| Viewing Single Post From: Paperblade vs Mekkah | |
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| Mekkah | Oct 6 2007, 01:22 PM |
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I'm going to concede this point, sorry fans.
First things first. And by that I mean shortest things first. Cuan > Fin in Ch0, Ch1, and due to his greater stats and Silver Lance he is likely to be on par if not beating Fin a lot against several enemies. One rounding one in five battles is better than not one rounding at all. Azel still has offense and range over Fin, there's not much beyond that. Now, if you are not babying Fin early on, then he isn't gaining that huge level lead you are suggesting. He doesn't have the Hero Lance yet, so he is not beating Shark in the Ch1 arena unless he gets lucky with Prayer activation, in which case he will just lose to the Axe Armor Bacchus (Stage 5) or the Wind Mage Emmile (Stage 6). If he is indeed just getting enough to stay ahead of Ardan as you suggest, he's not going to be so much rapage as you've been suggesting in your past two posts, which would make you contradictory. Fin (L1) is babied a little bit in Prologue and gets 1 level Fin (L2) fights in the arena and gains 1.5 level Fin (L3) is babied a little bit in Ch1 and gets another 1.5 level Fin (L5) fights a little bit more in Ch2 (namely, in the arena), possibly not doing good in the arena until he has his Hero Lance. You even admitted he's not taking on Heirhein's troops, and since he's absolute dick against each and every single of Elliot's troops (not doubling the Lance Knights, WTD against Axe knights, Elliot does like 27 damage on his 35 HP and moves last). So, Fin will not even have a level lead on Beowulf. If you don't agree with these levels given, too bad for you, should've given some kind of guideline for me to argue against. All the way through you were just working with me under the assumption Fin was keeping on par with the others, working harder than the others to do so because he's lower level and he sucks more against enemies. You didn't though, so I just assumed when you said "not being babied" that he's not killing as much as others (let alone ever weakening something). He wasn't so great at that either way, but you also conceded him getting a last kill every turn. It's like he's a sniper of sorts with constant WTD. Comparison revised. Let's say he's L7 when Beowulf joins. Then he's grown 3 levels in each chapter so far, which is seemingly the closest thing to an estimate you have given me:
You've also said that from your base to Heirhein is like a quarter of the chapter...
So uhhh 25 more EXP I guess. He's not pulling it from this chapter for sure, because you've also said he's not fighting Heirhein. But he can gain some in the arena, right? Except he is struggling without the Hero Lance, so he might want to do that later. Seeing as he's again struggling versus the Stage 4 Swordfighter and the stage 5 Armor. This is all assuming a L7 Fin by the way, going by your rate of 3 levels in Prologue + Chapter 1. Fin kills him in 3 hits of 18 damage, but has 74 hit on him, while this guy doubles him with strokes of 12 damage, killing Fin in three hits as well, and he has 98 hit. After two hits Fin has 12 HP left, so he's not being saved by Prayer here...and since the Swordfighter is faster Fin will only get to attack once before he's at death risk. And even if he wins he needs insane luck against the Stage 5 Armor (kills Fin in two hits of 20, Fin kills him in five hits of 12, and the Armor has 90 hit on him).
