Viewing Single Post From: Paperblade vs Mekkah

Viewing Single Post From: Paperblade vs Mekkah
Paperblade	Sep 28 2007, 02:03 AM
Posts: 76 Group: FEFFer Member #1,424 Joined: August 10, 2007	Quote: Not boring at all. Finally some JUSTICE in this world. Oh? Quote: Only Fin is also a horrible drag in these chapters because he can't frontline worth shit there with constant WTD and not being able to double the bow users. When Beowulf joins the whole team is beating up Fin in the locker room for being a pain to baby. The only thing that keeps him from being picked on all the time is because Cuan sticks up for him slips him that Hero Lance, but that's pretty far in. Cuan also does double - 20% of the time, in fact, he is one-rounding enemies. Fin is never one-rounding them here. Azel is also doing more damage than Fin earlygame. Azel has 3 less Move and no durability. They're beating him up, not Fin. Cuan's doubling is ridiculously unreliable. Anyway. Existing > Not Existing. It's not like Beo does much better in 4-5. Quote: Yes, after endless times of babying and not helping, since he needs some protection and enemies set up for him to kill. But ok. What, Fin's not one rounding in Prologue and 1? Damn... that sounds like... Everyone who isn't Sigurd, Ayra, and Jamka. 2 of which are Top Tier. And one of which is only in like the last quarter of 1. Oh noes. Quote: L13 Fin has a grand total of 1 AS. Beowulf comes with 8 AS. Difference in avoid when Fin has it and Beowulf does not: 6. I'm wetting my pants. Fin's not one-rounding the Augusty cavaliers either btw. However, Beowulf's not-one-roundingness is nothing compared to Fin's suckitude in the first few chapters. If Fin's allowed to get 1200 EXP in two chapters where most enemies hit him quite hard and quite easily, I'd say it's quite acceptable if Beowulf gets to hop along. Beo's AS advantage hardly matters when he has lower concrete durability anyway and his doubling advantage over the few units who are slower than Beo but faster than Fin isn't enough to put him ahead because Fin's Attack is so much higher and he has a 100% Continue, which >>>>> Duel. So 2 enemies, neither of which are very common and that Beowolf is going to be worse off against ANYWAY, because if Beowolf is able to kill it in one round, Fin's doing it too and doing it better because of higher attack and getting his 2 attacks off without a counter, are unable to be one rounded by Fin. Meanwhile, Beo is using weak Swords against a bunch of high Defense enemies that he's hardly hurting at all. At least when Fin was sucking he hurt enemies, Beo's just being a pain. Also, Fin gets last hits because it's stupid to have him attack and eat a counter and then have say, Mideel attack to finish the enemy off, especially since Fin effects the Second Generation far more than anyone who isn't going to have a Child will. Quote: While you can say that this doesn't effect the First Gen and is thus unimportant, that's like saying Pairings don't matter because the "approved pairings" don't effect the First Gen (which would mean you'd be more likely to pair a unit with someone within their own move range to get the +10 Hit/Avoid for the First Gen... for example, Ayra with Holyn instead of Lex, because Ayra and Holyn are more likely to be near each other for the Avoid boost). The same goes for the +1 Defense village, but it's not as important to Fin. No, because +10 Avoid for ~2 chapters is outweighed by an easier EXP Rank because of Lakche and Skasaha leveling faster from Elite. +3 Strength is going to go nearly unnoticed in the First Gen, whereas it keeps Fin from being completely useless because of the Children in the Second Gen. It's not Lex/Ayra is difficult to get at all, their convo in 3 gives a massive boost, and Lex should be hanging back anyway once he gets to 30 as to not steal EXP. Quote: No, Fin can have the damn villages for half a chapter this gen (which is what we're debating about). However, he should hand in his Hero Lance when he's near a pawn shop anyway. Why? Because I'd like to have it during Chapter 4 and 5 and I'd like to pass it on to Fee for Chapter 6 as well rather than wait until Fin is finally visiting the Pawn Shop in Chapter 7. Therefore, Fin is using a Steel Lance at best, which gives him 1 more Mt but no Continue. I'd personally give it to Fury ASAP simply because she needs it more at this point. You can't wait until the end of the chapter because Fin leaves before you get to arena/shop/etc in Ch4, after all. There's no reason for Fin to hand in the Hero Lance quickly, because no one else is using it as effectively as him. Fury's Strength sucks so she's not going to be one rounding some enemies even WITH it, Noish lacks Pursuit and can't use it until promotion, same with Alec but he has Pursuit. Sigurd and Cuan have better weapons to use. I could understand Warping/Returning him to a Castle like halfway through Orgahill because Sigurd has to run from Silvail over to Orgahill, but there's no reason for him to sell it as soon as Chapter 