Viewing Single Post From: Jeigan vs Mekkah

Viewing Single Post From: Jeigan vs Mekkah
Mekkah	Oct 21 2007, 07:54 AM
Posts: 667 Group: FEFFer Member #1,400 Joined: July 24, 2007	Quote: Azel is good enough to not need a horse for the first 19 levels. Alec gets a horse and he is still not impressing anyone. Dude, no. Actual gameplay wise, a horse is CRUCIAL in FE4 or you get left behind in the rush for villages, tactics and other objectives. Fun-wise (which this paragraph was originally intended for), the horse + turbant combo impresses everyone, even those who have a horse already. Quote: And why should Lex be the one who gets the northwest village? He dies in 4 hits, and he's getting attacked by a couple brigands on his way there, plus the one raiding the village. And Ethlin won't be near. It is better to have him work with Azel and then give him the village northwest of Jungby. And Azel is fully capable of reaching the main group in Jungby; the distance between his joining position and Jungby isn't that big. Ok? Azel still does his job. You have everyone advance, with the mounted units at the front and Azel sniping from behind. At the end, the result is the same. Lex gets there before anyone else does. If you play your cards right he only needs to get attacked once by the Hand Axe Brigand before he starts attacking the mountain thief. This mountain thief also gets to attack only once, because he's busy burning houses to attack on enemy phase. He'll be getting to Ethlin sooner than Azel is, and there's also two churches nearby. For Azel to get to Jungby, it takes 6 turns of completely unhindered movement if he takes the shortest way, which is right through a few brigands near there as well which he'll have to maneuver around or something. Your other group can move after attacking and has 6 people and doesn't have to heal in churches. They are so getting there a lot earlier. If all goes well Azel attacks once or twice near Evans, and he's not even one-rounding things anymore since these are L5 Brigands with 40HP/0RES, Azel needs 2 extra points of Mag for that (he comes with 18 Atk). He's in the same weaken-or-finish boat as Alec here except he can't frontline, and there's more bows and Hand Axes here too. Quote: And why is that? Azel can set up kills for everyone else when he joins the main group. He can set up kills for Lex when he joins, and then not any until everyone's at Evans, at which point everyone except Sigurd is "setting up kills" on most enemies. Except Azel is in more danger than Alec because of more Hand Axes, bows and he can't afford to be exposed on enemy phase. Quote: Azel can also kill the boss at Evans, since he has shit RES and get good experience from that, making up for the amount of experience Alec got by weakening. Also, why should he borrow the Slim sword? Ethlin would have to seel it at half price and then buy it back at full price, which is bad (let's remember that her offense sucks so she's not getting a lot of money from the arena) and Alec still doesn't have 100% chance of winning that battle. Yes, he could, but he isn't actually doing it because he is luring Ayra, so Azel gets more experience there. Also, you are not using Alec to lure Jamuka, even if Alec has gained a point of speed, defense and 2 HP, Jamuka doubles and kills. Not to mention Jamuka's other multi-hit skills have decent chances of activating and that there are other enemies there. Ayra is the one who's being used to lure Jamuka. I guess you could say that with Slim sword he doesn't get doubled, but I already explained my sentiments on taking that from Ethlin, and, once again, Alec is not 100% safe. Enemies move really slow in the forests, so you still fight some of them at the 1 tile wide spaces, where Azel clearly wins. Anyone can kill the boss at Evans, Azel doesn't have a monopoly on him or anything. If Azel is weakened he dies from Hand Axe so it may not be the safest choice. It's not like killing one boss makes up for Alec fighting much more enemies every turn, and fighting for longer, since there's no bonus for killing a promoted enemy or a boss in this game, just the higher the level, the more EXP. I can't see why Alec cannot borrow Ethlin's Slim Sword. She comes with 4000G, she gets some money after Prologue for keeping Jungby intact, she gets at least 2500G from the arena, she can