Viewing Single Post From: Paperblade vs Mekkah

Viewing Single Post From: Paperblade vs Mekkah
Paperblade	Oct 3 2007, 11:08 PM
Posts: 76 Group: FEFFer Member #1,424 Joined: August 10, 2007	Quote: Yeah. k. Quote: Azel still has more offense than Fin which was my point. Cuan is still one-rounding more than Fin - 20% of the time as opposed to not at all. Beowulf does great in chapter 4 and 5, at least he is helping more than Fin is helping in prologue and 1, because he has options to make him good whereas Fin is being babied. Fin's not being babied. Sure, he does shitty in Chapter 1, but Beowolf does shitty in Chapter 2, so it's even. In fact, Fin is the least babied unit in the entire First Gen. Why? He comes back in the Second Gen, where there's FAR more EXP being tossed around combined with more Elite, which also lets the First Gen units cap out at 30 easier. 20% is unreliable. Yes, Cuan's better occasionally, but not often enough to matter, especially since Fin >>>>>>>>>> Cuan against the hordes of armors and mounted units in 2 and 3. But this isn't Fin vs. Cuan, so it's off-topic. Azel's Move and horrid durability hurt him a lot. Quote: Not one-rounding wouldn't be such a crime, but Fin can only get EXP without getting beaten up by killing off something. At least Alec, Noish and Lex can weaken things without rolling over. The only other person taking much damage is Cuan and Lex, because everyone else has hax Swords or ranged. Lex has Elite, Cuan occasionally one rounds. Yeah, this is a point against them, but unlike Cuan and Lex, Fin still has SEVEN more chapters to get from 1 to 30, since he has 2+3 and 7-Epilogue. Hell, he could not do anything and help the team by boosting EXP Rank (which is a paaaaaain in the First Gen because there's crap like Arden and Dew and far fewer+lower leveled enemies), but that would be stupid, so he can still help out occasionally to level up a bit. Quote: All I was showing Beowolf's AS advantage for was to show that Fin's WTA becomes hardly worth mentioning when Beowulf has some more avoid to close the gap. Level 11 Fin has 10 more Luck than Beo. So Fin has 4 less Avoid against Bow and Magic users (which he'd doing better against on the player phase due to higher attack), 24 less against Axe Users (because we're going to send the mono-Lance user against the Axers, as opposed to one of the 6-7 other Sword users, right?), 16 more against Lances (only one Axe user for most of First Gen, since Lex hits 30 soon after Lachesis promotes to get Axes, and Arden will be lucky to hit 20 by the end of 5... Also, they're very common, due to Lance Armors, Lance Knights, the occasional Social Knight, Generals, and the Dragon Riders in 3), and 16 more against Swords (also pretty common compared to Axes). Plus, Charge/Duel might activate against enemies that Beo can't counter. And Fin has Prayer just in case. And he should be using Slim if Fury is stealing his Hero Lance, giving him more Avoid and shrinking the AS gap. Quote: You claimed Fin was one-rounding anything except [list of enemies which does not include these cavaliers]. I claim Fin cannot one-round those either. There isn't more to it than that. It depends on whether or not he's using Hero. Fin doubling is going to be far more reliable than Beo, since the Steel Sword << Steel Lance (this is assuming he instantly gives Fury the Hero Lance and never uses it at all in the First Gen... If he's using Hero, Beo instaloses). Plus, Chapters 2 and 3 is when Beo's skills are least reliable, and he's lacking Continue due to no promotion yet, so he's relying on Duel. Quote: So you concede that Fin was sucking. That's good. Beowulf does enough damage to finish off things anyways. Beo isn't one rounding anything when he joins except for the Fire Mages at Mackily without Duel. Unless you mean kill stealing and last hitting, which we chastised Fin for in Prologue and 1. Only Fin comes back in 7, so he doesn't need the kills as much and you can thus be pretty lenient with leveling him, whereas Beo is only around for the First Gen, and is thus totally reliant on it. Quote: Fin HAS to get last hits because it's really stupid to have him attack an axe user up straight when he's going to take a punch to the face nearly all the time, whereas EVERYONE else in your army has a way around this by either swords, ranged attack or just plain being durable enough. Also this is the first generation we're debating. Fin