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| Yzarc Drowsnam vs Citan Uzuki | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 31 2006, 06:28 PM (141 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Aug 31 2006, 06:28 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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The rules should be known by now. Three posts each. Yzarc shall begin. |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Yzarc | Sep 2 2006, 11:35 AM Post #2 |
Coxian
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Alright, first off: To begin this deal traditionally...Let's start off with some stats, shall we? Boyd (Starting/Max Level) HP: 30/59.4 Str: 7/29.3 Mag: 0/2.8 Skl: 4/24.3 Spd: 6/23.4 Def: 5/16.2 Res: 0/11.2 Lck: 4/16.9 Total: 56/183.5 Lethe (Starting/Max Level) HP: 34/56.1 Str: 12/20.5 Mag: 4/4.8 Skl: 10/21.0 Spd: 12/23.9 Def: 9/15.8 Res: 7/11.3 Lck: 15/23.5 Total: 88.15/176.9 Now, here's the deal with Lethe. Interesting character. She's a Laguz, meaning she starts out rediculously powerful and ends up leveling out with the rest of your characters towards the end...Just like a Pre-Promote. The difference, of course, being that you can really only use her half the time. Granted, any "skilled tactitian" would be able to specify perfectly when and where she will be needed by the time she turns to cat form, but any "skilled tactitian" can do well given pretty much any situation. The question is this...Are her superior stats worth waiting half the time for? The exceptions, of course, are the Laguz Stones, Demi Bands and Laguz Band. Forget the Laguz Band...If you use it on Lethe then...Well, yeah. Don't need to go into that. But, let's assume that the Demi Bands are worth the minor stat loss (which I believe they are.) Why would you use it on Lethe? There are better Laguz to use it on, including Ranulf, who is even the same exact class as Lethe...Just better. Boyd, on the other hand, is nearly completely irreplaceable. He plays a job pretty early on that no one, including Titania, can play. By the time he hits level 10, unpromoted, he has as much Strength (just about) as Titania, level 1, promoted. His strength in the end is beat out only by Largo (by .1), Tibarn and Giffca, the latter two of which hardly count just by the nature of their purpose. They ARE gods in every sense. Now, Boyd and Largo are pretty on par with each other statistically. Largo sacrifices some defense and res for a tad more HP and Speed. They're both about equally as useful lategame, though. But what makes Boyd infinitely more useful is his power up until you GET Largo, at which point you can make whatever decision you decide to make. Boyd has a magnificent combo of Strength and Speed that allows him to consistantly kill enemies in single turns. Even pretty early on, Boyd sometimes ends up doing more overall damage than Titania, simply because she cannot carry some of the heavier weapons. Once you get to the point where your characters start getting promoted, Boyd IS the power hitter of your team. Meanwhile, Lethe is completely overshadowed by beasts (haha, get it?) like Ranulf and Janaff. |
  
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| Citan Uzuki | Sep 4 2006, 12:16 AM Post #3 |
Vinegar
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OMFG. Halfway through my post I my computer froze!!!! This sucks.
So it's clear that Lethe CRUSHES Boyd in starting stats. Coming 2 levels higher, she beats Boyd in every stat by a margin greater than 2. Lethe starts out with more HP, meaning that she can take more hits. 4 more HP can mean the difference between the life and death of a character. Boyd averages out more HP in the end, but Lethe isn't far behind, and she makes up for it with higher Avoid%. Lethe starts with a whopping 5 more Strength than Boyd. Their Starting weapons have the same might, But Lethe will have more AS, meaning she'll double attack more. Boyd beats her in the end however . I won't count magic seeing as how Boyd's is complete shit and Lethe can't use magic. Lethe starts out with a lot more skill than Boyd. She'll hit more often, and has a higher chance of scoring a critical. Boyd however is stuck with bad skill, the overall bad hit rate of axes, AND the fact that almost all the enemies in the earlier chapters are axe users and myrmidons . Lethe starts off with double the amount of speed Boyd has. Her weapon has basically NO weight, ensuring that she never loses AS. Lethe will be double-attacking more often, dealing out more damage than Boyd. And she still averages more speed than Boyd. Lethe starts off with more defense and resistance than Boyd. And she grows better in these areas too. Even though Boyd averages more Defense in the end, his growth in these areas is dreadful, leaving him prone to major RNG screwage. Lethe downright owns Boyd in luck when she joins, and still averages more than him. Her high luck will be useful, seeing as it adds to her Hit rate, Avoid rate, and Crit Avoid rate.
