Viewing Single Post From: Beta-Kraid and Ghor vs Eltoshen and Nintend-Fan

Viewing Single Post From: Beta-Kraid and Ghor vs Eltoshen and Nintend-Fan
Barst	Feb 19 2008, 03:23 PM
Like I said before... I am perfect. Posts: 1,100 Group: FEFFer Member #1,241 Joined: May 5, 2007	Quote: Nailah is at level 33, and Tibarn is at level 31… yet he already has the superior stats, with even more room to grow. And since their growths are essentially the same, Tibarn will maintain those leads, and widen the gap even more when Nailah runs out of levels to grow. Also, let's not forget that 1 point in each stat basically equals 2. This turns Tibarn's lead into a bigger lead. The only stat Nailah is notably superior in is Luck, and that doesn't double. ...So? When they're both transformed, Tibarn has 2 more HP, 2 more Str, 2 more Skl, and 2 more Spd at base. Nailah has 6 more Mag, 6 more Luck, and 6 more Res. Neither of them should ever die or not one-round something the other will. Both of them are really doing equally here in terms of combat. Quote: …okay, so neither ever dies. So let’s look at what they’re giving to the team. Like you mentioned, Tibarn has Pavise, and at base level, it’s activating nearly half the time. (48% to be exact) As far as skills are concerned, he’s also got Savior for added rescue utility, plus Canto, which Nailah lacks. Also, he’s got 4 authority stars when Nailah only has 3, so the other allies are benefiting more from Tibarn. Tibarn doesn't die if he has Pavise. He doesn't die if he doesn't have it. What, exactly, is Pavise doing for him? Sure, it may have a very small chance of helping out very late in the game. But by then, you'll probably have given it to someone who was actually getting something out of it and will continue to get a significant benefit out of it. Once it's off him, which it will be, it's not a plus for him at all, because if the scroll is equipped back on him, it's the same if it was equipped on Nailah. Savior can be useful, but it isn't a point for Tibarn, as is explained later in this post. As for authority, it only applies to commanders. Tibarn's applies during 4-2 and 4-5 whether you use him or not, so it's not like using him will benefit the team any more in some way. Quote: What does Nailah have that Tibarn doesn’t? Well, pretty much just Glare and lolGuard. So Tibarn’s skill set is easily more beneficial to himself and others. Guard can be very helpful to weaker team members, so there's nothing to lol about it. It's more helpful to the rest of the team than Tibarn's Pavise, certainly, and while Savior can be useful, as I said above there's more about why it isn't a point for him later in the post. On top of that, regardless of capacity, units can only have 6 skills in this game. To fit a new one, Tibarn has to take off either Pavise or Savior, while Nailah doesn't need to remove anything. Seems Canto has actually managed to become a disadvantage for Tibarn. Quote: Nailah has a bond with Rafiel, while Tibarn has bonds with all 3 of the herons. Now, we’re definitely bringing Reyson to the final chapter, since he’s got the best chanting ability, and the best durability of the 3. That means that 5 out of Nailah’s chapters won’t have Rafiel in them, so Nailah’s bond is rendered useless for the final. Meanwhile, Tibarn will be using his regardless of what heron you choose; Reyson is in his first two chapters no matter what, and you want him in the final as well, so for all seven of Tibarn’s chapters, he’s putting his bond to use, while Nailah’s only matters for 4 chapters. When, exactly, will a bond support with a HERON be put to use? Herons make units next to them move again, so it's unlikely that Nailah or Tibarn will stay next to them if they're ever next to them at all- Nailah and Tibarn both are supposed to charge at enemies and kill everything anywhere near them. That's definitely not the kind of situation a Heron should be in. Quote: As you've mentioned before, they're virtually unable to die, so this point is basically pointless and redundant. Funny that you say that right after attempting to argue against that point. Hypocrisy ftw? Quote: Nailah may have more chapters, but Tibarn is easily more useful in his 7 chapters than she is in her 9. Tibarn already has superior stats, so he’s killing more efficiently. He also has more mobility – flying + immunity to terrain penalties + canto is h4x. He’s getting to enemies and tearing them up faster than she is, so he’s performing way better in Part 4 than she is. He can also rescue units that need help and receives no penalties