Viewing Single Post From: Jeigan vs Mekkah

Viewing Single Post From: Jeigan vs Mekkah
Mekkah	Oct 20 2007, 11:32 AM
Posts: 667 Group: FEFFer Member #1,400 Joined: July 24, 2007	Quote: And to the Fire Crusader Fala. People with holy blood are better fighters by nature. You'd think people with Holy Blood would be competent enough to ride a horse, but apparently Azel doesn't do that until Alec showed him to do it for 19 levels. Quote: Fortunately, this map doesn't have particularly large groups of enemies (until you head to Evans) so Azel is doing perfectly fine. When he joins, there is even a village and some forests he can use to his advantage, and his friend Lex can cover him from other enemies. Then in a few turns, he reaches Sigurd's group and can receive the leadership bonus and healing from Ethlin (plus, Ethlin wants to heal as much as possible, you are not limting her to heal just the mounted guys). That's a very minor advantage that Alec has just for a few turns. While Azel can survive perfectly fine, there is nothing Alec can do to save his offense. And what happens when you head to Evans, you ask? You have someone stay at the bridge while almighty Azel snipes from behind with his fire tome and Alec does nothing. Yet another advantage. Oh yes +20% avoid for Azel. Now he's only getting hit 62% of the time, so his chance of dying from two attacks is "only" 38%. Lex has even less evade than Azel, and dies in 4 hits from your average brigand. He has no time to protect Azel because he's got that village to save in the northwest corner. Sigurd's group is moving to Jungby last time I checked to not find Aideen, where Ethlin should also go because there's more wounds to heal. Azel is not getting leadership until everyone reunites at Evans, and even there his durability is absolute shit. Alec's offense is saved by the fact that he can attack a lot more often: you can put him in the range of three axefighters at once and live, kill one and move on, while some retard like Fin or Ardan can deal finishing blows. Sorry, I'm not going to put someone on the bridge for -10% avoid and weaken things for Azel so we get an enormous queue and a lot of my units standing behind there doing nothing. Using everyone that period > using a shield for Azel + using Azel. Takes less time, too. Quote: Azel having the guarantee of killing some enemies is already great. But you also mention handaxe dudes and I'm sure there are some other higher leveled enemies that Azel doesn't kill, so in that case he's doing the same as Alec; weakening so other unit gets the kill. But, Azel deals more damage, so that helps units with suckier offense like Ethlin and Arden to get the kills easily. The only person Azel can set up kills for against a Hand Axe dude is Lex. Alec is doing it for anyone who wants it of Cuan/Fin/Ethlin/Ardan/Noish, and he is also not getting 2HKOed at a very high probability at that point unlike Azel. Quote: Alec is not getting more experience during Prologue than Azel, since Azel is actually killing. As for the Arena, if Alec has gained a point of speed from his level ups, Shark still is faster than him, so Alec is gonne get Pursuit'd and raped by him. When the chapter starts, the mounted units take the lead, so the enemies are going to attack them, instead of Azel, who's at the back, waiting to rape during your turn and get covered by the cavalry. Once again, he's not dying while still hitting hard. You say Alec outruns Azel all the time and recruits Ayra? Sorry, but that's a bit contradictory. You see, while Alec makes a stop to lure the Isaacian swordfighter, Azel keeps advancing and starts fighting the group that was sent after Dew and Eddain, earning him even more experience and eliminating Alec's movement lead for now. Then when Ayra is recruited and Alec catches up with the group you are going to cross the Spirit Forest, where Alec's movement lead doesn't exist again and Azel is much more useful at the part that is only 1 tile wide, as explained before. Azel did better and got more experience. Azel is killing two enemies around where he comes, and then maybe two or three more at Evans bridge or something. Alec is weakening nonstop and can also finish off whatever he started by himself throughout the ENTIRE Prologue. If Alec just gains a point of Spd in Prologue, he ties Shark by borrowing Ethlin's Slim Sword. If he fails to beat him he can always try again later in the