3 begins. Quote: The only thing that makes Fin "win" is that Hero Lance which he won't have for much longer at all. Other than that Beowulf is pretty on par with Fin if not winning. I gave Beowolf a much larger level advantage than he'd ever realistically have. Normally, Beo'd probably be sitting around 14-15 crying because Fin's kicking ass and taking names and he's hoping that Fin saves some for him (Of course, the only thing Fin leaves behind are the Magic Users that take off half of Beo's HP anyway). He's not gaining 10 levels in one chapter, especially considering how mediocre he is at combat. He's likely going to be around 15, which swings things considerably in Fin's favor, since the attack defense lead becomes more prominent and the avoid lead has shrunk. And again, there's no reason for Fin not to use the Hero Lance. He's the best wielder of it, simple as that. Quote: Prayer lasts for one freaking turn - the turn it's activated. If you don't heal Fin, he's dead. If you heal Fin, it will most likely be with Ethlin, who will not heal him fully. Why Ethlin? Because Ethlin wants to get a little more leveling before she leaves, and your other healers still have other chapters to cap their level. I fail to understand why you'd heal him and then not move anyone to let him die, or why you'd not heal with ANOTHER healer, since Ethlin ain't gonna get bonus EXP for not healing... Quote: And then Fin is cockblocking the pirates on the bridge with his gazillion avoid, and not one-rounding them since his Hero Lance is gone. It's a far better idea to let Fin use the Hero Lance to clear out Orgahill (or at least the bridge area). It's not like anyone else wants it right now... Hm, 12 Weight Lance or 3 Weight Sword against Axe Users? I think I'll take the -24 Avoid and -20 more from WTD over the -6 and +20 from WTA. Only that's stupid, you're losing 58 Avoid by using the Hero Lance over a sword here. Fin can't use anything else, there's no reason for him to not be using it now. Quote: Beowulf, however, has great avoid against them regardless of Prayer. The most accurate ones would have about 37%~, Hand Axe ones even below that. Beowulf is activating Duel like 40% of the time (11 AS - -8 for dumb pirate AS makes 19, then we add 24 for Beowulf's max HP/2), so he can actually one-round them. He's not dying because of Duel though because it can't trigger below 25 HP. 100% Continue and Prayer >>> 40% Duel + ~35% Continue Quote: If Fin is attacked by a random pirate or two first, then by Pizarl (who gets to him quickly thanks to his Leg Ring), he's going to take 25 damage and not going to avoid it. Which risks him actually dying. Beowulf is not dependant on Prayer to survive, Beowulf wins. Pizarl moves last, so the only way this would happen is if there were already only a couple Pirates left, in which case why the hell is the test of their battle prowess a comparison of them versus Fin at his worst point in the entire First Gen? Let's throw Beo against those 4 Lance Knights and that General to the east of Agusty in Chapter 3 and see how well he fares. Fin's cockblocking enemies he sucks against, Beo's just dying. Quote: First off, Beowulf is helping the team at this point. Fin is running away with his tail between his legs. When Beowulf wasn't there, Fin was being babied. Fuck yeah Beowulf. Yes, gogo 1 Res unit with mediocre Avoid against the army of Elwind users. Quote: The Pegasi are going to get a taste of Beowulf's Wing Clipper. Beowulf is doubling them as long as they use their Slim Lances (which they will), and they won't be living through two consecutive auto-criticals. He can have a shot at the Wind Mages as well - by now he has Continue and a 37% chance of activating it, and even if he doesn't Continue he can still dodge Elwind in forest or town squares. Why does Beo deserve the Wing Clipper over the myriad of other Sword Users? Fin was competing against like, one person for the Hero Lance and he was clearly better with it because he one rounded, liek, everything with it (probably most bosses too, but Big Shield is haet). Beo is competing against like... a third of your army. Against people that really want it too. Like Alec. And Noish. Alec needs some love, man. And Wind Mages have like... 45 Hit against him even on Forest. That's not very good odds. Quote: Promoted Beowulf can use blade weapons which give him 32, 36 or even 40 attack depending on what you want to give him. He still has at least 108 hit with them because of his insane +9 Skl promotion bonus, enough to hit these pirates with like 10 evasion on town squares. He does 21, 25 or 29 damage per hit, always double making that 42, 50 or 54. Wait, wait, wait. Beowolf, the accurate, swift, mounted Sword User with the highest might Swords available is one rounding the almighty Pirates and their amazing -5 AS? You just totally blew my mind, dude. Quote: If Beowulf is L21 or L22 he has 20 Str, meaning he will one-round these pirates with the Silver Blade (they have 55HP). Not that he really needs to, because 