And I'm saying he is absolutely blowing cock against Elliot's group, because the Axe knights rape him with WTD and hey,
Then you have the lance knights which he does okay against I suppose...which leaves Elliot, who does 27 damage to his 34 HP and moves last. So basically axe knight or lance knight stab + Elliot stab equals dead Fin (10 Str, 12 or 14 Mt, 8.8+1 Def) and there's no Prayer to save you. Beowulf L9 Free Knight HP: 38.0 Str: 14.0 Skl: 11.0 Spd: 11.0 Def: 10.0 Res: 0.0 Luk: 3.0 Pursuit, Duel Steel Sword (10 Mt, 3 Wt) Atk: 24 Def: 10 AS: 8 Hit: 102 Avo: 19 Fin L7 Lance Knight HP: 36.2 Str: 11.8 Skl: 11.4 Spd: 11.8 Def: 9.8 ReS: 0.3 Luk: 11.0 Cuan-talk included Pursuit, Prayer, (Hero Continue) Hero Lance (15 Mt, 12 Wt) Atk: 26.8 Def: 9.8 AS: -0.2 Hit: 102.8 Avo: 10.6 Steel Lance (16 Mt, 12 Wt) Atk: 27.8 Def: 9.8 AS: -0.2 Hit: 102.8 Avo: 10.6 Slim Lance (12 Mt, 6 Wt) Atk: 23.8 Def: 9.8 AS: 5.8 Hit: 112.8 Avo: 22.6 Let's see, is Fin still one-rounding everything except Swordarmors, bosses (and the Cavalier/Paladin group you tried to leave out of the list, but I SEE EVERYTHING)? The answer is a clear and loud no. I draw out your splendid database of Chapter 2 enemies and I see tides have changed on the following enemies, assuming Hero Lance and therefore 27 Atk all the time: 39 HP/8 Def Arch Knight - 2x19, 1HP left 42 HP/9 Def Cavalier - 2x18, 6HP left 54 HP/14 Def Axe Armor - 4x13 HP, 2HP left 54 HP/14 Def Bow Armor, 4x13 HP, 2HP left 40 HP/8 Def Bow Fighter, 2x19, 2HP left 42 HP/8 Def Swordfighter, 2x19, 4HP left Both of these last two double Fin, btw. However, there is an unignorable 42% chance Fin has only 11 Str or less. See http://fea.fewiki.net/feastat.php?characte...n&game=4&stat=1 ? At L7, his chance to have 10 Str or lower (second table). For Fin this is 11 Str or lower because the convo with Cuan hasn't been factored in. Normally, I wouldn't fuss and just take the average. But this one point of Str has a pretty big impact on Fin's performance. With 26 Atk instead of 27, all of Beowolf's merc friends (37 HP/8 Def, 2x18, 1HP left) are added to the list. So what's left for Fin to one-round, provided he's even going to fight (which it seems you don't want him to more often than like 4 times)? The lance knights from Augustry, the axe knights (but he doesn't want to fight those, you said so yourself), the mountain thieves (he doesn't even meet those, plus he's liable to miss with their +40 avoid from WTA and village), the weaker armors, and then some retarded stuff like the Priest, the Firemages, Fury's squad and the Longarcs. That isn't as impressive as you put it before! And that's all the best weapon Fin gets, I think the numbers speak for themselves if you equip something else, which you already seemed to consider as a possibility. Personally, if you're not letting Fin fight much, I think Cuan getting the Hero Lance isn't even a bad idea. His BASE Str (16) allows him to one-round everything Fin doesn't quadrupple better, and then he has 50% Str growth and generally kicked more butt than Fin in the first chapters. L8 Cuan has 18 Str, combine with 15 Mt and you got 33 Attack to play with. That kills everything instantly, except bosses and armors. And since Cuan is fighting more than Fin because he only has this and Ch3 left to get as close to L30 as possible, the Hero Lance is put to better use in the hands of the Lenster prince. "but Silver Lance" Then Cuan will have to finish off Elliot, which may not happen because you are in a fucking rush and Cuan will want to get to Heirhein with Sigurd as soon as possible. And then it's 20 Mt and 20% Continue vs 15 Mt and auto-Continue, where 5 Mt makes dick difference in one-rounding whereas Hero Lance allows him to rape about everything. "but Cuan HAS Continue already" Yeah, and while it's an existant chance, ~20% < ~100%. And he's KOing a lot with it that Fin isn't, and more dangerous enemies too. I'm not afraid of slow ass armors that cannot move again, I'm more afraid of mounted units attacking one unit repeatedly until it goes down. Told ya I'd better do short things first.
Cuan and Lex have ranged too, unless you meant "hax ranged", but whatever. "Hey Fin can do this (which is great because EXP is a pain) but that would be stupid" does not strike me as anything relevant. I'll just take "level up a bit" as that average 3 levels per chapter.