chapter. Azel is never ever going to beat him. Alec can also beat the AxeArmor of stage 5, wooh. Alec could also beat Azel to getting to Aideen if he wanted to. Then it's basically crippling/killing one on player phase followed by getting raped horribly on enemy phase for Azel versus crippling one on player phase then crippling more on player phase without dying. You don't face the enemies in the space that is one tile wide, more likely by the time you're there Jamka is recruited (with Alec's help, likely) and most if not all enemies are dead. There's one or two that walk beside the 1-tile-wide space that Azel can get attacked by anyway. Again, Azel is 2HKOed at this point and Alec lives FOREVER. Quote: I grant you that Azel won't be able to fight much against Heirhein, but while some of your units are busy fighting the boss at Heirhein castle, Azel can catch up. Plus, Voltz's group also spends a few turns moving. More than enough for Azel to be already there. Oh, and speaking of Voltz's army, his Free Knights have 5 AS, so our level 10 Azel with Thunder (6 AS) one rounds them (they have 0 RES, yay). Furthermore, if Sylvia and Levin are already with the main group, and Sylvia dances for Azel, he can crush 2 Free Knights without receiving damage. If Alec receives the same treatment, he only kills one enemy and receives damage. Azel ftw. Now let's check the Armor Situation. The weakest one you mention has 47 HP, and, according to your samples, 12 DEF. If Alec has 12 STR and Iron lance he deals 24 damage per round. He isn't two rounding. Furthermore, Iron Lance kills his avoid, so even if he has WTA the enemy has a good chance at hitting. More so since there are Armors with different type of weapons (so if he equips a lance an axe armour rapes him) and if he equips a sword, he deals laughable damage. I wouldn't even call Alec more durable here, as he has to take more counters (2 at least in order to kill). For Levin to save the Bargain Ring, you need to seize Heirhein castle before turn 11, and it's possible to do it in 10. Even if Azel moves completely unhindered, he will still not make it there. The Free Knights move towards your group, and ideally you just keep rushing forward to the next castle for the tactics rating. Azel will probably get there by the time everyone is traveling backwards. Azel's not fighting there. 24 damage per round means 48 damage in two rounds, so that sounds like two rounding to me. "Taking counters" only applies to the player phase, where Alec can hit and run to hide behind someone else or step back into a forest anyway. Azel has no such treatment on player phase, and cannot resort to sniping during enemy phase. Quote: Eltosian moves last, so his leadership is only an issue during your turn. Lachesis will likely be near Azel since she wants to approach Elto as soon as possible, and Sigurd will also be there, ready to pwn some noobs, so the enemies can have 17 and 37 hit with Javelin and Steel sword respectively, and even if he isn't receiving the bonus, the chances of many Cross Knights actually attacking him are slim, since you can strategically place Azel where he gets attacked by only 3~ of them as the forests limit the enemies' movement as well. Whatever, Alec could stand on the fucking road and take 5 Javelins for 8 damage a pop on his 44 HP (or Steel Sword hits for 6 damage so he'd get...8HKOed) without taking any chances at all. Then you can let some other units (Noish I guess) finish them off for EXP. Alec also has the option of OHKOing any of them on Player phase with the Horseslayer, btw. Quote: Cross Knights get owned -> Sigurd and some other units head toward Silvail, Azel makes his way to Orgahill -> Sigurd conquers, Azel is ready for action. Silvail is a stone's throw away from the bushbush whereas the to-be-a-bridge to Orgahil is a far walk for Azel. Even taking the castle guards and Shagaal into account Azel probably won't be there in time. You should have people positioned there already for the Dragon Knight attack, who can also handle the pirates. Also, Alec fighting at Silvail vs Azel going on hike, which sounds more useful to you? Quote: The pirates have horrid Skill. The ones with Iron Axes have about 50% hit on Azel, while the handaxe ones have 30% hit. That means that in order for Azel to die he needs to be attacked by a lot of them (3 of them need to hit for him to die). And, since the pirates have high HP, some