Viewing Single Post From: Guantanamo Bay to be shut down

Viewing Single Post From: Guantanamo Bay to be shut down
Askio	Jan 24 2009, 10:52 AM
Crit McGee on Speed Posts: 2,878 Group: Veteran Member #436 Joined: October 1, 2005	Ronald Reagan Jan 24 2009, 02:03 AM I got rid of the double post, don't worry about it. Quote: Wow really? That's your only argument against this? Some sort of morality issue? These guys don't deserve trials because they're terrorists. What kind of logic is that? By that logic, every person tried of a crime is guilty. Here's something that's important to note - "Terrorists" are enemies of the United States. They are not evil, or lesser beings or anything like that. They're just significantly different and to say they don't deserve to be treated like humans just because they don't think we deserve to be treated like humans doesn't make sense. Is it wrong of them? Yes. That doesn't make it right for us though. Do you really see no difference between a soldier and a terrorist? Terrorist are significantly different. Significantly different, in the fact that they almost exclusively target civilians. They are not an army. They don't represent a country. They are a group of murderers, who because they cannot challenge us militarily, they turn against the people the military is supposed to protect. If they are acknowledged as soldiers (lets just ignore the fact that they aren't soldiers), then they would have to be treated as such. According to the Geneva Convention, there are two types of Combatants. Privileged Combatants, who follow the law of war, and thus qualify as a POW, and unlawful combatants, who due to their nature, don't qualify as a POW. Terrorist sure as hell don't follow the law of war, and therefore are clearly unlawful combatants. Due to that, there it is absurd to give them the rights of a POW. On one point, I agree they don't deserve a military trial, as it would acknowledge that are soldiers. However, that doesn't stop a general trial. by our own constitution as well as the basic rights of any nation, a crime committed in or against us is punishable by us. We could just as easily put them on a civil trial, simply for those who have been confirmed as committing crimes of terrorism. The point of the matter being they don't have to be considered POWs. Those we know for certain are criminals can be tried as criminals can and should be tried, not locked up in some prison out of our borders where 98% of the country doesn't know what the hell is going on. It would make us look better too. Quote: That's so not the point, and is completely irrelevant. The point is that we're doing wrong by loopholing around our own constitution just so we can do things that are clearly wrong. Quote: Its not loopholing around the Constitution, since the Constitution doesn't protect non-citizens. Are you serious? Its true it doesn't protect non-citizens, however the constitution, as well as things like Geneva Convention, which the US used its own constitutional values to help create, prevent things like this from happening. Or at least it's supposed to. Our constitution prohibits this strictly, and is supposed to, in this day and age, protect human rights. combine that with the fact that many of the so called terrorists at GTMO haven't even been successfully proven as such, which is why they are kept over there, means that between UN laws, as well as the Declaration of Human rights, they are entitled to certain rights, and the US is obligated to give that to them. So in truth, the US is loopholing its constitution, the UN, the Geneva Convention, and the Human Rights Declaration. Yeah, 4 is so much better than 1. Quote: I disagree. Ya I'm sure Terrorist will talk if we just sit down and ask nicely. [/quote]. I believe you are missing the point. Terrorists would do horrible things to certain Americans. Yes they would. I can't argue this and any one with any sort of intelligence can't either. They terrorize us for a reason. But the fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter. If, by the way your looking at things, that its fine, then its fine for them to do it, and its fine for anyone to do it, the cycle will never end. Just because they do it we should do it too? Thats silly. And why the hell are we using the same tactics as terrorists? Torture has never been consistently effective, its inhumane in most forms, and the US, the only true remaining superpower, is going out of it's way to resort to the same practices as these people? That means we could technically be called 'terrorists' if thats a criteria for the title. Plus, the whole "they do it so we should be able too' is a bit of a naive and childish argument in my opinion, and I would laugh, cry, and throw the nearest item at my television if I saw or heard our leaders using that pathetic reason as an excuse. (no offense to you, but it is a 5 year old and below concept) Edited by Askio, Jan 24 2009, 11:09 AM.
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Guantanamo Bay to be shut down · Debate Forum