| Viewing Single Post From: Reikken vs Inui | |
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| Reikken | Oct 8 2007, 01:59 PM |
 
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What you talkin bout, Willis?
First off, the Mercs average 41 avo. 14-17 spd, 1 AS loss, and, 6-8 lck. +5 from the terrain. Sentenal's enemy samples are probably just the highest he can find or something, I dunno. 63 (73%) hit with Aircalibur, 73 (85.7%) with Fire. Anyway, so every enemy on the map is a Merc, huh? Let's compare Garret against the Mercs when he joins, then. He has about 51 (52.5%) hit on them with a Killer Axe, and his hit doesn't go any higher. When he attacks, unlike Cecilia, he gets doubled with a counterattack for 14x2, and then it takes just one to finish him on enemy phase. Cecilia needs 2 thanks to not taking a counterattack. And the best part? If it's an enemy she's bad against, she can still be just as useful for she can do other things, such as use staves. Garret? He either sits there and does nothing, or he gets raped. And often healing is better regardless. Saving someone from death and/or allowing them to go continue fighting >>>> attacking and maybe killing an enemy.
o noz. Who cares? It's one enemy, and it rapes alot of people. Even Alan can get one-rounded by it. If Garret was decent against it, then sure, but that's obviously not the case.
Worst possible enemy on the map = Steel Axe Brigand or Steel Lance Wyvern Rider. Hand Axe Brigand is actually one of the ones she does the worst against (for Player Phase at least) since it has 1-2 range.
Wtf? Cecilia does about 33 damage to it. (2-3 res, 16-17 def, 12-13 spd) For a physical attacker to do that much with a double, they would need about 33 atk. It takes a fully supported already promoted Alan to reach that, and that's a bit unlikely. 19/0 Alan has way less than that much atk and doesn't double. 19/0 Lance does about 21 damage. Only Gonzales, level ~18 doubles with 32 atk to almost match Cecilia. No one else even comes close. Cecilia is actually one of the best for killing this thing since nearly anyone is dying in 2 hits (and that 1 hp isn't much of a problem since this is her at base, so her stats are RNG-proof, and this is on the higher side of the Wyvern Lord's str) but Cecilia doesn't take a counterattack, and your other anima user dies in 1 hit; and she does high damage, easily killing it in two hits.
Mm-hmm. This doesn't matter at all. The Mamkutes have low range and don't move unless you're in range, and the 2 Berserkers start several turns later and way behind you.
and everyone's avoid drops by 5 "Druids that wtfraep her terribly"? What are you talking about? There's only one Druid that attacks, and it's no more dangerous than anything else. No, she's not overly durable, but most others aren't either, and Cecilia isn't taking counterattacks and isn't always fighting and is healing instead, and she has high mobility for good placement, so there's no problem.
Garret joins here. Now...who cares? Garret is even worse off, as shown above, and his only role is fighting. Way to phail.
Saul and Ellen can attack as well. Even if you don't need as many heals as you have staff users, and you very often will--this is FE6, afterall-- letting Saul or Ellen attack instead of heal = +that much offense, and they have pretty good offense thanks to being already promoted. Lugh is indeed later on, out of the context of this section of the discussion, and even once he does promote, see above. The others are also later on, but they're also "lolnothx, I'd rather not use sucky units."
You haven't done anything to show that Cecilia is even suck, let alone massive suck. "This enemy can pwn her!" "Oh wait, a top tier unit can get pwned as well". So she doesn't wtfraep enemies. Okay? This is FE6, not FE7. Enemies don't suck and get raepd. If she was sucking compared to everyone else, then sure, but that's not the case. She's actually pretty well off as she can both attack and heal, and she's mounted but without the slayer weaknesses since horseslayers are only effective against paladins and cavaliers.
Treck doesn't die before he's recruited. Rescue/drop, and he's recruited on turn 2 every time. Indeed Treck may not be used, but Geese is about as good as Treck, so he's also getting not used about as much.
A Lalum B Geese > A Lalum B Gonzales - support triangle - Echidna needs offense moar: she's already getting full avo and near-full def
More like Geese isn't getting used at all because he has no supports until a C midway through Ilia/Sacae. Gonzales is also worse: -3.5 spd, -exp rank bonus, etc., and Treck is his only support for forever, so if Treck doesn't get used, he goes supportless for about as long as Geese, so he also becomes iffy. If Geese is used: C Geese, B(A) Gonzales. A in parenthesis because he's not actually going to reach that. It's 180 turns, and 10 chapters later already sees ch 22. If Geese isn't used and Treck is: C Gonzales If Geese isn't used and Treck isn't either: B(A) Gonzales not looking too good for Garret
He may do this occasionally, but not often because there are enemies in the way, and his stats with supports >>> his stats unsupported. It's not much of an issue. If there are few enough enemies nearby that Percival should run away, Cecilia isn't in much danger anyway.