thanks to Savior, and his authority stars give better boosts than Nailah’s do. You can't kill more efficiently than consistent one-rounding. There's almost nothing Nailah won't one-round, and Tibarn certainly isn't gonna kill those few enemies any faster. Nailah has a point of Move over Tibarn, and takes no penalty from terrain either. Tibarn's ability to fly gives him similar mobility to Nailah, not far more. Canto on a unit like him is as much of a detrment as a benefit because he's unlikely to need it, and it just fills up his capacity. Here's that point about Savior I mentioned earlier. Skills can, of course, be reassigned, but while it could be seen as more efficient to leave on Tibarn, his only claim to it is that it doesn't take up capacity on him, which doesn't matter, nulling the entire point. Even you remove his two removable skills, he has 55 capacity and two skills to fill it with. No matter what those skills are, he can fit them and have plenty left over, so there's no reason to necessarily leave his skills on him. Quote: Yeah, she’s about 10 billion times stronger than the enemies… and she’s also getting way less EXP. Even people like Sothe have started to gain more than 1 EXP per fight by this point, so Nailah is just vacuuming the EXP that people like Nolan and Jill so desperately need. Total Exp gain doesn't matter if there's no Exp rank. Say Nolan would get 20 Exp from a kill. Jill takes the kiill, and Nolan doesn't get the 20 Exp. Nailah takes the kill, and Nolan doesn't get the 20 Exp. No difference. Quote: Plus you’ve got plenty of other godly units, so Nailah is by no means essential. The BK is arguably better since he has a ranged attack, and you want to bring him to 1-F for the Lehran event. Sothe and Volug are also both mandatory, and both are very strong fighters as well, plus you’ve obtained people like Zihark and Tormod by now, so Nailah isn’t a God among mere mortals… not at all. The Black Knight has far worse mobility, despite his ranged attack, and it's not like having one god is better than having two. As for the other units... Nailah (LV33) HP: 66.0 Str: 34.0 Mag: 10.0 Skl: 46.0 Spd: 38.0 Lck: 35.0 Def: 32.0 Res: 26.0 Sothe (LV5) HP: 36.2 (-29.8) Str: 20.4 (-13.6) Mag: 4.8 (-5.2) Skl: 23.2 (-22.8) Spd: 21.8 (-16.2) Lck: 17.6 (-17.4) Def: 14.8 (-27.2) Res: 10.2 (-15.8) Volug (LV18) HP: 51.9 (-14.1) Str: 17.3 (-16.3) Mag: 3.75 (-6.25) Skl: 19.7 (-26.3) Spd: 21.3 (-16.7) Lck: 15.7 (-19.3) Def: 13.3 (-18.7) Res: 7.45 (-18.55) Zihark (LV7) HP: 32.2 (-33.8) Str: 18.4 (-15.6) Mag: 6.4 (-3.6) Skl: 25.0 (-21.0) Spd: 25.8 (-12.2) Lck: 12.6 (-22.4) Def: 14.0 (-18.0) Res: 12.4 (-13.6) Tormod (LV7) HP: 35.0 (-31.0) Mag: 17.8 (-17.2) Str: 14.1 (4.1) Skl: 16.9 (-29.1) Spd: 21.1 (-16.9) Lck: 14.5 (-20.5) Def: 12.7 (-19.3) Res: 14.9 (-11.1) ............ Out of all the characters you listed, the only win is Tormod's Str beating Nailah's Mag (since the direct offensive stats would be reversed in comparison for a Mage being compared to a physical unit)... and his Str is way past the amount he'd get something out of anyway, so it doesn't matter. All of Nailah's stats other than Mag are far over the corresponding stat for each other unit, even assuming they somehow get to that kind of level, which isn't happening anyway. Not to mention Nailah's large advantage in mobility over all of them except Volug... Nailah is completely raping here. Far more than Tibarn can ever say for his chapters. Quote: First of all, weak units aren’t a problem at all on this team. You’ve got Ike and Titania on it for sure, and plenty of other fairly strong units are available, but that part is player’s choice. Secondly, this is Part 4; you know what units you’re using, and by now, most of them have nearly finished their growth, and if there’s a weak one that isn’t fully leveled yet, then you WANT them to get attacked so they can gain EXP, so either way, Nailah isn’t needed to protect the team. Screw you Nailah, Ike and Titania are h4x. Nailah (LV33) HP: 66.0 Str: 34.0 Mag: 10.0 Skl: 46.0 Spd: 38.0 Lck: 35.0 Def: 32.0 Res: 26.0 Ike (LV20/1) HP: 53.4 (-12.6) Str: 28.9 (-5.1) Mag: 6.9 (-3.1) Skl: 32.0 (-14.0) Spd: 28.1 (-9.9) Lck: 16.7 (-18.3) Def: 26.5 (-5.5) Res: 12.3 (-13.7) Titania (LV20/10) HP: 47.8 (-18.2) Str: 33.6 (-0.4) Mag: 15.9 (5.9) Skl: 31.1 (-14.9) Spd: 29.5 (-8.5) Lck: 24.2 (-10.8) Def: 25.5 (-6.5) Res: 21.8 (-4.2) While Nailah isn't raping quite as much as in Part I, it's still unquestionable that she's winning here. Nailah's ability to protect your weaker units is far from useless. There are several characters