getting kills in Chapters 0 and 1 for preparing the second generation sounds a little bit early to me, you'll want to train up the rest too. Can't see what you're going at here. Fin doesn't need to be last hitting every turn. Just every once in a while so that he's above Arden in levels (not hard to do). By the way, Fin's better off with the Javelin than Cuan, since Cuan's much better suited for taking counters because he's a tank, unlike Fin. Quote: I don't get why you're quoting yourself since I already gave you the villages and I'm pro Lex/Ayra. Boredom, mostly. Quote: Fury can use the Hero Lance because EXP is a gay ass rank and it helps her offense, whereas Fin is still doing okay with Steel. Fury having good offense and Fin having good offense > Fury having bad offense and Fin having betterthangood offense. Fury can get rid of the Mage squad in the forests relatively quickly (no one else is prolly going to reach them before you seize Madino) and she can also give the Hero Lance some more kills by attacking pirates with it and thereby supporting Claude/Fury/Brigid. If she gets hit that's okay since Claude can Reserve. Speaking of the EXP rank sucking ass. Fin is in 9 chapters. He barely has to fight at all in the time he's in the First Gen to max out. It's what, 3 levels a chapter? Meanwhile Beo needs something like 5 and a quarter. 3 a chapter is easy mode with the Arena, too, since that drops it down to like, 2 from actual combat (maybe less) since Fin is like god if he gets to use the Hero Lance for the Arena. Fin's winning EXP Rank by a long shot, which is easily the most difficult rank, and can sit at castles to prevent losing them from ranks from losing them after hitting 30. And since Rank is cumulative between First and Second gen, this is completely relevant, since Fin is now one of, if not the, easiest unit to max out. Also, why the hell are we using a LANCE against PIRATES? I mean, yeah, give Fury the lance by that point, but seriously. You're uber gimping any unit by having them use a Lance over a Sword against an Axe User. -18 Avoid for the weight, then -20 more for gaining WTD, then -20 more for losing WTA. I'd rather be building up kills on the Thunder Sword so that Fee can run around being uber, but if you insist... It's not even the Avoid that gets owned, she's also losing 40 hit... Quote: Beowulf being at lower level than Fin is obvious, yes. It doesn't matter much at this point since Fin is leaving. Chapter 3 goes in multiple directions. Beowulf can take the armors on any place on the map while Fin does something else. He doesn't need 10 levels from Chapter 2, he just needs enough levels to promote before Chapter 4. Everything else discussed before. So we agree that Fin > Beo in Chapters 2 and 3, since Beo isn't the only sword user that wants and can use the Iron Cutter to one round and wouldn't reliably one round otherwise. Quote: If Fin needs to be saved from dying every time that is a point against him. "I fail to see why you'd leave Nino to be killed". I don't get where the bonus EXP thing is coming from. I don't mean like FE9 BEXP. I mean there's no reason to leave a unit half dead just because Ethlin needed some EXP. Edain and Lachesis are perfectly capable of topping people off with Ethlin still getting her 20EXP or whatever staff you're using, so there's no reason to say someone's gonna be half dead. This hardly matters anyway, Fin shouldn't be stealing EXP from people who are leaving within 2 chapters and not coming back, especially against the pirates. Quote: Sure as hell you'd want to give some other units EXP so they can promote before Chapter 4. Fin has the second generation to do that anyway. Everything else seems to be a point against Fin?? Anyway Silver Blade Beowulf owns the shit out of these pirates. And Steel Lance Fin > Everything leading up to that. And Beowolf likely won't have the Silver Blade against Orgahill, since Shagall just dropped it. Quote: More like Hero Lance > Steel Sword. Well, you did compare Level 22 Beo with one of the better Swords to underleveled Fin that had... Steel Lance or something. And Slim Lance Fin > Steel Sword Beo for Chapters 2-3. Quote: The worst point of Fin is when he's being babied or when he's not there at all, but sure if you want to declare this his worst point Anyway we were talking about this situation, and it seems Beowulf is better in this situation. Everything else seems to be rather