get villages and Cuan can give her money since his arena results are pretty good. The FULL Slim Sword costs 3000G, and it likely costs less since Ethlin also countered a few times in Prologue. Over something as minimal as this, there is no money problem in this game. Who says he's luring Ayra? You. I say he could lure Ayra, or he could beat Azel to fighting Brigands, or do it together since Azel needs protection (he still gets 2HKOed). Alec can do two things, Azel can do one, and Alec outperforms Azel at what he does there too. You don't even need Alec per se to lure Ayra since you can stand JUST out of her range, it's just handy. You can just use Fin for it since he doesn't need much EXP outside of the arena and an occasional kill. Jamka has 25 Atk, L7 Alec lives through two hits btw with 1HP left, and the other enemies have 27% hit on him if they're even there (Jamka moves faster). Again it's just something Alec could do sometimes that Azel never ever does. I've seriously never ever had anyone other than the two bordering Brigands alive when I arrived at the passage. I know personal experience is frowned upon but no one of your group moves faster than 3 spaces (and that's just Cuan and Sigurd) and these brigands start almost IN the passage. Quote: You are horribly underrating Azel's movement. The Free Knights have to spend like 4 turns moving to reach your group, plus the initial 11 turns, Azel is capable of joining in that battle. Yes, he two round the weakest ones, but there are several armors with more than 48 HP, and against the ones that have axes, you are not using a lance. He is clearly not two-rounding as reliably as you make it out to be. Yes, taking counters only applies for player phase, but since he is receiving a counter his durability is now not that much better than Azel's. I don't know what you mean by "Azel has no such treatment on player phase". He can attack, and then arrange your formation so he doesn't die during enemy phase. In Alec's case, he had to run away. The result is apparently the same, both dealed damage and then search protection, except that Azel dealt more damage. It seems some visual aid is in order! Here is the map without enemies And this is how it's gonna work. 1 = where Azel stands on turn 1, provided there's nobody there already, which is possible because not everyone can move their maximum range yet 2 = this is where Azel stands on turn 11, when Heirhein is seized, keeping this pace of 6-7 movement per turn on the road 3 = this is where your mounted groups, including Sigurd and Alec and Ethlin and stuff are hanging out around that time 4 = this is where the Free Knights start 5 = this is where you can engage them easily, but you can also move along a little further and trigger the Amphony guards The Free Knights don't spend 4 full turns to reach your group if you rush, which you should. There's also the chance that you're only taking 10 turns for Heirhein, which is only logical because that saves you some gold from the villages. About Armors, let's clear up the fact first that the VAST majority of armors are from Heirhein and Amphony. Azel is never fighting Philip's Heirhein army, we estabilished that. He might be there for one turn of Amphony. Maybe he fights the one lonely Armor from McKeily (with Javelin!), but there's ballistae there who will target Azel. Maybe he makes it to Augusty with a lot more Javelin Armors and 3 ballistae, but that is still a horrible situation to be in. Alec can hit, and then run out of the range of the rest of the Armor groups, and he doesn't require 4 units around him like Azel or a complete wall in front of him to survive. Plus he doesn't die as quickly to ballistae. The offensive end result is that Azel did more damage in one turn, the defensive result is that Azel is a defensive liability whereas Alec is not. And that Alec is usually :there: and Azel is not. Quote: Except that Alec's offense with the Javelin sucks, he can even miss sometimes when enemies are on forests, while Azel has better hit and attack. And no, I'm not giving Alec the Horseslayer over Finn, who is better and this is the last First Gen. chapter he has to gain experience. Ohno, watch out for the dangerous Crossknights with their -16 evade with a Javelin, or -6 if they attack with Steel Sword when Alec has a lance. Javelin Alec has 38.4 + 