34% of the time on each of his hits he can also Continue, and then afterwards there is also a 40% chance of activating Duel. That's a 39.6% chance that neither activate, and then there's the chance that somebody else wants the Silver Blade because Beowolf doesn't have a monopoly on Swords. Quote: The axefighters that chase the civilians have less HP than these pirates but the same Def and AS, so Beowulf is doing even better against them. We don't care about axe users. We already know he's good against them. It'd be like me going "Hai Mekkah, did you know that Fin one rounds the 40HP 10 Defense Sword Users without even getting attacked? AWESOMESAUCE FIN>BEO" That's all totally true, but it's irrelevant. Unmounted Axers are like the crappiest enemies in the game. Axefighters are like Swordfighters, only with no Pursuit and like 15 less AS, which sucks, because the only reason Swordfighters don't suck is because lots of people have trouble doubling them. Quote: He can teach them the meaning of the word pain while someone who needs some leveling can take the civilians. There's a grand total of 15 Axe users in this chapter. Pamela's Pegasus Squad has 12 Pegasus Knights, +1 for her. That's 13 Lance using units right there that, most of which are going to be hitting because of either Slim Lance hit hax, or not being countered and thus being annoying as hell. Quote: The Warriors that guard Zaxon have the same HP and 3 more Def in addition to 3 more AS, very small differences and still very liable to getting one-rounded by any of Beowulf's skills. He can one-round the Wind Mages in this group as well. He's one rounding the weakest Wind Mages that we care about (the other is some Blizzard user that only Fury is going to be getting to without taking like 20 turns of running through the Mountains), and taking a nasty counter along with it because his Res Sucks. Quote: Beowulf doubles each and every one of the swordchick army with a usual sword, and with a Blade he doubles all but Lamia (the boss). They have lower defensive parameters than the pirates (52/11) especially the Thunder Mages who only have 3 Def. They also have +20 Hit/Avoid from Lamia and 22 natural Avoid, for 44 Avoid against Beo's amazing 110 or so. 66 Hit. That's a 43% chance of missing once. With Continue and Duel his chances of not failing increases, but it's still hardly reliable, since he's relying on several unreliable variables in hopes that at least one doesn't mess up completely. Never mind the Sleep Sword. Thunder Mages have like 130 Hit and like 25 attack. Beo's being hit hard by them. If Beo gets hit once, Lamia could one round him since she's doubling (unless he's already 25+, unlikely) and has Continue. Quote: The only things Beowulf has a bit of trouble with in this chapter are the bosses, but those are the same things Fin couldn't conquer in Ch2 and Ch3. And Beowulf still can do his part of weakening them because he can use the Clipper against the Pegasi ones and the Cutter against the armoured ones. Fin only struggled because of Big Shield (and not wanting to eat a Knight Killer from Zain, that thing is enough to send any mounted unit running back). Even with it, he's easily two rounding pretty easily because of x4 attacks against most bosses and the pitiful defense of those he isn't (Clement). Quote: Beowulf is ruling in Chapter 4 and Fin is just not there. More like Beo is stealing everyone's swords just so he can be mediocre. At least Fin didn't hog all the Lances, he just wanted 1 of them that no one but Fury even wanted, and Fury sucks anyway. Beo's like, "Hay, even though we have like 6 other Sword users here, I'm gonna call dibs on this Wing Clipper and Silver Claymore, kthx. STEALS" while Fin is getting his Hero Lance stolen by that slut on a pegasus because Lances are more effective than Swords against axe users. Quote: Yes, Beowulf can use the Cutter to (heh) cut them up. Between two guaranteed criticals via Pursuit, a 36% chance for Continue (assuming 22 Spd (17 AS) at around L25 or L26) and then almost 50% chance of activating Charge, these guys will struggle to live for even one round. He's capable of fucking up the Thunder Mages in one round as well. So. Out of Alec Beowolf Fury Holyn Lachesis Noish (Plus Ardan and Dew, but they suck) Beowolf has the Silver Claymore, Wing Clipper, AND the Iron Cutter for 2+ chapters? And you say I'm babying Fin? lolwut? Quote: Beowulf can play his part in fighting Reptor's army and you're not going to lose any turns for tactics, since Sigurd has to cross the desert as well and they have the same movement. Except when he gets OHKO'd by Thorhammer and you're like "Shit, dammit Beo, why couldn't you be like Fin and have left Sigurd to solo this?" Quote: The Fire Mages can be one-shotted with Fury who can get there with Sylvia's help without anyone having to take their hits, and all Firemages sway to your side when you provoke Reptor's army anyway. Which totally compensates for his amazing 2 move in the sand/desert. Quote: The wyverns are hardly an issue since they can be distracted so easily by someone guarding Phinora castle. Heck, if I want to I can let Beowulf stay there, guard it while holding a Wing Clipper and dodge every wyvern that attempts to hit him while battering them back with autocrits. Solo Beowolf vs. 13 Dragon Riders with Knight Killers, plus a Dragon Knight with 3 leadership stars a Hero Lance. Beo has 43 Avoid, to 73 from Phinora, to 53 from WTD. The Knight Killer has 60 Hit. +24 hit from Skill. 