lopsided: Fin sucks in Prologue and Ch1, Fin's doing better in Ch2 and part of Ch3 due to level lead, then leaves like a pussy while Beowulf is still fighting and killing. I suppose "at least when he's sucking he's doing damage" can be backfired on you here since Beowulf can use the Iron Cutter against them. And also hide in forests and shit. But hey this is only 5 enemies in total that Beowulf has little business against besides stealing a kill or something. There's like, no forests over there. And they have Javelins. And he has Duel. And a massive AS advantage to make it go off more often and get attacked more at range. And the General has a Silver Lance. And there's Lance Knights to the west, meaning Beo basically has to go north and fight the Axe Armors+Arch Knights and then the Lance/Sword/Bow Armors with the rest of the group or be put at a huge disadvantage. Also, Fin comes back in Chapter 7-Epilogue when Beo is dead for being stupid enough to trust Alvis, meaning he doesn't really need to do much in the First Gen and is better off gaining minimal EXP because of the EXP shortage in the First Gen when compared to the Second Gen. Fin's like Lex. He's not used that often, but he's a great unit because he's so easy to level up. Although Fin is for different reasons: he's in so many chapters and gets to fight in the Arena so often that there's no reason for him to need to go fight enemies he has a big disadvantage against very often, he can just sit back and weaken them or occasionally pick them off. Quote: Fin's got a chance of dying as well, like if he doesn't exactly have these averaged stats, or if Pizarl manages to kill him before his precious Prayer comes in. There's no reason to send the mono-Lance user in to cockblock the army of Axe users while on terrain that gives -10 Avoid anyway, especially one that doesn't need the EXP as much. It'd be like sending Lex in. He doesn't need more EXP. Fin should have been sent over to be awesome at Silvail since there's no Axe users there. So then he can sit around there and do whatever, sell the Hero Lance if he still has it or just sit there and be awesome, it's not really important, since by the time he'd get to Orgahill everything will be dead. And arguing RNG screwage is bad form, you can just as easily be blessed. Quote: Yes because the rest of your army has so much more RES and Beowulf isn't able to one-round the fuckers and your avoid cannot be boosted by forests at all and Fin is doing so much better. At least Fin was able to counter the enemies when Beo wasn't around. These guys have 1-2 range. Not like it matters, since Fin doing almost nothing and making EXP easier is better than being just another combat unit, especially since the only combat rating to my knowledge is "How often did you die?" and "How many people are still alive?" And his low Res+getting there first makes Beo a target for the Sleep Staff. Quote: None of Beowulf's competition is able to double with the Wing Clipper AND gets there as quickly as he does, except Alec and Lachesis. Alec can do good damage with a lance and Lachesis does OHKOs with bows and still hurts with Hero Axe/whatever lanceoraxe, Beowulf does not have this. Alec with Clipper and Beowulf with whatever gives worse output than Alec with lance and Beowulf with Clipper, therefore Beowulf gets the Clipper. I'm pretty sure that the Silver Blade is stronger than any weapon Alec is capable of using. Hm, Steel Lance (16 might) and Wing Clipper (one rounding) or Wing Clipper (one rounding) and Silver Blade (20 might). Alec needs them more than Beo because he can't use the 20 Might Sword or the 20 Might Lance. Seriously, the dude with 3 bonus attack skills doesn't need auto-crit weapons. Quote: "Hey Beowulf's offense isn't enough to kill axe users and we don't have time to dick around HELP" "Beowulf's offense is enough [numbers]" "wow you just blew my mind" >_> I don't think I said that. Regardless, comparing the Lance User and the Sword User against Axe users will end up badly. Beo with a Steel Sword at Level 10 is dealing like, 20-22 damage total to the armors in Chapter 2. Fin's dealing about 28-30 with Steel. Quote: Who can use these blades and need them? Ayra and Holyn don't need them, Lachesis doesn't need them, Sigurd doesn't need them. That leaves Fury and a lot of people who can't use them due to weapon level. Fury can only use it if she's promoted at this point, which is hard to do