Viewing Single Post From: Mekkah vs Kratos

Viewing Single Post From: Mekkah vs Kratos
Big Boss	Jun 28 2008, 10:50 PM
Posts: 650 Group: FEFFer Member #890 Joined: August 19, 2006	Quote: In the left corner, we have Ninian, who is actually a dragon. In the right corner, we have Erk, who is a male Mage on his period. Yep, looks like an easy match for Ninian. Do I need to mention Ninian comes back from the dead and freezes not one but two Ice Dragons? Ninian would be better off if she had killed herself when imprisioned at the dragon's gate so Nergal wouldn't have been able to call dragons.Then she pretty much caused Elbert's death. Doesn't surprise me that Eliwood didn't want to spend even a single night at Pherae after Athos transported them, considering that bish was with them, and could kill his mum now. Also, Ninian's face looks like "Hey! I'm being forced to be a prostitute" and that gives you a horrible reputation. I mean, as the tactician, you are in charge of the "management" of the units. Quote: The thing with Erk vs Ninian is that Erk is only one unit. Not a bad one at any rate, but not the best. That alone gives Ninian an edge, because she can be the best: everytime she dances for a unit better than Erk, such as Kent or Raven, Ninian is the best. Aforementioned units have more offense than Erk, so anytime that offense is needed, I'd rather have Ninian than Erk on my team to let one of these two units use their offense. No, not necessarily. If both Erk and Raven/Kent can kill the enemy it doesn't matter if the latter have a couple more points in raw power, so Ninian is being just as good as Erk, but not better, combat wise. However, Erk actually does better against stuff like Wyverns or armors, and Erk attacks enemy phase, so he potentially kills and/or damages more units than Ninian, even if she was as good at player phase. As far as combat goes, Ninian is worse or equal to Erk. Quote: Ninian allows you to choose between which unit to refresh, which is a huge advantage. A unit like Erk can only do what his class allows him to. Ninian can make people steal, fight, seize, heal, rescue, drop, move, talk, support, trade, anything you want, and the player can pick which. Huge edge. Fortunately, Erk's class grants him the two most important abilities: attacking and healing. Erk does the best possible action nearly all the time. As for other actions: Steal: by the time Ninian joins, thieves only purpose to be deployed is to steal. As they focus almost 100% on their job, they won't need any assistance. Seize: suppose there is a chapter with an 18 turn limit to get 5 stars in tactics. You get to seize in 15 turns but thanks to Ninian you seize in 14. Not a considerable benefit, as you already were within the required limit. Of course, you could also go an say "what if you arrive at turn 18 and thanks to Ninian you don't wait until turn 19?". Well, that is highly unlikely. As tacticians who attempt to S rank HHM, we are smart enough and know the game well enough to seize a few turns before the limit. Also, at non seize chapters, this argument is completely pointless. Then stuff like rescue and talk are moar unlikely. Quote: It should also be noted that Ninian increases people's mobility, something that Erk cannot simulate at all. She can dance for people who have been dropped after rescuing, or simply dance after they already moved and did something. She can make Hector seize a turn earlier, making the chapter a turn shorter. Dancing is not only not the only way to increase mobility but also not the more efficient. Combat is. This game is mainly about combat, there is combat in your turn, and even more combat than that during the enemy phase, as they get to move more units and always play all offensive. So, Ninian can go and dance for someone and call it a day. Erk stays there and receives attacks and kills, and since there are less enemies by the time it's your turn, the group as a whole increases it's mobility. Imagine if Ninian was the one who got attacked. The enemies would be alive and some of your units would have to slow down during your turn instead of further advancing. Quote: Ninian also adds EXP rank. I'll admit Erk does this as well with healing, but oftentimes his healing does not add, but merely replace, like when I have less healers than I have wounds. He also only adds 5 EXP per heal, while Ninian adds 10 EXP per dance, EXP that you could not have gotten ever otherwise. Attacking also adds exp rank. Everyone helps exp rank. But Ninian getting "unique" experience doesn't mean it adds more experience. Quote: Then Ninian has her