Viewing Single Post From: HJ and Hakado vs Hollie and Nick

Viewing Single Post From: HJ and Hakado vs Hollie and Nick
Nick	Jun 26 2007, 04:00 PM
Brit Posts: 6,491 Group: Judge Member #659 Joined: March 8, 2006	I'll do this before I forget about it. Quote: Garcia x Dozla vs Vanessa x Moulder? Wellz, one team is made of two god tier units, the other is made of a mid (or low, I forgot) tier unit, and a bottom tier unit... <3 I'll take it the order of those two was respective. Quote: Alright, soez, Moulder x Vanessa starts in chapter 2 and it's a 15+2 support. Dozla x Garcia will start in chapter 11.... well, not really. In Ghost Ship Dozla will join when there's little to no enemies left. In... whatever the Eirika-route chapter's called, it's pretty much the same thing. They only get, like, 1/4 of chapter 11. The support itself is 10+2. So, Moulder x Vanessa starts 9 chapters earlier and is faster. Win=Vanessa x Moulder Yeah . . . problem is, Vanessa's a flyer, and Moulder is a healer. Why is that a problem? Because Moulder has to stop next to every wounded unit, whilst Vanessa is meant to be off using the versatility of flying. In even supporting the two, you rob Vanessa of a large amount of her utility. Quote: Nao then, giving Vanessa and Moulder 8 turns per chapter (sometimes less, sometimes more, it evens out) they'll get their A during chapter 13. At this time, Dozla and Garcia will not even have a C yet. lol, so, our team is at it's best before your team is even formed... Roooooofl. Chapter 2 takes about 4 turns. Chapter 3 takes about 6 turns. Chapter 4 takes about 4 turns. Chapter 5 takes about 5 turns. Chapter 6 takes about 5 turns. Chapter 7 takes about 7 turns. Chapter 8 takes about 7 turns. Chapter 9 - either route - takes about 8 turns. Chapter 10 Eirika route takes about 7 turns, Ephraim route 10 turns (survive). Chapter 11 Eirika route takes about 6 turns, Ephraim route about 7 turns. Chapter 12 Eirika route takes about 7 turns, Ephraim route about 9 turns. Even assuming they took Ephraim's route and they were together for the WHOLE TIME OF EVERY CHAPTER, you would still be about 20 turns short. HJ, your idea is totally ridiculous, unless you are the worst tactician I've ever seen - these samples were taken from my game, and I'm not even very good at FE - what you said is totally invalid. Also, for aforementioned reasons, Moulder and Vanessa aren't going to be together for all that time. They'll be on like . . . a B at best during chapter 13. Garcia and Dozla's support starts much later, ya. However, they're easy as hell to keep together. They both fill very similar roles, and can obviously just fight alongside each other for maximum benefit. No utility at all lost there, which is more than can be said for Vanessa and Moulder. Point to Garcia/Dozla. Quote: Giving Garcia x Dozla 8 turns per chapter would result in them having their A support in chapter.... never, but that won't work. So I'll be nice and say they have their A support in chapter 18. This game has 21 (23 if you count the gaiden and Demon King fight. These have no relevance to our teams, though) chapters. Vanessa and Moulder are owning your ''team'' at least 18 chapters out of 21. Another win for Vanessa x Moulder Waitwait, you mean 'Vanessa x Moulder's support is faster' again, right? You're repeating yourself, but that's beside the point: just because Roy x Lilina will be there much quicker than, say, Dieck x Clarine, does that mean Roy and Lilina are 'owning' Dieck and Clarine? No. You're putting way too much importance on supports. Quote: Finally, before I'll stop ranting about the support, it is Anima x Anima. Full Atk, Def and Evd>you. . . . and I almost thought you wouldn't notice. What you have completely neglected to mention is that there are other supports for each character. I'll assume that this means you only want Moulder and Vanessa to be supporting, nobody else included. For my own team, I beg to differ. Garcia x Ross. Uberfast. It takes them 7 turns for a C. Oh snap, that means that you can have their C by the end of chapter 4. That's faster than Moulder and Vanessa by a long way. In WJC's words; 'By your own flawed logic, Garcia and Ross > your team'. As you pointed out, Garcia and Dozla will not be reaching an A. You then made some idiotic 'nice' claim to Garcia and Dozla that they could reach an A, but . . . it's just not happening. In trying to be nice, you made . . . a false point in our favour. Good going. Which is why Ross A Garcia B Dozla is what is going on with our earlygame fighter. As for Dozla, B Garcia, of course, and then . . . A L'Arachel. I can see a tantrum coming on from the anti-L'Arachel club, so plz, give me a reason not to use her. -Unlike a lot of healers, she doesn't get OHKO'd by the enemies in her joining situation. -She has excellent evasive stats and gets full