Viewing Single Post From: Beta-Kraid and Ghor vs Eltoshen and Nintend-Fan

Viewing Single Post From: Beta-Kraid and Ghor vs Eltoshen and Nintend-Fan
Beta-Knight	Feb 24 2008, 09:24 AM
whatever Posts: 146 Group: FEFFer Member #1,235 Joined: April 29, 2007	Alright, first let's clear some things up. It seems some of the points were a bit too vague. First of all, I'll clarify the Savior point: Savior is about as much of a point for Tibarn as it is for Oscar. Or Nailah, for that matter. Why? Well, tell me this. Why do inheritence skills count for a character's usefulness? Because they don't take up any capacity. BUT WAIT! For Tibarn, it DOES take up capacity in a way, since he can only have six skills. It doesn't matter that it doesn't take up any points, because it still stops him from getting other skills nonetheless. You could remove Savior and then give it back to him, and it wouldn't be taking up any more capacity than it was before. So it's not like Tibarn has Savior as an inheritence skill; in a way, it's more like he starts with a Savior scroll. So, it isn't any more of a point for him as it is to anyone else. But Savior goes really well on Tibarn, right? But it would also go well on Haar. Or Jill. Or Elincia. Or Nailah. But since it doesn't take up capacity, it's more efficient to leave it on him, right? BUT IT DOES TAKE UP CAPACITY ON HIM. It's as much of a detriment to him as it is to anyone else. Savior is just as much of a point for Tibarn as is it for Nailah. It could just as easily be on her without a downside to anyone else. And as you said, Elty-boy, they don't need skills to fight well. These two points show that inheritence skills are moot points in this particular debate. And as for this: Quote: Quote: Total Exp gain doesn't matter if there's no Exp rank. Say Nolan would get 20 Exp from a kill. Jill takes the kiill, and Nolan doesn't get the 20 Exp. Nailah takes the kill, and Nolan doesn't get the 20 Exp. No difference. Say Nolan needs to level. Nailah steals his experience. Nolan doesn't get his level. I don't really get your logic at all. You'd rather have Nailah take all the kills and see your other useful characters sit their and watch? Quote: Out of all the characters you listed, the only win is Tormod's Str beating Nailah's Mag (since the direct offensive stats would be reversed in comparison for a Mage being compared to a physical unit)... and his Str is way past the amount he'd get something out of anyway, so it doesn't matter. All of Nailah's stats other than Mag are far over the corresponding stat for each other unit, even assuming they somehow get to that kind of level, which isn't happening anyway. Not to mention Nailah's large advantage in mobility over all of them except Volug... Nailah is completely raping here. Far more than Tibarn can ever say for his chapters. Where did you hide the Black Knight? Under your bed? AKA, the Final Chapter doesn't need you, Nailah. We don't need you hogging any experience when people still need their levels. Quote: FESNinFinity: LOL LETS GIVE HER PARAGON FESNinFinity: 2 EXP PER KILL CrossKnightElto: ROFL UNLIKE, in part 4. >_> I shall clarify this. By this chapter, Nolan and friends do not "desperately need" that EXP. It's not likely that very many of the first tier units will have been being used, with crap like Fiona and Meg out there. Nolan, Cai, and Jill are the only two that are definitely being used. And Aran and maaaaaaybe Eddo are possibilities as well. But the point is, any of them that you've been training are gonna be promoted by this point- or, in Cai's case, maxed out. So as a result, NO ONE is gaining h4x amounts of EXP anymore. Maybe liek 5-15 points for a kill. They do not even remotely "desperately need" the kills. But Nailah still gains less EXP for the kills, right? So she shouldn't be getting any kills, right? RIGHT? Wrong. Yes, if Nailah got a kill, then that was one kill that Nolan could've gotten. One level up Nolan would've gotten. But what if you do let him get the kill? He gets the level up. Yay. BUT WAIT! Nolan just stole a kill/level up from Jill. That's one level up that Jill could've gotten. They're taking the exact same amount of EXP away from everyone else, so it's not that big of a difference. It's only gonna hurt you if you do what you said and let her suck up all your kills, and why, in the name of all that is studly, would you do that? That's like saying that Tibarn shouldn't be used because he'll prolly die if you leave him untransformed near Izuka with no one else around. It's the player's fault if that happens. It's only gonna happen if you're stupid about it. I guess that means that Marcus, Seth, Titania(FE9) and Sothe shouldn't be used either, eh? That's, like, FE Empire nub logic or something. Oh... Oh no... Don't tell me... Don't tell me you guys are turning into FEE nubs! NOOOOO!!! QUICK, SOMEONE BAN THEM!!! No, Whopper Freakout is not under Othin's bed, he's underneath one of those ledges that it takes him about fifteen turns each to climb. Nailah dun have to worry about that, she can climb those ledges in her sleep. Me myself and I Mr. Whopper can't help here anywhere near as much as Nailah, since his Mov is so much lower and he takes so much longer to climb the ledges. Nailah easily makes it up the ledges, get to far-away spaces, and can one-round any enemy that can attack from afar in a snap. Learn to read. ^^ Nailah is unbelievably useful in this chapter, like it or not. Especially if you give her the Pass scroll for this chapter- in fact, since she has the best mobility here