| Viewing Single Post From: Mekkah vs CATS | |
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| Mekkah | Jul 6 2008, 08:12 AM |
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Since quote tags have turned on me again, I decided to use code ones. This should suit your imaginative all_your_base voice.
If I'm 10 years old and debating FE like this, I don't really have maturity issues, do I? But yes, Pink Power Ranger > Joshua. Go out on the streets and ask them if they know who Joshua of Jehanna is, and who Pink Power Ranger is. Or, if you prefer, show them pics and ask them to name them. It's clear that PPR has more street credz than Joshua.
And they are always 3 spaces away from the enemy? You didn't even present an argument about why that would even be the case most of the time. I like how you picked one of the two possibilities that ties Joshua's amount of possibilities with Neimi's. spaces away = unit x, unit y 1 = Neimi 8, Joshua 4 2 = Neimi 8, Joshua 4 3 = Neimi 3, Joshua 3 4 = Neimi 3, Joshua 1 5 = Neimi 1, Joshua 1 6 = Neimi 1, Joshua 0 And with Longbow, this win remains, it just adds 12 possible squares around the enemy. Of course, she would only be using Longbow when its statistical drawbacks are not an issue, but those situations happen, and it's better than nothing (which is what Joshua can do at 3-range).
It matters anytime there's an enemy at 6 squares away, I don't know where you get the idea that that is equivalent to having higher Hit on accurate units such as Joshua and Neimi (if this were Bartre vs Eliwood or FE6 or something, maybe). Interestingly, units do move at their full move potential pretty often, especially once midgame picks up and coolbeans like Franz start one-rounding enemies on enemy phase. And if they're not moving their full potential, they are quite possibly blocked by enemies, which means Neimi has something to attack more often than Joshua does (since your units are occupying a space in front of the enemy, quite possibly the closest to the rest of your team).
You are guilty of the same thing, just with Natasha, who is apparently "top tier". Except Natasha has it even worse, since she never counters, not even ranged enemies. Either way, if you aren't using Natasha, you are probably using Moulder, if only because of
But also because healers are hax (adding durability, seperate EXP pool, etc...I doubt I will need to elaborate further, but if you want to argue that all of a sudden Neimi's team does not have a healer, go ahead). Which means you are already obligated to protecting a PC. When such is a given, the burden of protecting Neimi is extremely light, most of the time even not noticed, since you were already protecting enemies from accessing any spaces around your healer. 4 spaces next to your healer + 8 at 2-range of them is already 12 (yes, even if all your other units have 1-range equipped, the enemy will prioritize on your healer for their inherent lower HP/Def), and Neimi pretty much adds 0 to those if you place her next to the healer. And Lute and Arthur also need protection early on, since they can often be exposed to a max of one, two enemies at this point, so it becomes even more of a non-issue.
Only Eirika, Marisa and unpromoted Gerik share Joshua's lock to 1-range, all others do have access to 2-range. With lesser stats, yes, but they are there, and you will be equipping them when facing a multitude of 2-range enemies, because obviously doing damage on enemy phase > not doing so. If I want to efficiently do this, I'd have to withdraw Joshua and anyone else with his problem completely, because they will priotize on him when given the choice. The fact that half his team shares a problem does not make it less of a problem for Joshua - if I have a whole bundle of PCs I can send to counter 1-range enemies reliably, but only a few who have good 2-range, I will take the 2-ranger (heh, excuse the pun). Despite the majority of enemies apparently being 1-range, it's the ones with range that are more dangerous (for the same reason Neimi's range > Joshua: because they can reach further and from more spots).
The not recorded part is where Hand Axe Pirates, Javelin Cavs and friends all pop up, so while I agree that the trend doesn't reverse or anything, it does tilt over a bit more towards more ranged combat.
Pretending the difference between them on countering 1-2 range enemies is small surely must be a joke. As you said, Joshua requires quite a lot more to do it, and when you do it you aren't even gonna be sure they will go for Joshua, since you need other PCs to do it, and those all need to equip 1-2 range weapons. With Neimi, you can be pretty much making sure they attack her and only her.
If there's walls in play with enemies on the other side, such as in ![]() as well as Ch14 (both routes), it takes Neimi just as long as Lute to counter them. Josh cannot do it at all. Lol @
It may as well not exist. It exists only after Ch19, other sword users such as Colm may want it, and it requires you to go out of your way and save the NPC Knights in Ch19. You know, those things that get one-rounded by everything in that chapter that rush to get themselves killed on the first enemy they see. If you're going to make a point of the Orion's Bolt being hard to get, I don't think you should be bringing this one up. Plus, all it does is pretty much taking enemy priority away from Joshua for when he has it equipped, since it completely rapes his offense at a distance: halved attack hitting on Res (which is lower usually, but not always, such as on eyeballs, and it also negates his critical completely). It's like me arguing for Short Bow having crit or something.
