Viewing Single Post From: Mekkah vs Inui

Viewing Single Post From: Mekkah vs Inui
Mekkah	Feb 10 2008, 03:34 PM
Posts: 667 Group: FEFFer Member #1,400 Joined: July 24, 2007	First of all, I have a huge problem with the levels you posted. You propose that those are the levels for the start of Chapter 4, yes? Well, here's the exact levels of my party when I played the game trying to use every possible unit in order to not phail in the Experience rank. I'd object too if Jamka was being thrown into every corner possible. Anyway, what you just posted is indeed personal experience at its maximum. There is no defined levels of course where someone's at, but I highly doubt you actually totally S-ranked the game with these settings. Voltaire, however, did, so I usually take his word for what should be the case. And his case is clearly different, not only for Lachesis: Dew is going to be leveled and promoted sooner or later, for one (it might sound crazy for you, but you need that to S-rank), Ardan needs to steal as many levels as he can when possible by borrowing the Hero Sword and taking on brigands when he's still near them, etc. No offense, but I'm not taking what you say and going along with it just because it was your playthrough. I could take one of mine where I tried to S-rank EXP like you did and reach an opposite conclusion. That said, let's do some maths. Lachesis joins on turn 4 into a chapter that probably takes around 40 turns. Then she has Ch3, during which she should probably get another 30 or so. If she'd heal with Live every turn, she'd get 10.5 levels right there. Then she can probably clear Round 3 of both Ch2 and Ch3 arena's thanks to having all the time of the world to try and having a Prayer Sword, each can net her a level each or so. This alone puts her at 16. Now all she needs is 4 levels from borrowing the Elite Ring for 2 seconds, using the Return Staff, fighting during Ch3 and competing in the Ch4 arena together to promote at the begining of Ch4. That is very managable...if you disagree, you have no hope of S-ranking FE4 ever, since it's hard as shit. And it's worth it. Giving Lachesis resources to get her to promote her sooner is worth it more than favoring others with that much. Her promotion bonuses, for one, are massive. +7 Str, +7 Skl and +7 Def on top of +4 Spd wtf. Becoming mounted is not only +3 move but also moving after attacking AND switching weapons AND keeping up with Sigurd. She also crucially gains Pursuit. Basically, her promotion is one big event to work towards and it helps your team in 478924798 ways. Giving her resources to help her promote is like putting EXP into a unit with 200% all around growths as opposed to one with 100%. She hardly even needs fighting or taking team EXP to get there, too. I mean You also have a good chunk of durable units that don't need healing a lot, like Sigurd, Alec, Noishe, Lex, and Arden. Rofl, like you're ever using Ardan for frontlining beyond Prologue/Ch1. Ardan is much better off staying with Lachesis to make him good for :something: rather than just sitting there doing nothing. He adds nothing to your team at all other than huge tactics delays. Don't make me laugh. "but personal experience" Sure, sort of. What else can we go off when it comes to a rank like this? There's generally no surefire way of getting an S that's used every time the same way, and it's not like every move is predicted and predone for getting these ranks. There you go. I used maths to get to Lachesis' level, but I'll obviously gladly adopt your 21 Jamka for further comparisons. Lachesis wins even more now, lol. I mean, we don't have these standards for GBA FEs either, but nonetheless we apply something like 1.3 levels per chapter for some reason. My reasoning can't be too farfetched then. shameless copypaste of previous debates Jamka can try to keep up with Lachesis in Ch4 and Ch5 on player phase offense as far as his movement allows it, but that's it. And it's largely overkill, as Lachesis can one round anything but a few bosses in Ch4 and Ch5. The exceptions are far and far inbetween: Lamia, Reptor, Langbart, that really is about it. Jamka might maybe win against Lamia on player phase due to his skills, but on enemy phase he's a sitting duck, and the others rape both of our units...no wait Lachesis can technically Iron Cutter Langobart into oblivion. For Ch2/Ch3, She's not contributing on the main field in Ch2, but that's canceled by Jamka taking away from the EXP pool of others, and then overridden by him being a total complete useless fucknut on enemy phase as well as not doing anything at all before Amphony anyway due to being unmounted. All that babbling about Lachesis failing at combat can suck my dick, but lol at a nice attempt of a competition argument by trying to make Aideen look like a better healer. Lachesis isn't fighting for the most of these chapters, but she's not in danger either due to staying out of enemy range. She is, as far as the rest of the team is concerned, completely neutral. Jamka has positives and negatives - positives being quite hax player phase offense, negatives being...in the negative on enemy phase except against enemy bows, and consuming field EXP. Hence why I said all he has is being win in the arena in Ch2 and Ch3 as a clear positive. Anything else he does has cons. The only real negative for Lachesis is that what she's doing is wasting her own money, but since she has plenty of it herself that's no trouble at all. Even worse, she has those knights following her around, and they all have to survive in order to get the Knight Ring. She has to be held back due to this. But, it's no loss to your team. Ethlin's a mounted healer, and Edain and Dierdre have bad mobility but they're still there. You also have a good chunk of durable units that don't need healing a lot, like Sigurd, Alec, Noishe, Lex, and Arden. Hahaha. Aideen needs to go and get the Bargain Ring, and she can't keep up with the Heirhein rush at all. At turn 11 (when the village for the Bargain Ring is destroyed), she is where Azel is standing on that same turn - somewhere around where