Viewing Single Post From: Sentenal vs Inui

Viewing Single Post From: Sentenal vs Inui
+Ema Skye	Aug 24 2007, 05:04 PM
Snackoos = <3. It's science! Posts: 20,960 Group: Advisor Member #40 Joined: June 9, 2005	Garret is like...1000% manly. Big guy with scars and axes and muscles. Douglas is a slow old dude with knightly honour and stuff. Garret eats villagers and takes their food and money. Then he meets Lilina and just starts eating Bern's soldiers instead. Quote: Now, when a unit is an offensive unit, like Garret, they need to be good at the one thing they are good at. Offense. However, Garret is slow as fuck. 14.7 SPD at 20/20? That kinda prevents him from being good at offense. He never doubles. Crap crap go to hell. Now, Douglas is lol slow as fuck, even slower! Douglas won't double anything. Douglas wouldn't double an old woman on her death bed. Hell, their SPD is so bad that they get doubled tons. Especially in Sacae... So, both units suck on Offense. Garret is better offensively, but who the hell cares if he is still beyond terrible at it? Huh? Garret left his hard mode bonus at home or something? Garret: Level 1 Berserker HP: 54.8 - 70% STR: 20.5 - 45% SKL: 15.5 - 25% SPD: 11.2 - 25% LUK: 13.5 - 15% DEF: 10.0 - 15% RES: 5.0 - 5% I'm getting 15.95 for his SPD average at 20/20, not 14.7... Garret HP: 60.0 STR: 29.05 SKL: 20.25 SPD: 15.95 LUK: 16.65 DEF: 12.85 RES: 5.95 Douglas HP: 53.2 STR: 22.6 SKL: 16.6 SPD: 11.6 LUK: 13.4 DEF: 23.6 RES: 5.6 So, Garret is stepping all over Douglas in everything besides DEF and he's winning RES slightly. Your arguements seemed to be heavily based on this DEF win and nothing else. Well, let's see if it really measures up to what Garret's wins do for him. Let's first look at the route that gives Douglas the best possible advantage, Sacae. This makes Douglas quite a tank for chapters 18, 19, 20, and 20x. He gets to be a decent tank for four chapters. However, these chapters are all large, and one of them has a turn limit to get the sidequest for Miugre. Douglas has the lowest MOV on the team. So, while he does make a decent tank, he's often left in the dust and using him as a tank will hurt your Tactics. Percival, Miledy, Alan, Lance, Clarine, Dieck, Rutger, Shin, Fir, Gonzales and several other units are in absolutely no danger of dying to a bunch of nomads, or even nomadic troopers, so what is Douglas even tanking for? These guys have more mobility, especially the ones with mounts, so they're going to leave him in the dust and tank against all of those nomads on their own. They're actually better tanks than Douglas, anyways, since they don't get doubled and have more durability against the Wyvern Lords and the magic users. Chapter 18: Sacae Garret: 20/5 w/ C Gonzales(Iron/Killer/Hand) HP: 57.6 Atk: 30.3/33.3/29.3 Hit: 107.1/107.1/92.1 Crit: 43/73/43 Atk Spd: 12.2 Evd: 40.5 Crit Evd: 19.1 Def: 10.6 Res: 5.2 Average Nomad Trooper(Bow/Sword) HP: 43 Atk: 21/24 Hit: 119/109 Crit: 18/8 Atk Spd: 20/18 Evd: 49 Crit Evade: 9 Def: 12 Res: 7 Garret has ~64.75 Real Hit on the most evasive enemy in chapter. Against normal Nomads, which are significantly more abundant, his Real Hit goes up to ~70. He has 73 Crit with the Killer Axe. He's not killing that reliably, but he's far more reliable than Douglas at it. Douglas has less Hit, way less Atk, and significantly less Crit. Offensively, Douglas has absolutely nothing. Even Zealot and Marcus will have more offense(Killing Edges + supports + actual Hit ftw). How's that durability win for Douglas doing? Douglas: 20/10 HP: 47.2 Evd: 28.6 Crit Evd: 11.4 Def: 20.6 Res: 5.1 If Douglas is using a Javelin, the NT will attack with the short bow and do 0.4 damage. Wooo~ Douglas is indeed tanking it up. The NT has a stellar 6.6 Crit! Yeah, you're right that he's not dying to the bow users. If Douglas is using a Hand Axe, the NT will swap to his Steel Sword, and then Douglas is actually damaged. 