60 = 98.4 hit. If he stands on the road as I propsed, then so will the enemies (unless you put him in a dumb position) and they will lose another 10 evade. Sigurd and Lachesis are also there according to you. Worst case scenario is that an enemy is on a forest when Alec is not getting Sigurd/Lachesis bonuses, in which case he still only misses like one out of ten times. Quote: Azel can indeed reach Orgahill in time because people like Alec have suck offense and can't kill the guards at Silvail fast enough. Plus, you may take an extra turn or 2 than expected killing Shagall, because he can be gay and activate big shield. Plus, Sylvia can helpp Azel to move a bit faster. Then by the time Silvail is captured and there are no more enemies around there, things look like Alec moving vs Azel fighting at Orgahill. Which sounds more useful to you? There is a grand total of 10 castle guards, and besides "people with suck offense" (who all need only 2 rounds anyway) you have the Iron Cutter, you have Holyn's Moonlight Hit, Ayra's Meteor Sword, Sigurd's general hax, Levin, the Thunder Sword, the Light Sword...these guys hardly take any time at all. Sylvia can also help 4 units of your group heal/attack again instead of helping just Azel, that does sound more useful to me. Also helps taking down Shagaal who only has a 20% chance of negating one attack anyway. It takes Alec only 4-5 turns with some Sylvia help to get back to Madino/Orgahil since he's promoted and has 9 move, Azel certainly takes longer, so Azel is useless for longer. Quote: Yeah, you can use Jamuka and Midale. You can also use Jamuka, Midale and Azel and get better results. Also, you only do the bridge strategy for a couple turns, to soften the enemy group a little. If you just go all out, you take the risk of having some unit die. Also, why should you let Pizarl attack Azel? Jamka can't hit and run like Azel, so both can't snipe unless you want to put one of them in front of the line, which just gets you stuck. Or you could put Azel in front, and if he's one rounding shit then Pizarl will come to him quickly. Not to mention he has -10% avoid on the bridge. Quote: Okay, Azel kills something during the player phase and gets, say, 30 exp. Alec needs to weaken 3 enemies to get that much experience and receives more damage. Plus, you can let Azel get targetted by one enemy during the enemy phase and get another kill. Overall, the situation looks better for Azel. Yeah, let's ignore the fact that Azel cannot always reach an enemy on player phase and cannot always one-round every single enemy out there. Alec is, during most of the player phases of Prol/Ch1 not receiving damage at all because he avoids axes easily with forests and Sigurd and stuff. Alec can weaken one enemy on player phase for 10EXP and then only needs 2 on enemy phase to compensate, and then he can only gain more if he gets attacked more or finishes off something. If you can get Azel targetted by just one enemy and no one else then you'd have to gear your entire setup around Azel or something, because enemies move in groups and if one enemy can reach Azel, then so can like 3-4 others most of the time. Quote: Yes, but Alec gets targeted over Azel because has lower RES. Forcing Edain to waste a turn using Restore<not forcing Edain to waste a turn using Restore. Plus, Edain has low movement so she may not be able to reach Alec and he will get targeted. Furthermore, moving Edain to the frontline, where Alec is, means she can get attacked later. If the peggies equip a lance, then Alec gets less hit (and they have high avoid) so it's still not safe to assume he always one rounds. Plus, thanks to WTD he wouldn't be dodging. Tiltyu has the lowest movement on the team, so you should give her the Leg ring so she can move fast and get kills. If you worry too much about your Tactics rank, you may end up raping experience. Sleep Staff has failsafe accuracy on anything with lower RES than the caster's MAG. Azel and Alec are equally likely to get targetted and equally likely to get hit. The best defense against the sleep staff is hurting one of the Wind Mages so the boss uses Libro instead. Aideen can always Restore your units anyway without being in danger, it has 10 range in this game. L24 Alec has 41.4 (Skl) + 70 (Clipper Hit) - 20 (WTD) - 22 (Peg Evd) = 114.4 - 42 = 74.4 hit = 55% chance