units (coughAleccough) Azel is once again ideal for the sniping job I'll take Jamka or Midir for that anyday since they are also there for the Dragon Knights, and Midir can hit-and-run to make room for more. Blocking with one unit and sniping with Azel also makes it a pretty long wait over the bridge, whereas multiple units ramming through the ranks allows you to get to Tiltyu and co faster. Also, Azel gets 2HKOed by Pirzarl. Quote: Eh...I honestly have no idea of what are you trying to prove here. Alec is never one rounding reliably, so he's the one who needs someone else (like Azel) to set up a kill for him. As for the arenas, both can't win against the swift swordmen, but in chapter 4, Alec won't be able to beat the Mage Knight in round 5, while Azel is perfectly capable of finishing the Arena here. If anything, Azel is winning here. Allow me to explain. For Azel to kill something on player phase, then not die on enemy phase, he has to be among the group, he needs an enemy he can one-round, and then the rest of the group has to stand around him so he is not attacked on enemy phase, where he also is not gaining any EXP then (unless he gets sniped, which is all the worse for him). Alec is not reliant on that one player phase attack for his EXP, as he can gain EXP just by dodging or surviving on enemy phase. Alec can indeed beat swift swordsmen. Azel can die to the Falcoknight in round 4, if not earlier, and the Hero Axe Warrior of round 6 with 106 Hit Hero Axe isn't pretty for him either. Quote: omg stop saying he has a level lead...! Oh yeah, and the Wind mages, with their Elwind tomes hit Alec's wetpaper RES, forcing him to retreat or get targeted by a sleep staff and then proceed to die, and if he switches to Javelin, he has no chance of dodging their attacks, anyway. Now, Pegasus Knight thing. Level 22 Alec with Wingclipper has 46 attack on them, before substracting defense, so that would be 36 damage per attack and since the bitches have their slims swords equipped, thay are actually doubling Alec. And then, why should Alec get the Wingclipper? I could give it to Noish, who has no pursuit, so he needs to deal as much damage as possible or Beowulf, who is at a lower level and needs the experience more. Level 22 Azel with wind, on the other hand, doubles them for 21x2 damage, and he receives no damage thanks to attacking from a space away. So, when Alec has wingclipper, Azel wins, when Alec doesn't have wingclipper, Azel crushes him. Now, I don't know why Azel can't stay near Tiltyu and fight. Tiltyu has to fight, anyway, or your exp. rank suffers. In fact, Azel being there helps here to get easy kills, and therefore, indirectly help the exp. rank. NOBODY on your team except Claude has enough RES not to get hit by the Sleep Staff, so that is a total moot point. You got Restore last chapter anyway, maybe use it? Not to mention you have Libro Aideen and Reserve Claude and who knows what on Lachesis and Levin. If Alec has his Javelin equipped he isn't getting targetted unless he's the only one in range, Wind Mages would rather go to Sigurd or whoever else has just his blade equipped. I've never seen a Pegasus Knight with Pursuit, so they're not doubling Alec, welcome to FE4. They also start with their Slim Lances equipped and tend to keep it against swordusers such as Alec, so he is doubling and raping them. You could give it to Noish, but then neither Alec nor Noish are one-rounding pegs, which is bad. Beowulf has Pursuit, Charge, Continue AND access to A-level swords unlike Alec, he's capable of raping pegs without touching the Wing Clipper. Azel is never one-rounding them. When Alec has Wing Clipper, he wins massivey offensively, and defensively (on player phase anyway) doesn't matter much when you got 32798 healers. If Azel wants to stay next to Tiltyu that's ok, but Tiltyu moves with a grand 5 move per turn, so you are raping your tactics rank not to mention your money resources from the villages by holding back just so Tiltyu can kill. Quote: Well, first of all, Azel gets da thunder sword and raeps an Axe Knight during your turn while getting WTA. If he's liek level 25 and gets targetted, the axe knight has 34 hit, which is already not reliable, but, oh wait, you are moving your units at their fullest to reach Byron, so he's getting +20% avoid from Sigurd and Lachesis. In the same situation, Alec is dodging as well, but not killing as easily. A winrar is