Viewing Single Post From: Yzarc vs Reikken

Viewing Single Post From: Yzarc vs Reikken
Reikken	Jun 12 2007, 05:38 PM
Posts: 1,838 Group: FEFFer Member #907 Joined: August 26, 2006	Yzarc Drowsnam Jun 9 2007, 10:46 PM I'm pretty sure it's in everyone's best interest to make the first few posts of this debate pretty short. Otherwise, it might get ridiculous. Hmm-hmmm. Quite. Quote: Devdan comes slightly higher leveled than your common unit. He comes at level 4 promoted and, about this time, every single one of your units should be promoted or at least level 19. So, let's compare a level 20/1 Nephenee to a level 4 Devdan. Whaaat, already promoted? More like level 16-17, if that. I mean, srsly. Let's look at Nephenee, and, say...Kieran. They both join before ch 11. Then there's 12, 13, 14, 15, and part of 16. That's 5 chapters and a part of another to level up in. And ch 15 you probably shouldn't be killing stuff since the bexp for doing that > the combat exp, and Kieran is worthless there anyway, so 4-5 chapters for him, 5 for Nephenee. Kieran joins at level 12, Nephenee joins at level 7. Kieran is at a normal level, so he gets a normal 4 lvs every 3 chapters. 1.33 levels per chapter. Nephenee is underleveled, so 1.75 per chapter for her. Though that drops off as she catches up.... So... Kieran reaches level 18 by the time Devdan is recruited. Nephenee reaches lv 15. Already promoted? I'm not seeing that at all. Nephenee would have had to be getting 14 levels in about 5 chapters. Wut? Now, re-doing the comparison at normal levels... Devdan wins hp by 9.6 str by 2.8 mag by 3.4 skl by 0.6 res by 5 lck by 8 Nephenee wins spd by 2.4 def by 0.8 So who's really winning? Devdan, easily. Devdan also has enough str to use Steel Lances with no AS loss, while if Nephenee uses one, she loses her spd lead. Offensively, against enemies that they both can double, Devdan does 6 more damage. Against enemies that neither can double, Devdan does 3 more damage. Against enemies that only Nephenee can double, he does 6 more damage per hit since she has to be using an Iron Lance, which helps offset her getting another hit. The enemy needs 11 or less def for Nephenee to be doing more damage. How many enemies can Nephenee double that Devdan can't? Well, comparing Devdan's spd to other characters, lv 18 Boyd also has 13 spd. Oscar and Kieran have about 14. The spd lead isn't that huge, and Devdan's spd is fairly average, so there's not too much that Nephenee doubles and Devdan doesn't. So Devdan wins offense. Defensively, Devdan has a clear win. 10 hp, 5 res, 8-3 avo, and 8 crit avo >>> 1 def. So Devdan is pretty good when he joins. Quote: Onto Largo. Perhaps one of the best offensive fighters in the game? Or, in fact, THE best? That's a difficult decision. The point here is this: Largo has a purpose on the battlefield. He rapes. Not only is he GOOD offensively but he is actually the BEST offensively in most situations. On to Largo indeed. Now, here's where you're mistaken. How could he be low tier if he had the best offense? The answer is that he doesn't have the best offense. He joins on level 7 when your other characters should be about level 13 or so, or level 18-19 if we're using the levels you used when comparing Devdan. Largo joins with 21 base atk, 20 AS, and axes. Level 13 Oscar has 21 base atk, 22 AS, and axes and lances. Largo even gets beaten by Oscar in offense (lances vs swords >> axes vs swords), and Oscar's offense is not his strong point. Best offense? Hardly. Now let's look at characters who are near the top in offense. lv 13 Kieran has 23 str + 1 from B Marcia = 24 base atk, and he also has both axes and lances and 22 AS. When is he passing that? He even has to catch up first. Boyd- 27 str + 4 from supports = 31 base atk, and he has 20-21 AS and axes. 31 base atk. 10 more than Largo. Largo's never touching that. What about vs someone that's not top tier? Say...Nephenee. lv 11 Nephenee = 19 str + 2 from supports = 21 base atk, and she has 25 AS. But lances have 1 les atk than axes. But they also don't have hit problem even when they have WTD, like axes do against swords. So Largo joins with as much offense as Nephenee? His offense isn't looking so h4x. Now, of course, he's going to level faster than others since he's underleveled, and he has a 70% str growth, but there's also only 5 chapters left in the game, so he doesn't have much time to grow, so a good portion of that is going to be spent with his growths having not taken much effect yet. Quote: But of course, Largo is sooo not durable. OH NO!! Largo can't survive on the battlefield. He only has 60 HP! Oh wait, 60 HP is fucking good. "Not when he doesn't have that much Defense." What if he rarely takes hits? What if he has an evasion percentage of 92.5 when fully supported to two units who WANT to support him? I would venture to guess, sir, that Largo is pretty durable. Largo does not join with 60 hp or supports for that 92 avo. Largo joins with 52 hp, 52 avo, 10 def, and 3 res. 52 hp is good, 52 avo is below average, 10 def is very bad, and 3 res is abysmal. Largo starts off with pretty horrible durability. He does have supports coming, but he has to get them first and go without them until they come. But this is Largo vs Devdan. How do they compare to each other? Well, Largo joins well below average with average offense and way below average defense, and Devdan joins even a bit above average, so just on that, Devdan is looking better. First, what about Devdan's supports? He has Nephenee and Tormod. Nephenee's other supports are with Brom and Calill. Brom would rather go Boyd and Zihark, and Boyd and Zihark want that, too. That leaves Devdan enough room for a B. For Tormod, Sothe isn't getting used, and Reyson gives the same bonuses but starts later, so it's worse for Tormod, and Reyson himself gets nothing out of it, so a support with Devdan is clearly better. That leaves Calill. With only one other support, it's just a competition for the A since Devdan is at least getting a B. Calill is probably going A Nephenee, and Tormod's Calill support comes later, and the difference between A Calill/B Devdan and B Calill/A Devdan is only 2 avoid vs 2 hit, so going A Devdan is just as good if not better anyway. A Tormod and B Nephenee finishes well before Largo joins. By the time Largo joins, Devdan's level lead will have shrunk, so he'll be maybe lv 15-16. 21 str + 4 from supports = 25 base atk and 20-21 AS with the Knight Ward. O snap, that's better than Largo. 44-45 hp, 59 avo, 16 def, 13 res, 20 critavo vs Largo's 52 hp, 52 avo, 10 def, and 3 res, 12 critavo 6 def and 10 res makes Devdan much more durable than Largo. So when Largo joins, Devdan is also better than him. Largo will be growing faster, but he doesn't have that much time to, and he has to catch up before he can surpass, and he hardly even has time to do that. So Devdan is better.
	NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi)

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