of hitting both and therefore one rounding, which > Azel's never one rounding. Or 70% with Sigurd or Lachesis in there. Or 88% with both. Tiltyu comes with 5000G, she needs 15000G more to be able to buy the Leg Ring. Azel can't give her money since they're not lovers yet. She gets 8000G from arena's and from keeping castles in Ch3 intact maybe, but she'll need a Dew donation or something to buy the Leg Ring. Plus other people want the Leg Ring: Sylvia for dancing much more effectively, Claude/Aideen for more healing range, Fury for getting to villages more quickly, Sigurd for quicker seizing...also, Tiltyu gets raped by Wind Mages and Pegs pretty horribly. If you worry too much about EXP, you might rape tactics or survival or combat. Quote: During your turn, Azel rapes one of them with Elfire/Ranged thunder sword, and during the enemy's phase he has the thunder sword and doesn't get hit. In 1 turn, he kills 1 enemy and weakens 1. Alec just kills 1. Azel did better. I didn't give a good reason? Azel has higher RES and can equip a thunder tome to get more evade. That wasn't good enough Now Alec is getting the Hero lance? No thx. I'd rather have Finn keep it or have Fury pass it dow to Fee and get to use it since chapter 6. Alec is not passing it down. It's a waste giving it to him. Already explained about Tiltyu. She gets the Leg ring to make things easier on your experience rank (which is the hardest rank) so she has high mobility and can keep up with the likes of Azel, Lachesis and Sigurd. I see you neglected to give a reason why Azel gets the Thunder Sword when other people want it. So when Azel doesn't have the Thunder Sword he loses 20 Evade that Alec has guaranteed and keeps on killing to make sure nobody else who needs kills gets them, while Alec just keeps on weakening. Azel is at the risk of dying and stealing kills, Alec weakens without dying. Alec did better. You said "they target Alec first AND Azel can equip a Thunder tome" but ok, Azel lives against Meteor and so does Alec still. Fin keeping it is damp if he's paired with Lachesis since he'll lose it, and if he's not paired with Lachesis I'd still rather put it on Fury so I have it for longer. Fin only needs to weaken things for Leaf in Ch7 anyway, he gets plenty of EXP out of the arena. Fury passing it down is entirely possible since Alec can just sell it later. Used weapons don't cost much to swap. I like how you made this point about the Hero Lance, yet gave Azel the Thunder Sword which he is so not passing down if you assume he's with Tiltyu. Tiltyu might need to hand in the Leg Ring at this point if she even had it (countered earlier) since I want to give it to Sigurd -> Celice so he can seize quickly before he promotes. Quote: I pity Alec, who can only get a slut like Sylvia. If Azel doesn't get Tiltyu, he can get Lachesis, and his sn will be a decent magic sword user, while his daughter will be a better healer, or he can get Fury, who is pretty hot. Also, Azel probablu put more resistance against Velthomer's Rotten Ritter. Alec died against the Meteors of the regular mages, since his RES sucked, while Azel could have died against a Holy weapon. Alec is clearly not better than Azel. The turbant only worked for Hardain. Sorry. Sylvia is so not a slut. Alec bangs anyone he wants, that's why he's always smiling. Azel is a flasher, you should've noticed that when he opened his cape for the first time against Generic Brigand #1417. Azel/Lachesis is an awful pairing that deprives the kids of really good Str. Nanna heals plenty with Relive (which she comes with) and doesn't even break 17 endgame Mag. The only good magic swords are Wind and Thunder which they don't have a monopoly on, other swordies want range too, especially Patty. Fury is "pretty hot" but never wants Azel over Claude - Volcannon/Relive Sety <<< Elfire/Elwhatever/Lightning/Reserve Sety with better stats and B level staff Fee. Everyone handed in their weapons or Alvis would have died to the Tyrfing. Nobody could put any resistance. Speaking of resistance, Azel has only 4 more than Alec. Pretty sure nobody cares. The TURBANT is what prompted the Firemages to stop attacking Alec and let him escape. Azel died at the hands of his own brother when he tried to flash everyone with his homocape. Turbants rule. Alec rules. Alec wins.


Jeigan vs Mekkah · Debates