Viewing Single Post From: Mekkah vs Zorak

Viewing Single Post From: Mekkah vs Zorak
Zorak	Jun 20 2008, 08:52 AM
Posts: 69 Group: FEFFer Member #1,617 Joined: December 28, 2007	Quote: The first thing you'll notice about these two is that they're absolutely terrible. However, Wendy is terrible for much longer. She joins at Ch8 and she manages to be worse than Lilina, even worse than Sophia, arguably. And on lategame, everyone is better than Yuno :] Quote: Offensively, she has 4 Atk, 3 AS and a stellar 9 base hit. I don't think I need to tell you how terrible that is. Not even doubling 0 AS enemies, having 79 hit before enemy evade and 11 Atk with Iron hitting on defense while taking a counter. The option of throwing a Javelin may as well not exist for her: now she has 64 base hit, and only 10 Atk. Defensively, Wendy has to be better, since she's an Armor, right? Haha, no. 19 HP, 8 Def, 1 Res and 12 evade. It takes 7 AS to double Wendy. Assuming 7 AS or more on a physical enemy: 18 Atk beats Wendy in 1 round. 13 Atk beats Wendy in 2 rounds. Even if they don't double, it's terrible. 27 Atk OHKOs Wendy (aka bosses). 18 Atk 2HKOs Wendy. 13 Atk 3HKOs Wendy. For magic, it's even worse. Pretty much all Mages have the required 7 AS + 11 Atk to one-round Wendy. Shamans might not double, but they still 2HKO. She does like 3-6 damage to most enemies using Iron, and nothing on Armors, and something like a 20 evade enemy gives her 59 hit: 66% real. Oftentimes, that's a 34% chance to miss, and when we're talking about Wendy, that's a 34% chance of death. If it was a kill we've been setting up for her, that is. If the enemy is on terrain or it's one of the hundred axemen on the Western Isles, the 2-RN system works against her. Yes, Wendy is abysmal when she joins; sadly, Yuno’s situation isn’t much better. When she joins, the only enemies that one round her are Mages, and that’s because she gets doubled. The majority of the enemies in this chapter are Knights, Soldiers and Archers, and these don’t double her, so it’s a two round, Yuno gets killed in two hits by almost everything, so she actually has similar durability in this regard. The difference in durability is that Wendy’s gets better and better, while Yuno gets 2HKO by physicals and even some magicals from start to finish. Thankfully, the Triangle Attack exists, which helps massively. That gives Wendy 100% hit and crit, so her skl problem is gone, with a Steel Lance + Triangle Attack, she can 1HKO soldiers and mages at base level. It also has a positive effect on Bors and Barth. You obviously aren’t going to triangle attack every single enemy, but it only needs to be used like twice per map and Wendy gained a level up. Wendy having hit under 50 is bull; a BASE level Wendy has 63.45 real hit on Steel Axe! Pirates, the only time she’s getting that terrible hit is if she’s wielding a Javelin and/or Steel Lance, but even that isn't likely since Wendy gets tons of hit from her supports. And Triangle attack gives her 100% accuracy. Quote: It gets worse. Wendy has 4 movement. She cannot keep up, she is completely inflexible. Every single enemy she wants to attack outranges her (except Armors, but she does 0 damage to those, and she lolties them in range anyway). She has to wait for enemies to get into her range to be allowed to attack them. As opposed to Yuno? Who can’t even move a few tiles before getting raped by the ballistae in her joining chapter? Wendy having 4 mov is only bad when everyone can use their move at their full extent, but the situation doesn’t present itself very often since most units are still fragile, so you’ll be using bottlenecks often, where Wendy can keep up with pplz. Her mov is only one point below “average” before promo, and then has normal mov when she promotes. How far you can move doesn’t make a difference if you can’t use it, a durable unit with 5 mov is better that a lolglass one with 8 mov. Kinda like when Wendy is put next to Yuno on lategame. Quote: To summarize, she has to be protected at all times from attacks, since 75% of the enemies kill her, and the rest brings her in KO range for the next guy. She has no offense at all. Only mages one round her, and in the western islands pirates are weighted down by their steel axes, so they don’t one round her even at base level. And mages completely disappear. If she’s finishing off something, she isn’t taking a counter, and she can take a hit. Quote: If you suck this bad, you are better off not existing. Like Juno. She's not there until Ch20. Wendy has been blowing