since she comes at a low level and very late in Ch2, and weaken pirates with swords then kill with auto-Continue Hero Lance when they're weak enough. Beowulf doesn't have any noticable competition for these swords. Holyn probably wants the Steel Blade at least, since it's better than the Silver Sword. Regardless, Fin does fine with Steel, since he doesn't need to be levelling as much, unlike Beo, and can thus give his uber weapons to others. Also. Sigurd's Strength is not uber enough for him to one round everything with Silver Sword. He might want the Blade too, perhaps moreso since unlike Beo, he doesn't have an ungodly amount of extra attacks. Quote: You're also doing your maths wrong. Beowulf needs only one of his skills to activate to one-round said opponent. Beowulf attacks for a 3HKO. Continue activates 34% of the time here, 66% of the time it does not. Enemy counterattack. Beowulf attacks with Pursuit. Continue activates 34% of the time here, 66% of the time it does not. Game checks if Beowulf is going to CHAAAAARGE. 40% of the time he will, 60% of the time he will not. To not trigger Continue, Continue and Charge, the chance would be 66% * 66% * 60%. That makes a 26% chance of not one-rounding. That's after promotion, where he has the Silver Blade, and thus has ubar attack and Fin isn't there. And I totally forgot Continue can proc off of the second attack. Quote: We care about axe users because you said Beowulf wasn't good enough against them and I proved otherwise. They are enemies of FE4 Gen 1 that Beowulf owns and Fin does not, therefore it is relevant. I never contested Fin killing 40HP10DEF Swordfighters. Also the only thing axefighters and swordfighters have in common is that both of their names end in -fighters. I can't see what you're trying to pull here. I was referring to that neither of them are worth caring about because of how rare they are. There's like, 6 Axefighters after Beo joins, and Fin won't even fight them because he's not there. The enemies that Fin is better against are far more common than those that Beo is better against, so it's really a moot point. Quote: Pamela goes for Thove castle because Andre told her to do so. Beowulf isn't "dicking around" at Thove, he's fighting Warriors at Silesia. If the Pegasi come towards Beowulf they have to face the rest of the group too, most of which have about as much trouble as he does, since as you said a large part of your army uses swords as well. But since Beowulf has the Wing Clipper he is doing as well as any other sword user if not better...or any other unit for that matter. Lex can WTA them but he's likely at 30 already and you don't want him to hog EXP. Bow users can't counterattack period unless you put them on the edge of Javelin range. Fury can counter with Javelin but lose avoid, or just do hit-and-run as she usually does Alec should be using the Wing Clipper, because he's not doubling EVER against the Slim Lances if he's a Steel Lance, and Steel Sword Alec vs. Silver Blade Beo is a no brainer in offense. And he's not one rounding if he doubles anyway, so there's no reason to gimp him like that. Quote: Way to ignore the Warriors but anyway, 34% of the time he will Continue against the Wind Mage and not take any damage at all. Sigurd, for example, will always have to face an Elwind since even with 24 Str (his L27+ average) he doesn't OHKO them. He is also one rounding the other Wind Mages in this chapter so whatever. There's a grand total of 3 Warriors, and anyone can one round them. Beo is nothing special, even less so when we factor in that if he's not at 26 or so, he needs Continue/Duel, which while having a high activation rate, are not 100% reliable when compared to other units, who are more uber at this point. Quote: If you place Beowulf carefully as opposed to like, within Lamia's leadership range so every single of her mercs can attack him freely, that becomes 86 hit, a 73% chance of landing both hits. And that's with a 'Blade...with a Steel or Silver Sword he just won't miss at all. And THEN you still have Continue and Duel to count on. Lamia killing Beowulf? Heh. First off, you're a fool if you let Beowulf get doubled by her. He's mounted, so he gets to move after attacking, which also means that he gets to reselect his weapon equipment before enemy phase. He still has the Wing Clipper and Iron Cutter with him, and those weigh only 5, so he only needs 21 speed not to get