Full crit is indeed > half atk, but that's not the difference here. It's half crit vs half atk (half crit + half crit vs half crit + half atk). Any difference between those is minimal at best. More importantly, Douglas blows and isn't getting used. He has good def, sure, but low res and low avoid, and he gets doubled all the time, so his durability isn't that impressive, and everything else about him sucks.
Whether or not Klein is better than Cecilia doesn't matter as he's still worse than loads of others who are getting on the team instead of him. He may be used for a few chapters if you just need an overleveled dude for some reason, but not as a permanent team member.
No, Dorothy sucks and isn't getting used. She has a terrible class that gets no weapons or crit boost or anything on promotion and can never counter melee, and she joins underleveled with crappy bases. Igrene isn't much better. Klein is better than her, and he's not good himself. Whether or not she's better than Cecilia doesn't matter as she's still worse than loads of others who are getting on the team instead of her.
And they're all utterly horrible, except Thany, who's just normal horrible, so not using any of them is by far the best option.
How good Marcus is compared to Cecilia has zero relevance. This is Cecilia vs Garret, not Cecilia vs Marcus. Dropping Marcus after earlygame for someone else >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing to use him, and Marcus is almost never next to Roy earlygame anyway because he's off making himself useful with his 8 move and good bases instead, so Roy's definitely not getting a Marcus support.
Indeed, after two hits, Garret's hp lead is pretty much gone, and three leaves Cecilia winning slightly, and that carries over after healing, since your units don't heal enough to fully heal Garret, so no, the hp lead isn't more significant. And that's only at the start, before growths, levels, and supports, all of which Cecilia beats Garret in. Go to liek the start of ch 20x, right when Garret's hp caps, before his hp growth starts being wasted, and assuming Geese gets used: Garret, 20/9, C Geese, C Gonzales: 60 hp, 5.4 res Cecilia, 20/15, A Percival, C Roy, C Saul: 38.4 hp, 19.5 res And yes, staves + class exp bonus makes Cecilia reach 10 levels in the time Garret reaches 8. After two hits, Cecilia wins by 6. Garret doesn't reach B Gonzales for +1 res (and 2 avo) until probably most of the way through ch 21. That helps, but his hp has also stopped growing. For the rest of durability, Garret starts with 2 more def, so he would win except Cecilia doesn't take counters. Then, back to ch 20x: Garret: 11.2 def, 46.1 avo Cecilia: 12.8 def, 65.5 avo and on top of that, she still almost never takes counters, so her durability >> his. Related to durability, Cecilia can always counter ranged, while Garret can't and has phail hit when he switches to a ranged weapon.
and he gets -10 along with -1 def against the things that double him
Things that don't happen don't matter. They're never on the same level.
fix'd Also, Garret has a 57.5% hit growth while Cecilia's is 102.5%.
And Cecilia has Aircalibur. And... Garret's hit with Halberd: 96.8 Garret's hit with Hammer: 86.8 There's only one Swordreaver in the game, it has only 20 uses, and both his supporters are axe-only, so he's never seeing that thing. And reavers don't double the weapon triangle like in FE7 anyway. You already included Killer Axe, nub.
Er... Try weapons they might actually use: Iron: 6 Hand: 15 Halberd: 45 Hammer: 40 Killer: 50 Silver: 50 Fire: 14 Thunder: 20 Elfire: 40 Aircalibur: 55 Minor indeed. It's about as minor as Cecilia having a much better shot at using Forblaze because of there being only one other S anima dude while lots of other S axe dudes exist.
Okay...? If they didn't, she would be clearly winning in funds. And I dunno what that rant about Fire having low mt is supposed to mean. The gap between Fire and Iron == gap between Aircalibur and Killer. Anything I skipped I already countered earlier. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Reikken vs Inui · Debates | |
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- Viewing Single Post From: Reikken vs Inui
while Cecilia is :feez:, so that's already a win for him. Why even bother continuing this debaet?| Theme: Fire Emblem Fusion - Green |
 9:42 PM Nov 25
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