everyone's dick for a good 11 chapters now. She used EXP and weapons and hurt your ranks for that long. Juno hasn't done anything negative like that. The problem with this is that Wendy starts to suck less and less dick as the game goes on, and from some point on she’s actually good, and from the start she has been padding the EXP rank, since she gets like 57 EXP when she kills something. Yuno, on the other side, sucks for the whole time she’s in play, and is never good at anything, she can’t pad the EXP rank since she’s on par with everyone’s level, she also rapes the combat and tactics rank because she’s god-awful at surviving and fighting. By chapter 17, for example, cavaliers have like 12.75 true hit on Wendy, and take 5 hits to kill her. Looks pretty good to me. Quote: Juno's mobility is also the complete opposite of Wendy's: she has the best of the entire team. She can transport people and visit villages and do other misc tasks without fighting. If she's in danger, it's very easy for her to fly out of it, since even Wyverns cannot keep up with her. If she has to fight, she can use Silver Lance to actually hurt things, or Iron Sword if she needs WTA over a Fighter, plus all her AS and as much hit as possible. She doesn't have to fight to best Wendy, but she's better at it when joining anyway. Except than being able to move further isn’t really worth anything if she can’t do so safely, Wendy is actually better off since her durability crushes Yuno’s, so she can move around more freely. Visiting villages is of absolutely no worth because they don’t even exist by the time Yuno joins, the only one you will see is the one where you can recruit Karel, but that has to be visited by Fir and/or Bartre. Transporting people is only useful in the earlygame because most people die in two or three hits or get one shotted and the team only has two very fragile healers. When Yuno joins, everyone is extremely durable and you have Physics staves to heal people at range, which actually gives EXP so it’s better. The only time it’s useful is when the attack will one round the unit even at full HP, but that NEVER happens lategame so it’s a moot point. Just staying away from enemies is of no worth since you get the same result by just rotting on the bench, Wendy not having to run away >>> that, and since most of her “misc” actions don’t even exists, the only thing she can do is fight, and that is obviously bad because she’s shit at it. Silver Lance!Yuno three rounds BISHOPS, and it makes her AS even worse, and thus her avo, which is all she can really rely on for surviving. Iron Sword!Yuno has decent avo against axes, but she only does 10 damage per hit when they have around 50 HP, and she is still getting hit by everything without an axe. Quote: To add to that, Juno costs you much less money. Wendy has to get a Knight Crest (from end of Ch16, obviously), and has been using weapons all along. Juno can be cheaper by using Silver all game long. You didn’t even give Wendy a Knight Crest in your comparison, so I don’t see how this point matters at all. Anyway, Yuno wins funds while Wendy is awesome for the EXP rank. Quote: Let's see how they compare when they're both there. Wendy joins partway through Ch8, so she can have 0.6 level from that. Then 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 for 1.3 levels each, and I guess she'll be brought into one gaiden, but not all of them. Wendy is your worst unit by a mile, and gaidens have limited space, so fielding her just hurts her case more. If you want to argue this, go ahead. It doesn't matter. If you don't field her, she gets less levels, and if you do field her, she just hurts your ranks more and uses more resources. Eh? How is Wendy getting 0.6 EXP? When she kills something she gets like 57 EXP, even if she joins halfway through, there are still plenty of enemies. Of course the fact that she sucks at fighting counters this, but two Triangle Attack 1HKO seem reasonable, 1.2 EXP kthx. I won’t argue the gaidens, but 1.3 levels implies that she only finished off two enemies in one chapter; chapters in FE6 are long, there’s enough turns for her to be able to finish more enemies, when she’s unpromoted she could possibly be gaining like 1.7 levels, which would be like at the end of chapter 16. Later, sure, 1.3 sounds better. So it’s more like around 15/8. Quote: So about 16 levels for Wendy, making her L17. 