Viewing Single Post From: Beta-Kraid and Ghor vs Eltoshen and Nintend-Fan

Viewing Single Post From: Beta-Kraid and Ghor vs Eltoshen and Nintend-Fan
Nin-Finity	Feb 26 2008, 08:28 AM
Nintend-Fan Posts: 410 Group: FEFFer Member #735 Joined: April 22, 2006	Beta First of all, I'll clarify the Savior point: Savior is about as much of a point for Tibarn as it is for Oscar. Or Nailah, for that matter. Why? Well, tell me this. Why do inheritence skills count for a character's usefulness? Because they don't take up any capacity. BUT WAIT! For Tibarn, it DOES take up capacity in a way, since he can only have six skills. It doesn't matter that it doesn't take up any points, because it still stops him from getting other skills nonetheless. You could remove Savior and then give it back to him, and it wouldn't be taking up any more capacity than it was before. So it's not like Tibarn has Savior as an inheritence skill; in a way, it's more like he starts with a Savior scroll. So, it isn't any more of a point for him as it is to anyone else. But Savior goes really well on Tibarn, right? But it would also go well on Haar. Or Jill. Or Elincia. Or Nailah. But since it doesn't take up capacity, it's more efficient to leave it on him, right? BUT IT DOES TAKE UP CAPACITY ON HIM. It's as much of a detriment to him as it is to anyone else. Savior is just as much of a point for Tibarn as is it for Nailah. It could just as easily be on her without a downside to anyone else. Yes, Savior DOES go really well on Tibarn; having 8 MOV and Canto + being able to rescue practically anything except maybe transformed Lions and Tigers will do that for you. Put it on Nailah? Lol, let’s not; she only has 7 MOV (where the hell are you getting 9 from?) and lacks Canto. Or some of those others you mentioned? Why? They could take some Combat-related skills instead that Tibarn has no use for; for example, Elincia loves Cancel with her infinite-use “brave” weapon that will always have her attack at least twice. Plus there’s another Savior scroll. Additionally although Tibarn may have enough capacity for any skill he wants, not everyone does, so Savior is not for everyone. So although it’s perfectly viable to remove Savior from Tibarn, it’s safe to assume that he’ll be keeping it, since nobody else can make better use of it, and he came with it anyway. “He doesn’t need it,” isn’t a viable enough reason to remove it from him, seeing as nobody else needs it more, and if you can somehow argue that someone else DOES need it, then there’s another Savior scroll anyway. Beta I shall clarify this. By this chapter, Nolan and friends do not "desperately need" that EXP. It's not likely that very many of the first tier units will have been being used, with crap like Fiona and Meg out there. Nolan, Cai, and Jill are the only two that are definitely being used. And Aran and maaaaaaybe Eddo are possibilities as well. But the point is, any of them that you've been training are gonna be promoted by this point- or, in Cai's case, maxed out. So as a result, NO ONE is gaining h4x amounts of EXP anymore. Maybe liek 5-15 points for a kill. They do not even remotely "desperately need" the kills. But Nailah still gains less EXP for the kills, right? So she shouldn't be getting any kills, right? RIGHT? Wrong. Yes, if Nailah got a kill, then that was one kill that Nolan could've gotten. One level up Nolan would've gotten. But what if you do let him get the kill? He gets the level up. Yay. BUT WAIT! Nolan just stole a kill/level up from Jill. That's one level up that Jill could've gotten. They're taking the exact same amount of EXP away from everyone else, so it's not that big of a difference. It's only gonna hurt you if you do what you said and let her suck up all your kills, and why, in the name of all that is studly, would you do that? That's like saying that Tibarn shouldn't be used because he'll prolly die if you leave him untransformed near Izuka with no one else around. It's the player's fault if that happens. It's only gonna happen if you're stupid about it. I guess that means that Marcus, Seth, Titania(FE9) and Sothe shouldn't be used either, eh? That's, like, FE Empire nub logic or something. So, you’re telling me that Nolan, Micaiah, and Jill (3 people BTW; counting is good for you) are all past level 20 by now? Especially when usage of Aran and Eddie is also very possible, AND when units like Sothe have been around since chapter 2 and taking some of the available EXP? I highly doubt that. So they’ll want some EXP, and unpromoted units not named Micaiah don’t have the capacity for Paragon… I don’t care if you aren’t getting ranked for total EXP gained; your units are gaining less net levels if most kills yield 1 EXP instead of ~15, and if your team isn’t gaining as many levels, then they are weaker overall. Sure, it may not matter AS MUCH as in FE7, but it’s still something to consider. Beta No, Whopper Freakout is not under Othin's bed, he's underneath one of those ledges that it takes him about fifteen turns each to climb. Nailah dun have to worry about that, she can climb those ledges in her sleep. Ranged attacking up the ledges works just as well, really. <_< And it only takes him 1 extra turn. HEY LOOK, A BUNCH OF MAGE REINFORCEMENTS APPEARED. Oh whoops, Nailah can’t attack at a range, so she’ll have to spend 4-5 turns picking each one off individually. Oh hey, BK can kill them all during the enemy phase. Gogo BK. There are tons upon tons of ranged attackers in the final, and lots of mage/Hand Axe!Fighter reinforcements that Nailah simply can’t deal with as well as a good chunk of the team. Beta Nailah is unbelievably useful in this chapter, like it or not. Especially if you give her the Pass scroll for this chapter- in fact, since she has the best mobility here