Viewing Single Post From: Eclipse and Scotu vs Sentenal and SwordsAreShiney

Viewing Single Post From: Eclipse and Scotu vs Sentenal and SwordsAreShiney
scotu	Feb 29 2008, 09:00 PM
Posts: 32 Group: FEFFer Member #1,657 Joined: January 21, 2008	Quote: Ike, some scrub who passes up sex with Elincia and Aimee for an emo half-furry who cuts himself vs. Haar, pwnsome wyvern knight. Advantage: Haar Lol, even Gatrie want's some of Soren. Haar is not pwnsome. He's just lazy. Quote: If Haar had two eyes he’d be too broken. The eye patch is the developer’s way of balancing the game. balancing the game? lol, Haar sucks so much he couldn't save his own eye. Quote: Fuck Brawl, we’re talking about FE10 here. Ike being in brawl just shows how awesome he is in FE10. Quote: Woah, woah, woah, why are we jumping right into part 3? Let’s take a look at part 2 first. 2-P – A relatively small chapter, where Sir Haar appears to save the day! Haar joins, and he’s substantially better than everyone else. Marcia will have perma-WTD, and Elincia won’t be doing much damage. Leanne obviously can’t attack, and Nealuchi isn’t so great either, not to mention he has to maintain his transformed state. Haar rapes everything, and is substantially better at dealing with the boss than the others. Between Elincia, Marcia and Nealuchi, esp. w/ help from Leanee, they can easily deal with wyverns. Haar's only big advantage here is his ability to beat the boss. You don't even have him for the whole chapter. Quote: Then comes 2-F, Elincia’s Gambit. This chapter is substantially larger than the last one in which Haar starred, and it’s substantially harder as well. Haar, again, will be massive raep in this chapter – he’ll be blocking off one side of the map, as he’ll be your most durable unit, and one of your most offensive ones as well. He’s massively useful here. Haar's not the only one who can do that, you know. Brom, Nephenee, and Mordecai are just as tanky. Marcia and Elincia, too, are able to deal with most situations. Quote: Ike, on the other hand, has nothing like this. Ike doesn’t have any chapters in which the gap between him and the rest of your units is as massive as Haar’s in Part 2, nor is he nearly as essential to clearing any chapters as Haar is in part 2. When Ike joins, so do half a million other rape units, which make any pwnness he has substantially less useful. And even amongst all the Greil Mercenaries, Haar manages to be a force to be reckoned with, and have massive utility of his own that no one else can do. We've already stated Ike's amazing utility. He buffs your whole party just by being the leader, and units that are supported with him get even more avoid than what's given by his command stars. It's like giving your units permanent Best biorhythm, and then some. Enemy hit on your party being significantly reduced >>>>> flying. Haar is, at best, as good as the other mercs. He doesn't blow them out of the water. Quote: So, moving on to your comparison... Haar should be higher than that. Haar, in 2-P will undoubtedly be the one to deal with the boss, and a few other wyverns on the side, so he’ll gain a level there. And then, as he’ll be walling one side in a chapter flooded by promoted units, I see no reason why he can’t gain more than two levels there. Haar should be 15 or 16. 15 at best. Quote: Haar @ lv. 15 HP: 47.2/50±1.4 (30%) Str: 25.8/29±1.4 (70%) Mag: 2.2/5±0.8 (5%) Skl: 25.9/26±0.8 (70%) Spd: 21.2/24±1.4 (30%) Lck: 14.8/30±1.4 (45%) Def: 25.4/26±1.1 (65%) Res: 7.8/13±1.1 (20%) Move: 9 Ike @ lv. 14 HP: 46.0/50±1.1 Str: 25.7/27±1.1 Mag: 2.3/10±0.8 Skl: 29.6/30±0.8 Spd: 24.1/30±1.1 Lck: 14.9/30±1.1 Def: 22.2/26±1.1 Res: 7.5/15±0.8 Move: 7 Haar wins in HP, strength, defense, resistance, and move where as Ike takes skill, speed, magic, luck. Haar wins in Def and Mov. Ike wins in Skl, and Spd. Haar only leads in HP by 1.2, Str by 0.1, and res by 0.3, Ike only wins in Mag by 0.1, and luck by 0.1. those differences are negligable. What really matters is Ike's lead in Skl by 3.7, Spd by 2.9, and Haar's lead in Def by 3.2. Ike's lead 3.7 lead in skl and 2.9 is spd far outwiegh Haar's lead in Def by 3.2 and any other minor differences in other stats. Ike's leading the stats here. Quote: It’s also worth noting that Haar’s skill is now more or less capped, and his defense is as well, meaning he’s in a good position for bonus exping, to bring up his speed/res. Since there isn’t really any one in a good position for bonus exp right now (except maybe Nephenee), Haar can get easy access to it right away as well. Ike never wants, nor needs BEXP. He won't be consuming any of those resources from your team. As for Haar getting BEXP, not going to happen. Mia, Soren, Gatrie and Shinon all get BEXP before Haar. They all make better use of it than Haar, and all of them will cap their leading stats by 3-2 (when Haar would want your BEXP - and if not in 3-2, then in 3-3). If you're going to BEXP Haar right when he gets there, He'll just be swallowing resources from your other units that make better use of that BEXP. Quote: Indeed, prf weapons are pretty gay. Minus bit about Ike having higher strength. Ettard is still pretty good and free. Plus you can get another