucks. At least bards/dancers can give other units multiple turns to make up for it, but Sothe has nothing to make up for it. He just sucks. Quote: Who cares? He doesn't need to fight to be useful. Rolf does, and without burning loads of bexp, he sucks almost as much at it. At least Sothe doubles, lol. Rolf takes loads of resources before he can even start sucking. Before that, he's just crap. Sothe only starts with 11 SPD. Rolf has that by level 11(10 if you round up the .5). If you're using Rolf, he's going to be around that level when you get Sothe, and he gets tons and tons of experience from slaying those ravens on the boat, and he's actually not bad at that thanks to bows and having solid Hit. Quote: Using bonus experience on Rolf is obviously a waste, as you get nothing at all out of it except a ....thirtieth fighter that still sucks way more than everyone else. Rolf is a waste of a slot.... times...alot. Except...no. He has better offense than almost everyone after promotion. He has very impressive Crit, high Hit, high Atk Spd, and decent Atk. How is he sucking more? Ohnozsnipernoattackingbackatcloserange! This is why the people that make these games give you units like Gatrie and Oscar to frontline so that doesn't matter, and Rolf can camp behind them and rape things with his offense. Even at a few levels behind your team, his offense is on par with their's. And when I say on par with "their's," I actually do mean it's on par with the TOP TIER units. Unless these average charts on FEA are decieving me, that is... Quote: Of course they all won't be full without him. Except the ones who aren't full are the ones that suck massively and so won't be used anyway. Shinon- sucks. Rhys- sucks. Marcia- has better supporters. Mist- has several better supporters. Tauroneo- he's kinda meh, but he's decent enough that he might be used every now and then. Anyway, he joins way late, so it's not helping much in the first place, and then all the support does is give him durability anyway, which he doesn't much need since he's a general. A general with res, too. Yeah, he sucks. Good in the earlygame and not too bad later on if you use a Paladin Band on him. He's low tier, but around the top of it, and if he's being used Rolf can support him. Yeah, but are you always using all of them and will she always be full? Same. He's a good low tier, and definitely wants Rolf if he's fielded. At least Rolf gets a lategame support and Tauroneo can have some supports. The point I'm trying to make is that he has a lot of units that he can support. You'd have to not field them ever or field them AND all of their supporters to deprieve Rolf of supports. It's not happening. Quote: Gatrie? wtf, no. First of all, Gatrie sucks due to being a fighter that has bad offense and mobility, so he's not even getting used, and then the bonuses are worse (3 avo -> 5 avo >> 0 def -> 1 def), and then 3 move gap ftl. Gatrie will be in range even less than Sothe will. So it's an inferior support all around. Screw that; Astrid wants Sothe. Yes, we all know how much you hate Gatrie. He's still incapable of dying unless a horde of sages with thunder surround him, and he deals tons of damage with a single blow. He's much better than you give him credit for, since he can bait an entire army and come out taking no damage or only taking a few points of damage, and then he'll definitely kill whatever it is he's fighting on his turn. Remember that strategy you posted about Dorcas? Same thing, except Gatrie has infinite durability. Gatrie will be in range because he's a tank and frontlines well. He'll be seeing combat, like Astrid, while Sothe will not. If he's thieving, he's off somewhere. And he shouldn't even be on the effing battlefield ever. Battlefields are for people that can battle, not for people that can't do damage and get raped. If you're going to take a thief along for somethings, then it's going to be Volke, and you don't need another. Quote: and he's even more fragile than Sothe, so if durability is a concern, Reyson is definitely out. Sothe HP: 20 Evd: 27 Def: 4 Res: 0 Crit Evd: 5 Reyson(untransformed) HP: 22 Evd: 43(!!) Def: 2 Res: 20(!!) Crit Evd: 15 Not only does Reyson rape the shit out of him in Evd, but he takes magic blows like they are nothing. So, he's more durable even without transforming, and when he does transform, he's way more durable. Reyson is also god tier/top of high tier, so he's basically always fielded and he's amazing. Unlike Sothe, who sucks. Who's saying Tormod is even being used, anyways? He's even more underleveled than Rolf. Quote: After he promotes? Which is like ch 20-21. Oh wait, that was when he was somehow killing as much as other characters. So it's even later. No, he's still a sucky attacker. He'll be getting beaten by in atk by physical sword Mist after he promotes and getting raped by her in atk before then. He's awful. If Rolf is being fielded, he's going to promote much sooner than that unless you purposely neglect him. He gets a lot of EXP from killing and this game is pretty generous with that bonus experience, so he's not going to be promoting that yet. Spending the resources to promote him around when your other units normally promote is nowhere near as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. I've used Rolf plenty of times along with a normal full team, and nobody promoted later or failed to be at high levels later on, and Rolf promoted around Chapter 16/17 without issues. And when he's promoted, he's trashing a lot of units in offensive power. Mist with a Sword being better? Um. She starts at the same level as him in the same chapter, and has god-awful offensive power forever and ever unless she's using a Sonic Sword. If we want to baby her with a good weapon, then give Rolf a Killer Bow to make him god too. Quote: Rolf is shit without eating up your resources. Plain and simple. Sothe is not. He is of much use without ever using up anything. Rolf gets dominated utterly by dozens of other characters. Sothe almost doesn't even get beaten, and it's by only one other unit. He's not eating that much up, unless my game is special and gives extra experience or something. I don't see where these problems are coming from. False. Unless you neglect him and don't actually raise and train him, he's somewhere in the top 10 in the game for offense in the lategame, probably. Quote: No. Any negative is a detriment, no matter how small. Being the worst fighter in the game and having the poorest durability, along with wasting a unit slot, is a detriment. Sothe sucks more!
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