Viewing Single Post From: CATS vs Sentenal

Viewing Single Post From: CATS vs Sentenal
*Sentenal*	Nov 12 2007, 12:37 AM
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat. Posts: 15,632 Group: FEFF Emperor Member #1 Joined: May 16, 2005	I'm going to try and keep quoting at a bare minimum. First, we are talking about Lowen vs Serra from the get go. You basically are saying its healing, and all the nice stuff that comes long with it, verse attacking. But, this is false. The game isn't that simple. Lowen has plenty of advantages over Serra, from the get go. You already covered attacking, so I'll just mention that briefly. Are their units who attack better than Lowen? Sure. Is Serra one of them? lol no. Is Lowen's offense terrible? No. Lowen has but lances and swords early on, for lots of WTA control. He also has good CON for using heavier weapons, like an Iron Blade. Attacking itself is more important than healing. You can heal a unit all day, but healing won't complete chapters. Attacking will, and Lowen attacks. Point in Lowen's favor. Now, other advantages. You say a statistical comparisons between these two is meaningless prepromotion. Well, offensively, yeah. But defensively, a statistical comparison is perfect valid. Lets just see how durable these units are. Level 9 Serra. 21 HP, 3.2 DEF, 33.2 avoid. Level 2 Lowen. 23 HP, 7 DEF, 17 avoid. Lowen also has swords to counter the earlygame axe users, so WTA can factor in to make Lowen even better defensively. So, Lowen has a good 4 DEF and 2 HP victory, over Serra's 16 avoid victory (1 avoid if Lowen has WTA). Serra's dodge isn't even reliable yet, so Lowen is easily more durable than Serra here, even with her level lead. So, that brings me to my next issue. Supports. All of Serra's supports take 5 million years. Lowen has quick supports with a plenty of people. Marcus, Eliwood, Rebecca, and eventually Harken. You claim Rebecca's use is questionable. Why...? Sure, she is an Archer, and doesn't start incredible. But, later on, she gets one of the best offense in the game, and is one of the most durable units in the game due to avoid. Its perfectly acceptable to have her fielded. And even if she isn't, there is Marcus and Eliwood. Serra can support lots of people, but do they really want her? You say Serra can get Hector B Oswin B. Well, yeah, she could. But the supports are all so slow. 66 turns for Hector C, and 71 turns for Oswin C? Thats kinda slow. Actually, its really slow. And might not even exist. First, yes, they might take each other. If they do (and its a fast support), that means they are getting tons more DEF and avoid that much earlier, rather than waiting for Serra. Hector also has Eliwood, Matthew, and Florina as possible options, on top of Serra. All of which build faster. Oswin has Matthew, Priscilla, (Hector), and Dorcas, all of which are faster as well. So, yeah, Serra might get those supports. But will she all the time? No, of course not. They have plenty of other options, options which are faster. Does Lowen have this problem? I think not. Lowen gets full avoid from all his supports. Eliwood gives 1 DEF. Rebecca and Eliwood give Lowen full attack. Serra, if she gets supports, gets full DEF/avoid. However, as I said, that is a pretty big 'If'. Maybe she can get Oswin B. Maybe. Anyway, point being, since Lowen is pretty much always getting supports, and Serra isn't, the avoid gap is closing pretty fast. And then if we factor in Lowen's 40% DEF growth, Lowen is getting plenty more durable than Serra. So, other advantages Lowen has? Lets talk mobility. Lowen is mounted, and has 7 MOV. Need a village that needs to be saved? Lowen can ride faster than most to save it. Have need of some tanking on the other side of your army? Lowen can ride over there and tank it. Is someone dangerously injured, and no healers around? Lowen can rescue and run away. Of course, more MOV makes him able to engage enemy units easier as well, since he can cover great distances to attack an enemy a foot unit couldn't, or can move farther than some to get on some terrian. So, if it comes down to Healing vs Attacking, Defense, and Mobility, I'm taking the latter. Healing is good and all, but Offense/Defense/Horsie>>>. Now, about the level gap. First off, I'm such a novice at FE7, I got no idea what Nils abuse or Lundgren abuse is. 'Abuse' throws up a red flag, and once I find out what those things are, you can expect something about it in my next post. I also see Lowen gaining levels faster than you make it out to be. One, Lowen being level 2 means that he is going to be gaining EXP pretty quickly. Plus, when Lowen kills something, he gets like 30 exp or something. Regardless of exactly how much he gets, fighting in combat will net Lowen more EXP than Serra healing for 10 exp or whatever every round (not even every round). Serra may help the EXP rank more, but Serra helping the EXP rank isn't maintaining her level lead. Anyway, I'd rather compare them 20/1 Serra to like, 15/0 Lowen. Lowen (Eliwood/Rebecca B): 34.7 HP, 14.9 STR, 10.9 SPD, 13.2 DEF, 51.3 Avoid Serra (Oswin/Hector C): 29.5 HP, 12.5 MAG, 16.6 SPD, 8.8 DEF, 60.6 Avoid So, Serra already got her promotion bonuses, and she is really only winning in AS. Lowen is still more durable. And Lowen still has good WTA control, which he can use to completely nullify her avoid lead. Then, you say Serra's level lead increases here? Because Serra now can attack and heal? Well, yes, she can. She can't do both at the same time. If she heals someone, she can't get EXP from attacking. If she attacks something, she can't get EXP from healing. She can't go out there like Lowen can, and tank tons of enemies to build EXP like Lowen can either. So no, Serra isn't increasing her level lead here, no way. Yeah, so lets get Lowen promoted now. 20/1 Lowen vs 20/6 Serra. Lowen (Rebecca A/Eliwood B): 41.2 HP, 18.4 STR, 13.4 SPD, 17.2 DEF, 63.8 avoid. Serra (Hector/Oswin B): 32 HP, 16 MAG, 18.6 SPD, 11.6 DEF, 77.6 avoid. Lowen now has complete WTA control, so Lowen can easily kill that avoid lead Serra has. Lowen is STILL more durable. Lowen gets axes now too. I don't have any AS samples, but Lowen's offense is better on units that both double/neither double, which I'd wager is more enemies than just Serra doubling. Plus, effective weapons. But wait, you want Serra to get a body ring? Well, yeah, she would benifit from one. But she isn't the only one. I bet your Pegasi would like to not lose SPD from lances. Those are the top contenders for that stat booster, but there are plenty of units who would love to not get AS penalities from weapons. Will Serra get it, when tons of people in your army want one? It isn't guaranteed at all. So, AS lose from Serra's weapons help bridge the AS and avoid gap more. Yay. Oh yeah, Lowen has 8 MOV now. Lowen can almost go anywhere, and do anything. He is one of your most durable units, and also one of your most mobile units. So, saving villages, riding around teabagging things, rescuing units, all that sort of things Lowen has over Serra. My post seems pretty long-winded, but I'll sum it up. Lowen attacks before promotion, Serra does. Lowen>>> Lowen is ALWAYS more durable than Serra. Lowen>>> Lowen is mounted/has more MOV than Serra, so horsie Lowen>>> Lowen's is much more likely to get fully supported, as opposed to Serra. Lowen>>> Serra can heal, and Serra has some staves she can use. Not greater than sign all the shit Lowen can do.


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