Better laguz? Mordecai only beats her in HP and STR, while Lethe beats him in all other stats. While Mordecai's HP is godly, his other stats suffer. Lethe's strength isn't that much lower than his either. By the time you get to Maurims level, Lethe should be around his level. By the time Lethe is level 9 also, she will be better than him in every stat other than HP and Strength. But Lethe's HP and Strength aren't much lower than Maurims. That leaves Ranulf. Ranulf beats her in HP, STR,SKL,and DEF. Lethe wins in SPD,RES, and LUCK. So why choose Lethe? 1) She comes 13 chapters earlier than Ranulf, making her more usefull. She should be way past level 9 by the time you are on chapter 23, making her stats better than Ranulf's at the time. 2) Lethe has the advantage in growths, while Ranulf has the advantage in Base stats. With a little blessing, Lethe can be nearly on-par with Ranulf. 3) She comes with a Beorc Guard while Ranulf comes with an elixer. Now assuming you've been using Rhys, or promoted one of your mages, you shouldn't need to use that elixer. Unless of course someone throws a character into mobs of enemies and keeps their healer far away. When multiple people are damaged, the damage shouldn't be serious enough that a vulnerary or two can't fix. The Beorc Guard however is very useful in stages with many Laguz such as the bridge stage where you fight Petrine. Since in this game, you have 4 slots in your inventory for weapons and 4 for items, putting this item on an important or fragile character shouldn't be a problem. 4) Supports. They both support with the same people, but Lethe has one other support option, Jill, a dragon rider with great offensive capabilities.
Actually it's the other way around. In the beginning, Titania plays the important job that no one, including Boyd, can play. Once Boyd reaches level 10, he'll still have one of the lowest speed in the group. Ike, Oscar, and Titania will be dealing out more damage than him, simply because they can double attack.
Once you start getting to the later chapters, Boyd's horrible defensive capabilities start to show. It's true Largo's is worse, but they're both so bad that the fact that Largo has slightly better HP plus a little better STR and SPD makes him a more powerful version of Boyd. Also Largo starts off with near-decent DEF. Boyd has the potential to have more, but his growth is extremely shaky, almost screaming to get screwed.
Titania with the Iron axe or Steel Axe should be enough to kill most enemis early on. Boyd can do more damage in one hit, but Titania can double almost everything with her starting speed. Now that that's over with let's look at something else, their growths. Lethe HP:130% STR:50% MAG:5% SKL:65% SPD:70% DEF:40% RES:25% LCK:50% Total Growth:435 Boyd HP:75% STR:60% MAG:5% SKL:50% SPD:45 DEF:25% RES:25% LCK:35% Total Growth:320 HP:Lethe STR:Boyd MAG:Tie SKL:Lethe SPD:Lethe DEF:Lethe RES:Tie LCK:Lethe That's 5:1 Lethe. Lethe destroys Boyd in total growths. This is balanced by the extra 20 levels Boyd gets. On an unrelated note, Lethe is sexier, hotter, smarter, and stronger than Boyd. Her and Mordecai wiped out entire mobs of Daein Troops in a matter of seconds. Mordecai obviously couldn't keep up with Lethe's speed, meaning that Lethe was able to kill more. Also, without her, Ike would've died because him and his group were surrounded by Daein troops. So Lethe plays an important role to the story. |
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| Yzarc | Sep 4 2006, 01:58 AM Post #4 |
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Coxian
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2 levels higher? Okay, first of all... Boyd comes in as a level 2 Fighter. Lethe comes in as a level 3 Cat. How you get 2 levels out of 3-2 is beyond me. Second of all...It's AT LEAST 11 levels higher, considering that Laguz count as Tier 2. They can't promote and their stats start out superior to everyone else's. That being said...OF COURSE she beats Boyd in stats when you first get her. She's a lot higher leveled than him. But there's another thing we must take into account...You get her a long time after you get Boyd. By the time you get her, Boyd will easily be one of your higher leveled characters (considering you do use him as a badass offensive man). By the time you get Lethe, Boyd will likely have a few stats that he excels in over her, EVEN CONSIDERING how much higher level she is.