Yeah, and L7 Fin has only 8 more Luk, which makes your numbers flawed. Beowulf now has a 9 avoid lead against bow and magic users, and the Atk difference is like...2. And against bow users, Beowulf can trigger Duel whereas Fin is never doing more than in the examples above where he leaves them alive, and these bow users are also doubling Fin and not Beowulf. He also has 39 avoid vs -10.6 makes a massive 49.6 avoid lead against axe users, and there's some axe armors and axe knights among the enemies and this is actually a significant difference. Against lances, Fin has...3.6 more avoid. Watch out enemies, once in 33 or so battles Fin will dodge when Beowulf will not! So they have about equal Atk, Beowulf wins somewhere massively in avoid, by a small amount against others and then Fin wins by an even smaller amount against the last kind. And then Beowulf has 1.8 more HP and 0.2 more Def and has been labeled for "having bad durability" before by you. Suddendly Fin doesn't look like so much win anymore, if he even does - he wins in damage against the armors he can quadrupple if he even has the Hero Lance, and then he is getting fucked against axearmors. If Fin is using Slim, he actually has LESS attack than Beowulf in trade for leading by...lol 3.6 avoid again against bows/magic. As for Charge activating when Beowulf isn't countering, I decided to run a little test. I hacked into FE4 with FE4Edit, and made Sigurd into a Paladin with a bunch of Spd and 80HP. Then I gave Iron Axe 1~2 range and 30 Wt, giving Charge a circa 83% chance of activating. Then I just pitted him against a bunch of axefighters in the Prologue and watched as they swung their axe at the air and hit them. But they wouldn't ever attack more than once however often I pressed end turn, so it's pretty safe to say Charge only works when you're (counter)attacking. This isn't FE5 where you can use this to whine at Dagda, sorry! Prayer is so unreliable it isn't even funny. It's also going to be useless most of the time because risking Fin at close-to-death range is begging to get fucked over.
Uh, Fin is doubling more reliably than Beowulf despite having 8 less AS with Steel/Hero Lance, and still 2 less with Slim Lance? Beowulf is doubling everything except Voltz, a handful of Swordfighters and lolFury in Ch2. Also, to resort to something very basic: having Duel > not having Duel. Fin without the Hero Lance is not going to attack more than twice, and that's against enemies Beowulf is most likely to D-d-d-d-d-Duel.
And Fin isn't one rounding anything in Prologue and Ch1, and is only one-rounding if he gets the Hero Lance Cuan is using in a much more awesome way, and then a lot of the things he one-rounds are retarded (Longarcs, Priest) or have WTA against him (axeknights, axe armors). Over Beowulf, the only non-retarded things he one-rounds are Lanceknights, the weaker Bow/Lance Armors and all of the two Duke Knights. And most Lanceknights are in an army he's not fighting according to you, and the same goes to the armors. Well, Beowulf doesn't need to last-hit as much since he has some enemies to WTA against in this chapter as well as some he is weapon-neutral against (and those he doubles, unlike Fin who didn't double the Hunters "back in the day"). Yeah, in other words, Beowulf is leveling up faster than Fin in Gen 1, which is what the whole debate is about. You argue that it's better for the whole ranking aspect to let Fin level slowly, then you shall suffer the consequences in Gen 1.
Yeah, I agree, Fin shouldn't kill too much. All the better so Beowulf actually has and keeps a level lead. Hey, if Fin is last hitting, what does he need a Javelin for? And Javelin also ruins his ability to double, say, L10 Axefighters with non-Hand Axes.
But in the end the actual levelups that Fin will have done is 29, whereas for Beowulf it's 21...but then again, for the first gen, which we're concerned about, Fin is only gaining 12. What Fin does in the second generation is irrelevant. Oh, and if you let him sit on a castle at L30 and he's attacked, he's :wasting: EXP. If he's not attacked, then him sitting there is a pretty big waste of a unit. Loze/loze
Would have agreed, but then Fin is gaining only 3 levels per chapter so his win is becoming very, very contestable. And Beowulf wants the Iron Cutter the most...since you seem to raise Alec as the main example later on against the pegs, I'll adress him here for a bit longer. Alec can use an Iron Lance and do more than Beowulf ever could with a Steel Sword if he doesn't do Duel, and that also is better for no WTD against the lance armors. Or Alec could just fight something else besides Armors...he can use the Horseslayer against those Lance knights in the west, he can use it against the bow knights in the north or just fight well there.
Yeah, Fin shouldn't be fighting them, but then again you were the one who continued on it. But still always having to be healed twice...blegh. And disagreeing with yourself is pretty blegh too.
