Viewing Single Post From: Final Tier List?

Viewing Single Post From: Final Tier List?
Mekkah	Sep 8 2008, 01:37 AM
Posts: 667 Group: FEFFer Member #1,400 Joined: July 24, 2007	Quote: Even if you're not using Harken, you're losing out on a weapon that lets slow people double or lets you not take counters. On top of not getting the weapon as well as a very good unit, you're getting a sucky unit. Karel is abysmal. His durability is nearly bottom tier due to his terrible HP and his Def is nothing special. He also not only lacks supports in general, but his affinity sucks for not giving Evd. People double anyway, since enemies are slow ass. The only person this sword makes a difference for is Lowen. He has 55 base evade, which is fine since enemies carry lolSteel now, and 56.5 base Crt, that soon turns into 61 due to S Swords. And then 130% evade growth. Like Jaffar, he doubles those ass Valkyries at base level. He didn't cost anything yet, so he can use Lancereavers (you can buy them in FFO and Battle Preparations) which give 30% evade and 2 Def against lancers. Any support difference between Karel and Harken is lol. By the time they get a C with anyone, the game is about over. The people Harken supports pretty much support each other fine too, and obviously they'd prefer supports that start before endgame. Quote: Lots of time, not really lots of supports. You appeared to have completely skipped the Pirate Ship chapter, which easily gives Florina and Lyn their B and the C with Hector if you do that support. 24 turns in two chapters and maybe a tiny bit of Noble Lady, while Lyn is one of the most inflexible units (low durability + 1-range)? 38 turns during the same time, while Hector is always on the way to seize? Supports don't grow that fast, but even if they did, then Fiora's supports would be finished earlier too, so lol. An extra level isn't going to make a difference - the comparison remains awfully close. Quote: So Florina is actually better than what you put down, and the gap is pretty big at first. The gap at first is larger, which means the rest of the stuff you put down is a bit inaccurate. I see more than one spot of difference between them. B Lyn just gives her another +1 Atk, and being 12/0 instead of 11/0 obviously gives a very marginal boost. Quote: Marcus is one-rounding. Erk often does. Hector, Lyn, Oswin, and Sain can OHKO with slayer/prf weapons. Kent can one-round sometimes. Guy can sometimes. Canas's offense when he first joins is bottom tier. He can't double and he doesn't even do more with his one hit than anyone else would with their turn. And he can actually miss, lol. Slayer weapons are hardly available, just one lolHorseslayer. Marcus, Erk, Wolf Beil, Mani Katti, sure. Kent only one rounds shit like Shamans, maybe Steel Bow Archers or something. Guy generally misses out on the KO due to low Str + swords, perhaps with B Matthew and a Steel Sword or something, but Matthew isn't in range so often anymore. Canas has 84 hit before enemy evade, which is generally lol. Even a 15 evade enemy still gives him 81% real. Someone like Hector isn't doing much better, if any at all. Of course, pretty much everyone you named is God tier, or is in their prime of their offense (Lyn, Marcus, Oswin). Quote: I'd put Erk a bit higher in level, tbqh. He has a large portion of Lyn's story and then he joins pretty early in HHM. I'd put him at 14/0 at the point Canas joins. Erk's generally not taking attacks, and even when he is, he's much better off than Canas with hopefully C Serra by now and better Evd by a lot. 2 levels extra is like one point of HP, maybe one of Def. Canas takes as much counters as Erk, so moot. C Serra? 79 turns in 5 chapters? Those maps Erk is in aren't even 16 turns long, and yet that's what's needed for it to be at C right now. Quote: Why does Serra's defensive parameters really matter, btw? You also left out her Evd, lol. Matter, not really. Just that they're somewhat similiar to Canas. Of course, she still wins, but not by so much as to call Serra's durability good and Canas' Bottom Tier. Quote: He survives a single enemy. Enemies attack in groups and love picking on crappy units like Canas. He'll die. Anyone can rape those low level, shitty enemies. He generally survives two enemies. Enough to be exposed to a few and counter them (something, say, Rebecca cannot do). And no, not anyone is raping "low level enemies" yet. Shamans can be one rounded by a lot, sure, but they do a pretty load of damage to almost everyone but Erk and Lucius, so Canas luring them helps. Same for Mages, except they are harder to one round. Nomads generally are too fast to be one rounded unless you're going to go all Marcus or Prf on them. Most people cannot counter Archers without getting bleh combat parameters.etc Quote: Hector won't need the Wolf Beil to one-round anymore by the time it breaks, and he does get another one. Canas gets 2 Lunas and Nosferatus, IIRC, and both are very heavy and only situationally good. Canas doesn't need Luna often, but when he does, he becomes hax - Cog of Destiny is his paradise. He's a Valkyrie's worst nightmare. He's the only 1-2 range unit with high Res that doesn't do crap damage to them (Javelin Peggies are next in line, but those don't double). Hector only gets another Wolf Beil after The Berserker, while Canas has a copy of each of his weapons from the Dread Isle, and then a Luna from the desert, and another Nosferatu somewhere. They are heavy, yeah, but when he needs them, he often isn't doubling to begin with, or it doesn't matter that it changes. Since he's 1~2 range, his lowered evasion doesn't matter on player phase, and Luna is mostly slaying bosses who cannot really take advantage, while Nosferatu brings up durability by a huge amount anyway. Quote: If Canas had good durability, then he could fight on enemy phase well, but he really can't. He doesn't fight _well_ on enemy phase, but he can do it sometimes, and usually 2HKOs. And then later on he does get reasonable durability and can take advantage of it, while Rebecca cannot take advantage of her Avo. No matter how good her durability gets, her getting attacked is undesirable. Quote: Rebecca kills anything she attacks without much problems later on. She has the same period of suck early on that Canas does, except hers starts earlier and she has supports and less suck by the time Canas joins. Her suck period is also the same as Marcus's God period, so there's a God around to make sure she's fine. She's barely beating Canas, if at all, when Canas joins. For there being a God around, I see you used that as a point against Canas (lol Marcus can one round) and now it's a point in Rebecca's favor that he's owning so much? Nice. Quote: Man, I'm never going to understand why every other top debater puts units 1-2 levels lower than what I get them to in the game, and I'm a Marcus/Oswin lover. >_>; Maybe you babied her. 9 levels in 7 chapters is almost exactly 1.3 levels per chapter, which is what is usually given to everyone. And Rebecca cannot fight on enemy phase, and isn't good at hurting or killing to begin with, so if anything I was being nice to her. Quote: Uh...no, they will not promote at the same time. Amazing counter. Anyway, Canas probably prefers promoting as soon as an item becomes available for him due to staves. Quote: Canas dies if he fights on the enemy phase. Only time he gets one-rounded is his joining chapter, which Rebecca dies in as well. Quote: Priscilla is amazing and almost always in play, so that's usually three promotional items already taken up for the magic users. And you get an Earth Seal in addition to that, and the other Guiding Ringers make each other less likely to be in play to begin with (since you don't want promotion troubles), and the worth of Priscilla decreases by a lot if you already have Serra in play in addition to more people who get staves quickly. That amazingness mostly comes from those staves, since she's actually quite underleveled with no really fast gains, plus horrid durability.


Final Tier List? · Fire Emblem 6-8