Viewing Single Post From: Paperblade vs Inui

Viewing Single Post From: Paperblade vs Inui
Paperblade	Oct 25 2007, 12:31 AM
Posts: 76 Group: FEFFer Member #1,424 Joined: August 10, 2007	Quote: Inui posting on the last day, oh noez. Paperblade posting super late. Quote: It's a shame this has little relevance to first generation rankings. Jamuka is one of those units that easily gets to level 30 since he can clear every arena he encounters and kills practically everything he fights. Any benefit to the Experience rank that Fin has comes only from his starting at a lower level than Jamuka, since Jamuka can get tons of experience from the arena that doesn't take experience from anyone else. Little relevance to first gen rankings? There's no such thing as "First Gen" or "Second Gen" rankings, just an overall FE4 ranking, and Fin is win for the most difficult one, EXP. Fin gets access to 8 Arenas, Jamka gets 4 (assuming you have Edain Warp or Ethlin Return in Chapter 1). That's DOUBLE the access, and getting 29 levels total vs. 24. And if Jamka is getting "tons of EXP" from 4 Arenas, then Fin is getting even more from 8. Quote: Having Fin follow Lachesis forever means Fin isn't doing much since he has to be next to her almost the entire time he's there in order for this pairing to happen. Jamuka can give you good children with Brigid or Edain without having to do something like this. Not that any of this matters... I think you missed the part where Fin doesn't NEED to be doing much because of his ridiculous access to EXP. He's in 9 chapters and gets 8 Arenas, he can afford to miss 2 chapters to get that pairing, because 7 chapters and 8 arenas is still more than any other character in the game. Quote: Jamuka shouldn't be getting attacked on the enemy phase except by other bow users and magic units that have to attack him at range. Even if he is attacked a few times on the enemy phase, the damage to the Combat rank is extremely minimal compared to how well he does on his turn. He's one of the few units that can easily one-round sturdy armour knights and bosses early on. And the beauty of it is that he doesn't take a counter. Ayra could one-round an armour knight, but she takes a counter, and her poor defenses will make her get raped. Her crappy LUK makes her Evd very unreliable against lances and unreliable against swords. I don't see how Ayra is relevant to this discussion, and I like how you ignored Javelin users (of which about 66% of the Lance Armors in Chapter 2 are), Axe Armors (5 in Chapter 2 compared to 6 Sword Armors), and Bow Armors (admittedly rare, at only 3). Also, Fin has the potential to one round them all with the Hero Lance at a 100% rate (which is more than Jamka can say, because even with all his hax skills, there's still a decent chance he won't Crit/Charge/Continue), although this is assuming we aren't going for his Lachesis pairing. . . But like I said, he really doesn't need to be, because he's already haxxing EXP Rank, which is really a more difficult rank to get. And Big Shield with 15+ Defense and 55+HP >>> Jamka's chances of one rounding Jamka at 16 has 15 Skill and 30 Attack with 14AS, meaning 34% Continue and 15% Crit. 39% chance of Charge against the lowest level General in Chapter 2, dealing 14 damage a hit, which is a 4HKO. So let's see, 100% Hit rate. . . Oh, and the boss has a 14% Big Shield chance. It doesn't seem very reliable. Is there a chance? Yes. Well he likely bring the boss to half or below? Yes. Does this matter? Not really, since most bosses can be 2HKO'd anyway. Quote: Yeah, he's got a horsey and can move around a lot. Can't deny that. Jamuka, however, is better at fighting. Fin can move around all he wants, but he's not killing things better than Jamuka is. Level 5 Fin with a Hero Lance 4HKOs and doubles (and with Continue, that means 4 hits) any Armor except for the Level 14 Axe/Bow Armors at Anphony and the Sword Armors. 10.2 Strength + 1 from Cuan talk + 15 Might frm Hero Lance is 27.2 Attack, truncate to 27. The Level 14 Sword Armors are before he gets the Lance and he can't double anyway because Swords are hax. So the second highest is Level 10, with 54HP and 13 Armor. 