Allow me to rephrase it a bit: Neimi can more easily attack from behind walls than Joshua. Logical for player phase, I should not need to explain that, but yes, the fact that she can counter from back there is important, for one because this way you can force ranged enemies into taking a counter by equipping others with 1-2 range weapons, or if you're not doing that, it makes Neimi less likely to be attacked than Joshua to begin with.
Do not pretend you are going to train Colm and support him with Neimi only to ditch him later for someone else, only to rob Neimi of her mid and late supports. What you're saying is that there's not enough midgame unit slots to field Colm in addition to your entire fighting squad. Fortunately, you do. You get 11 or 12 unit slots in midgame for both routes. An example team: 1. Ephraim or Eirika 2. Joshua or Neimi 3. Moulder or Natasha 4. Tana or Vanessa 4. Franz 5. Lute 6. Seth 7. Tethys 8. Arthur I have 3-4 slots leftover, and I'm pretty much out of rly good units (or assumed units). I suppose on #9 there's Duessel for Eph route and Saleh for Eirika (though note that these, as well as a few others such as Tethys, are not in the Pick Unit menu for 2-3 chapters), but from there we get units that Colm can easily spar with when it comes to combat worth. There'S Gerik (Eir) or Cormag (Eph), Kyle, Forde and Ross, but I'd have to play all of those in order for not having room for Colm to be in play. Well, there's also Garcia and Gilliam, but if those are in play Neimi will simply support them. And remember, Colm only has to tie these units in combat to get a spot, since he gets the benefit of combat + thievery. And this is assuming I'm using a huge team. Using a small team of wtfrape units is a pretty good option too, for example just sticking to the above 8, and then I always have room for Colm. Also, I hope you realize that arguments against Colm as a combat unit ("once other people double, less impressive") largely apply to Joshua as well? Of course Colm doesn't really care, since he can do quite a bit of combat. Like, comparing him to Gerik, Cormag, Kyle, Forde and Ross using your favourite method. I'll start the comparison at halfway through Ch10, since this is when Cormag and Gerik join on their respective routes, and because you said Colm wasn't getting a spot midgame obviously. Normal amount is like 1.35 per map. Colm gets more than that due to his EXP bonus, then a bit less due to thievery, so I put him at 1.7 per map. Kyle and Forde got 5 levels each in 5x, then the normal amount for 8, 9 and half of 10. Ross probably took two or three maps to get to normal Fighter stage, and can then have about the same as Colm per map, putting him at 10/10). Gerik and Cormag join as noobs, so they join at 9 or 10 and gain the normal amount (less good at combat vs gaining above average EXP cancels out). Colm is pretty damn close to A Neimi if he doesn't have it already, and he also has got C Moulder at the time (7.5 maps, both of these require 41 turns, so it's like 6 turns per map, lol). Kyle and Forde can have each other, and I'll just go ahead and give both Ephraim, who gives them pretty much the best bonuses (so no complaining about Eirika route existing please). Ross only has C Loot here because his only other viable supports are Gerik (who only just joined) and Garcia (who would support Neimi as well, which means Colm no longer needs to be fielded in order for Neimi to have supports). Numbercrunching: 12 Colm - A Neimi, C Moulder: 12.0 atk, 16.5 AS, 39.0 hit, 20.8 crit - - 55.5 avo, 25.5 hp, 07.5 def, 5.0 res 12 Forde - B Kyle, C Ephraim: 11.8 atk, 11.2 AS, 42.5 hit, 15.5 crit - - 38.9 avo, 29.9 hp, 10.4 def, 4.8 res 11 Kyle - B Forde, C Ephraim: 13.5 atk, 09.0 AS, 34.3 hit, 13.8 crit - - 32.0 avo, 29.2 hp, 11.2 def, 3.0 res 10 Gerik - no supports noobs: 14.0 atk, 13.0 AS, 29.8 hit, 06.3 crit - - 34.0 avo, 32.0 hp, 10.0 def, 4.0 res 09 Cormag - same as above,,,: 14.0 atk, 10.0 AS, 19.8 hit, 04.3 crit - - 24.0 avo, 30.0 hp, 12.0 def, 2.0 res 10 Ross - C Lute, no'ne else: 17.0 atk, 08.4 AS, 28.0 hit, 06.4 crit - - 37.0 avo, 29.6 hp, 07.5 def, 4.6 res On the offense, Colm is owning everyone badly in AS. He's doubling everything pretty much, and he can trade his AS for Atk if needbe, while the others cannot do the reverse. After considering that, the only person with a substantial Atk lead over Colm is Ross, but Ross' Spd is so bad (Iron Blade Colm still beats him by 2, lol) and he gets rickrolled in the leftover two parameters, so Colm beats him two. Defensively, Colm again shows off his swiftness, owning everyone by like 20 avo on average, which is obviously huge in a 2-RN system. Something with 90 Hit has 23.46% real on Colm, while it has 52.47% real on Forde (who has the next highest Avo). More than twice as likely to get hit ftw. That > stupid 5-7 HP/~3 Def wins (especially since the Avo gap is even larger when not comparing to Forde but say, Kyle), and Colm whipes it up with a small but existant Res lead. Cormag brings flying, but also bow weak and not getting terrain bonuses, so let's not get into that. What's left is the access of 2-range of a few others, but that also rapes their combat parameters more. Kyle, Forde and Cormag also have 1 more mov than Colm, but Colm also has 1 more mov than Gerik and Ross. I don't see anyone of these claiming a victory over Colm, in fact, it's more like the opposite. So when we consider that when we field one of these, we get combat, while Colm brings combat and thief utility, Colm gets the spot over them. And I'd like to remind you that even if you object, that that three of these need to be in play for Colm to not get a spot in 11-unit chapters, and four of them for Colm not to get a spot in 12-unit chapters. Now, Colm will keep his level lead thanksto EXP bonus and better combat. You said Ch14 is a around when people promote, so let's do it there then, equalize their levels, but put Colm three ahead. Ross and Cormag should be the only one without full supports by now. Promoted classes are Rogue, GK, GK, Hero, Wyvern Lord and Hero respectively btw. 20/5 Colm - A Neimi, B Moulder____: 18.8 atk, 22.4 AS, 56.3 hit, 26.6 crit - - 74.7 avo, 36.5 hp, 13.5 def, 10.4 res 20/2 Forde - A Kyle, B Ephraim____: 18.4 atk, 17.2 AS, 65.0 hit, 25.3 crit - - 59.0 avo, 40.6 hp, 14.2 def, 8.0 res 20/2 Kyle - A Forde, B Ephraim____: 21.5 atk, 15.0 AS, 55.3 hit, 23.3 crit - - 51.0 avo, 40.7 hp, 15.7 def, 6.0 res 20/2 Gerik - A Tethys, B Ross_____: 21.8 atk, 18.3 AS, 56.2 hit, 34.5 crit - - 72.9 avo, 45.9 hp, 17.8 def, 10.8 res 20/2 Cormag - C Duessel, C Natasha: 22.9 atk, 15.4 AS, 42.5 hit, 12.7 crit - - 49.0 avo, 44.2 hp, 18.0 def, 4.8 res 20/2 Ross - B Lute, B Gerik_______: 23.9 atk, 13.7 AS, 49.8 hit, 22.3 crit - - 67.0 avo, 41.3 hp, 14.2 def, 10.8 res Now, what is new on the offense? Colm is still raping AS like before, that's what. Again, such a win easily overrides the small Atk win anyone has (Ross' Atk win has fluctuated now btw, and his AS loss has grown). The only one who stands a chance offensively is Gerik, who wins 3 Atk and 8 Crt versus Colm's 4 AS, so that is still arguable. Defensively, Colm beats everyone with Avo again, though thanks to the presence of supports he no longer wtfrapes Gerik and Ross. Kyle, Forde and Cormag still get owned too badly by the Avo and Res wins. I'll give Ross and Gerik a fairer shot now, though it should be noted that Colm is helping his support partner more than Tethys, for known reasons (Tethys cannot attack, so offense is worthless, and because of this her defensives is a lot less significant as well). Averages between these two points for the overall picture, because you love those so much: Colm: 15.4 atk, 19.45 AS, 47.65 hit, 23.7 crit - - 65.1 avo, 31 HP, 10.5 def, 7.7 res Forde: 15.1 atk, 14.2 AS, 53.75 hit, 20.4 crit - - 48.95 avo, 35.25 HP, 12.3 def, 6.4 res Kyle: 17.5 atk, 12 AS, 44.8 hit, 18.55 crit - - 41.5 avo, 34.95 HP, 13.45 def, 4.5 res Gerik: 17.9 atk, 15.65 AS, 43 hit, 20.4 crit - - 53.45 avo, 38.95 HP, 13.9 def, 7.4 res Cormag: 18.45 atk, 12.7 AS, 31.15 hit, 8.5 crit - - 36.5 avo, 37.1 HP, 15 def, 3.4 res Ross: 20.45 atk, 11.05 AS, 38.9 hit, 14.35 crit - - 