and since someone with Pass is really needed here, she's the best possible candidate for it. She'll be able to climb those ledges, get to the chests, take out the Longbow users and long-range magic users and make the entire chapter easier for you. I don't recall Tibarn ever being this useful. Sothe matches her mobility in every aspect except climbing the ledges, and he can actually open the chests once he reaches them. And he won’t disappear after this chapter and steal the DB’s Pass scroll. Oh yeah, and he has ranged attacks. So she isn’t as useful as you think. Beta So, wait...you're saying that Nailah doesn't double? ROFLMAO ROFLMAO ROFLMAO And YOU were complaining about how we were misinterpreting what you said? Elto Tibarn will be doing 14 more points more damage(SS weapon has one more attack point that Nailah's, and he ends up with 3(x2) more points in strength than Nailah(x2 because of doubling)). Laguz stats double when they transform, which is why Tibarn’s damage lead is as large as it is. And when they both double, which they do, Tibarn’s damage lead applies again, essentially doubling it. Beta Also, aside from bosses and Red Dragons, THERE IS NOTHING THEY DON'T BOTH ONE-ROUND. Yeah, and Tibarn does more damage against bosses and Red Dragons, and will be more likely to land a critical hit or activate his mastery skill against the dragons. Beta False. It does not barely apply- it never applies. Nice dodge? Uh, no. With stuff like Canto existing, Tibarn can easily end up near Reyson. Don’t BS and say that stuff won’t ever apply when it can. Beta If you meant Ashera's barriers, you'd be correct. However, if she's at level, say, 36 by then, she'll have about a 50-50 chance of having gained a point in Spd, and will thus be able to double them. And even if she hasn't, destroying 1-3 barriers a turn is mad easy with Nasir and Ena around, so I can't see it standing out that much. Well, seeing as there’s 1 Ashera and 9 barriers… You know, on average, Nailah will gain .8 points of SPD by level 40. Gaining 3 points of SPD in 7 levels is unlikely when your growth is 20%. Tibarn practically 1-rounds the barriers while Nailah fails to double. Beta So, wait...Tibarn can fly over the swamps in 1-8? Wowzerz, I never knew that. Try 4-5, captain literal. :\| Beta No, she does not "suck up mama's experience" unless you're an FEE nub. Besides, by that logic, Tibarn does the same thing. Tibarn’s chapters have essentially unlimited EXP… or at least 1 of them, so he isn’t sucking up EXP at all when there’s plenty to be had. Beta There's not just Rafiel, there's also Soren, and...pretty much anyone else that isn't very durable. You can't tell when the enemies are coming, so Nailah's the perfect crutch when something unexpected happens. Tibarn's not needed as a crutch in his chapters, since you don't need one as much when you can tell when enemies are coming. Soren has Ike for h4x evasion gains and can dodge reliably, and can afford to get hit once or twice; the only unit that really needs babysitting is Rafael. Ike and Titania are perfect crutches when something unexpected happens, so how the hell is Nailah contributing to her team as much as Tibarn is to his? Okay, let’s solo 4-2 with Tauroneo and Ranulf! :D Beta Haar? Jill? Marcia? …are in Micaiah’s group where the terrain is ridiculous and fliers not locked to certain teams are desperately needed. …and wtf, Marcia sucks. Beta And besides, a unit can be h4x without flying, ya know. Nin's point about Tibarn being the only h4x unit in his squad didn't make much sense, along a good handful of others that he used. Tibarn /is/ the only h4x unit in his squad. Who else is on Nailah’s team? Ike, Titania, Soren, Mist, and Raphael. Who else is on Tibarn’s? Elincia, Ranulf, Tauroneo, Pelleas, and Reyson. Pretty much anyone else is just as likely to be on any given team, and will be competing with both Tibarn and Nailah, so that point is moot. Going by which units are forced, it’s pretty obvious where the gap between Royal and teammates is largest. Tibarn wins here. Beta But not in 4-4; not even close. Explained why already. Uh, it’s pretty much Canto vs. climbing ledges, and that’s pretty close. Additionally, plenty of other units have 7 MOV. And Titania has MORE mobility in 4-1 to make up for that; wtf @ you thinking that Nailah had 9 MOV. Beta Nor is it like any characters are even close to being as h4x as Nailah. Lulz Ike and Titania come way closer than lolElincia. Beta See, doing that would bring about one of those EXP-stealing moments you seem so obsessed with. It takes about ten kills for him to level up, and Izuka only summons four laguz per turn. And of course, since you don't wanna spend more than an hour trying to gain EXP, that's not something you wanna do. The map also starts with like 8 bazillion laguz already there, so I don’t see where you’re going with this… Plus Tibarn is the only one that can reach all the laguz on the other side of the swamp in a reasonable amount of time. Well, Elincia COULD, but she’d have a much harder time doing it. Beta Jill and Haar, lol. Are in the desert, lol. So, to conclude: -The gap between Tibarn and the rest of the team is always insanely large, whereas Nailah loses her godliness due to the presence of Ike and Titania, among others. -Tibarn has 1 additional move, flying, and Canto, so he’s more mobile than Nailah. -Tibarn can Savior stuff. Woo. -Tibarn outdamages Nailah against final chapter enemies; a crucial ability to have against the toughest foes in the game. -Tibarn makes other people better with authority stars, bonds, and a support with a fellow flyer that’s present in all of his chapters. -Tibarn has his shirt split open showing peks. Tibarn 4 top of Top Tier. Oh wait…


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