Viewing Single Post From: Jeigan vs Mekkah

Viewing Single Post From: Jeigan vs Mekkah
Big Boss	Oct 18 2007, 08:11 PM
Posts: 650 Group: FEFFer Member #890 Joined: August 19, 2006	Quote: Yeah, I'd love to be related to the mass murderer Alvis. And to the Fire Crusader Fala. People with holy blood are better fighters by nature. Quote: If by "the axe users" you mean the L1 ones, yes. Azel will kill two of those per turn - one on player phase, and one on enemy phase. Any more means a very high death risk, since Azel comes with NEGATIVE evasion so these guys have like 82 hit on him, and he gets 2HKOed. He also gets counterattacked by the Hand Axe Brigands and doesn't one-round them. Meanwhile Alec can take two hits of 12 without dying, and only gets hit 32% of the time...and he'll also be near Sigurd a lot which makes that 22%, and is also much more accessible for some Ethlin healing. Fortunately, this map doesn't have particularly large groups of enemies (until you head to Evans) so Azel is doing perfectly fine. When he joins, there is even a village and some forests he can use to his advantage, and his friend Lex can cover him from other enemies. Then in a few turns, he reaches Sigurd's group and can receive the leadership bonus and healing from Ethlin (plus, Ethlin wants to heal as much as possible, you are not limting her to heal just the mounted guys). That's a very minor advantage that Alec has just for a few turns. While Azel can survive perfectly fine, there is nothing Alec can do to save his offense. And what happens when you head to Evans, you ask? You have someone stay at the bridge while almighty Azel snipes from behind with his fire tome and Alec does nothing. Yet another advantage. Quote: Alec safely hitting stuff all the time for 10EXP a pop setting up kills for Noish/Fin/whoever >>>>> Azel's 60EXP on turn 1 and then needing healing from a church and never being able to face more than one enemy at the same time. Alec is overall doing more damage, gets hit less, takes less damage, helps out your team, AND makes fun of Ardan while he's at it. Azel having the guarantee of killing some enemies is already great. But you also mention handaxe dudes and I'm sure there are some other higher leveled enemies that Azel doesn't kill, so in that case he's doing the same as Alec; weakening so other unit gets the kill. But, Azel deals more damage, so that helps units with suckier offense like Ethlin and Arden to get the kills easily. Quote: Alec has gained more level ups both from Prologue and the arena since he is more durable and stands a chance against that faggot Shark. Azel is still dying horribly if you expose him to more than one enemy at the same time, Alec is dodging like a champ. Alec is also outrunning Azel all the way until you start running through the Spirit Forest, so he has access to more enemies. If Azel is even there in time to walk with the rest of the group, he can get hit by the brigands easily, who can walk over the forest peaks. Oh, and he gets massacred by both Ayra and Jamka and cannot run away from them, while Alec's Awareness and mobility HELPS you to recruit these two. Alec is not getting more experience during Prologue than Azel, since Azel is actually killing. As for the Arena, if Alec has gained a point of speed from his level ups, Shark still is faster than him, so Alec is gonne get Pursuit'd and raped by him. When the chapter starts, the mounted units take the lead, so the enemies are going to attack them, instead of Azel, who's at the back, waiting to rape during your turn and get covered by the cavalry. Once again, he's not dying while still hitting hard. You say Alec outruns Azel all the time and recruits Ayra? Sorry, but that's a bit contradictory. You see, while Alec makes a stop to lure the Isaacian swordfighter, Azel keeps advancing and starts fighting the group that was sent after Dew and Eddain, earning him even more experience and eliminating Alec's movement lead for now. Then when Ayra is recruited and Alec catches up with the group you are going to cross the Spirit Forest, where Alec's movement lead doesn't exist again and Azel is much more useful at the part that is only 1 tile wide, as explained before. Azel did better and got more experience. Quote: Azel is lucky if he gets to get a glimpse of Voltz' Free Knight army. His mobility is so terrible that he might just have to wait until you're going for Clement. The situation of these two versus Armors greatly resembles the earlier chapter brigands. The weakest Armor (47/0 HP/Res) can be one rounded by even a L4 Azel, however Alec can 2-round them with an Iron Lance with his 24 Atk hitting twice on 12 Def. But unlike Alec, Azel doesn't have to take cover on the enemy phase or get healed every time he