52 avo, 35.45 HP, 10.85 def, 7.7 res Forde gets beaten on every offense parameter except for 6 hit, and then 16 avo + 1 res vs 4 hp and 2 def isn't enough win for Forde (if it even is) to overcome that. Kyle wins 2 Atk, but he loses a massive 7 AS and then a bit of 5 Crt, so again offense to Colm. Colm rapes avo and res even more badly than in the previous case of Forde, and 1 more Def than Forde had isn't going to save that, especially since Kyle also has a bit less HP. Next is 2 Atk for Gerik vs 4 AS, 4 hit and 3 Crt for Colm, so Colm wins. 11.5 Avo and 0.3 Res vs 8 HP and 3.4 Def would be a victory for Gerik though, but not benefitting supporters as much as Colm does gives the edge to Colm. Cormag on the offense is like Kyle, except in a more extreme way - 1 more Atk and 0.7 AS for losing even worse in Hit and crt, and Colm has almost twice as much Avo as he does and 4 more Res, so 6 HP and 4.5 Def cannot win that for him. Ross and his 5 Atk win cannot get past 8 AS and the hit/crt wins for Colm. Defensively, it's 13 avo vs 4.45 HP and 0.3 Def. Logic dictates that Colm's offense win is far bigger than any victory you could argue for Ross. Nobody has a victory over Colm in combat, many have a loss, so it logically follows that Colm brings more to the table, since not only he matches their combat, he also has the thief utility. If by any chance you are pointing out so many wrongs and mistakes with this series of comparisons that you think the conclusion is false, you must keep in mind that Colm only has to beat 2-3 of them to get a spot, and that he will still be played sometimes even if he is inferior, and that even if Colm is not played, there are also Gilliam and Garcia waiting in line to support Neimi. Oh, also
I see you neglected to mention that the same happens to Moulder/Natasha if you replace Colm with either of them. Interesting. You also forgot that chapters aren't divided into a section for Colm to do thief duties and a section for everyone else to fight in. Chest rooms are found in sideways of the fray, stealing is done on enemies within there, desert items are scattered throughout the entire map along with enemies and fog of war is all around you. Colm is definitely not going to be seperated, or if he is, it's only to get a few chests. On the way there and after that, Colm is indeed with Neimi and Moulder, and in quite some chapters chest rooms even have enemies - Ch14 (both routes), Ch17, Final are just examples, and the others such as Ch9 Eph and Ch19 still require combat to get to the chest room. Your next paragraph has now largely been addressed...
though there's one more thing I'd like to say about it. You say Natasha is toptier and assume she's always there to support Joshua. Take into account that you generally only want to use one healer, since two healers will be hurting each other's EXP pool by 50%, and the second healer isn't adding nearly as much durability as the first, since enemies tend to focus on injuring only one PC unit, and they become relatively less threatening as the game progresses. I would rather have an extra unit to attack with on player phase. This means you'd quite often only use one healer, and Moulder is considered better. Like at base: 5 Moulder 5 Mag - 21.0 avo, 21.4 hp, 2.5 def, 5.5 res 1 Natasha 2 Mag - 22.0 avo, 18.0 hp, 2.0 def, 6.0 res This is only the beginning, but Natasha can never close the level gap because of fixed staff EXP, and Moulder is ahead with building supports. It can safely be said that when using one healer, 50% of the time at least it will be Moulder, and if Joshua is making me use Natasha, that makes him lose out on a support 50% of the time. Or, if you prefer looking at it this way, if Joshua forces me to use Natasha rather than Moulder, his value is lowered by as much as the difference in performance between Natasha and Moulder. Moulder is also Vanessa's best support, and the two together add Anima/Anima support bonuses to the team, while the Joshua/Natasha support is nothing special (Wind/Ice would suck even if Wind wasn't useless for Natasha to begin with).
