Viewing Single Post From: Sentenal vs Crysta

Viewing Single Post From: Sentenal vs Crysta
*Crysta*	Oct 12 2007, 09:32 AM
yay for conformity! Posts: 10,652 Group: FEFF Emperor Member #443 Joined: October 8, 2005	Quote: Do you have any proof that he gets off his horse? Every time we ever see him, he is on his horse. And now you are just making things up, trying to make Kent look like a non-cripple. Is it too much of a stretch to assume that he may need to go pee at some point? Quote: He can use more weapons, honestly, I'd rather use a good trusty axe than a spear, anyday. Well, save special occassions. If I really need Hector to fight a sword user, Hector can use a Swordreaver without problem. Other than that, Axes are fine. Kent can use axes and then some. It's still an advantage. Quote: AS doesn't only factor into doubling, less AS also reduces avoid, which makes Kent more likely to take a hit. Less AS is never good. And is killing horses, like Paladins, not an advantage? Its just a fact that Hector is more effective in killing Knights/Generals, and Cavaliers/Paladins. Naturally, but I'm pretty sure neither of them have an evasion issue. Hector has supports and high CON to take care of that and Kent has high speed, supports, and WTA. The evasion lead Hector may have is very, very small. I think the AS lead is much more significant. When the Generals and Paladins begin to consistently appear, Hector's either stuck at level 20/20 or trailing behind in levels because he's just recently promoted. If they're at the same level, sure, Hector's better... but Kent progresses when Hector does not. When you reach Sands of Time, their statistics should look something like this. Hector at 20/4 HP: 41.8 Pow: 21.9 (31 damage x 2 w/Hammer and Halberd) Eva: 66 + 15 (WTA) Con: 15 AS: 15.7 Kent at 20/12 HP: 47.5 Pow: 24.5 (34 damage x 2 w/Hammer and Halberd) Eva: 63.8 + 15 (WTA) - 8.4 (Loss due to weight) Con: 11 AS: 21.2 (17 w/Hammer and Halberd) Who's better? Quote: And if Hector uses a Brave Axe? That turns into 23.5x2 (assuming Hector doesn't double normally. You see where Hector's CON advantage actually comes in handy? You won't use the Brave Axe all the time, granted, but against an enemy Hector wouldn't normally double, you use it. And with next to no draw back. As said before, Kent loses 5 AS from a Brave Axe. Fine. Lets give them a Brave Axe. ... All you do is take the above example and lower Kent's AS by one and his evasion by 2. He's still doing better. Hector will catch up, eventually, but that's going to be really frickin' late in the game. Quote: I hope this points out to you how useful Hector's CON lead is, and how much of an equalizer it is. When taking all circumstances into account, in reality it really isn't that big of an equalizer until they're at the same level (or close to it). Hector's promotion hurts him level-wise and during the early game Kent will be doubling quicker and for longer because there will be no AS loss until he begins to actually use axes and heavy weapons. Kent is effective all around. Hector's effectiveness is reliant on the Wolf Beil, which does have finite uses. So earlygame is debateable, midgame goes to Kent, and Hector has a lot of ground to cover in the lategame in order to beat Kent. Quote: You try and make it sound like Kent is always tons faster than Hector, the entire game. Kent may be faster. But if you look at Kent on level 10, and look at Hector on level 10, its about the same AS difference as it is now. So the only change is both have less CON, and enemies are weaker, and Hector is pwning shit with Wolf Beil, and Axes>Kent. Hector's AS is 8 at level 10. Kent's AS is 11 at level 10. Last time I checked 8 was not 11 and vice-versa. If you're using the Wolf Beil and Hector compulsively, it will kind of run out, too. Definitely by Chapter 20, which I assume is around the early/midgame break point. If he's not using it on everything, he's probably not doing better offensively. Quote: And, you make a point that against enemies that Kent can double attack, that Hector cannot, Kent is superior. While I've casted doubt on that, what shall we say about units that both can double attack? When both double attack, Kent's AS lead doesn't really count for anything. It comes down to who deals more damage. And with Hector's superior STR and Axes, Hector is obviously superior against enemies that both units double attack. lol late promotion = Kent level lead = even more AS and strength gap closing Kent has his own "equalizer", too. It depends what part of the game you're referring to. When Hector flounders behind because of his late promotion, Kent will eventually become stronger. Tag on the ability to double more and you have a formidible, if not better, opponent. Quote: And which enemies are more numerous? Enemies that only Kent can double, or enemies that both can double? I'm willing to bet enemies both can double are more numerous than the fast ones that only Kent can double. So, this would mean that Hector is superior against more enemies than Kent is, right? Which weapons are more numerous? The ones Kent can use without AS loss or the ones he can't? Regardless of the answer to the above, the quicker bad guys appear at the mid-endgame. We both know Kent wins during the midgame and how much longer it may take Hector to start doubling. He needs to promote in order to double anything with an AS in the double digits and we all know how long that'll take. Kent doesn't. Quote: Funds rank is easy in this game, so there isn't anything holding you back from using them. I've already given a situation where Hector's CON pretty much neutralize's Kent's AS lead. If Hector doesn't double, Brave Axe. Hector wins. If both double, no need for it, Hector wins when both double. Oh, I don't know, AS loss maybe? Using a weaker weapon is better if you double with it, as opposed to using a more expensive and stronger weapon but using it only once. There's technically nothing holding Kent back from using a weaker weapon better than Hector with a stronger weapon. If the AS loss isn't significant enough, then sure, there's nothing stopping you from using it. Unfortunately even then Hector's not winning all the time because of the level lead I mentioned. You also get the Brave Axe at Kinship's Bond. You're probably better off saving it until Hector promotes and he's not winning in the strength department by then. We're not going to debate the chapters where you can't even use it. Quote: The fact that Kent doesn't "need" to use them is irrelavant. Hector CAN use them, they are there to be used, and if you don't want to make the best use of tools given to you, well... I don't know how to help you. You made the same argument about Hector being unable to use lances. It matters roughly the same amount. I never said Kent couldn't use them, anyway. Quote: You also have Hector. And Hector is infinitly more superior against the Dragon than Kent. Hell, the chapter prior, Hector is still beasting, because of Armads. Whoopee? Quote: How Hector's offense suffers when he separates from Eliwood: -1 Atk. How Kent's offense suffers when he separates from Fiora: -2 Atk. How Hector's offense suffers when he separates from Oswin: -1 Atk. How Kent's offense suffers when he separates from Sain: -3 Atk. Clearly, Kent suffers more away from his partners than Hector does. Plus, when units have less MOV, its harder to get them separated, because they have reduced ability to move away. When you have more MOV, you want to use it, which makes you more likely to move away from your partner. Hm. Somehow I was under the impression that they gave the same power bonus. My bad. Regardless, Sain will be able to keep up like I said because he has the same MOV. Kent won't be moving away from him. And unlike with the tankers, Lyn or Fiora won't have to lose some of their mobility because their partner can't keep up and Kent is capable of backpaddling should the situation require it. A unit who can get around the battlefield swiftly have a bigger opportunity to take advantage of their supports than units who do not. It's not like Fiora lacks in that department, either, but that's usually not the support I gun for ironically enough. That's why I called her a spare. Quote: Guaranteed A and B from Oswin and Eliwood (pretty much, both are great units) >>> Guaranteed A from Sain, and maybe sometimes if you use Fiora a B. Read: Lyn. That gives Kent a lord unit and a fellow paladin for his partners -- not a bad set-up either. Quote: While it is a late promotion, are you forgetting Hector basically gets his own chapter to play catch up? He can close the level lead to a couple of levels with that chapter. Define a "couple of levels". I'm expecting at least a 6 - 8 level lead even with that chapter included. Kent is a frontline unit. He's not going to be lounging around while Hector is waiting to be promoted and one chapter isn't going to make all the difference. Quote: So you agree with 'Guns don't kill, people do', now? I never said I didn't. A gun without a person is just a gun. Quote: Narshen was crazy, and egotistical, but gay wasn't one of the things he was. Gay people don't have stats like his. ~~Dude, my fag is the sole reason why you won't face my guild in our own RPG.