one. Quote: Yeah, but Wind Edges blow massive cock. They cost more, do less damage, and have less accuracy than Hand Haxes. Also, Haar’s already got a Short Axe too, from Zeffren in 2-P, and the potential for a Tomahawk as well, depending who gets the kill on Ludveck. At 1-2 range, Haar >>> Ike, until part 4, and even then, Haar still has better range because he’s infinitely more mobile as well. Wind Edges do blow some cock, but they also get the job done. Ike has more than enough Str to make a kill w/ a Wind Edge (esp. if his support gives him atk). Quote: Indeed, Ragnell’s pretty nice. I’d say Alondite’s better because it isn’t locked to Ike though, but that’s beside the point. Also, the problem with Ragnell is that Ike can’t even use it for the first two chapters he has it. Because Ike has to wait to force promote, he’s rendered useless from ~3-8 on, depending on when he hits level 20. Once he does hit 20, he can’t really enter combat at all because he’ll just waste all the exp. Being useless for a third or more of the part sux. That's not necessarily true. Ike doesn't have to promote by 3-8. You could rush it, and easily get him there by 3-8, or you spread out your usage of Ike more, and make sure he gets some use out of Ragnell, and gives your team more exp in the earlier chapters. No johns, Plan ahead. Ike's increadibly early access to his ultimate weapon gives him an advantage unmatched by Haar -- or any other unit for that matter. Quote: Haar, on the other hand, has nothing like this. He can promote whenever he chooses, as opposed to having to wait for the blessing some emo loli who PMS’d and nearly destroyed the world. Yay for Haar. Haar's earlier promotion is just something we're going to have to live with. Quote: Yes, however, Urvan has substantially higher accuracy, substantially higher power, and a nice boost to resistance. Also, another thing worth noting about all this weapon stuff is that Haar has access to not only Axes, but Lances as well. He WTAs substantially more often than Ike, meaning nice offensive and defensive boosts. Yay Ragnell >>> Urvan. First, you get it WAY earlier. Second, It has 2 range, and most enemies after you get Urvan have 2 range, meaning more than 1/2 the time, Haar won't be able to counter attack. Ike doesn't have this problem in the final. Quote: You seem to forget that Haar can recruit Jill over in 3-7. While it isn’t preferable as Micaiah needs all the help she can get, it’s still an option that’s available to you, allowing Jill more exp and stuff like that. And then that bond exists as well for Haar. Lol no. You're NOT going to steal one of the Shit brigade's best units from them just so that Haar can have a 5% bond support. Quote: Moving on now. One of Haar’s largest advantages over everyone else is his trusty wyvern. Being able to fly, Haar has massive utility that no one can replicate through part 3. I wouldn't go about saying no one... Let's not forget that you get 2 other good flyiers in part 3 (although one comes significantly later): Ulki and Marcia. Quote: In the chapter where he rejoins, 3-2, for starters, there are quite a few swamps. While everyone else must take their time making their way across, Haar can simply glide across and laugh at your beloved Ike as he’s stuck eating Haar’s dust. There are only like, 2-3 squares of movement limiting terrain you have to cross, and actually, this terrain is more beneficial, because it gives defensive bonuses to ground units, and is ideally spaced for baiting the enemies near the boss. Haar actually has a bigger problem here: a bolting mage. Quote: Next chapter, 3-3, the supply burning chapter. Haar can fly around burning everything to finish the chapter quicker, earning more bonus exp, as well as getting the villages quicker. Ike, on the other hand, would have to run around the fences, and so on. And there is plenty of time to run around the fences, so where were you going with that? Quote: Next chapter, 3-4, where nubfuck Skrimir goes and screws everything up. Cliffs -> yay for Haar’s mobility pwning here, and others being raped, notably horsies, who can’t even reach the top of the level. Fortunately for Ike, he's not a horse. Something worth noting here is that, enemies are spaced well on the cliffs to be able to get up them and still attack the enemies, so you don't need any of that flying. Just go up a cliff, and attack someone. btw, Haar's not the only one who can go up cliffs and attack the enemies from behind. Heather was nice enough to bring a Pass scroll with her, giving any of your ground units (like Ike) the ability to climb up the cliffs and hit the enemies on their level as well. Quote: In the next chapter, 3-5, the terrain doesn’t pose so much of a problem – but there are some walls and cliffs, so Haar still has an advantage over Ike. Hardly. Either you're going to want to just go up a cliff, and stop at the top (for defense), or you're going to only want to take a few steps down and attack some enemies. This chapter poses more threats for Haar, as there are a larger than usual ammount of thunder mages, and IIRC a guy w/ a wyrmslayer. Quote: The next one, 3-7, is a mass of swamps. Yay for not having to go in them! Also, Haar