Note how I simply gave Joshua his Arthur support in my comparison - I'm not denying him it. I'm just saying that if Arthur had to choose, he would take Neimi. Neimi is pretty much the best option for all her supporters because of her affinity, and vice versa, Joshua is pretty much the worst in that aspect. The reason Natasha takes him anyway is support speed, though it makes very little difference for her to take Seth or Franz instead, especially since the time where a Joshua support would be at a higher level are often the times where Natasha is unpromoted and thus is largely not using her bonuses. Yes, if I am using Joshua, I will give him Natasha and Arthur, and I will move over Lute somewhere else, because a fully supported team is a main goal. However, if I have to go out of my way for that for Joshua, that is a point against him. Lute is better off with Arthur A, and if adding Joshua to my team means that she cannot have that, but instead must switch over to, say, Ross A, then Joshua's value is lowered by as much as the difference between these supports. In this case, that is mostly support speed (15+3 >>>> 5+2). Neimi does the exact opposite: without her, Colm has to resort to someone like Kyle for 5+2 on a later chapter, but thanks to Neimi he gets 80+3 on an earlier one. Also, Kyle and Ross are both mid tierish units, so if putting Joshua on my team means Lute needs mid tiers to be in play to get supports...yep, that is the same disadvantage you were harping on Colm on. Except Kyle and Ross don't add thievery to the team and aren't as good as Colm at combat to begin with.
Indeed, being good is in direct correlation with being used. If Joshua in play means that other units are less likely to be used, this makes them less good. This is like going "yeah, so what if Kent uses a Knight Crest that Sain/Oswin/Lowen want - if their play creates promotion issues, they will not be played". Joshua is using a resource that other units want too (and by just as much), and saying "they won't be in play because Joshua gets the resource" doesn't solve it. Making other units less likely to be played aka more suck = lose.
Units sometimes want to promote earlier, like to get new weapons, a crit bonus, more mov and better stats earlier in the game. Those bonuses overrides lower EXP gain pretty easily. Like, lower EXP gain means they might miss out on maybe a level or two or so in total if you promote somewhere between 15 and 20 rather than stricly at 20, but that will only affect them later, and promotion bonuses alone can be compared to the result of several level-ups, and on top of that there's these other gains. In this game, people don't reach 20/20 ever, so that doesn't matter either. So yes, this is a point against Joshua.
Huh? I can just as well sell the Hero Crest for 5k as well. Joshua not being in play does not guarantee another Hero Crester entering the team. Or if it was, you're just proving my point that Joshua is booting out other Hero Crest users, thereby making them worse. Joshua's promotion item must be consumed by Joshua when it could be sold for 5k or given to another unit. Neimi's promotion item must be consumed by Neimi when it could be sold for 5k. Neimi's situation >>>
If you don't do it when you're not playing Neimi, then you also miss out on the 5k you were hyping in the previous paragraph...anyway, Vanessa and Lute/Arthur together can easily block the Bael's way to the civilians, and kill it even at base level, and get there with no risk as long as you know enemy positions (which you know, because they're not variable, and Colm + Torch sees a million squares wide). You were going to do this for the 5k anyway, so you still would for Neimi promoting. Again, funny how you make a point of this but mention Light Brand for Joshua.
Your comparison between them is pretty ghey. For one, Neimi is missing 3 support levels, which even if Colm is not a perm-team member, she should have in some other way. If the plan is for Colm to be stopped fielding at some point, you can always kill him off to free up support space (there's no Survival ranking, so I don't see why you would care). For two, you go "lol superior flexibility" for early game, but completely disregard this advantage for Neimi later on, when Neimi has 1-3 range over Joshua's 1-range, as well as two more move and an occasional move again. And for three, it's interesting how taking the former into account, Joshua is still gaining 11 levels in the same time that Neimi is gaining 9. I thought equal EXP gains but superior flexibility meant the other meant the other gained more...if you'd like to withdraw those words, then there's