you'll want to be protecting, one in particular being Rafiel, and with things like darkness hiding the advancing enemies, the ability to shield them from being attacked is very important. Nailah, being your best unit in that area, is definitely very useful because of that. Quote: Pretty much anyone on your team can rape the enemies in this chapter; what makes Nailah so special? She doesn’t have anything special that really makes her stand out, unlike what Tibarn can do in his chapters. Raping enemies? Y halo Ike and Titania, and co. Nailah is nothing special, but who’s competing with Tibarn? Elincia? Raping enemies when the team doesn’t >>> Raping enemies when the team can do that without you. Also, mobility. Tibarn tears up his enemies faster, since he can get there thanks to awesome flying powers. Nailah has no answer to this. In fact, those cramped quarters you mentioned are only slowing her down, whereas Tibarn can just fly over the trees that get in his way. Nailah is the best character you have there in just about every way. What about that doesn't stand out? Nailah is better than Ike and Titania, and Elincia is definitely competing with Tibarn. There are several other h4x units assigned only to his team as well, so Tibarn certainly isn't without competition. Raping enemies when the team doesn't is certainly far better than raping enemies when the team can do that without you. Of course, Tibarn is never raping enemies when the team doesn't. Nailah, on the other hand, definitely is, at least during Part I. Tibarn may be more mobile, but Nailah is still mobile enough to do anything she'll need to. Beast Laguz are the most mobile of the ground-based units... and Ike's group needs flying units the least, so they won't be there. Nailah has better mobility than any other unit you're still using that was sent with Ike's group, while Tibarn can't say the same about characters matching his mobility in his group. Quote: Exactly, because Tibarn doesn’t exist in 4-3. shot Anyways, in 4-2, Tibarn is your most mobile unit in a huge forest chapter. Units like Tauroneo having trouble getting through Thickets? Tibarn doesn’t care. Hell, he can fly over the trees that foot units can’t even move through. So he gets to the enemies quickly, and completely rapes them. That’s way better than whatever Nailah was doing for a team that was already uber without her. There aren't many places where you have to cross trees in the level, and Tibarn can't fly over the central area, the main thing you'd want to get over. It's not like he's your only flying unit, either. Quote: Okay, first, WTF @ killing Izuka in 1 turn. Even if that was possible, you aren’t ending the most EXP abundant chapter in the game in a single turn. So anyways, the laguz don’t stop coming, so let’s stay awhile. After all, tactics rank no longer exists. Tibarn is fantastic here because everyone else struggles to move through the swamp. Tibarn has no terrain penalties, Canto, and Savior. Hell, if you wanted to, he could airlift the team so they could get to the action faster. Or he can get an injured unit out of a tight spot. He can also fly around the map at light speed and gain tons of EXP himself. Plus, when the time comes to actually catch Izuka, Tibarn is pretty much the only one that can do it, since foot units are moving like… 2 spaces per turn through the swamp. So he’s, yet again, incredibly useful. The turn you attack him, not the turn the chapter begins. The Laguz don't stop coming, so if you're abusing them, you don't care about how fast you kill them. Stop contradicting yourself. His ability to gain tons of Exp himself doesn't help anyone else, and it's not like he needs much anyway. "Catch" Izuka? Interesting that you'd say that when you also mention that you'll be abusing the chapter for Exp. If you don't care about how long you take, Izuka's Rewarp Staff will be gone before you try to kill him, making it easy to reach him without Tibarn if you don't care about how long you take... which you don't. Even if it mattered, it's not like he's your only flier, with characters like Elincia around. Tibarn isn't useful at all in 4-5. No one can be, because performance doesn't matter when you don't care about completing the chapter quickly and can easily one-round the boss. Quote: I think we’ve just proven that Tibarn is ~~waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay~~ more useful than Nailah. …wait, did that come out? Sorry, I meant that Tibarn is more useful than Nailah. lol
	Formerly Othin

Beta-Kraid and Ghor vs Eltoshen and Nintend-Fan · Debates