Viewing Single Post From: Hollie vs Sentenal

Viewing Single Post From: Hollie vs Sentenal
*Sentenal*	May 23 2007, 10:56 PM
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. Posts: 15,616 Group: FEFF Emperor Member #1 Joined: May 16, 2005	In my last post, I gave a comparision between Mia with a Steel Sword, and Tauroneo with a Steel Lance. And gave neither character supports. So, apparently, when I give them an even playing field, it is bias. I'm going to address supports now. Quote: Mia, in her perfect universe, would be getting A Rhys B Ilyana. Quote: Largo takes A Mia. First: I think you might not know this, but Mia can't have Rhys A, Largo A, and Ilyana B. You gave two paragraphs talking about he getting Rhys A, and Ilyana B. Then you give another paragraph where Largo wants to get Mia A? What the hell? Regardless of how messed up your entire support arguement is, you eventually came down to Rhys A and Largo B, and screwed Tauroneo with just Rolf B. Now what the hell are you doing using OTHER low tiers other than Mia and Tauroneo? This is a Low Tier debate. We are already making things hard on ourselves, by assuming the use of both Tauroneo and Mia.... Because otherwise we wouldn't have a debate. But now you want to assume the use of THREE other low tier units? Get Rolf, Largo, and Rhys the hell off my team. Now, with that in mind, you understand why I didn't give ether supports. Because... neither of them get supports realistically! Giving either of these units supports is like giving Niime Yodel and Sophia supports. Not gonna happen. So, there goes your support bonuses. Mia has to beat the German Juggernaut by her own merits now. Now, you also claimed bias from me giving both units a Steel Weapon. And, you thought it would be fair to give Mia a Killing Edge, and Tauroneo a Silver Lance. Anyway, to see how they are comparing with this more "fair" comparision, lets see how they do it in a realistic setting (as in, they don't get their nonexistant supports). Mia is doing 20+9=29 Atk, and against a 20 DEF enemy, that comes down to 9. And then, against the Lance Users of the endgame, WTD makes that come down to 8 per hit. Tauroneo is doing 25+15=40 Atk, and against 20 DEF enemies, that is 20 damage. Woah, I'm winning... Sorta. You still do have that Crit. So, now lets take this to the next step. You cited 40 HP as well. Well, Tauroneo kills these bastards in two hits. So he needs two rounds. Mia needs 5 hits, not counting Crit, to kill. So 3 rounds. But, Mia does have that crit, so she is Criting half the time. So, Mia hits for 8 damage, then Crits for 24. Then hits for 8 damage again, and the kill. So, they are killing at exactly the same speed (2 rounds), and Tauroneo requires less weapon uses! Hell, Tauroneo's 2HKO is guaranteed, while Mia requires critting! Quote: Firstly: I don’t care what you say about Tauro’s Spd being more likely to hit 14 than 15 (sounds hypocritical, I know). Chances of having 14 or less Spd = 42. Chances of having 15 = 32. Not to mention that he’s only 2% more likely to hit 15. We may as well go by the averages. Not only does Tauroneo average 15 SPD, but you are kinda confused. Tauroneo has a 42% chance of having 14 SPD or lower, true. But, if you look a bit above that, where it says "Chance of having X Spd at a given level", and look for level twenty, he has a 32% for 15, 19% for 16, 6% for 17, and 1% for 18. Time for some advanced Math. Take some notes. 32+19+6+1=58. So 58% chance of having 15 SPD or higher. 58>42. L2Math. Now, I'm gonna jump into defense. First, I'll take away both party's Supports, because they don't exist. Mia - 20/20 - Defence Killing Edge HP: 42 Def: 16 Res: 12 CEvd: 21 Evd: 75 (this was too high. 27x2+21=75, not 80) Tauroneo - 20/20 - Defence Silver Lance HP: 52 (you got this wrong, btw. bias?) Def: 26 Res: 16 CEvd: 15 (you got this wrong too, btw. bias?) Evd: 45 base (off by 3 points here. bad bad hollie) First, please... For the love of god, pay attention in math class. Seriously. I don't know if these were mistakes, or you falsifying stats to make Mia look better. And, know that with stats, you don't always round down. Supports do that, because the game just does. But these are calculations done by people, determining the most likely stat they will have on the level. If somone has 20.9 LUK, means they will most likely have 21 on that level. So, we have 10 points in DEF, and 4 in RES, against 30 in avoid. Seriously, why even bother? Tauroneo's DEF is beating the living crap out of Mia. And against lategame Lance users, that falls to only 20 more avoid than Tauroneo. Now, just a note on that. Tauroneo might as well have zero avoid, since he isn't dodging shit. 20-30 more avoid than shit is NOT good avoid. Thar, I think I just proved how great your avoid is. Now, lets just say something with like 35 Atk (just throwing a number out there. Silver Lance+20 STR) attacks Mia. Well, Mia is taking 20 damage from that, with WTD. She can take 2 more hits. That isn't good. Mia is kinda Fragile. Now, lets bring up another factor. What level will Mia be when Tauroneo joins? Mia has 15 chapters to grow, and starts at level 6. There are some factors here: One, Mia is low tier, and therefore sucks more than all the other units you could possibily use. So I don't want to give her my bonus EXP, that could be going to another, better unit. So, lets give her 1 level per chapter. That puts Mia at 20/1 when Tauroneo joins Poor Mia. Actually, with this in mind, it makes pretty much all your previous 20/20 arguements about Mia pretty much BS, because 20/20 Mia doesn't exist, and Tauroneo only needs 6 levels to get 20/20. What we got here, with Base Tauroneo vs 20/1 Mia? Rapage. Tauroneo, base: HP: 48 STR: 22 MAG: 11 SKL: 18 SPD: 13 DEF: 22 RES: 14 LUK: 14 Mia, 20/1: HP: 32 STR: 13.6 MAG: 6.2 SKL: 18.3 SPD: 21.8 DEF: 11.8 RES: 7.5 LUK: 12.3 Ouch ouch. Mia wins SKL (who cares?) and SPD. So you double attack, and Tauroneo doesn't. Tauroneo with a Steel Lance: 22+10=32 Atk. Mia with Steel Sword, since I'm not going to baby her with a superior weapon: 14+8=22 Atk. Now, since this isn't endgame, lets assume the enemies have 17 DEF or something. Mia is doing 5 damage twice. Tauroneo is doing 15 damage once. 15>10. Mia's 15% SM crit isn't saving her. And Tauroneo crushs her even worse in DEF here. So, not only is Mia not good enough to deserve any Bonus EXP, but she is a piece of crap next to Tauroneo when you get him. Since I don't want to be a complete ass, I'll get Resolve out of my system, rather than "lol last post" you. Resolve is a fuck ton better than Vantage. Maybe if Mia would OHKO shit, it would be better for her. But don't get me wrong, the skill itself isn't bad. It just doesn't do a whole lot to help Mia. Resolve makes STR SKL SPD 1.5x when Tauroneo is 50% or less in HP. So, at 20/20, here is what Tauroneo's STR SKL and SPD look like with Resolve: STR: 38 SKL: 32 SPD: 23 WTF those pwn. 23 SPD is pretty decent, and that 38 STR... h4x. With a Silver Lance, Tauroneo has 53 Atk. That is 32 damage against those enemies you cited. Tauroneo is fucking raping. Hell, he is OHKOing some of the weaker enemies. Just give him a Laguz Lance, and show me a Laguz other than a Dragon who can take a hit from him. Tauroneo can use tons of weapons, and therefore with the right one, can OHKO nearly everything. So, with Resolve, Tauroneo's Offense > Mia's. Now, Hollie's turn.


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