Steel Lance Fin certainly is not > everything, if you meant that, be it your units or enemy units. Doesn't one round anything except shit like Longarcs in Ch2, lol. Whoever killed Shagaal can sell it in the Pawn Shop of Silvail, and then Beowulf can buy it in Madino. Not that hard.
And it was against the pirates anyway which you conceded for Fin whereas Beowulf still does well against them. "Underleveled Fin" what...by your logic of 3 levels per chapter for Fin, he should be L13 right now. I've handled Ch2, so here's Ch3. Fin L13 Lance Knight HP: 40.4 Str: 16.6 Skl: 13.8 Spd: 13.6 Def: 11.6 Luk: 14.0 Includes both the Cuan talk and the +3 Str and +1 Def villages. Pursuit, Prayer Slim Lance Atk: 28.6 Def: 11.6 AS: 7.6 Hit: 117.6 Avo: 29.2 Beowulf L14 Free Knight HP: 42.0 Str: 16.0 Skl: 13.0 Spd: 12.5 Def: 11.5 Luk: 4.0 Pursuit, Charge Steel Sword Atk: 26.0 Def: 11.5 AS: 9.5 Hit: 106 Avo: 23 And that's Beowulf at his normal rate at the beginning of this chapter (5 and a quarer per chapter, so L9+5 = 14) while Fin at the end (1 + 3 for Prol, + 3 for Ch1, + 3 for Ch2, + 3 for Ch3 makes 14). But but but! Beowulf is going to stand next to Lachesis a lot as opposed to Fin who is usually going somewhere else, increasing Beowulf's avoid to 33 thanks to Charisma, so he's on par. And if Lachesis is already in love with him, that's another +10 hit/+10 avoid for Beowulf. Takes 350 love points with 7 per turn, so 50 turns in about two chapters. Given that we're averaging about 35 turns per chapter and that both 2 and 3 are extremely long, this is not unlikely to happen at all.
Which FE4 are you playing? These armors charge from the start and Beowulf can hit-n-run them if he needs to (though he doesn't, since as you said, he can go north and kick butt there)  With Lachesis next to him in a forest (innuedo) that's 53 avoid in a forest. These Javelin-losers have 24 Atk, so they do 13 damage if they hit him, which is 16 (Skl) + 60 (Javelin hit) - 53 (avoid) = 23% of the time. He can take 3 hits, so he'd die in like 12 rounds. And Lachesis is healing him every time, so not happening. The General has 100 hit so about 50/50 chance to hit him, and with his 34 Atk does 23 damage. Which means that even if the General hits him, he only dies if two out of four Javelin guys hit him. But since the General isn't getting to him before he fucked one of these Javeliners over, naganna happen. Beowulf can take his chances against this one, or he can just take the safe route and go up north. Not an entirely relevant fight, but not one where Beowulf is going to roll over and die. Duel is not activating other than when Beowulf is hitting, as I proved.
Yeah, we've been over that and concluded that Fin is not fighting those. Especially since the +1 Def village is near Silvail, so if he wants that he's never getting there. I am not arguing RNG screwage. You were assuming Fin had exactly his average stats in order for the pirates to hit him so that he would land somewhere between 1 and 10 HP so he gets Prayer. However, if he has other (could be lower, but it also applies when higher) HP/Def, he could miss out on it because every pirate is doing another amount of damage. Not that Fin is at the level you proposed him (19), but rather at 14, making your comparison even more moot.
But Beowulf has more avoid against Wind Mages than Fin has against axe users. And I didn't see Fin countering Hunters and Hand Axe Axefighters without equipping "his" Javelin, in which case he just gets raped more by axe users. If Fin isn't fighting then he's not really helping tactics a lot though, which is about as annoying as EXP. And Fin is liable to dying early on if you don't guard him, so he's not helping that "combat" (more like survival) rating either. Cuvuli, the Bishop with the Sleep Staff, has 16 Mag. The condition for hitting with the Sleep Staff is simple: have more Mag than the target has Res. Let's see who has 17 or more Res at this point. If a unit is not listed, then he has less than 17 Res even at L30. Claude Fury (averages 16.4 at L30, so very unlikely) Levin (averages 16.4 at L30, so very unlikely) Tiltyu (averages 16.7 at L30, so even more unlikely because she came at L3 at the end of Ch3) So yeah, Beowulf is a target for the Sleep Staff. So are Sigurd, Alec, Noish, Ardan, Ayra, Lachesis, Azel, Brigid, Jamka, Aideen, Dew, Fury, Levin, Holyn, Sylvia and whoever I forgot. Better off just hurting and leaving alive one of the Wind Mages, because Cuvuli prefers healing one of his minions over putting someone to sleep.