personal rings, which Erk simply has no answer to. Nini's Grace makes Lucius look like Hector, Fila's Might gives Matthew Raven-like power, Thor's Ire turns any unit into a Swordmaster, etc. They will be particulary handy on bosses and in the final chapter, and Ninian is the only one who can bring them to the team (except Nils, but for all intends and purposes he is the same unit). ~~No way! Lucius still looks girly after Nini's Grace~~ Fila's Might is not that h4x. Matthew doesn't rly attack very much, and besides, if you need more powah, you can just attack->dance->attack and the combat unit gets more experience than if he had killed in just one round. Then Thor's Ire. +10 Crt is lol. attack->dance->attack is more reliable. And most bosses are pansies, anyway. Quote: Ninian is also the cheapest unit in the game. She costs absolutely nothing at all. Erk uses tomes all game long, staves for half of it, and a Guiding Ring. Ninian is so cheap that you might be able to incorporate someone like Farina or Dart in your team and still S-rank funds. Those two jump an entire tier or more at such a notion. Erk has no such advantage. OK? Thanks to Matthew, we don't really care about the funds rank. Quote: "Ninian is worse than an Archer on enemy phase!" Ninian is much better off, since she does not have to be on the frontline to be helpful. Also, her presence alone allows you to position your units better due to the mobility increase you give them. Archers also not need to be in the frontline. They can easily be behind your combat units so the only way they can get attacked is from a distance. They have a chance to counter. Ninian doesn't. Both an archer and Ninian force you to put extra work in your formation but the archer has more move so is more flexible itself, for whatever that's worth, even tough Ninian's dance is better for positioning purpose, BUT, if Ninian is being used a given turn just to reposition a unit so Ninian herself doesn't get attacked, then she was pretty useless that turn. Quote: "Ninian gets left behind due to 5 mov" There is no incentive at all to leave Ninian behind the others, simply because the benefits of having her dance are so enormous. Note that Hero Raven is better off if he moves 3 squares, then Ninian dances, then he moves 6 more, than if he just moves 6 off the bat. Note also that Hector moves at exactly the same pace as Ninian, and that people moving ahead rids them of their support bonuses. wait, what? your last point said Ninian isn't at the frontline while now you say there is no incentive at all to leave Ninian behind the others. Contradiction too much? Anyway, if Ninian does what you said with Raven, then there's not much use for a unit going solo and leaving support partners, unless there's an enemy or something. At any rate, when that happens then Raven leaves behind the rest of the team, which doesn't seem like a fantastic idea to me. And yes, she moves at the same rate as ppl like Hector and Osw1n, but since they are so near each other, she can dance for them and eventually she gets left behind. If Ninian increases the team's mobility as much as you say, she's bound to get left behind at some point. If she doesn't get left behind, then the team's mobility didn't get increased by such a great amount. With this I cover what you said, but you forgot 2 important points I wanna bring to the debaet: 1.-Joining time: Erk joins more than 7 chapters earlier and is one of your most valuale units. He joins with good stats thanks to Lyn's crappy mode, he is the only one that targets RES until Lucius joins (and even then, Erk is still better), has 1-2 range, which is pretty amazing since Javelins and stuff suck and ppl who use them aren't h4x enough, and he becomes a healer (possibly the best until Pent joins) before Ninian even joins. Then Ninian is there for like, half the time Erk exists and later disapoofs during the chapter with Denning. 2.-Supports: ppl love Erk. Units like Priscilla and Serra would love to support him and later Pent also is a good option. On the other hand, Ninian has Eliwood, who is getting A Hector almost always and can support someone like Lowen and Marcus for equal or better bonuses that are active earlier and that don't disappear during the last chapters of the game. Then Hawkeye is not very good and Wind-Ice is lol. Florina is ok, I suppose, but it is a hard to build support as she's a flier and fliers don't stay behind for the only purpose of supporting. That should do for now.
	^^by comatose from NationalSigLeague^^ Kratos/Jeigan

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