3 HP generally can mean the difference between life and death. So can 1, for that matter. Oh, but let's not forget. That's level 3 Cat's HP compared to Level 2 Fighter's HP. Boyd does not stay level 2 Fighter until you get Lethe. He'll be much higher leveled by that time and with an HP growth of 75%, he'll have surpassed her HP, easily.
If Boyd is a level 10 Fighter, he'll have BARELY (.2) less strength than Lethe. Successive levels are just furthering the gap more and more. 5 more strength? Maybe when you FIRST have Boyd, but remember that at that time, you don't HAVE Lethe yet. And Boyd more than "beats" her in the end. He dominates her. With his high speed (which he DOES have) and mad strength, he will consistantly kill enemies in one turn. His strength advantage to Lethe endgame far outweighs her strength advantage to him when he's a level 2 fighter.
Good deal. OMG NOEZ! LETHE WINZ IN TEH MAGIC!!
She does start out with a lot more skill than Boyd. I'll give you that. Even by the time you DO get her, she'll likely still have more than him. But to go so far as to say Boyd's skill is bad? 24.3? Granted, it's no myrmidon, but he'll be able to land hits. Oh and as far as the enemies being axe users and myrmidons...Yeah...You're right. In the first few chapters. But after that, things level out and you start facing knights (mounted and armored). Give Boyd a Steel Axe and he'll be double attacking those knights in Chapter 10, killing them in 1-2 turns, easily. Oh, and they won't dodge. No matter what, those knights won't dodge. Also, Boyd does end up with more skill than Lethe.
Yes, yes, she starts with more speed than Boyd. So does Titania. Why use Lethe when Titania makes a perfectly good Jeigan...A more effiecient one at that. Her weapon has perfect weight, granted, but she's locked to it the whole time. While it is good, there are simply things that you can do with axes and bows that you can't do with a claw. I'll talk on that later. Averages more speed than Boyd? Yes. Barely. By less than 1. Boyd's is still well more than enough to double attack enemies and kill them with his superior strength.
Boyd's rediculous HP at the start more than makes up for his lack of defense and resistance...Well, he does have 5 defense. But regardless, he can still absorb plenty of hits early on. And yes, his growths aren't very good. But, while you can only look at it as a bad thing that his stats aren't set, there are good sides to it, especially since they're not anywhere near the caps. Boyd has plenty of room to get RNG boosted. He's just as likely to do that as to get RNG raped...And thus, we have a stat average.
Yes, Lethe has more luck than Boyd. She'll have higher evasion than Boyd. By a relatively significant amount. She'll have a bit more accuracy than him, but she already does due to her Claw being accurate. And Crit avoid...That extra 7% chance over Boyd that she won't take a critical. This is a significant advantage that Lethe has over Boyd, statistically. But Boyd can generally handle a crit from snipers and swordmasters, who are likely the few units TO land a crit on him.
Right. Mordecai sucks as well.
Muarim isn't necessarily top tier Laguz either. Ranulf's the one we should be concerned about...
Heh.
Endgame, Ranulf has better stats than Lethe. That, and Lethe ISN'T necessary early game. She's just another Jeigan that you can only use half the time and with weaker stats. Titania is better. If you're gonna be blowing valuable exp on promoted units, you shouldn't be doing it to more than one.
Or raped even further. This sorta sounds like earlier when you said that Boyd was worse than Lethe in defense because he's relying more on luck than on solidity. Which is better? Pick one and stick with it.
I agree that the Beorc Guard is good. But...Did you know that you can take it off of Lethe and put it on someone else? Like...Ranulf? When Lethe has that item on, it's not saying that Lethe is more useful...You could just as easily dump her in the "never use this character" category of your party and take the item and still use it.
What? Lethe: Ike, Jill, Murarim, Ranulf Ranulf: Ike, Mordecai, Lethe Mordecai =/= Murarim. Granted, Lethe has better supports than Ranulf. With the exception of Ike, every single one of Ranulf's supporters is total crap (like that subtle slap? I should get bonus points for realz) Wait a minute...Huh? What? It's almost as if you didn't even MENTION Reyson or Janaaf, two of the best Laguz in the game. Then later on you get either Ena or Nasir. Now, even if you could get three Demi Bands, Lethe would be pretty far down on my list.