you face the Heirhein field army, I'm sure you remember the image. She's not doing any crucial healing. Neither is Deirdre...not that she'd help, she doesn't even come with a staff, so she'd have to buy someone else's. To top it off, neither of them do jack on enemy phase, Deirdre because she always dies and never dodges, Aideen because she doesn't counter. So Aideen is stranding herself on the Bargain Ring and never gets back to the last two castles in time. Or you lose the Bargain Ring, whatever. Don't pretend you're not short on healers. Lol at units not requiring healing - you realize they're being outnumbered by Armors, and that Cuan, Lex and Sigurd are the only people actually putting dents in them, do you? You realize nobody is dodging them reliably due to avoid being kind of terrible at this point (what with no constitution and all lances having 80 hit)? Lachesis healing in Ch3 will be welcome. He's always good because he starts good and has growths that exist. Jamuka: 255% Lachesis: 215% Jamka on enemy phase is the epitome of useless. At least Lachesis isn't HINDERING the party there since she's not in enemy range at all - she's back at a castle. Total growths, what? Are you joshing me? Deirdre: 290% Jamka: 255% Fin: 270% Deirdre > Jamka > Fin?? As I believe I've mentioned before, overall averages are what are important, especially when Lachesis' bases aren't used for a large portion of the time. I may as well put Lachesis' promotion bonus against Jamka's and therefore declare Jamka's trip to 20 isn't worth dipshit. And since Lachesis owns Jamka at equal levels promoted and beyond even when Jamka is given a level lead, she wins a fair comparison. You don't have to use her in order to use those items at all. Lachesis can get 0 EXP and you can get those items and weapons anyways and just give them to better units. Even if Lachesis gets 0 EXP, she has these items in her inventory and nobody else does until Lachesis sells them, which gives her a bunch of gold to buy things with. And if you don't want to go through the tedious trading process in this case (so that you don't have to hand in gold for it), then Lachesis indeed has them for her own use. As far as Earth Sword is concerned, since you have to fetch it from Elthsan who is in the middle of his Cross Knights, training Lachesis obviously makes it easier to get that. Either way, this isn't a GBA FE, you have to use everyone. If Lachesis has 0 EXP, you're not going to S-rank. How can you compare not contributing at all to not countering on the enemy phase and using EXP? At least when Jamuka is taking EXP he's killing stuff and making you progress, and then leveling up and getting better. Lachesis is apparently doing nothing at all, and then levels up sometimes and gains 2.15 stats. That's horrible. Here, I'll lay it out schematically for Ch2 and Ch3. Jamka + kills stuff on player phase, which helps you progress + kills stuff on player phase, which means he grows stats and levels + arena gives money and stats and levels - kills stuff on player phase, which means others don't get that EXP - doesn't counter on player phase, which does the opposite of helping you progress: it slows you down - uses resource (Killer Bow) which needs repairing - requires shielding, hindering other units' flexibility and progress Lachesis + heals and gains stats and levels + does arena to a lesser extent to get money and stats and levels - uses resource (healing staff) which needs repairing Btw, I'd wager that Lachesis consumes more EXP than Jamuka with regards to how much they take from the team. Jamuka clears arenas for huge loads of free EXP, while Lachesis healing takes EXP from Dierdre for one chapter, Ethlin for two chapters, Edain forever, and Claude, Fury, and Levin later on. Not that Jamuka consuming EXP is a bad thing. He's helping you finish the game and then getting stronger from it. There's about an endless supply of healing in the game, and nobody else wants to tap from Lachesis' source of healing (beaten up Ardan/whoever). Ethlin is going along to heal necessary wounds then disappears. Investing in Deirdre is a waste, she can't promote, she can't fight in Ch3 and she doesn't exist in 4 and 5. Aideen has been discussed - she can Warpspam even if she doesn't have anything to Relive. For Levin and Fury, well, by the time they are promoted Lachesis is too and she can do the same arena trick as Jamka as well as fight and use about any wand anyway to allow them to select whichever wand they please. Note how this is a game with a lot of people with near or even over 100% HP growth, and usually pretty high enemy accuracy. There's nearly always something to heal for everyone. Also, huge lulz @ Lachesis being a good healer. "Lachesis L20 Master Knight Mag: 8.9" Yeah, okay. Most shortsighted thing I've ever seen, beating "Lilina is bad, Cecilia is too, but Cecilia doesn't need a Guiding Ring". Obviously, Magic is the only stat that exists when healing (Clarine is evidence of this). Lachesis can use Recover if needbe. Relive on her lets her heal like 30HP already which is plenty. And Lachesis is a lot better at fighting and staying alive than any healer you have at this point, plus Charisma makes people in her direct surrounding better. She can run around healing and healing and healing and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. You have to kill things in order to finish the game, and you have to do tons more killing than healing. Fighting is tons more necessary, so don't even pull "healing utility is better" or some shit. Are you kidding me? For Ch2 and Ch3, she does indeed not help your progress, but she's not hindering it either. In Ch4 and Ch5, she is :better: than Jamka at everything - better at fighting, Jamka can't even heal or be Charismatic, and she can use Restore for those dumbass Sleep Staves, as well as Libro/Reserve for wtfsuperlongrange, and Warp/Return to get back to your home castle after killing Levin's first brother, etc. Healing utility wasn't even touched upon this, now it makes Jamka look even worse.


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