Viewing Single Post From: Guantanamo Bay to be shut down

Viewing Single Post From: Guantanamo Bay to be shut down
Conan O'Brien	Jan 25 2009, 01:28 PM
SKILLNADEN ÄR DRINKABILITY Posts: 2,781 Group: Veteran Member #16 Joined: June 8, 2005	First of all, let me say that I can't see our closing of Gitmo increasing our standing in the Middle East. These are people who believe the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is true and that the Holocaust never happened, for God's sake, they're not going to care. If they're still going on about the Crusades a millennium after the fact, I don't see them letting Gitmo go. In fact, releasing terrorists who will return to wreck havoc on their country, I can see them being distinctly NOT happy at the US. Quote: You're against torture and you're slamming Obama for being against torture 99% of the time, allowing for small concessions, yet you too would agree that torture is necessary in some cases. You can't slam Obama for doing the same things you believe, making the small concession when necessary. I'm not slamming his viewpoint, since it's pretty much the same, I'm slamming him for taking the holier than thou moralist approach during the election but singing a different tune the minute he has it in the bag. Quote: Grave, lasting, and certain. Understandably thousands and tens of thousands warrant torture, but getting names and whatnot wouldn't make any sense because they aren't going to really help us. After all, we know who Osama Bin Laden is but we couldn't find him even if we tortured every prisoner at Guantanamo. Obviously it takes proper restraint to ensure that torture doesn't go too far, but in some cases it IS justified. Most terrorists in the United States and Western Countries are employed, educated people who wear Western clothes and speak the native language. Many of the London bombers were born and raised in England. If we have just their name, we'll be saving lives. Even in Middle Eastern countries, it's the higher ups who are in hiding. Many committed operatives just live normal lives, until one day someone knocks on their door with a explosive laden vest and a location circled on a map. But when you get down to it, there's simply too much uncertainty about torture. How are you supposed to know, a)that this person is in fact a member of a terror group, b) that they actually know something, c) that you already don't know what they know(since we usually take down entire cells at a time) d)whether what they know will save lives and e) How many lives that'll save. And most important, f) that they'll even talk to begin with? Everyone likes to imagine that you have a man in an interrogation room, and you know for certain that he has knowledge of an attack, know for certain if you torture him he'll talk, know for certain that however many people will die. That's the 1% of cases I like to think actually happen and that I support. But that just doesn't happen. And even if it does, he's liable to give you the wrong information. Quote: This is where I present to you the case of "love your neighbor". Jesus told us to love our neighbor just as we love ourselves. If that means using cruel and unusual punishment to save 10,000 of our neighbors, we must love our neighbors by causing pain to another neighbor. Jesus wasn't a utilitarian. If he was, Judas would be a saint. Jesus taught black and white morality. The Jews and Romans killed one of their neighbors, and ultimately saved them all. But still we must realize that the saving grace came through the worst crime in history. Would Jesus be pleased that you saved thousands of people? I imagine. But he'd find the method abhorrent.
	~~Wind Sword Quote: Please keep Christian bashing to a minimum. This is mainly the American South (and mainly Evangelical death cults), which is similar to Afghanistan under the Taliban. Touching. Scientology Quote: Clones are create and people can't bore a clone. Scientifically they are called born and not created. The only way to pre-determine their genes is if they are already out in the world usually in a pod that would resemble the sac in a mothers womb. Take Star Wars for example. Smartest post ever made.

Guantanamo Bay to be shut down · Debate Forum