Viewing Single Post From: Mekkah vs Sentenal

Viewing Single Post From: Mekkah vs Sentenal
*Sentenal*	Sep 16 2007, 01:22 PM
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. Posts: 15,616 Group: FEFF Emperor Member #1 Joined: May 16, 2005	Quote: I agree almost completely, except Beowulf will also be fighting his friends for a level. I wouldn't worry much about Holyn's level lead here - Beowulf will be hitting the arena pretty soon too and throughout the rest of the game be drawing first blood all the time to compensate. Well, I'd have to take issue just a little bit here. Beowulf will probably get a level from his friends, granted. However, with the arena, Beowulf isn't strong enough to run all the way through it. Maybe the first 3 or 4 stages in the arena, for an additional level. Regardless, that would still be a 5 or 6 level lead for Holyn. Quote: If Holyn's offense is insane, Beowulf's isn't shabby either. He catches up to Holyn at Str thanks to his higher growth - before promotion Beowulf even wins until the promotion bonus puts Holyn in a 2 str lead. About the speed issue, here's the list of Chapter 2 enemies Holyn can double with his 12 AS (Iron Blade) that Beowulf can't with 8 (Steel Sword): - Fury - Troubadours in Zyne's army Oh, and Beowulf cannot double himself obviously. The Troubadours are really, really insignificant, especially given Beowulf has had the time to level up some more by now (he needs 2 or 3 level-ups on average to get the 9 treshold and double them). FE4 is basically a big fest of low speed enemies - people say FE7 enemies are slow and those don't even have negative AS. Holyn doesn't double significantly more than Beowulf. By the time you face somewhat fast enemies (Chapter 4 Wind Mages) Beowulf will be promoted and have closed in on Holyn (+6 vs +2 promotion bonus), with enough AS to double even the fastest Wind Mages. Well, it is SPD+STR+Moonlight hit. However, I'll comment a bit on the AS issue. According to the unit samples you posted here, those Free Knights that Beowulf comes with have an AS of 5. Beowulf has an AS of 8 with a steel sword, so he won't double them. Voltz, the level 20 Free Knight there apparenltly has 12 AS, enough to double Beowulf! Holyn doubles all but that level 20 one, but is mere levels from being able to do it. Then at McKeily, Beowulf doesn't double the Swordfighters, Holyn does. Beowulf has to be at like, level 12 to double the bowfighters. After you take Anphony, the Cavaliers/Paladin group that charges you has Cavaliers with 6 AS, saying that Beowulf needs to be at level 16ish to double them. I don't think that is all very likely. No chance in doubling that Paladin, either. Holyn doubles them all. So, Beowulf will be having doubling issues here. Holyn won't. Add that onto Moonlight hit, and Holyn is clearly superior in offense. Quote: Beowulf is sturdy enough to take even another hit of combat most of the time, and unlike Holyn he can retreat and get a heal before the enemies target him because of low HP. Charge will trigger most often against enemies with axes which can hardly hit Beowulf anyway. And while we're on the subject of skills, Beowulf also gets Continue upon promotion (unlike Holyn who gets nothing), and with his 17 (or 14 with a blade) AS he will be triggering that 37% or 34% out of every single of his hits as well. Pursuit/Continue/Charge is the same skill set Jamka employs so succesfully, and in the hands of Beowulf it is quite deadly as well. Beowulf taking an extra hit in a turn is not a good thing. Yes, it is good that Beowulf is able to get an extra hit in. But that gets counter balanced by the fact that he is eating another counter. I'd also like to note that common enemies bosses are things with lots of DEF, on castles, making the activation of Moonlight hit very valuable vs them. Quote: He's winning by 6HP and 2DEF at L16 while Beowulf is at his base level. And by about 13 avoid, which isn't much at all. Especially when you take into account that Beowulf is gaining more experience per kill. Experience from defeating enemy = 30 + ( (enemy level - unit level) x 2 ) So if Beowulf kills, for example, one of these L8 Firemages from McKeily, he gains 28 EXP, whereas Holyn gets only 14, assuming the level you estimated Holyn at. Beowulf will be catching up in level, due to Holyn being so much higher than Beowulf. Is it expected that an underleveled unit will preform worse than a higher leveled unit? Yes. Is that any excuse? Not really. Quote: The vast majority of your units (except Lachesis, maybe Jamka and (heh) Holyn) have had two arenas to exploit by now, plus the gold you get at the beginning of every chapter for keeping your castles in one piece. There is also a gazillion villages near where Beowulf is recruited. You have cash coming out of your ears. The cash you hand over to Beowulf gives him some starting money for repairing and stuff, which as you said, he cannot do as well as Holyn. At least not until he's promoted and gains Continue and a bunch of Spd and Skl, at which point I'd say Beowulf is about as good if not better than Holyn at arenawhoring. Point taken about the cash. Holyn is gonna promote long before Beowulf, though, since Holyn handles the Arena better. Holyn probably promotes in chapter 3. Holyn is bound to get another level, maybe 2 after you recruit Beowulf, and then 2 from the Arena. So Holyn is going to be promoting early in chapter 3, furthering his leads on Beowulf. So while Beowulf will eventually be able to equal Holyn in arena whoring, it won't be for a while. Quote: The stat gap is relatively small and almost invisible in the endgame of Generation 1. But being mounted makes or breaks a unit - 2 extra movement before and 3 after promoting means a lot when you got a tactics rating to fulfill and villages to save. Beowulf can always be in the heat of the action with his mounted friends, Holyn only gets to kill whatever they leave alive. The stat gap is small endgame of Generation 1. Before then, Holyn has a clear statistical advantage. And about Beowulf's raw movement lead. Beowulf is also mounted, and therefore gets the movement penalites of a mounted unit. Chapter 4 (whichever is the Silesia one), there are lots of forests around, butchering Beowulf's MOV. Then in chapter 5, there is alot of Desert there, again butchering Beowulf's MOV. So Beowulf's MOV advantage is there, but its not like that doesn't have its own drawbacks.


Mekkah vs Sentenal · Debates