attacks something with a Javelin. I grant you that Azel won't be able to fight much against Heirhein, but while some of your units are busy fighting the boss at Heirhein castle, Azel can catch up. Plus, Voltz's group also spends a few turns moving. More than enough for Azel to be already there. Oh, and speaking of Voltz's army, his Free Knights have 5 AS, so our level 10 Azel with Thunder (6 AS) one rounds them (they have 0 RES, yay). Furthermore, if Sylvia and Levin are already with the main group, and Sylvia dances for Azel, he can crush 2 Free Knights without receiving damage. If Alec receives the same treatment, he only kills one enemy and receives damage. Azel ftw. Now let's check the Armor Situation. The weakest one you mention has 47 HP, and, according to your samples, 12 DEF. If Alec has 12 STR and Iron lance he deals 24 damage per round. He isn't two rounding. Furthermore, Iron Lance kills his avoid, so even if he has WTA the enemy has a good chance at hitting. More so since there are Armors with different type of weapons (so if he equips a lance an axe armour rapes him) and if he equips a sword, he deals laughable damage. I wouldn't even call Alec more durable here, as he has to take more counters (2 at least in order to kill). Quote: They have like 37 hit with Javelin on L15 Thunder Azel in a forest and they 3HKO him. Pretty risky if you ask me. Generally if they go for Azel they will use their Steel Swords which have 57 hit on him and still 3HKO. If Elthsan's in range with his 5 star leadership that is pretty painful for him. In the meanwhile, if Azel is L15 here, we can safely assume Alec is promoted. He can use a Javelin and double them ranged, or he can use a Steel Lance and have 32 Atk, which 3HKOs if he's only L20, 2HKO if higher. Or he can just use a Steel Sword and deal 16x2=32 damage. Soo mediocre. Eltosian moves last, so his leadership is only an issue during your turn. Lachesis will likely be near Azel since she wants to approach Elto as soon as possible, and Sigurd will also be there, ready to pwn some noobs, so the enemies can have 17 and 37 hit with Javelin and Steel sword respectively, and even if he isn't receiving the bonus, the chances of many Cross Knights actually attacking him are slim, since you can strategically place Azel where he gets attacked by only 3~ of them as the forests limit the enemies' movement as well. Quote: Azel still dies pretty horribly to the pirates, while they pretty much have lol% hit on Alec. Can't see how Azel can fight at both Orgahil and Silvail anyway, he isn't exactly quick on his feet, and Aideen should be at Orgahil as soon as you seize Silvail because she wants to say hi to her sister. Cross Knights get owned -> Sigurd and some other units head toward Silvail, Azel makes his way to Orgahill -> Sigurd conquers, Azel is ready for action. Quote: Azel still dies pretty horribly to the pirates, while they pretty much have lol% hit on Alec. Can't see how Azel can fight at both Orgahil and Silvail anyway, he isn't exactly quick on his feet, and Aideen should be at Orgahil as soon as you seize Silvail because she wants to say hi to her sister. The pirates have horrid Skill. The ones with Iron Axes have about 50% hit on Azel, while the handaxe ones have 30% hit. That means that in order for Azel to die he needs to be attacked by a lot of them (3 of them need to hit for him to die). And, since the pirates have high HP, some units (coughAleccough) Azel is once again ideal for the sniping job Quote: Ok, so we'll be really nice by assuming that Azel promotes at this point. For this to happen, Azel would need 19 levels from Prologue to Ch3. We'll substract 4 for a little more than 1 level per arena (which is fair - Azel sucks there and never gets past the generic Swordfighters). Leaves 15, so a little less than 4 levels per chapter. You need about 4 enemies for a level, so that makes...16 times setting up some kill for frail Azel after which you have to protect him from anything else, times four chapters = massive loads of babying. That sounds like a lot of trouble to me! Eh...I honestly have no idea of what are you trying to prove here. Alec is never one rounding reliably, so he's the one who needs someone else (like Azel) to set up a kill for him. As for the arenas, both can't win against the swift swordmen, but in chapter 4, Alec won't be able to beat the Mage Knight in round 5, while Azel is perfectly capable of finishing the Arena here. If anything, Azel is winning here. Quote: Yes, Azel has a 1HP/4 Res lead on Alec at equal levels. Except Alec has had a level lead ever since he joined and it only increased every chapter. Alec can one-round any Wind Mage on Player Phase because he is hitting on their wetpaper Def, and then switch to Javelin