and since someone with Pass is really needed here, she's the best possible candidate for it. She'll be able to climb those ledges, get to the chests, take out the Longbow users and long-range magic users and make the entire chapter easier for you. I don't recall Tibarn ever being this useful. And one last thing: Quote: Where are your advantages? All you seem to be doing is trying to belittle ours. Quote: First of all, there's her part one chapters. Two chapters doesn't seem like much of a difference, but like I've said, she has quite a bit more utility than Tibarn in these chapters. She's about ten billion times as stronger than any of your other units there, and more importantly, the enemies. Not only is she uber in 1-8, she's essential in 1-F. Long-range magic, being swarmed by eneimes of all sorts, chests being pilfered and accurate Longbows from above ledges that can more than easily one-round Cai and Raphy. Mr. Whopper can't help here anywhere near as much as Nailah, since his Mov is so much lower and he takes so much longer to climb the ledges. Nailah easily makes it up the ledges, get to far-away spaces, and can one-round any enemy that can attack from afar in a snap. Her part four chapters are harder than Tibarn's as well. 4-1? Fog of War=NOT NICE. Especially when enemies are assaulting you from all sides and getting closer to your weak units every moment. Nailah can easily hold off any enemies you need her to. 4-4? Cramped hallways with more reinforcements showing up every turn at the perfect spots to come pick off Tormod and Raphy. Definitly rather annoying. Again, Nailah can hold off any swarm of enemies you need her to without any trouble at all. Tibarn's chapters? 4-3? Not a hard chapter at all. No particularly powerful enemies to speak of, and no big surprises beyond anyone's control. Tibarn certainly is uber, but not as essential as Nailah is in her chapters by a longshot. And finally, 4-5. Yes, he definitely helps a good deal here, I'm not denying that. The thing is, the chapter can be finished fairly quickly anyway. Izuka may have powerful attacks and be able to warp, but he's also as easy to rip apart as wet toilet paper. Simply kill him in one turn and the chapter will end right away. This can easily be done without Tibarn. So, yeah. Nailah's waaaaaaaay more useful in her chapters than Tibarn is in his, and not only because she has more of them. So, let's review: -Tibarn has seven chapters of uberness, whereas Nailah has nine. This means she's that much more useful. -Tibarn is sort of essential in one chapter, whereas Nailah is absolutely essential in one and sort of essential in two. Again, this means she's that much more useful. -Tibarn and Nailah are both unkillable and one-round everything, meaning Nailah's leads in usefulness are more important when comparing the two. And thus, Nailah is overall more useful than Tibarn. Srsly, what is this weird beef you have with reading? It's a healthy habbit, ya know. But whatever. Now that we're clear on everything, I'll just get back to the regularly scheduled raepage. Quote: Except for the fact that Magic does nothing for royals. And also, Luck AND resistance are not needed because of Tibarn's pavise and >9000 speed. I may agree that they're both doing well with combat. However, in terms of final chapter usefulness, Tibarn will be doing 14 more points more damage(SS weapon has one more attack point that Nailah's, and he ends up with 3(x2) more points in strength than Nailah(x2 because of doubling)). So, wait...you're saying that Nailah doesn't double? ROFLMAO ROFLMAO ROFLMAO Also, aside from bosses and Red Dragons, THERE IS NOTHING THEY DON'T BOTH ONE-ROUND. Quote: Also, when considering usefulness against Ashera(aka doubling against her), Tibarn only needs to gain speed in one of his remaining 9 levels while Nailah has to gain speed 3 times in her remaining 7. Her chance of being able to double against Ashera are much much less likely; and considering the fact that her speed growth is 20%... (and this is going by luck too, since her average speed will be slower than Ashera's on average). This means Tibarn will be doing 28(14x2) more damage than Nailah. That makes a big difference when we're dealing with a character of 120+ HP. o_O lolwtf? Nailah doubles her too. She's weighed down a bit by Judge, remember? Quote: Why, exactly, are you debating over that? We basically said that Pavise is an added skill for him, not something he needs. It's not hurting him in any way either. You can't use that against us in any way either. Saying that you can put it on another character is fucking retarded. Anybody can remove any of their non-class skills and it'd be applied in the same way. If you want to play that way, we might as well strip Nailah of her Guard as well. Tibarn will be making better use of it with his high HP. But Guard is still a shit skill, so ROFL. Whatever. Inheritence skills are moot in this debate anyway, like I said. Quote: As for authority stars, it only applies when you're next to the character you want to give boosts to. How are you going to do that while not using Tibarn at all? >_> Meanwhile, Nailah's are useless since she's never the leader. You should've just left it at that, instead of pressing further. We were about to miss the fact that Nailah couldn't make use of her stars anyways, lol. So how is this a point for Tibarn again? Tibarn has to be fielded, so everyone getting those bonuses are completely inevitable. You don't have to use him to get the bonuses; they just happen. Quote: True. It barely