doubled. Which he has a decent chance of having at L21, and averages easily at L22-L23. But of course, to really screw up Lamia we could just let Beowulf use a lighter 3 wt sword, which :gasp: makes Beowulf double Lamia! So Beo has Silver Blade Wing Clipper Iron Cutter Steel and/or Silver Sword On a unit with Pursuit, Continue, AND Duel. Meanwhile, the guy with just Pursuit is given just a Silver Sword because he's Sigurd, never mind that he's only going to have about 1-2 more Strength at most, but has a 6 might weaker weapon than the Silver Blade. And is slower. Yes. Of course. That makes perfect sense. Holyn has even less Strength prior to 27 or so, and Moonlight Hit <<< Continue and Duel. Stop babying Beowolf. If he seriously needs all that, there's something horribly wrong. Not only are you gimping the rest of your team by forcing people like Holyn to use weaker weapons, but you're owning their Kill counts because only Beo is gaining kills for them. Beo is making the rest of the team weaker. Fin doesn't need to because he can gain minimal EXP by just weakening stuff with the Javelin because he gets to fight in 8 Arenas throughout the game and can use the uber Hero Lance for all but one of them (Chapter 1). Beo seems to be requiring FAR more babying than Fin does. Quote: Thunder Mages are like the Wind Mages in this chapter, Beowulf has a chance of killing them with Continue before they even hit them unlike many of your other units. It's like, a 38% chance. And the same could be said of Hero Lance Fin against magic users. Quote: But why is Beowulf being pitted on his OWN against her entire squadron? You have Holsety Levin plus 78923789 other units that are going towards Zaxon castle. Beowulf is just a good help in taking them down but you're not sending him off on his own, are you? Because I don't want to send out my sword users with Steel Swords and hope for the best. Quote: I think there's more that makes Fin struggle. - Elliot he 4x attacks indeed as long as he'd L7 or higher...oh wait he doesn't have Hero Lance yet. Hrhr. And the Silver Lance counter hurts. - Phillip he can double too, but for rather pitful damage if Cuan is still using Steel Lance as he should, and even if Fin is using Steel he's not doing all that much. - Boldo (guards Heirhein) he sucks against, he's not doubling him unless Fin has 16 Spd, and at L13 he averages 13.6 - Yay he can 4x attack the Duke Knight captain - He's absolutely not doing shit against MacBeth and his 23 Defense. - Augustry Duke Knight captain again...he doesn't one round the Augustry Paladin though! - McBeth he does okay against sort of, might miss a couple of times, eat a Thunder in return and not 4x attack because Clement has 3 AS (same as Boldo) - Zain is just ough - Shagaal he's not 4xing, generally not hurting that much due to Big Shield, throne evade, 15 Def etc. Cuan is still using Steel against Philip? Why doesn't he have Elliot's Silver lance? And why didn't Fin buy the Steel Lance from the shop? It's not like anyone else needs it, and since he's giving up the Hero Lance so quickly he needs something better than Iron. Fin shouldn't be fighting them anyway, since he doesn't need the EXP. And he's still doing better than Beowolf. Quote: I could repeat what I said already but then you would be repeating what you countered it with and that would be sorta useless so let's not do that Beo's using 4 Swords, all of which are very good and that several other units could use and get similar results (namely the Wing Clipper and Iron Cutter... For all the praising you do about Beo's extra attacks, you love to ignore them when it comes to giving him more weapons) Fin wants ONE weapon for TWO chapters that only ONE other unit wants, and that unit isn't even there for most-all of that first chapter. Quote: You're handholding Fin in the first few chapters, yes. Beowulf just needs the weaponry, and he has rights to that weaponry because no one else who can use it as well as he can needs it. So basically what I said before except less detailed. Alec. Holyn. Sigurd. Hell, Noish. You have Pursuit, Continue, and Duel. You don't need 40+ attack and Autocrit to go along with it when we guys with less Strength and only Pursuit. Quote: Yeah what the shit is Beowulf doing in Thor Hammer range? Let Sigurd and Levin and whoever else is there that can take a hit stand in Reptor's range while Beowulf does hit-and-run then hides. 