no real point in Joshua having a 3 level lead over Neimi on promotion point either. Last but not at least, you managed to neglect this notion of the first post by only posting their raw stats: In addition to this, Neimi gets better weaponry. Nobody else mains bows except Innes, and he sucks. This means goodies such as Killer/Brave/Silver Bow and indeed Nidhogg are pretty much hers for taking - indeed, she's adding the offense of that to the team, as it's highly likely you would not have had them otherwise. The list of other units that can use good swords is much larger: Seth, Franz, Kyle, Forde, Eirika, Gerik and Colm, for one. There's more units who can use swords and will probably reach C at least, such as Falco Tana/Vanessa, Gilliam, Hero Ross, Hero Garcia and even Neimi herself. Meanwhile, the only other units who can even weild bows are Warrior Garcia, Ranger Gerik and Warrior Ross, and the Warriors are inferior promotion paths due to the lack of Spd gain upon promotion, which these units so desperately need. The main part of this is obviously that Neimi automatically wins offense for 18, 19, 20 and Final. Always getting Nidhogg > getting Audhulma and taking it away from someone else, so basically not adding it to the team but merely moving it from unit to unit. So I'll redo your comparison, and again assume full supports for both (but keeping in mind this is more likely to happen for Neimi than for Joshua, and that she's helping supporters more due to better affinity and Natasha being a non-combat unit for half of the game). I've given Neimi the average of B Garcia/B Gilliam - they won't always be played, but sometimes they are, and their combined chance of being in play is pretty good, especially considering Neimi makes them better and they have other supporters that like them as well. 5 Neimi (C Colm) 6.8 atk, 8.4 AS, 8.3 crit - - 24.8 avo, 19.2 hp, 3.6 def, 3.4 res 17 Neimi (A Colm, average of B Garcia/B Gilliam) 15.7 atk, 15.6 AS, 31.3 crit - - 60.2 avo, 25.8 hp, 6.9 def, 9.1 res Average: 11.25 atk, 12 AS, 19.8 crit - - 42.5 avo, 22.5 hp, 5.25 def, 6.25 res 5 Joshua 8.0 atk, 14.0 AS, 6.3 crit - - 35.0 avo, 24.0 hp, 5.0 def, 2.0 res 20 Joshua (B Natasha, B Arthur) 15.2 atk, 19.9 AS, 19.6 crit - - 61.3 avo, 36.0 hp, 10.0 def, 7.0 res Average: 11.6 atk, 16.95 AS, 12.95 crit - - 48.15 avo, 30 hp, 7.5 def, 4.5 res I won't lie to you, he still wins this by: 0.25 atk, 4.95 AS, 13.15 avo, 6 HP, 2.5 def and flex vs 6.85 crt, 1.75 res and benefitting supporters more. However, now promotion rolls around. Seeing as Joshua got a 3 level lead for his superior flexibility, it's only fair to give the same three levels back to Neimi in the end. If not moreso. 1-range vs 2-range is arguable, as demonstrated in the very first paragraph, but I've given you the benefit of the doubt here. Neimi has 1-3 range versus 1-range now, and more movement, so if anything she should be getting more out of it. 20/1 Joshua (B Natasha, B Arthur) 17.2 atk, 19.9 AS, 24.6 crit - - 61.3 avo, 41.0 hp, 12.0 def, 8.0 res 20/10 Joshua (A Natasha, B Arthur...or vice versa) 20.4 atk, 24.8 AS, 39.1 crit - - 75.8 avo, 48.2 hp, 13.8 def, 9.8 res Average: 18.8 atk, 22.35 AS, 31.85 crit - - 68.55 avo, 44.6 hp, 12.9 def, 8.9 res 17/1 Neimi (A Colm, average of B Garcia/B Gilliam) 17.7 atk, 16.6 AS, 32.3 crit - - 62.2 avo, 27.8 hp, 9.9 def, 11.9 res 17/13 Neimi (A Colm, average of B Garcia/B Gilliam) 22.1 atk, 23.7 AS, 35 crit - - 90.4 avo, 34.4 hp, 10.7 def, 15.3 res Average: 19.9 atk, 20.15 AS, 33.65 crit - - 76.3 avo, 31.1 hp, 10.3 def, 13.6 res So for comparing them: Offense - Neimi's 1.1 atk, 1.8 crit vs Joshua's 2.2 AS. 2.2 AS is easy to belittle when both of them have so much of it (and thus double anyways). Any lead you could squeeze out of Joshua for this gets instantly whammo'd by Neimi's now superior flexibility and being able to use better weapons more often. Defense - Neimi has 7.75 avo and 4.7 res, Joshua has 11.5 hp and 2.6 def. Like before, it seems Joshua wins on raw stats, and like before, Neimi easily overcomes all of this with taking less counters (less as in, she pretty much never has to, while Joshua nearly always has to) and again superior flexibility (think using terrain/supporters more often). So what do we have? Earlygame win vs lategame win. Well, we know which one is more relevant by now. Lategame has huger maps and more enemies, so lategame is more relevant. Of course Neimi also has range win, support win, promo win and stuff to rub salt in Joshua's wound. Pink Power Ranger >>> |
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| Mekkah vs CATS · Debate Challenges | |






1:12 PM Nov 25