Deetva's Peg Knights 53/12/1/12/17/0/10/8, Slim Lance, Slim Sword, 11 (16 with Slim Sword) (9) Slim Lance Pegasi have 22 avoid. Using calculations from Serene's... Alec L22 Paladin Pursuit, Awareness Wing Clipper HP: 46.0 Atk: 23.0 Def: 16.0 AS: 14.0 Hit: 110.0 Avoid: 38.0 Alec does 36 damage per hit with Wing Clipper, and doubles if they have Slim Lance. He has 68 hit on them (110 hit - 22 avoid - 20 WTD). In case Deetva is giving Leadership, he has 48 hit. Beowulf L21 Free Knight Pursuit, Charge, Continue Wing Clipper / Silver Blade HP: 47.6 Atk: 25.8 / 39.8 Def: 15.6 AS: 15.6 / 14.6 Hit: 119.6 / 109.6 Avoid: 36.6 Beowulf does 43 damage per hit with Wing Clipper, and doubles if they have Slim Lance. He has 77.6 hit on them (119.6 hit - 22 avoid - 20 WTD). In case Deetva is giving Leadership, he has 57.6 hit. Beowulf does 29.8 damage per hit with Silver Broadsword, and doubles if they have Slim Lance. He has 67.6 hit on them (109.6 hit - 22 avoid - 20 WTD). In case Deetva is giving Leadership, he has 47.6 hit. So, Alec is having pretty shitty hit on them when they have their lance equipped. If they got Slim Sword equipped he has no chance of one-rounding at all. Beowulf has 10 more hit on them, and if he misses or doesn't double he's got other skills to try some more, whereas Alec has no such option. And that's without factoring in that Lachesis is there, who gives +20 hit/avoid to Beowulf. Lachesis is more often near Beowolf than Alec, but even if she's standing near both Alec only receives +10/+10 since she's Beowolf's bitch and not Alec's (or Fin's for that matter). This however you twist or turn it widens the gap even more. And then there's Deetva herself. Boss: Deetva *** - Falcoknight L21, 61/13/9/16/21/0/12/14, Silver Sword, Prayer Ring, 18 Neither of our horsemen is Pursuiting. Alec with Wing Clipper is therefore doing 46 (23 Mt * 2) - 12 (def) = 34 maximum. Beowulf is doing 51.6 (25.8 Mt * 2) - 12 = 39.6 per hit, and has a 35% chance of activating Continue and one-rounding that bitch. And also a 23.8 (MaxHP/2) + 15.6 (AS) - 18 (enemy AS) = 39.4 - 18 = 21.4% chance of triggering Charge. Beowulf's chance of not-one rounding Deetva is 65% * 78.6% = 51.09%. Not factoring in that Lachesis can give him a Lover critical. Alec's chance of not-one rounding Deetva is 100%. Beowulf does more damage per blow, has a chance of one-rounding her, and has more accuracy with the Wing Clipper than Alec does. At least if Alec shifts to Steel Lance he has WTA over Deetva. Alec is Beowulf's main competition for the Wing Clipper. Beowulf > Alec at Wing Clippering, therefore Beowulf gets the Wing Clipper.
You did say that. I'll quote it again.
Also, Fin has 27.8 Atk at L7 in Ch2, while Beowulf has 24 at recruitment level. Againt a 13 Def armor that means Fin is doing 29.6, while Beowulf is doing 22. But Beowulf is doubling Swordarmors (either 12 or 14 Def) whereas Fin is not, so Beowulf is doing 24 or 20, while Fin is doing 15.8 or 13.8. So a 7 dmg advantage for Fin against, say, Lancearmors, but 7 or 9 advantage for Beowulf on Swordarmors, and against Axearmors Beowulf is better defensively due to that 30+ avoid lead, and Beowulf also has a chance to trigger Duel against the slow ass Armors.