31 Hit. What's that, and he's being 2HKO'd? And this is assuming that the boss isn't in range to give Leadership? He has a 0.8% chance of dodging every attack. His chance of dodging just 12 in a row is 1.1%. By the way, the Hero Lance dude has 79 Hit on him and 2 hits is about as strong as a Knight Killer attack. Quote: Thor Hammer is hardly an argument - there's very few units in your army who can take a hit, live to tell the tale and actually damage Reptor. You'll take care of him with Sigurd and Levin while Beowulf doubles everything else in that army, can 'Cutter anything armored and retreat a bit after hitting something thanks to his mount. Or I can just let Levin solo it all and not have to worry about stuff like "Is Beo gonna get raped by Thorhammer?" Quote: Getting hit by something is hardly a problem since you have Reserve by now as well as quite a few other healers and of course Sylvia. Unless you get OHKO'd. By Thorhammer. Because you were stupid and brought your amazing 5 Res Forest Knight to fight Reptor. Quote: He has two multi-hit skills and gets a third after promoting, and can use Iron Cutter + Wing Clipper for autocrits. Fun fact: Beowulf has more Str than Fin. Fin's weapons are much stronger, 100% Continue > unreliable Continue + Duel. Beo's hogging all the swords. Fun Fact: Iron Lance > Steel Sword in Might. By 2. And Fin is using Hero. Which has auto-Continue. GG? Quote: He's got WTA quite often in Chapter 5 and a few times in Chapter 4 too. He also has a slight avoid lead when neither has WTA, and Beowulf doesn't get doubled by swordies. The number of lance users FAR exceeds the number of Axe Users, and the Lancers are far more mobile and are more likely to get Leadership. In Chapter 5 he's forced to use the ONLY IRON CUTTER to be good, and in doing so makes several other units with less weapon choice useless. Quote: Just when he uses Hero Lance all the time, but that is effectively during one chapter (half of chapter 2, half of chapter 3). Before that he has okay offense but a combination of bad concrete defenses and bad avoid. I like how you make it sound like Fin relying on the Hero Lance is a bad thing while Beo is using it for 2+ chapters while also using the Silver Claymore. PROTIP: Needing 3 one of a kind weapons to have a good offense is not good. Also. Prologue: Fin sucks at durability but is great at offense. Beo doesn't exist. Chapter 1: Fin sucks less at durability and got even better at offense. Beo still doesn't exist. Chapter 2: Fin's durability is now getting awesome and his offense becomes godly because of the Hero Lance, which only Fury wants, but Fury sucks because her Strength blows (one great unit and one below average one >>> 2 slightly above average ones). Beo joins but is pretty crappy because his Attack is low and his skills unreliable. Chapter 3: Fin continues to kick ass and Beo continues to be an unreliable bum using a Steel Sword against Lance users. Chapter 4: Fin doesn't exist, Beowolf needs to hog three great swords to make his offense reliable. Chapter 5: See Chapter 4. So Beo is totally reliant on his weapon, whereas Fin is still good with just the Steel Lance. Hero Lance Fin one rounds or brutally maims everything. Beo is gonna be bad if he has the wrong weapon out. Quote: For FE4 standards Fin's stats aren't broken at all. First Gen. I said First Gen. Quote: Fin is "manly"? I quote from the conversation he has with Cuan in Ch1: "I'll go wherever you'll have me". He is manly in the wrong way. Way to take things out of context. We call that loyalty, something that Beowolf obviously lacks. Quote: Beowulf was just being a player with Lachesis really, but he knew all along the little slut was cheating on him with Elthsan. However, since Beowulf has a kind heart, he saved her by telling her to flee to Fin.Not for Lachesis, but for her kids. Lachesis dies in the Yied desert, but the childs live on. If it weren't for Beowulf, they all would have died at the hands of Alvis the dastard. Let me reword this. Beowolf gets 0 woman (not paired) or 1 (paired). Fin gets 1 woman (not paired or paired with Lachesis) or 2 (paired with someone who isn't Lachesis, as Fin/Lachesis is canon, it's just now he might have some other kids running around fighting resurrected dark gods). 2 > 1 1 = 1 1 > 0 Fin either wins or ties no matter how you slice it. We don't know how many random women they were with off screen, but on screen Fin is clearly kicking Beo's ass. Quote: No. Beowulf > Fin. I doubt that.


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