5 Move + 2 attack, 7 range. Beo is one outside, but let's say he's attacking someone... 3 spaces away from Reptor. So he moves forward 4, attacks, and moves back 5, so he's one space further back than before. That's about as far away from Reptor you can get attacking one of his underlings like that... Quote: Sigurd has the same movement range so there's no reason to hurry up. If there's no Meteor thanks to Fury and Sylvia then who gives a damn? ... Fury should be triggering Leptor's movement since she'll already be down there. Meaning that you'll likely engage combat with Reptor in/near the desert, where Beowolf is slooooooow. Quote: Ok, so Beowulf is not solo-ing them that easily. ever. Quote: That sounds like a great way to nuke your EXP rank. How about we actually bring other units there to get kills, as opposed to Levin who has such high evasion that the enemies don't target him? Then you have two possible scenarios. 1) They cockblock all around Levin and nothing happens at all during enemy phase. 2) They cockblack all around Levin and Reptor starts fighting him, then Levin kills Reptor and everything disappears and you missed out on a bunch of EXP. Oh, right. I forgot to bring Sigurd. By the way, 126 Hit vs ~90 Avoid from losing Avoid on desert is enough to get him targeted, IIRC. Levin will need some EXP anyway. He joins at Level 6 and, while Continue and Berserk are awesome, he has trouble being a reliable attacker until he starts one shotting stuff with Holsety. Yeah, he's got uber Speed, but even with ~40% Continue he's not the most reliable unit around, especially when he has 6 Move and is thus straggling behind the mounted dudes. Quote: Yes, I'm going to keep Beowulf in the range of an enemy unit with only 5 movement (though 1-2 range) when I could let him autocrit an Armorknight/General or nuke a Sniper then run behind the frontlines again. That sounds like a brilliant way to play a strategy RPG. You have 2 units that can take a hit, one of which is still likely not 30 yet. Quote: Beo's crits do more damage than a regular Fin hit so it's not that big of a gap. Swordshogging has been handled. More like you assumed that the unit with 3 extra-hit skills needs auto-crit more than the guy with less Strength and only 1. If by "been handled," you mean you just nuked Holyn and Alec's offense so that Beo could be awesome and run around one rounding stuff, then yeah, it's been handled. That almost sounds like what you're accusing me of doing with Fury. Speaking of Fury, she could use the Iron Cutter too, because not even the Hero Lance lets her one round armors. Quote: Hm? Chapter 4 has more lancers because of the Pegasi, but half of those (Pamela's squad) he won't face. You can lure and kill a lot of pegasi out of leadership anyway, it's such a small difference. Believe it or not, there are chapters that matter other than 4, and even ignoring Pamela's squad, the Lance Armors and Deetva's squad outnumber the Axe users. In 3, the only large group of axe users is Orgahill. Lots there, but Elto's squad alone is half of that number, and the lance users spread out at the start easily outnumber that. In 2, there's like 7 after he joins, and over twice as many lancers. In 5, Knight Killer squad is raep, although there are a few more axe users because of Slaydar + Mountain Thieves. Quote: At least Beowulf is good in Ch5, and the only other person the Iron Cutter would make a significant difference on is Alec. Every other worthwhile sword user has their own ways of fucking up armors. Beowulf does it better than Alec thanks to Continue and Charge, so I don't see why Alec would get it. Sigurd has like, 25 Strength at 30, he's not fucking up Armors until he gets Tyrfring, in which case, oops, there's like 5 left in the game, whereas Alec still wants the damn thing and can't use A rank Swords. You're seriously overestimating the offense of Holyn and Sigurd here. Quote: He's not really hurting anyone on your team taking them. He's the best user for them because the ones that would use it "better" all don't need it and the ones that are worse are just going to suck at using it. So Beowulf has these things available to him, and that's a good thing. Sigurd with Silver Sword at Level 25. Attack: 38 Lance Armor in Chapter 4 49HP 15 Defense Sigurd hits for 23 twice, leaving it with 3HP. Sigurd doesn't need the Iron Cutter you say? Holyn with the Steel Blade at 25, same enemy. Attack: 39 Leaves with 1 HP unless Moonlight goes off, meaning a 53% chance of failure. Alec with the Iron Cutter against the same enemy, Level 25. 