Holyn can use a Steel Blade, though he comes with an Iron Blade anyway and does really good with that too. That still leaves Beo with the Silver Blade. Fin doesn't one-round anything particulary interesting with his Steel Lance, but that's okay since he's not helping your army against enemies anyway since he "doesn't need the EXP". Depending on how much you used Sigurd, he can be running around with 50 kills on his Silver Sword already. He doesn't need to one-round much anyway, because he's not a unit that requires leveling anymore. I'd rather let the Sigurd that you assumed to be L25 in Ch4 set up some kills for units that have just promoted or still have to, like Lachesis, Levin, yeah Beowulf, Fury, or perhaps you wanna get in some major EXP by letting Tiltyu finish off something. Sigurd fights plenty to hit L30 by the end of this generation, especially since he's going to do a huge portion of the fighting against Reptor if he hasn't gained enough by Tyrfinging through Ch5 anyway.
Yeah Sherlock, it was about Ch4, where Beowulf is owning and Fin is not helping at all. Lol.
It seems that the times axefighters are there Beowulf is quite good at fucking them up, and seeing as they are either burning down villages or capturing civilians I would say doing so faster is a good thing. A better thing than not being there. The enemies that Fin is convincingly better against in Ch2 and Ch3 are like, pretty rare. Steel Lance Fin is one rounding Lanceknights, Longarcs and maybe some other uninteresting things. Slim Lance even less. Hero Lance is okay, but not as "ownage" as you presented it earlier and Cuan is better at Hero Lancing anyway.
Beowulf fucks over Peg Knights a lot better than Alec with the Wing Clipper. He hits more often (a lot more often if Lachesis is near, which she is), he attacks more often thanks to his skills in case he misses, he can one-round the boss. You gave Alec a huge level lead anyway, why would you want him to kill Pegasus knights? He's worse at it and gains less EXP.
Like who? Ayra can do it with her Hero Sword, but Steel Blade Holyn needs Moonlight Hit to do it, Sigurd just falls short at L25, Fury won't make it, Jamka needs skills to trigger just like Beowulf (and is taking the harder-to-dodge Steel Bow counters), etc. Beowulf is better than a handful of your good units at these Warriors, and some are just as good as he is.
Or you could give him an Iron/Slim Sword which nobody needs at this point, and is good enough to prevent Lamia doubling him. Point is, Lamia only doubles him if you're dumb. Or think you need one of these weak swords on someone else. Sigurd has to fight less at this point because he was always in the thick of the action. He's likely to fight bosses because if he can kill a boss he can seize that turn. He has plenty of EXP and is going to be L30 anyway, and for that he only needs his Silver Sword. Holyn is doubling everything and after he's promoted he basically triggers Moonlight once 50% of the time which results into a one-round. Kill counts is done per weapon. If Beowulf kills something with Silver Blade, it gets +1. If Holyn does it, it gets +1. I don't know how this affects Beowulf using it at all. Ignoring the weapon deal (which has been touched plenty now) Beo makes the team weaker in the same sense that Sigurd or Ayra does - they need their share of EXP, but it's hardly noticable in the end, except that at the end of Ch5 not using Beowulf results into 21 less level-ups on your rank than when you use Beowulf. That more than compensates for whatever amount of levels you would've gotten if Beowulf wasn't there, because nearly all of the time he's gaining more EXP than your other fighting units. As far as 1st Gen is concerned, Fin gains 12 level ups and Beowulf gains 21. The gap between Beowulf's and Fin's fighting when Fin would be winning has been proven to be small, while when Beowulf is there and Fin isn't, Beowulf is kicking butt with weapons he deserves to have. And Beowulf actively taking part in fighting helps more than Fin weakening with Javelin or Slim Lance or whatever weapon he has.
Yaya, except Fin is never using his Hero Lance against magic users, plus this is about Ch4 Thunder Mages which Fin cannot fight because he's running away like a pussy. Beowulf's 38% > 0% anyway.