~~ Quote: From Kent's ending paragraph thingy: Kent- The Crimson Shield After Caelin was placed under Ostian rule, Kent became its steward. His dedication earned him the love of his people. So ya, Kent dies. Ostian rule is Hector, isn't it? I WON'T BELIEVE UR LIEZ Quote: Roy pwns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ii7haVMIJCQ In every game except his own. Quote: Kent is a bitch, before he is a Paladin. He's a paladin who's a bitch to kill... uh... bitch. Quote: If Sain is a manwhore, and Kent prefers supporting with Sain, what does that make Kent? ... what are you insinuating, sir? Surely you do not think Sain is... Quote: Too bad everyone else he supports with is like, Wind Their fault. Quote: And Hector's thunder support is a nice affinity as well. Hector's mostly their bitch. Quote: Sooner? Hector Eliwood is faster than every one of Kent's supports. And Hector has like, the entire game to build up his Oswin support. ... I was referring to the female supports. Quote: Now, with this being my last post, I get the feeling that the entire debate has been centered around only Kent's strong suit, offense. Not enough about Hector's victory, defense. First off, 20/10, Hector is better defensively than Kent. I have already said this before, but lets give the exact defensive stats to just show how much better Hector is. Hector: 47.2 HP, 27.9 DEF, 72 avoid, 17 RES Kent: 45.8 HP, 16 DEF, 60.6 avoid, 11 RES Okay, yeah. While offensively, there are arguements for Hector, just what can you say about this? Hecotr wins in every defensive stat. And this isn't just some minor few point AS loss, like Hector had in offense. This is 11 DEF, 12 avoid, and 6 RES. It's been centered on Kent's offense because it's just that h4x. And I don't wanna confront Hector's defense. XP Kent isn't horrible defensively, but making the case that it's better than Hector's is a stretch I simply cannot pull off against anyone with half a brain. The gap won't be that large because the level lead is still likely to be there (in fact, in my example Kent does have more HP and the Res lead is like 1), but Hector won't die. Kent probably won't either unless you suck at the game, but the probability is nonetheless higher. However, Kent's defense is not a weakness in light of Hector's defense. He can take damage and he'll do a good amount of dodging and countering to boot. His WTA manipulation gives him the edge over the majority of the enemy units in the game. He doesn't have a whole lot of trouble. Hector's offense isn't much of an issue despite it being smaller, either, until he's stuck at level 20 and waiting for a promotion. You're compelled against fielding a unit who doesn't grow, so neither his offense or defense helps you. When he does promote, Kent's far ahead, and this massive defense advantage Hector had is mostly gone along with his initial strength lead. Kent will be better again and it's only very late into the game when you'll see them at the same level. This debate encompasses the whole of the game, and Kent is showing up Hector in surprising ways during significant intervals (after Wolf Beil, during the promotion wait, and a few chapters in the endgame). He's prevailing during the meaty parts. F-ck that bloody dragon dammit. In conclusion: Quote: -Offensively, Kent is faster, and is better against faster enemies (unless Hector busts out a Brave Axe, then Hector wins). Yes. When you finally get ahold of it and when it's plausible to have Hector use it to it's full potential (i.e after promotion, when he's actually growing, or during the small time frame it takes him to get to level 20 unpromoted -- speed it up even more). Quote: -Offensively, Hector is stronger, so is better against enemies that both double. Only during the earlygame (when he doesn't DA consistently, but he doesn't really have to with that frickin' Wolf Beil). His AS will stay at 11.6 until he promotes, so enemies with AS over 7 are safe for awhile. Once he gets out of that funk, Kent has closed the strength gap and then some and has enough AS to wield these heavy weapons Hector covets whilst still having more AS even then. Quote: -Hector's supports are superior. Ugh. Fine, I'll give you that one. They're technically better units (at least one is, anyway), but Kent won't have trouble keeping up with them, so he's not losing the bonus. At least they're girls. ~~Your mom better watch out.~~ Quote: -Hector is MUCH MUCH better defensively than Kent is. Believe it or not... there's actually a point in time where Kent actually gets pretty damn close close and surpasses him in damage, effectively making him the better unit as a whole. They're not at the same level, but that's inevitable when you have Hector's promotion time. Quote: -Hector is the next Reagan. Like every other Republican presidential candidate, mirite? Kent's his own man. This is finally over. Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!
	~ Crysta, Zombie Queen

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