27-13 is 14, 14*4 is 56. Pew pew, Fin wins. At Level 10 he can one round the Level 14s. 100% of the time. Even on enemy phase (except for the 3 Bow Armors at Anphony). Quote: Soz, onto some actual negatives about Fin... He has a 0% chance of one-rounding things until he gets the Hero Lance. He has almost constant WTDA and no ranged attacks until you get him a Javelin. Fin hardly needs the EXP, and he's doing minimal fighting because it's not necessary for him to be doing so, since he still owns 3/4 of Chapter 2 with minimal EXP. Also, there's a Javelin that sells in Chapter 1 IIRC, and Axe-user Avoid sucks so bad he could probably use it effectively (most have about -20 Avoid, which compensates for WTD) Quote: He relies on Prayer to have any durability at all, which isn't good compared to Jamuka simply relying on his good stats and not taking counters. Since Fin is using his movement to rush forward for Tactics, he's less durable because he has to fight on the enemy phase, and when he enters combat he's not one-rounding unless he has the Hero Lance. Well, Lance Armors do exactly enough damage to knock him to 1HP, which makes him basically invincible for a turn, which then lets him run back to Edain or something (she wants the EXP anyway and probably isn't in range). Is he losing out on EXP? Yeah. Does it matter? Not in particular. Quote: Fin doesn't wtfraep arenas like Jamuka, so he has to fight more in the actual game to gain levels, so he takes more experience from others even with his generation two usage. I don't see why you say this is some advantage anyways. Jamuka can just take a larger amount of experience from the first generation units and Fin can take a smaller amount from both generations, and they're both taking the same amount. Fin rapes Chapter 2+3 and 7-Epilogue's Arena easily because of Hero Lance hax. Also, the First Gen gives far less EXP than the Second Gen, because of less and lower level enemies as well as less Civilians to rescue (the Second gen gives liek 18 and the First Gen only gives 6), which means that Fin is better off helping out here and there in the First Gen, getting high enough to be able to help Leaf (I'd say about 15, although it really depends on what you're passing on to Leaf and Nanna). Chapter 1 he can Clear Rounds 1-4, which is about a level. Chapter 2 he can clear up to Round 5 without the Hero Lance, then clear rounds 5+6 with it, which is about a level and a half, and then another level. Chapter 3 1-5, MAYBE 6 at the end with the +3 Str and +1 Def villages (as he would be knocked to Prayer activation Range with the +1 Defense at 15 and then win). About 2 levels, then an extra half level if he completes Round 6. Chapter 7 is raep. About a level and a half. Chapter 8 is raep, but he might not beat Round 7. 2 levels if he beats it, 1 and a half if he doesn't. Chapter 9 is easy. One and a half levels. Chapter 10 he might not beat Round 7. A level and two thirds if he does, a level and a third if he doesn't. Epilogue, probably loses around Round 5 for a level and a half, if he doesn't, he's getting two and a half. So that's. . . about 13-15 levels from the Arena. Jamka's getting about 11, assuming he doesn't get unlucky and lose (he has a reasonable chance to lose to 4's Level 30 Big Shield-using Volcano-casting Baron, since it has a 30% chance to block his stuff and 2HKOs him plus it has a Skill Ring). So Fin needs about 1500 EXP, over the course of about 315 turns. Jamka needs 1300 EXP, within about 140 or less turns. Oh noes, Fin needs to kill something every 5 or so turns, and he has mounted movement and good attack. Meanwhile, Jamka needs to kill something every 3 turns, which sucks for him because he isn't mounted and downtime in the First Gen sucks (running to Mackily in 2, conquering Silvail and such in Chapter 3, and waiting for Mahnya to die in 4, running through the desert+waiting for Cuan and Ethlin to die in 5). Fin only has to deal with half of those timesinks for his EXP, and they don't even matter that much because that's time to build Fin/Lachesis up. Quote: Level 1 Lance Knight HP: 32 - 70% STR: 9 - 30% +5 MAG: 0 - 5% SKL: 8 - 40% +1 SPD: 10 - 30% +1 LUK: 8 - 50% DEF: 7 - 30% +2 RES: 0 - 5% +3 MOV: 8 Pursuit, Prayer Iron Lance: lol crap and super heavy ftl Fin joins before Jamuka, but he's not turning any heads when he joins. Almost every enemy in the first two chapters gets WTA against him, which is -20 Evd and -20 Hit for him. That's terrible when it's basically against everyone. He has Prayer, but that's not guaranteed, especially with the constant WTDA. He has a horse and Pursuit, and that's about it. He joins with a crappy weapon, even. Oh no, a hit loss against enemies with -24 Avoid. Even with it, Fin has >100 Hit. The only one that matters is the Avoid loss. It's worth noting that Fin's attack is better than most at this point, since Noish and Lex and Cuan don't double, Alec and Midayl do less damage, and Arden just fails (as does Ethlin, but Ethlin can heal). That leaves Azel, who has even lower durability than Fin and less move, and Sigurd, who is broken. Is his durability weak? Yeah. Is