4.4 x 2 damage. Still not in danger of dying any time soon. Douglas is indeed living well in Sacae. Except against those Shamans or something. Those guys would kill him if they both attacked him on the same turn. And the Wyvern Lord doubles him and has a Silver Lance. However, there are several problems with this. 1. Most of your units, specifically the ones I listed, are already living very well anyways. Even supported Lalum and Echidna don't worry about those nomads, and other low tiers like Bors and Barth are fine. 2. The problem in Sacae isn't living. It's killing. Sacae rapes your Combat rank. Every time Douglas is attacked, he's just getting attacked. He has 32.9 base Hit, and all of the Nomads and NTs have more base Evd than that. Then he's left with those ranged weapons if he even wants to counter them all, and those have like 50 Hit. Douglas's chances of missing are higher than his chances of hitting by a lot since the two RN system is now working against him. Less than 50 displayed Hit ftl. Garret has to use a Hand Axe to counter them, but Hand Axe!Garret still has more Hit than Javelin!Douglas. 3. Three of the four maps are big and nothing but open plains. Douglas's craptastic mobility will force him to stay on the backlines ofter, which defeats his entire purpose of existance. Since your team isn't in danger of dying, they don't even need to wait for him. So, yeah, Douglas is sucking massively even in the four best chapters for him. Quote: Now, we have established the fact that Douglas is almost invulnerable in Sacae, and Garret is far from it. Now, you also have this unpromoted Lord named Roy. In Sacae, he is gonna get picked on by those nasty nomads. They probably are gonna double poor Roy. Enter Douglas. Douglas rescues Roy. Douglas walks through Sacae unharmed, and drops Roy safely at the thone, to capture the throne. I think I'd much rather have a mobile tank take care of this task. Alan and Lance support him. Miledy and Percival are invincible. Any of them could carry him without dying, and do it much better. Even with the SKL and SPD cuts, all of these guys would be basically invincible like Douglas(the difference is that Douglas has 110% durability vs their 100% durability, which doesn't matter), but they'd have more mobility and offense than Douglas. Douglas has no task that he's good for. Quote: Garret goes into Sacae, and Garret dies. His durability is bad in Sacae, but he's not just falling over and dying. He has tons of HP to prevent that from happening. In Ilia, he's got nothing to worry about. The Pegasus Knights all have Steel Lances and Javelins and can't DA Garret due to their terrible CON, and Garret has axes, so he's almost never even getting hit. And when he attacks them, their terrible CON makes their durability doodoo as well. Garret can double the ones with Steel Lances, and they don't have enough Evd to dodge. Garret also has WTA. And he still has that monster Crit on his side when he can't DA, like against the FalcoKnights. Ilia also has lots of forests, and those hurt Douglas's movement even more. So, we have Douglas, a guy that can tank for a few chapters, and Garret, a unit that actually can kill things. Tactics: Garret has more movement and actually kills things so your army can make progress. Combat: Douglas can't kill. Garret can. Experience: Both join overleveled, but Garret's level is consistently lower, meaning he's gaining more EXP for your Experience rank. Funds: Both are pretty damn cheap thanks to being prepromoted and using cheaper weapon types. Survival: Douglas himself doesn't die, and that's about it. He's not saving anyone else. Using Douglas rapes your Combat, Tactics, and Experience ranks, while Garret can actually do some good for Combat, doesn't kill your Experience, and doesn't kill your Tactics. Douglas is a detriment to three ranks while Garret is a detriment to none and possibly a boon to one of them.
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