Beowulf is using a Silver Blade, a Wing Clipper and an Iron Cutter, plus something like an Iron Sword which nobody needs. That leaves two Iron Blades, a Steel Blade, the Prayer Sword, the Defense Sword, the Thunder Sword, the Wind Sword, the Earth Sword, two Silver Swords and a Hero Sword. Give Ayra Hero Sword. Give Holyn Steel Blade. Give Sigurd Silver Sword. Give Lachesis a Hero Axe, and if you want her to fight these Swordguys, she can use her Earth Sword. Then, for mattering sword users, you've got Alec, Fury and perhaps Noish and lolDew/Ardan. Fury can use a Silver Sword if she's promoted, which shouldn't be much of a problem by now. Otherwise she can use the Prayer Sword and Silver Lance or something, and snipe with Javelin throws. That means promoted Noish can get the Hero Lance, and if Noish isn't promoted then he doesn't have anything better than Steel Sword to use. If Noish isn't promoted Alec can use the Hero Lance since he IS promoted. Then there's the Defender Sword and these Magic swords left to divide among those who want them. What's the problem?
What if Cuan doesn't kill Elliot? He and Sigurd arrive there first, and Cuan is better to deal earlier blows than Sigurd due to Sigurd having WTD. But fine, give Fin the Steel Lance and watch him still fail to one-round anything spectacular. Yeah, less EXP for Fin, and less Fin helping the team in weakening bosses, or killing them so Sigurd can seize and the rest can move on. Thanks. His situation only got worse compared to how you used to present it, like he doesn't even one-round the Duke Knights anymore without his precious Hero Lance. And again, at this point Fin has like 3-4 more Atk than Beowulf, and Beowulf has higher AS, and against lancers Fin has like a 3.6 avoid lead whereas against everything else Beowulf is leading in avoid, and he also has a very slight HP/Def lead. So if Fin is doing better than Beowulf here it's by a (rather short) toenail length.
I'm sick of swordhogarguing but once more: the "good" swordusers (Sigurd, Ayra, Holyn I believe are your main arguments) are doing really fucking well without these weapons, whereas the worse ones (I believe Alec is your favourite) are not doing as well as Beowulf is. And Beowulf needs EXP more badly than these others do due to level leads, so he is statistically the best one to use them. These extra attacks only make Beowulf do more damage with these weapons than others can do with them, which matters against things like Deetva and Generals in Ch5. Fin wants this one weapon while Cuan wants it more because Cuan has 2 chapters left to gain EXP whereas Fin has 5 and Fin isn't even fighting things other than for the purpose of weakening, as you admitted. And then Fury joins and also has good reasons for using it.
The first three have a level lead on Beowulf, which is one reason for him to be killing things with these weapons. Then Holyn has Moonlight hit with extremely high activation, Sigurd has Critical if he has 50 kills on his Silver Sword and can also use a Steel Lance against slow enemies. More multihit skills = more chances to get autocrit or to launch that 40+ atk on something = more damage = better results.
Then let Levin and Sigurd stand in front of him so Reptor cannot reach Beowulf.
Then Sigurd is sloooow too, and Leptor is slooow as well (like 1 walking range, then 1-2 range, meaning 3 range). Not very difficult to keep Beowulf out of that and still get him kills, because Reptor also brings underlings that move faster through the desert: 2 Forrests, 2 Snipers, a High Priest and 4 Thunder Mages.
Wait. So these Knight Killers had 31 hit on him? Let's decrease that to 11 because Lachesis gives Charisma and Lover bonus. Which means his chance of dodging them all is about 22%. Except the Lenster army tends to kill one, sometimes two on average, increasing it to 25%. And then Beo also survives one hit, coming nearer to 30%, etc. The chance the boss hits him twice in a row (i.e. does enough to 2HKO) is 34% now by the way. But whatever, Beowulf is making fun of Reptor's army anyway.