he still 2 rounding every generic axe user, which is more than what anyone who isn't Azel or Sigurd can say? Yeah. Quote: When Jamuka joins, he's wtfmassiveraep. Level 6 Archer HP: 36 - 90% STR: 11 - 50% +5 MAG: 0 - 0% SKL: 14 - 10% +2 SPD: 14 - 30% +2 LUK: 4 - 40% DEF: 9 - 30% +2 RES: 0 - 5% +3 MOV: 6 Killer Bow: 14 Mt, 100 Hit, 3 Wt Pursuit: Attack twice if his Atk Spd > enemy Atk Spd, which is almost always given his good SPD stat and lightweight Killer Bow. He's way faster than almost every enemy ever, so he should always be doubling things. Continue: Attack twice in a row at Atk Spd + 20% activation. So, it starts off at 31% and ends up at 40%. Duel: Activates 2~20 rounds of combat when HP is above or equal to 25 at unit's Atk Spd - enemy's Atk Spd + HP/2 % chance. Critical: Attack with a critical at SKL = % chance. Starts off at 14% and ends up at 18%. He attacks twice pretty much every time, and has three skills stacked on top of both of those hits. Even against the tanky armour knights of Chapter 2, he'll have a very high shot at one-rounding them. Two shots for Critical, Continue, and Duel all stacked up. H4x. His offense is ridiculous. He has a very terrible SKL growth, but a very good base and a very accurate weapon. Wait, the unit that joins 2 chapters later 5 levels higher has superior base stats? What are you trying to prove? Jamka's offense is better for that half chapter after Jamka joins and before Fin gets the Hero Lance, since Fin at Level 5 is more reliable than Jamka against those dreaded armors. Quote: Jamuka's offense >>>>>>>>>>>> Fin's. Fin can be like...level 10 and still lose. Jamka's offense for roughly half a chapter is better. There's still one a half more chapters after that where they're both there. Quote: Also, durability. Fin is often reduced to low HP and relies on Prayer to survive, while Jamuka just has tons and tons more Evd from using a way lighter weapon and having much more SPD and almost never taking counters. Jamuka also beats Fin in HP by a decent amount. 0.5 moar when each at level 6, and then Jamuka's 20% superior growth will kick in and make him win by more and more as the game progresses. Lucky for Fin, he lolleaves before the HP gap gets big. Good thing Prayer tends to give massive Avoid boosts, and most enemies don't hit hard enough to negate it. And Fin's 10% better Luck growth is about as useful as Jamka's 20% better HP. Quote: Also, DEF. Fin loses that by 0.5 consistently. Oh, Fin gets +1 from a conversation with Cuan, but still loses in HP. So, now he wins DEF by 0.5 consistently. Yesh. Quote: He has absolutely no concrete durability win, and has tons less Evd. He relies completely on Prayer compared to Jamuka, who just relies on his being amazing. 1HP Fin getting swarmed and dodging every attack and owning everything on the counter > Jamka one rounding one enemy a turn Quote: The first generation is much nicer to unmounted units except for Chapter 2, but his being mounted doesn't matter at all in Chapter 1 and actually gives him less movement when Jamuka joins since everyone is in forests. Chapter 2 isn't kind to unmounted units, but Jamuka gains levels from raping two arenas anyways. Chapter 3 is nicer to foot units, and he's definitely doing better as usual. And then they get out of the forests, and Fin quickly overtakes Jamka while running to the next castle. And then the chapter ends. Then in Chapter 2, Jamka spends the first half of the map trying to catch up, then more fun backtracking, fight swordies, then Jamka gets left behind again as we charge Shagall. Chapter 3 is about equal. Quote: Jamuka's dropping bombs on everyone while Fin is just poking them with a twig. Deadliest twig I ever saw. Quote: Jamuka looks really bad-ass. He has no problems killing anyone, and his temper and his power back that up. He'll fire a missle at you and you'll just instantly die. Or he'll fire like twenty missles thanks to his skills, actually. Good thing none of them will hit because he has no skill. Quote: Jamuka is royalty, and since his jerk brothers and ancient father all die in Chapter 2, he becomes the King of Verdane. Fin is a commoner. Point for Jamuka. Fin is fit for shining Jamuka's boots and cleaning his bow. Jamka's adopted, and Fin is pretty much the godfather to the Prince and Princess of Lenster, plus he's probably gonna get king of Agustria or something because Lachesis wants him and Sigurd decided to kill off everyone in power. Verdane is the crappiest country in Jugdral anyway (seriously, it's a country full of bandits, it wasn't even founded by a Crusader), being royalty there isn't worth much.


Paperblade vs Inui · Debates