Viewing Single Post From: Guantanamo Bay to be shut down

Viewing Single Post From: Guantanamo Bay to be shut down
+Reaver	Jan 25 2009, 03:31 PM
Troll Posts: 8,614 Group: Advisor Member #47 Joined: June 9, 2005	Dwight D Eisenhower I'm not slamming his viewpoint, since it's pretty much the same, I'm slamming him for taking the holier than thou moralist approach during the election but singing a different tune the minute he has it in the bag. It seems like you believe the exact same thing as Obama, willing to say "America doesn't torture" then saying you approve in the 1% of the time it's necessary. I don't see why you're slamming him for that; if you're only referring to how he used an absolute, we both know better than to believe absolutes. Dwight D Eisenhower Most terrorists in the United States and Western Countries are employed, educated people who wear Western clothes and speak the native language. Many of the London bombers were born and raised in England. If we have just their name, we'll be saving lives. Even in Middle Eastern countries, it's the higher ups who are in hiding. Many committed operatives just live normal lives, until one day someone knocks on their door with a explosive laden vest and a location circled on a map. Because this happens incredibly frequently here, in the United States, where the lives of OUR civilians are at stake. Sure, it happens for high-profile attacks, but I would imagine most average terrorists don't have access to those plans until they're given the explicit instructions. Plus I would further assume that Al-Qaeda, knowing that their organization invovles secrecy, keeps the identities of other terrorists secret from each other to avoid losing their network. It's impossible to find them, even with torture, if they're so removed from the operation on the day to day basis. Dwight D Eisenhower But when you get down to it, there's simply too much uncertainty about torture. How are you supposed to know, a)that this person is in fact a member of a terror group, b) that they actually know something, c) that you already don't know what they know(since we usually take down entire cells at a time) d)whether what they know will save lives and e) How many lives that'll save. And most important, f) that they'll even talk to begin with? And I agree. Torture should be used under the conditions of a grave, lasting, and certain threat. I've never tried to argue it's a necessity 100% of the time. Dwight D Eisenhower And even if it does, he's liable to give you the wrong information. This is true, but actively trying to stop a threat beats passively being attacked. Dwight D Eisenhower Jesus wasn't a utilitarian. If he was, Judas would be a saint. Jesus taught black and white morality. The Jews and Romans killed one of their neighbors, and ultimately saved them all. But still we must realize that the saving grace came through the worst crime in history. Would Jesus be pleased that you saved thousands of people? I imagine. But he'd find the method abhorrent. But there's more to it than utilitarianism. Christians have the obligation to love their neighbor. We praise the Good Samaritan for helping a hated rival when he was down, but what if the Good Samaritan arived while the traveler was being attacked? Would we still praise him had he waited back until after the attack? Would we ask why he didn't stand up for his fellow man? It's the exact same situation as the Holocaust: without the activity - the bloodshed - necessary to stop the Nazis we allowed the Jews, our neighbors, to suffer at the hands of Hitler in concentration camps. Jesus wasn't utilitarian, that I grant you, but he would certainly support active response to injustice.
	Neon,June 8 2005 07:34 PM @Reaver: Me grammer is better than ur post count newbie. HJ, December 30 2008 06:20 PM You gave Inui his first (and last?) sexual experience, didn't you? That's historic. Favorite Staffer Summer 2008 -- Send me a Personal Message

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