Azel. Durability gap against meteor guys is not as slim as you think. Why? Because they will always target Alec instead of Azel, and Azel can equip a thunder tome and get +20 Avoid. As for Wyverns, yeah, indeed, I made a mistake thar, Alec doesn't get critical'd. However, there is the fact that Alec may not be the Wingclipper user, and in that case, he loses offense horribly. Defensively, they have 84 hit, level 25 Azel (Wind) has 45 Avd + 10 from Tiltyu + 20 from Sigurd and Lachesis and get 75 avoid. And since you are near the desert and your units were limited in movement, it's really easy to keep all the group together, so the +30% bonus is definitely likely Oh, and Azel doesn't have to stay back to get bonuses from Tiltyu. The lover bonus has a 3 tile radius range. Yes, gogo Thunder Sword Azel with 7 Str and therefore 19 Attack vs the 47HP/11 Def Axeknights, please take 3 rounds to kill them. ~_~ In the same situation, Steel Sword Alec does 17x2 damage, killing better than Azel could. What is Azel doing with the Thunder Sword anyway when it could be used to give ANY of your other sword users ranged attacks? At least I had a good reason to give Alec the Wing Clipper. Why is Alec targetted over Azel? You gave no really good reason. Anyway, Meteo from their 11 Skl has about 82 hit, and Alec has about 50 avoid to live of and survives two of them. You're never targetted by more than two. 404 Big Deal Not Found If Alec doesn't have Wing Clipper there is also the chance that he's borrowing Hero Lance and doing 17x4 = 68 damage on their 58 HP. Fury is picking off them Meteor Mages anyway. Or he does two-rounds with good old Steel Lance, setting up a kill for whoever needs it. Yeah, then try doing -10% for desert tiles for 65 avoid. Then maybe another -10% since Tiltyu couldn't keep up with the main group for getting Byron and then rushing to Lubeck, or perhaps your really really big group being together doesn't guarantee everyone gets +20% from Lachesis and Sigurd. All in all that would average about a 25% chance for Azel to take 40 damage in one schwoop, whereas Alec laughs with like 9 per blow. Quote: It is questionable if Alec truly wins durability as he has to take more counters. Azel's movement hurts him a bit, but he makes up that by attacking from away, so he has a 7 tile range before promotion, which is the same as other unmounted units like Ayra. Alec, however, while having higher movement, is never able to one round stuff like Azel does, so overall Azel w1ns offense, easily, more so in chapters 4 and 5, where he is promoted and has more Attack AND range than Alec (well, Alec can have as much range, but he has to equip a phail weapon). If the rest of the army loves Alec because of his fighting abilities, then the love they feel for Azel is beyond words. Plus, Alec spends the night thinking of ways of being mean to Arden, Azel spends the nights having love-filled sex with Tiltyu. If Alec ever refuses to take counters he can use a Javelin, which gives him a 10 attacking range, compounded by the common roads he makes use of. On short term thinking (i.e. attacking one enemy then closing your eyes), Azel seems better, but then Azel has to be shielded from all sides on enemy phase to not risk dying. This not only makes Azel a liability in your squad, but also allows Alec to damage more things on enemy phase with a smile on his face, overall contributing more oomph to your team. Chapter 4 and 5 have been and will be discussed plenty, but just for some liabilities of Azel: he is glued to 5-move Tiltyu, he loses offensively against pegs and Wind Mages and is hardly better defensively, he gets raped badly by Horseslayers whereas Alec is not. The rest of your army is tired of taking hits for Azel all the fucking time, including Alec. If Alvis didn't do it then they would have killed him sooner or later. During the nights, if he's not hitting on Sylvia, he and the others plot on how to explain Azel he is no longer welcome to the army. Just as they had thought of a way to do, Azel's fucking half brother came in and Falaflamed them all, including Azel. Tiltyu survives and flees, then gets tortured to death and there's no Azel to help her. In fact, Azel isn't guaranteed to bang Tiltyu anyway since there's always Levin for longer Holsety abuse and Lex for Elite and Ambush, but I don't feel like spending more text on that.


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