to discourage any attacking towards him, or just stand on a forest and dodge. On Peggies, Alec can one-round all of them except Deetva with the Wing Clipper. And if Azel is talking to Tiltyu that would put him slightly behind on schedule compared to Alec, and if he's being paired to her he has to stay next to her and hardly have any fighting at all. omg stop saying he has a level lead...! Oh yeah, and the Wind mages, with their Elwind tomes hit Alec's wetpaper RES, forcing him to retreat or get targeted by a sleep staff and then proceed to die, and if he switches to Javelin, he has no chance of dodging their attacks, anyway. Now, Pegasus Knight thing. Level 22 Alec with Wingclipper has 46 attack on them, before substracting defense, so that would be 36 damage per attack and since the bitches have their slims swords equipped, thay are actually doubling Alec. And then, why should Alec get the Wingclipper? I could give it to Noish, who has no pursuit, so he needs to deal as much damage as possible or Beowulf, who is at a lower level and needs the experience more. Level 22 Azel with wind, on the other hand, doubles them for 21x2 damage, and he receives no damage thanks to attacking from a space away. So, when Alec has wingclipper, Azel wins, when Alec doesn't have wingclipper, Azel crushes him. Now, I don't know why Azel can't stay near Tiltyu and fight. Tiltyu has to fight, anyway, or your exp. rank suffers. In fact, Azel being there helps here to get easy kills, and therefore, indirectly help the exp. rank. Quote: Alec isn't getting hit by the Axe knights, Azel is and then he'll be in trouble. Meteor guys can be fugged up by Fury and the gap between Alec and Azel is like super small in durability there, I could go in exact calculations but judges are still recovering from my 60 page essay last time. Yes, Alec is being raped so badly by Horsesla...hey wait he has Awareness and access to the Wing Clipper, fuck them smile.gif You know who gets raped by Horseslayers? Azel. If he wants to benefit Tiltyu he should stay back with her and her 5 move. Tiltyu sucks anyways and should be killing Mountain Thieves or something for EXP. Well, first of all, Azel gets da thunder sword and raeps an Axe Knight during your turn while getting WTA. If he's liek level 25 and gets targetted, the axe knight has 34 hit, which is already not reliable, but, oh wait, you are moving your units at their fullest to reach Byron, so he's getting +20% avoid from Sigurd and Lachesis. In the same situation, Alec is dodging as well, but not killing as easily. A winrar is Azel. Durability gap against meteor guys is not as slim as you think. Why? Because they will always target Alec instead of Azel, and Azel can equip a thunder tome and get +20 Avoid. As for Wyverns, yeah, indeed, I made a mistake thar, Alec doesn't get critical'd. However, there is the fact that Alec may not be the Wingclipper user, and in that case, he loses offense horribly. Defensively, they have 84 hit, level 25 Azel (Wind) has 45 Avd + 10 from Tiltyu + 20 from Sigurd and Lachesis and get 75 avoid. And since you are near the desert and your units were limited in movement, it's really easy to keep all the group together, so the +30% bonus is definitely likely Oh, and Azel doesn't have to stay back to get bonuses from Tiltyu. The lover bonus has a 3 tile radius range. Quote: Alec clearly wins in durability always thanks to lighter weapons, WTC, hit and run and more often access to leadership. Azel sometimes wins in raw offense but cannot utilize this at all due to poor mobility early on and his ever-present fragilty. Alec certainly never dies unloved - the rest of the army loves him for his fighting ability. Azel is in love with a rather cute woman, yes, but being loved by everyone in the army > being loved by Tiltyu and getting yelled at for being a drag and a pansy. It is questionable if Alec truly wins durability as he has to take more counters. Azel's movement hurts him a bit, but he makes up that by attacking from away, so he has a 7 tile range before promotion, which is the same as other unmounted units like Ayra. Alec, however, while having higher movement, is never able to one round stuff like Azel does, so overall Azel w1ns offense, easily, more so in chapters 4 and 5, where he is promoted and has more Attack AND range than Alec (well, Alec can have as much range, but he has to equip a phail weapon). If the rest of the army loves Alec because of his fighting abilities, then the love they feel for Azel is beyond words. Plus, Alec spends the night thinking of ways of being mean to Arden, Azel spends the nights having love-filled sex with Tiltyu.
	^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan

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