17 Wendy 10.4 atk, 9.4 AS, 25.1 hit, 4.5 crit - - 32.0 avo, 32.6 hp, 12.8 def, 2.6 res Iron Lance: 17.4 atk, 9.4 AS, 95.1 hit Javelin: 16.4 atk, 9.4 AS, 80.1 hit 29 Juno 11.0 atk, 16.0 AS, 34.8 hit, 6.8 crit - - 46.0 avo, 33.0 hp, 8.0 def, 12.0 res, 14.0 critavo Iron Lance: 18.0 atk, 15.0 AS, 104.8 hit - - 44.0 avo, 33.0 hp, 8.0 def, 12.0 res - - 42.0 avo Javelin: 17.0 atk, 12.0 AS, 89.8 hit - - 38.0 avo As you can see, Juno wins offense hands down already. Looking at Iron, 0.6 Atk, 5.6 AS and 9.7 Hit >>>>> 2.3 Crt. Defensively, 12 Avo, 0.4 HP and a massive 9.4 Res >>>>> 4.8 Def. Those shouldn't need explanation. Then on top of that, Juno has access to these if needbe: Silver Lance: 25.0 atk, 13.0 AS, 99.8 hit - - 40.0 avo Iron Sword: 16.0 atk, 16.0 AS, 119.8 hit - - 46.0 avo Note that Iron Sword makes Yuno win massively against axers (wins avoid by 34, and hit by 45...it's Yuno's guaranteed hit versus Wendy's Russian roulette). And on top of all this, Yuno has 4 move, flying and move again, plus rescue utility. You seem to have mysteriously forgotten that Wendy has supports, while Yuno doesn’t. Oujay A/Astohl B is her best set up. Another point for Wendy is that she helps her supporters as well; Oujay has a horrendous list of supporters, 80% of them suck and the other 20% have better options, but now that we are using Wendy, so that problem is gone. Sadly, Astohl is going supportless as well…oh wait; we are using Wendy, so he is also getting bonuses. And both supports increase by +2 so they don’t take much to be finished. Wendy can do with promoting early, as a sidenote, she gets pretty good bonuses in SPD and STR, 1 more mov and also gets axes, so it’s more convenient overall. 15/8 Wendy w/ A Oujay/B Astohl. Iron Axe: 28.0 atk, 15.0 AS, 123.3 hit, 31.3 crit - - 62.0 avo, 40.0 hp, 17.0 def, 6.0 res, 27.0 critavo Killer Axe: 31.0 atk, 15.0 AS, 123.3 hit, 61.3 crit - - 62.0 avo, 40.0 hp, 17.0 def, 6.0 res, 27.0 critavo Silver Lance: 34.0 atk, 15.0 AS, 123.3 hit, 31.3 crit - - 62.0 avo, 40.0 hp, 17.0 def, 6.0 res, 27.0 critavo 30 Yuno Iron Sword: 16.2 atk, 16.2 AS, 120.4 hit, 6.8 crit - - 46.9 avo, 33.5 hp, 8.1 def, 12.1 res, 14.5 critavo Silver Lance: 25.2 atk, 13.2 AS, 100.4 hit, 6.8 crit - - 40.9 avo, 33.5 hp, 8.1 def, 12.1 res, 14.5 critavo Wendy sure as hell is looking better; let’s compare how they do defensively against some enemies. Wyvern riders have like 90 hit and 30 atk... Wendy has Axes to control WTA, so the Wyvern only has 6.66% real hit on Wendy and does 12 damage, so he 4HKOs. At Yuno’s best, the Wyvern has 37.41% real hit on her, and this implies she’s wielding a slim lance, she gets WTA with an Iron Sword and looses avo with Silver/Iron. She also dies in 2 hits even when they wield a Javelin. Wyvern Lords have 107 hit and 38 atk... This enemy leaves Yuno with 8HP, enough for Bishops to finish her off, while Wendy takes 20 damage, so it’s a 2HKO, Wendy only needs to gain a level up and it becomes a 3HKO, so it’s rather moot. They have 24.85 real on Wendy and 68.40 on Yuno. Yuno gets two shotted by everything but Bishops and a few mages, while Wendy is actually durable and can get WTA against everything since she has Axereaver, Yuno can’t use Lancereaver because she starts with a shit E in swords. Wendy only needs 1 point in speed and she’s one rounding archers, while Yuno’s best is three rounding Bishops. Yuno six rounds Wyvern Riders with a silver lance. So when Yuno joins, Wendy is crushing her in combat, misc BS don’t matter as it doesn’t exist/ is worthless. Quote: This opener is long enough now. As you can see, Yuno is more useful (or should I say less useless) when she's not there, but even when she arrives, she spanks Wendy's pink bottom when it comes to combat AND is good for other things. Even if Wendy wins endgame, it won't matter much. She will never win by as much as Yuno beat her, and Yuno auto-wins the Mamkute chapter anyway, since she outranges Mamkutes. Never thought I'd say this, but Yuno >>>> The difference is that when you use Yuno, all you get a shit unit that sucks through the whole time she’s available. If you use Wendy, you also get a shit unit, but you also get EXP rank pad and an actually good unit at the later part of the game. Wendy starts off very bad, but her problems matter less and less and gets to a point where she helps you, while Yuno starts off nearly as bad, while her more problems matter more and more. And mamkutes 1HKO Yuno, so no, she’s not better off. Wendy can actually hurt them because she has the opportunity to use Malte, while Yuno can’t, and doesn’t die in one hit. If Wendy’s shit then Yuno is diarrhea.


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