60 evade from 30 Spd (which Levin has after he promotes), then 40 more because he gets +20 Spd from Holsety, then 10 more from 10+ Luk makes it 110. Then Sigurd is there and compensates the avoid loss of the desert with his leadership. Armors have 102 hit with Steel Lance/Steel Bow, 82 with Javelin. They're going to stall. Forrests have 60 hit with Silver Blade, but 18 Skl so 96. They're going to stall. Snipers have 116 hit, so they might attack him. High Priest won't attack. Thunder Mage has 80 hit + 30 from Skl so 110. Except they have WTD against Wind, so they're going to stall. Generals have 80 hit + 24 from Skl so 104, so they're going to stall. Then Reptor comes in with 90 + 72 = 162 hit from Thor Hammer. If he dies to Levin now, you miss a lot of EXP. If he doesn't die from either not attacking or not getting killed in combat, then you'll want to kill as many units there as you can before you have to kill Reptor. Levin absolutely dominates the arena even without Pursuit and gains levels really quickly. He's also the one that kills all these mountain thieves in Ch2. He's also a great candidate for the Pursuit Ring, basically the only one who uses it even remotely as well is Noish. And Levin is also a very likely candidate for the Bargain Ring since he and Sylvia are most near it, which means Pursuit Ring costs less to buy every now and then, combined with the gold he gets from villages there and the arena. He only needs 6 levels per chapter, and a lot of that can come from the arena and Holsety spam. Levin is likely to make L30 before Reptor's army.
Except Brigid starts with 40 HP/9 Res and Reptor has 51 Atk (21 Mag + 30 Mt). So she needs 2 HP level-ups to make that, which Brigid averages with just 3 level ups thanks to 90% growth. I don't think you'll have trouble getting that on an Ichival user, especially considering she has to defend herself against pirates when she joins. Heck, Holyn can take a hit on average if he's just promoted (20*, 48.8 HP, 4.4 Res). Ayra can do it at L26 (47.4 HP, 5.1 Res). Claude ALWAYS can do it (34 HP and 20 Res at base). Fury can do it at L20 (39.5 HP/15.4 Res). Jamka can do it at L21 (49.5 HP/3.7 Res). You have a lot of units who can take a Thor Hammer whack which Beowulf can hide behind.
It's not a question of "need more". He does more damage with them - it's more common that Alec fails to one-round with autocrit than Beowulf. Holyn's offense is not "nuked". How do you nuke someone's offense if he still gets to use a Steel Blade and have a guaranteed one-round with Moonlight Hit a lot whenever his 37.4 at L20* power isn't enough? Why'd you let Fury fight armors again when there's always a Mage to pick off in Ch4 or Ch5, or when there's mountain thieves to kill when they're burning down villages, again in both chapters? Fury is like the last person I'd give the Iron Cutter to.
Beowulf rapes both of these squads anyway. And since Fin is hardly winning anything worthwhile against even lance users in Ch2 and Ch3 if he even is (Beowulf wins in offense against anything that the Cutter or Clipper crits), and in Ch4 and Ch5 he is not winning at all since he is not there. Ch3: Eltho's squad uses Javelins from distance, yes, but up close they have Steel Swords, and Beowulf is doubling them while Fin is not. There's also axearmors up north, and of course villagepilfering. Ch2: Yeah ok. Then again I already explained that Fin's win against lancers is 3.6 avoid, while Beowulf's win against axers is like 30+ avoid, plus even higher chance for Duel. Ch5: He's not facing Knight Killer squad, or if he is they should be fucked up quickly anyway because Sigurd, Alec, Azel, Lachesis and any other mounted unit gets raped by them as well. And yes, Beowulf owns all of these Dozel troops, including the Generals next to Langobart.
And why would Sigurd try to fuck up armors when he only needs 4 levels per chapter on average and gains much more than that in the first few chapters because he is such a goddamn rapist that kills bosses for quicker seizes? Alec got a level lead on Beowulf as well and cannot even one-round any of the Generals in Ch4 and Ch5. (18 Str + 5 Mt) *2 Crit = 46, L20 Generals have 60HP/18 Def. In the meantime Beowulf has just a pinch more Str so he can Pursuit, and even if Great Shield activates he will Continue or Charge them to death. Holyn has a massive level lead as well because he just rules the arena every chapter, and with his capped Skl and Moonlight hit triggering all the time he doesn't need a cutter.
Why has your Sigurd grown 20 levels over the course of 5 whole chapters when he fights bosses for quicker seizes? More importantly, why is he fighting these when he should be repairing the Tyrfing? Or why do you want him to gain more levels when he has nearly guaranteed dibs (only shared with Levin) on a lot of Reptor's army, killing Langobart, killing Reptor, and all of Phinora castle (fucking Sleep Priests).
That's great, pick it off with Tiltyu or Noish or someone else for EXP++. Or if Holyn was just one level higher he'd one-round it anyway.
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