24 attack, doubled to 48. 48-15 is 33, doubles for the kill. Are you sure that Sigurd, Holyn, and Alec don't want it? Quote: if you don't mind that you have to severely weaken something for him if you don't want him to take a counterattack.* He hardly needs the EXP anyway. but still has the same issues as above Still hardly needs EXP. yes Fin does good against generic enemies in the second half of chapter 2 I can't see how the chapter is halfway over after the first castle. We've still got Anphony and Mackily and Agusty. Maybe a quarter of the chapter, tops. to be a knight-in-training by using Iron Cutter against the numerous Armors in this chapter and having WTA over the pirates including the ones that are pilfering villages Gogo item hogging. has three great swords to use now that no one else needs except those that are extremely desperate and still aren't anything worth looking at with them Beo's gimping the team. except with more axe users for WTA And more gimped fail Alec because he's using the Steel Sword against 16 might Armors. Gogo Alec, hit him for 26 damage! It's too bad Beowolf needs to 2HKO every enemy even with Continue and Duel, or else you'd actually be halfway useful, Alec. And then we look at 6, where neither exist, and 7-Epilogue where Fin is existing and doing well and Beo is... dead. Quote: Hero Lance Fin is good indeed, but that glory lasts for a relatively short time when you take into account that Fin isn't anything special the first two and a half chapters (and that's putting it in a kind way), and doesn't exist for the last two ones. "if beo has wrong weapun he will suck!?!" Why would you ever give him the wrong weapon? Enemies come in packs of units where you use the same weapon against all the freaking time. Group of pegasi? Wing Clipper. Group of armors? Iron Cutter. Group of just about anything else? Silver Blade. Quote: And I say they're still nothing to fawn over. He has no Holy Blood, and average-wise it's not like he's miles above other great units such as Jamka. The difference between Fin and people like Beo or Jamka is that Fin spreads out his leveling for the EXP rank over the course of 8 Arenas and 9 Chapters, making him win for the EXP rank. Beo fights in 4 Arenas and only gets 21 total level ups, plus he's in only 4 chapters, which is already putting him at a huge disadvantage because he can't afford to miss out on kills, whereas Fin can pretty much do whatever the crap he wants because he's everywhere. Quote: Yes because Beowulf is the one who flees the army he fought with ever since the prologue to return to the safe Lenster. Lenster was in the middle of a war with Thracia, and they had to pass through Grandbell (which was currently probably looking for them because they had helped out Sigurd) just to get there. Clearly this is safer than staying in Silesia and killing Levin's crappy brothers. Quote: If you're going to assume canon you might as well assume Beowulf gets Lachesis so "1 > 0" isn't an option. And if you're saying Fin is loyal then he wouldn't be cheating on said other woman with Lachesis, so worst case scenario for Beowulf it's a tie. And then Beowulf isn't stealing someone's wife while Fin is. In fact, he is GIVING Fin HIS girl because he needs it to hide his homosexuality. lawl. Fin/Lachesis is canon, not Beowolf/Lachesis. In FE5, Fin is specifically referred to as Nanna's father on several occasions, and the only thing to possibly contradict that is that Delmud can use the Beo Sword, which is irrelevant because Felgus can too. The only real support Beo/Lachesis has is predestination from talks (in which case you've got just as good a chance of calling Dew/Lachesis canon). The pairings that we agreed upon for Tier Lists is based upon what is most efficient for a ranked run, not what we'd agree upon to be a canon pairing. And there's a large difference between being loyal to one's country and being loyal to a person. A country and a person are too hugely different things, and the only reason Fin follows Cuan around is because he's loyal to Lenster, and Cuan is the prince. Quote: That's okay, you can't help it, you think Fin is loyal and heterosexual Nanna and Delmud had to have came from somewhere, and I can guarantee you it wasn't from Beo's fail.


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