applies. False. It does not barely apply- it never applies. Quote: There's nothing else I can argue about since you guys keep repeating the same thing. There's nothing else I need to argue about since you guys can't seem to counter that same thing. ~~Points at Sety's quote in Othin's sig~~ Quote: As said earlier, the fight against Ashera shows how much it matters. And fewer enemies? The final chapter is more than half of their playtime, lol. SHE CAN DOUBLE ASHERA NUBCAEK. If you meant Ashera's barriers, you'd be correct. However, if she's at level, say, 36 by then, she'll have about a 50-50 chance of having gained a point in Spd, and will thus be able to double them. And even if she hasn't, destroying 1-3 barriers a turn is mad easy with Nasir and Ena around, so I can't see it standing out that much. I dunno what the word "few" was doing in the sentence, but I think you know what he meant. <_< Quote: Nailah does receive punishment from terrain, just less severely. The swamps in 1-8 will slow her down. Also, Tibarn's flying makes him equal to Nailah? I don't see Nailah leaping over mountains. So, wait...Tibarn can fly over the swamps in 1-8? Wowzerz, I never knew that. And aside from that chapter, since when is there all that much terrain in her chapters? Her mobility is actually really useful in 1-F and 4-4, when she can hop up the ledges and to the action faster than anyone else, especially with the disadvantages that the mounted units have there. Quote: And still sucking up all of mama's experience. </3 Several? I only know of one that can have a slight chance of dying in this chapter. AKA, Rafiel. You should have the walls blocked off. And then, there are only two pegasus knights to worry about; who can be plucked off by Haar or something. I thought you said earlier that Nailah was meant for attacking anyways. o_O No, she does not "suck up mama's experience" unless you're an FEE nub. Besides, by that logic, Tibarn does the same thing. There's not just Rafiel, there's also Soren, and...pretty much anyone else that isn't very durable. You can't tell when the enemies are coming, so Nailah's the perfect crutch when something unexpected happens. Tibarn's not needed as a crutch in his chapters, since you don't need one as much when you can tell when enemies are coming. Quote: Elincia x Tibarn supporting sounds sexy. She's mainly a healer so she can leech off of Tibarn's sexy leadership and support bonuses. What other "h4x units" can fly? Reyson? Because we all know he's going to be on the front lines. Yeah, she's still breast feeding off my experience... Sexy? wtflol. ALL THEY GET IS HIT from that support. An insane amount of hit, maybe, but still just hit. And, srsly, since when is either of them gonna be missing? C'mon, when? ~~By that logic, you're sexy. I mean c'mon!~~ Haar? Jill? Marcia? And besides, a unit can be h4x without flying, ya know. Nin's point about Tibarn being the only h4x unit in his squad didn't make much sense, along a good handful of others that he used. ENOUGH WITH THE EXP THING IT'S MOOT GOT IT Quote: Titania matches her movement in 4-1. But not in 4-4; not even close. Explained why already. Quote: Tibarn has people that can match his mobility. So what? It's not like any characters are even close to being as h4x as Tibarn. Nor is it like any characters are even close to being as h4x as Nailah. lulz Quote: Elincia can't cross over the central area either, so wtf. We never said she could, so wtf. You completely missed the point there. Srsly, enough with this not reading thing of yours. Quote: Because everybody wants to spend more than an hour trying to gain experience, right? Er...okay...but you kinda just countered your own points. Quote: Yes, but it makes it easier for him to earn experience as this is a chapter with the biggest benefits to all units, thanks to the nonstop enemies. See? See, doing that would bring about one of those EXP-stealing moments you seem so obsessed with. It takes about ten kills for him to level up, and Izuka only summons four laguz per turn. And of course, since you don't wanna spend more than an hour trying to gain EXP, that's not something you wanna do. And besides, he has low growths, so he's gonna need more than one level up before he starts showing much improvement, which means he'll need even more kills...and it's not like he even needed to gain levels in the first place. Quote: That doesn't change the fact that Tibarn can help lift allies over to the laguz either. >_> Why should he need to? They're all charging at you from the very begining of the chapter. Quote: By the way, you mean "with Elincia" not "with characters like Elincia", right? Jill and Haar, lol. Not that it matters, since Elincia does exist, lol. So, in conclusion: Quote: -Tibarn has seven chapters of uberness, whereas Nailah has nine. This means she's that much more useful. -Tibarn is sort of essential in one chapter, whereas Nailah is absolutely essential in one and sort of essential in two. Again, this means she's that much more useful. -Tibarn and Nailah are both unkillable and one-round everything, meaning Nailah's leads in usefulness are more important when comparing the two. And thus, Nailah is overall more useful than Tibarn. yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay Quote: I am tired. : O I hear ya bro.
	Formerly Dark Beta, Falaflame. Beta-Kraid or just Beta on other forums Levin Oct 31 2007, 03:01 PM DBZ = Over-muscled men screaming and grunting ~~with constipation sound effects~~...

Beta-Kraid and Ghor vs Eltoshen and Nintend-Fan · Debates