can rescue Ike away from the Black Knight for recruiting Lehran, because Ike’s too much of a pansy to deal with the Black Knight himself. The terrain isn't the obstacle preventing movement, it's the enemy swarms. The swarms that you don't need extra movement to cut through. Haar's not the only one who can rescue Ike away from the Black Knight either. The recently aquired Janaff and Ulki can do it as well. Ike can in fact, deal with the Black Knight on his own, it's just a simple matter of baiting. Need I remind you that it is IKE and NOT Haar that is required for Lehran's recruitment. Quote: Jumping forward a bit, to 3-11 now, the bridge chapter. Haar doesn’t have to get raped by the traps like everyone else does, and also, he can even park his wyvern on one to let people by. Also, by this point (probably much earlier), as mentioned earlier, Ike will have reached level 20, and will be useless in combat. Haar, on the other hand, can grow freely, and fight as he wants. Haar's not the only one who can allow your units to pass across traps. In fact, i've got a better idea: let Sigrun/ Tanith do it. They're not particularly good for much, so that's what they're good at. Haar's utility in trap prevention is minimal at best. On another note, something you kind of skipped over, chapter 3-8. Haar's mov in 3-8 is only 7. Same as Ike's. Quote: So as you can see, Haar having a wyvern is a massive boon through all of the annoying terrain part 3 throws your way. He can soar over swamps, which will be a massive problem for all of your other units; he can fly over fences to clear the supply burning chapter quicker; he can fly over the cliffs while other units are stuck moving around, or climbing up, or not doing anything at all in the case of horses. *Ike, on the other hand, has nothing like this. He’s one of the units who gets screwed over by the adverse terrain effects this game throws at you.* Haar's flying also comes at the cost of being weak to Thunder, He's not able to shove, He can't be shoved, He's weak to Wyrmslayers, and He can't have a 15 skill and a 10 skill. Quote: So, just to summarize what we’ve seen so far... - Haar, when he joins, has superior durability, and more powerful single strikes than Ike - Haar pwns Ike at 1-2 range - Haar can promote whenever he wants, where as Ike will hit level 20, and then be useless for a few chapters, as he’ll only waste exp. - Haar wields two weapons. Ike wields one (before promotion). - Haar is massive pwn in his two part 2 chapters, and is substantially better than your other units. Ike, on the other hand, never has a period when the gap between him and the others is that big. - Being a flying unit, Haar can do all sorts of fun stuff with the terrain in part 3; fly over swamps, fences, etc. Haar >>> Ike -Whoa, wait a minute. Haar has no such "superior durability". While He may have a more powerful single strike, Ike is far more likely to double. -Ike deals fine at 1-2 range, so it doesn't matter how much better Haar is at it. -It does suck that he force promotes kind of late, but it by no means mean that he's useless for a few chapters, you just have to plan better. -Haar does weild two weapons, but Ike on promotion gains Axe A, a better promotion gain in weapons than every other class. -Haar is only slight pwn in his 2 part 2 chapters and is not substantially better than your other units. -Being a flier, Haar gains none of the benefits of terrain either. in terms of durability, Ike will have significantly more avo than Haar due to his support. Haar at most gains 8 avo from his affinity, Ike, at least gains 23. Ike's already leading in speed over Haar, and has comparable luck. Ike also starts his support earlier, and starts recieving bonuses before Haar. Just when they join, Ike has 14 (assuming you only managed a C support with a no-avo affinity) more avo than Haar, and only 3 less Def. This avo lead increases as time goes on when Ike increases his support. Haar has no advantage in durability. Let's look at the flip side of affinity. Ike also gives someone 23 (at least 22.5) avo. Ike's affinity gives both him better durabiltiy than Haar, and someone else more durability than Haar. Haar has all this "utitlity" you speak of and claim Ike has nothing to match it. On the contrary. Ike has a utitlity that Haar cannot match: Authority Stars. He gives your whole team 15 avo and 15 hit. He makes all of your units have more avo, making them more durable, and all of them more hit, making their offense better. These are pretty tremendous bonuses. Haar cannot even comprehend the awesomeness and usefulness of this because he's too caught up in flying. Wrap up (better version) -Haar Flies -Ike gets terrain bonuses -Ike has more offense than Haar due to the Ettard and higher speed when Haar joins Ike's team -Ike has better durability due to more avo. -Ike's Ragnell>>> Haar's weapon selection -Ike costs less to use -Ike has better bond supports - Ike's Earth affinity gives him great avo, but equally importantly, it gives someone else great avo -Ike gives your whole frikkin' team +15 hit/avo; a hell of a lot more useful than flying. Ike >>>>>>>>> Haar.


Eclipse and Scotu vs Sentenal and SwordsAreShiney · Debates