defence from her A Dozla support. -She heals, which at the stage she arrives at is something only Moulder and Natasha (if you bothered levelling her) will be doing. -She has a horsie. -She's hot. -She's a bish <3 Go on, Hakado, tell me why I shouldn't. It can't be that hard. After all, L'Arachel is terrible, isn't she? For 3 marks, explain why she sucks. Until then, that'll do. Quote: Earlygame holds no real relevance, seeing as your team doesn't exist. Our team can both heal and fight, though, while yours doesn't even exist. Obviously a win for Vanessa x Moulder. Once again, I regret to say 'your logic is flawed', but it really is. What you say can basically be also used to say that Dorcas and Bartre > Erk and Pent because their support is there for half the game. As it is, Erk is there for like . . . almost the whole time Dorcas and Bartre are also there. What's more, he's better than the pair of them put together, so . . . your reasoning was, once again, incredibly faulted. Sorry. Garcia can fight, and is much less frail than Vanessa immediately owing to her poor HP and subsceptibility to axes that are common at that point. He has a support to boost his power, accuracy, critical and evasion before either Vanessa or Moulder. Quote: Midgame our team is still better. It can heal well, and it can fight well. Dozla and Garcia can only double weighed down enemies and shamans in chapter 15. So, since they can't double much, our team obviously stomps them in offensive abilities. Moulder also attacks Res, ftw. Defensively yours have neither a support, Spd, or h4x Luck/Def. Moulder has high Spd while his Vanessa (and Gilliam, for that matter) support is granting him full Avo. Vanessa has high Spd and good Luck, while getting full Avo from Moulder and Gilliam/Lute. We own you in defense as well, it seems. Dozla and Garcia can have a C by the time they get to the enemies in Scorched Sand. Part of 11, and then 12, 13, 14, and part of 15 > 25 turns. Ross A Garcia C Dozla C L'Arachel. Garcia has +3 power, +20 critical, +17 hit, +20 avoid and +2 crit ev. Dozla has +1 power, +1 def/res, +5 hit, +10 critical, +7 avoid and +5 crit ev. No support? HJ, please. Think. Oh, and NOW you bring Gilliam and Lute into it. But not Ross? So you're being unreasonably biased as WELL as generally wrong? Gawd. Quote: Moving on to the lategame, both Garcia and Dozla will still have doubling issues. A Wight in chapter 20 will have 11 AS, and Wights aren't exactly speedy. Garcia hasn't doubled none of the human enemies (except knights and massively weighed down enemies) you've faced in the previous chapters. This is especially obvious since I was a fuckup and gave Garcia his 20/20 Spd when comparing him to that Wight. >_> He didn't double it at 20/20. lol, so he clearly isn't doubling humans at non-20/20, mirite? Well, HJ, you've made a correct point for once. I can not deny, however much I want to, that you were indeed a fuckup. Anyhow, you're right, HJ, Garcia won't be doubling the Wight. Why not? Because he'll be OHKOing it instead. Sample melee wight: chapter 20 Eirika route. HP: 35 Spd: 11 Luk: 2 Def: 8 Res: 7 Equip: Steel Lance Steel Lance makes the Wight AS 7, so Garcia at level 20/09 (WJC's party average) would in fact be doubling him anyway. You won't be stinting your funds at this point: silver weapons are something people will be using. So, 20/09 Garcia, A Ross B Dozla, Silver Axe, vs Wight. 24 Str + 4 Support Str + 15 Mt +1 from WTA = 44mt. -8 from Wight's def = 36. Wight's HP = 35. OHKO'd even if he didn't DA it. To boot, he has 37 critical on this Wight (9 from skl + 5 from S axes + 25 from supports - 2 Luk). Nice comparison, HJ. Lulz. Quote: Dozla boasts an impressive 16 Spd at 20/20, though. So he did double that Wight. He'd also be doubling the Mogalls or whatever they're called. Floating eyes of doom. Garcia doubles these too, but they both have horrid Avo and Res. That wouldn't ever work out. Anyway, that was also a 20/20 comparasion (so yeah, same story as with Garcia, except worse. Since Dozla actually has a good Spd growth that helps him escape from his horrible base). . . . Dozla could've doubled that Wight at level 8. . . . a supported Garcia (Warrior) at 20/09 has 15 Res and 62 Avd. That's hardly . . . horrid. Hell, his resistance is GOOD. Another ridiculous claim. Quote: So yeah, our team wins offense again. Doubling ftw. We're also still better defensively. Dual-Full Def supports for both our team members, and dual-full Evd supports. Complimented by the nice Spd/Spd and Luck of Moulder and Vanessa. You should've phrased that better, HJ, because I almost thought you were calling Mouder's pathetic 6 Luk at 20/09 'nice'. Thankfully, I think you were referring to Vanessa. Hakado, try and do it a little better, won't you?
	jesus somebody get onto msn

HJ and Hakado vs Hollie and Nick · Debates