At level ten, Boyd and Oscar's speed difference is roughly one. Granted, that may make a difference in some situations. But, for the most part, neither will really be double attacking early on. Ike, the lord, WILL be double attacking and, likely, doing more overall damage than Boyd. But you also have to remeber to let Ike fight in rations. Can't let him fight too much early on, otherwise he's just an empty space in your party. But you do have to let him fight SOME early on, in order to stay on par with enemies. It's difficult but, basically, you can't really say that Ike can ever replace anyone simply because he can't go all out on a massive army of enemies like other characters can, for the only fact that you want to spread the use of his godlyness for as long as you can. And Titania, obviously, is a Jeigan. But her job IS very different from Boyd's. While Titania will likely lead the front and use hit/run on enemies that might prove to be a threat to your less than full HP Rhys. Take 'em out early. But you can't let Titania get massive amounts of kills. Experience is too valuable in this game to just throw it towards a Jeigan in increments of two, where Boyd and Oscar could be getting 20 from that kill. In chapter ten, you can't put Titania up against all those knights on the right side of the fort. Well, you CAN, but Ike can take them all out just as easily, what with his speed that will allow him to double attack, strength that will allow him to carry an Iron Axe without losing speed and the strength to actually DEAL badass damage to those knights, Boyd makes just as good of a killer of those knights as Titania. OR you could give him the hammer and toss away some of his dodge for one hit kills on the knights.
Largo's slghtly better HP is almost negligable, as is his Strength. Boyd, though, has a significant Defense and Resistance advantage over Largo, WAAAY outweighing that .6 of an HP. Largo's speed is an advantage that he has over Boyd. He is, overall, better at simply dealing damage. He's what many of us would call a last resort if Boyd gets RNG screwed. They are relatively interchangeable, about as good as each other with minor strengths and weaknesses. The difference being, though, that Boyd plays a major role throughout the game until you get Largo at a rediculously late point in the game. Largo would be immensely more useful if he was actually useABLE in many of the earlier chapters. Unfortunately, he's not. And back to the "growths are more likely to get you raped than pleasured." idealogy, eh? Make up your mind.
But there are situations where Boyd CAN double attack. His speed isn't bad. In those situations, not as rare as you may think, Boyd is likely to do at least slightly more damage than Titania. Granted, Titania will do more most of the time, but that was just a point to make. Titania will likely NOT be used to take on hordes of powerful enemies. This is because that takes away about four levelups from people that need them. Boyd, though, IS likely to take on many enemies at once, and at no cost to your exp.
Precisely. I didn't even have to mention why that entire point was completely void. Lethe has more growths because her starting stats are NOT on par with those of a normal level 3 tier 2. But the added growths don't even allow her to match up to Boyd. Boyd gets 35 levelups with 320 growths. Lethe gets 16 with 435. See? She has less than half as much levels to gain as Boyd does, but doesn't even have double his growths.
Sexier? Hotter? Aside from the fact that they're the same thing, more or less, I could easily beg to differ. I would easily sacrifice my heterosexuality and say that I'd rather do a guy than a half woman-half cat. Smarter...Is that a good quality? Arguable. Also, is intelligence relative? Also arguable. Stronger than Boyd? Pah! Boyd's strength, as you have already seen, far outweighs hers. Who CAN'T wipe out mobs of Daein troops in a matter of seconds? They're enemy NPCs, they're made specifically to be wiped out. Also, it's only because people like Boyd and Oscar were weakening the Daein troops' morale by owning so hard.
Oh, and the main character's best friend DOESN'T? Granted, Boyd's character quickly takes a backseat into normal character mode, with Elincia, Mist, Soren and Titania taking over as the "main" nonmain characters. Lethe's part in the story is just that...The part you just mentioned. She and Mordecai play the roles of, essentilaly, Gallia. They are Gallia, coming to Crimea's rescue. But then Ranulf becomes the main Beast Laguz and HE becomes the new representative of Gallia for Ike's party. |
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11:35 AM Nov 28
