Viewing Single Post From: Jeigan vs Inui

Viewing Single Post From: Jeigan vs Inui
Big Boss	Jul 29 2007, 09:06 PM
Posts: 650 Group: FEFFer Member #890 Joined: August 19, 2006	Quote: Lulz, no. Lalum and Klein are available to support Percival and they don't suck like Cecilia does. Anima affinity bonuses? They're not good with Dark, so that doesn't matter. Lalum actually gives better bonuses since she gives full Crit. Lalum would only get B Percival seeing how Echidna offers full defense, is faster (starts earlier + higher friendship base) and Echidna and Lalum have similar movement. Klein is a unit with mediocre stats and a bad class, so he's not being used a lot. However, if he and Cecilia are being deployed, Percival would take the extra Atk from Cecilia over the extra Hit from Klein. Not to mention the Cecilia support is faster. Quote: Roy can also have a C with Lilina, Marcus, Sue, Thany, or Lalum. All of these units happen to be better than Cecilia and the Marcus and Thany supports start much earlier, and Lilina's is instant. Cecilia gives the best bonuses by a bit, but Roy having good bonuses for the whole game is better than having slightly better bonuses for a little over half of the game. And this is only a C we're talking about, anyways, so Roy will definitely snag one of these pplz before Cecilia exists. Later in your post, you mention Lilina is balls, so no need to counter that. Marcus gets outclassed and dropped from the team very early, so if I'm planning to use Cecilia, Roy's support with her would be in effect for more time than if he had supported Marcus, and Cecilia gives better bonuses. Lalum is already full because of Echidna and Percival, and Sue and Thany may not be used and the'r support with Roy grows at 1/+1 and they have Wind affinity. Eww... Quote: She joins in a desert chapter, so there goes that high mobility in her joining situation. Cecilia will be at a higher level than Garret when Garret joins, so even with that EXP bonus, she's not helping the Experience rank any more than he is. Her move is on par with the rest of your units, except magic users, so that's not a problem. Also, Clarine, your primary user, has less move here. Cecilia can reach wounded units with more ease Cecilia not helping the Exp. rank more than Garret? wtf? Cecilia would be like level 2 by the time Garret joins, so she's not gaining less exp than him. And Cecilia will reach a higher level by endgame because she can both heal and attack, and when healing, she's not taking experience away from other units, because usually there is more than 1 wounded unit. And then there are the staves like Physic, sleep, restore, etc. I don't know where you are getting this idea of Cecilia not being better for the experience rank. Also, since you were kind enough to mention Cecilia's joining situation, allow me to go into further detail: Cecilia. Level 1. 30 HP, 11 MAG, 30 Avo, 7 Def, 13 Res Clarine. Level 15/0. B Rutger, C Dieck. 20.6 HP, 6.2 Mag, 64.1 Avo, 5.4 Def, 12.6 Res- Saul. Level 15/0. 26 HP, 8 Mag, 32.5 Avo, 3.5 Def, 10 Res. Comparing Cecilia with the characters that could be your main healer. First thing to note is that Cecilia actually has offense. Then, we see that Cecilia heals for more HP than both of them, and Cecilia clearly beats Saul in durability. Against Clarine, durability is more debaetable. If Lugh is promoted, then he is healing for more HP than Cecilia, but Cecilia can afford some Mend staff uses since she didn't need a promo item, anyway. Overall, Cecilia's joining situation is looking very good. Quote: She targets RES? Yes, with her amazing 11 MAG base with a 35% growth, she'll surely be doing heavy damage! And her h4x base of 10 SPD with a 25% growth ensures constant doubling. Only beasts like Marcus and Zealot manage to be faster! Garret joins with way more Atk, a bit more SPD, and a massive Crit lead. He's doing much better in Combat, which is a rank actually hard to S in this game. Indeed, her class is better. Too bad her stats are so massively sucky that Garret is better anyways. Granted, she won't double at all. But since usually you aren't one rounding enemies, anyway, any damage she can deal is helping. Garret is doing better in combat against certai stuff, like some wyverns at his joining chapter, but when he has to fight sword wielding enemies and nomads, chances are he won't even hit. You overrate how much he is helping the combat rank. While Cecilia may not be better than Garret combatwise, she's helping the team in other ways (staves, exp rank.) Quote: Saul and Clarine have your staves covered for the early game, and they actually don't suck massively due to having SPD. When Cecilia joins, the likes of Lugh and Ray are nearing promotion, so then lower level staves can be handled by them while higher level staves by the other two. And super late in the game, you can even have Niime handle staves better than Cecilia does. Earlier in this post I mention how good Cecilia is when she joins, and there is always enough people damaged so having two healers is not by any means a bad idea. Furthermore, Lugh also has a combat role to fulfill, so he's not always healing. Niime? Pfff... that old thing is as fragile as toilet paper, and joins way later. Other units are better than Cecilia. So what? This is low tiers. If we were to apply this argument against Garret, well, we have Dieck, Lugh and a Cavalier promoted by the time he joins, beating him. If Lott is used, he would be promoted by now, would have some sexy support with Dieck and would be beating Garret as a primary axe user. Miledy would have gained some level ups and is starting to be h4x, and the all amazing Percival joins in chapter 15 as well. And guess what? These units actually don't suck massively due to having SPD. So yeah, this little argument of yours is hurting Garret more than it's hurting Cecilia. Quote: If you go to Sacae, Cecilia is even more obsolete due to being killed in a single phase by nomads and nomad troopers. Let's give her that C Roy, and be generous with a C Douglas since dragging Douglas into Sacae is usually a decent idea since he has nearly infinite durability and can do things like carry Roy around and such. Let's also give her a whole level every chapter even though she joins overleveled and sucks massively at fighting and is outclassed in healing by two other units that are at a lower level and will tend to get priority in staff usage. statz So it's going to double her even with the steel sword, and it has a very low chance of missing with either weapon. It might as well be a definite hit when he uses the bow. It does 24 damage with the bow and 30 damage with the sword, leaving her in a state of near death in just one turn. All's it takes now is a single little nomad to attack her, and she dies. And the Def/Res difference is only 3-5 in Sacae, while Garret's Atk lead is much larger than that. 20/8 is a good estimate level seeing how is always enough people to heal, she can attack every now and then and she is not outclassed as far as healing matters go. Note that Cecilia could have B Percival by now, giving her 1 Atk, 1 Def, 5 Hit, 10 Avo, 5 Crt and 10 Crt evade. Now, why in the world would you leave Cecilia, or any healer for that matter, open to enemy attacks? Unless you really screw with your formation, Cecilia should never get attacked. To help that, she has a horse, enabling her to do her healing job and then move to the back. Quote: Garret: 20/5 w/ C Gonzales(Iron/Killer/Hand) HP: 57.6 Atk: 30.3/33.3/29.3 Hit: 107.1/107.1/92.1 Crit: 43/73/43 Atk Spd: 12.2 Evd: 40.5 Crit Evd: 19.1 Def: 10.6 Res: 5.2 And you said Garret missed? There are situations where he's actually winning in Hit. He has more Def and almost double her HP, so unlike Cecilia, he's not easily dying in a single turn and can take hits. Even though Cecilia is attacking Res, Garret is outdamaging her by a lot. If he's fighting a sword user, he can use a swordreaver and easily rape it. On his turn, he can attack a nomad trooper with a killer axe and almost surely kill it. And Garret has the funds to do both. He doesn't need to be promoted and his weapon type is much cheaper than Cecilia's; in fact, Garret uses the cheapest weapon type. At 3 levels lower and with 1 less support, Garret is winning everywhere but Hit and Res constantly. After Sacae, Douglas is rendered worthless, and she's out a support, while Garret gains more supports. Garret will probably not catch up in levels due to the EXP bonus, but he won't be gaining less EXP because he's at a lower level. He's outperforming her even at a lower level. If you actually factor B Percival, and Cecilia's option of using Fire she's winning in hit. Also, with B Percival, Cecilia has as much Defense as Garret, lulz. Anyway, going by that Nomad sample you posted, if it has a bow, it deals 20.8 damage per round to Garret. Only 2 of them were needed to kill Cecilia. 3 are needed to kill Garret. That isn't a huge improvement, rly. In fact, I would say Cecilia survives better, because Garret actually has to be at the frontline to do his job, so he is much more likely to get attacked by these guys. Also, you have to explain me how 58 Hit and 64 means "he almost surely kills it (the Nomad Trooper)" Against sword users, he can go ahead and equip a swordreaver, but he loses the 30 Crt bonus from the killer axe, and gets doubled, so his chance of OHKOing is also mediocre at best. Quote: Which ranks? Garret actually kills, so he wins Combat. Garret uses a much cheaper weapon type, so he wins Funds. Garret kills things before they kill you and doesn't die himself, while Cecilia heals peoplez, so they might as well tie in Survival. Cecilia would win Tactics if she could actually use her high Mov without being raped, but she really can't, while Garret can move without instantly dying and can actually clear enemies away, so this is probably a tie. Combat? He misses half of the time, and when he hits, you have to rely on a critical to actually kill in one round. Funds? Since you seem to like to use Killer axes and Swordreavers constantly, he might as well be losing here. Survival? Garret is also really frail, and is more likely to get attacked, and doesn't heal ppls. So it's easy win for Cecilia here. As for Tactics, the act of healing is what helps, by having more healers your units receive constant treatment and can proceed faster, instead of having to wait another turn for your main healer to heal them.
	^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan

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