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| JediSSJ vs Tiltyu | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 31 2006, 06:29 PM (198 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Aug 31 2006, 06:29 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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The rules should be known by now. Three posts each. Jedi shall post first. |
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| Michael | Sep 1 2006, 11:27 AM Post #2 |
JediSSJ
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Alright. Well, here we have the battle of Oscar vs Ilyana. Well . . . honestly these characters are not even a close match. I might as well get the projected 20/20 stats out there first: Oscar HP: 48.8 (49) Str: 23.7 (24) Mag: 10.2 (10) Skl: 24.8 (25) Spd: 24.7 (25) Def: 22.5 (23) Res: 13.8 (14) Lck: 15.8 (16) Ilyana HP: 38.9 (39) Str: 11.2 (11) Mag: 25.4 (25) Skl: 26.2 (26) Spd: 20.9 (21) Def: 9.9 (10) Res: 27.1 (27) Lck: 20.9 (21) In terms of total stats . . . Oscar: 184.3 Ilyana: 180.5 Now, keep in mind that this does not factor in MOV. Oscar has a Mov of 9, along with the mounted ability to move after taking action. Ilyana only has a Mov of 6. BIG ADVANTAGE HERE!!! Let's break down the stats. HP: Oscar wins by 10 here. A significant advantage. Str: Again, Oscar wins massively. Of course, that's misleading, as Ilyana uses her Mag stat to attack, so instead let's combine the two: Attack: Now, on the surface, it might appear that Ilyana has a slight advantage here, as her Mag is 1-2 higher than Oscar's Str. However, you must factor in weapon weight, as Str is used to determine how heavy of weapons a unit can use without losing Spd. Oscar can use most lances without any penalty to Spd (including the Brave Lance), but Ilyana has trouble using the heavier tomes without losing Spd. So, Oscar's ability to use heavier weapons lets him easily overcome Ilyana's 1-2 point attack lead. So, in fact, Oscar comes out on top here. Skl: Ilyana wins here by about one point. Of course, both have high Skl and use fairly accurate weapons, so niether is likely to miss. Spd: Oscar wins here by a good 4 points. That's actually pretty sad. Fire Emblem usually favors girls with higher Spd and guys with higher Str. Not to mention that Sages a a fairly speed oriented class. The fact that a female Sage has considerably less Spd than a male Paladin is just sad. Soren, Tormod, and Callil all beat Ilyana's Spd significantly, and will double attack where she cannot. She's lucky that Bastion had crap for stats-so she's not quite the slowest Sage. I should mention that FE6 is the latest game to actually have an Anima-user (other than Bastion) who is actually slower than Ilyana. Poor girl. Def/Res: Comparing a physical unit to a magic one it is only natural that Oscar will have better Def and Ilyana will have better Res. The real question is: How well do they hold up in each area? Oscar has a very nice Def stat of 22.5. Only the Generals, Wyvern Lords, Super Laguz, Kieran, and Makalov have better Def. Oscar's Def is about even with Lowen, the "Horse-Tank" from FE7. Inotherwords, he has really good Def. As for Res, Oscar has 13.8. The only physical units who have that high are: Ike, Titania, Astrid, Devdan, Tauroneo, and the Pegasus riders. That's pretty freaking good (especially considering that Devdar and Tauroneo are crap and won't likely be used, and how you will likely only use one Peggy at most). So, overall, Oscar's defensive abilities are quite impressive. Ilyana has a nice Res stat of 27.1. That's nice, though Ryhs and Soren have even better. Ilyana's problem is her Def of 9.9. Ouch. That's pretty low. Combined with Ilyana's low Spd (ie Evasion), it is bad news. Out of all the magic users, only Soren has less . . . and that only be 0.2 (both round to 10). Soren, however, has better Evasion and double-attack ability to compensate. So, when you do a thurough comparison of defensive stats and compare them to other unit, you find Ilyana is lacking, while Oscar is quite well-off. Lck: Ah, the one stat Ilyana really wins at. Too bad it's not enough to compensate for her Spd in evasion. This really doesn't matter much, as A.) Oscar is not lacking in Lck, and Ilyana's Lck does not make up for any of her shortcomings. So, basically, Oscar is the statistically supereor unit. He is also one of the first units to join Ike, and the first Knight (Titania is the first Paladin, though). Ilyana doesn't join until chapter 8, when you already have Soren who is the better Mage/Sage. So yeah . . .Oscar wins. Plus, have you seen his artwork? He squints! He has a Skl rating of 25 without even opening his eyes! That's impressive. |
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| +Cubic | Sep 2 2006, 01:57 AM Post #3 |
ZA WARUDO
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Let's not forget Elaice has the ability to 1~2 attack. This technically raises her move up one, allowing her to attack quicker. Not to mention, even with that Mov, she wont be in nearly as much danger thanks to the Shadow Skill.
Elaices Strength can let her handle VERY heavy tomes. It's definitely not as bad as you say. The only real tome she is wieghed down by is RexThunder, which isn't even in the game.
It isn't quite that odd for her to be beat by a (speedy) male paladin. The fact that she doesn't have amazing linear stat patterns such as Lute or Nino are hardly relavent. Not to mention she has the best Magic type in the game, with a very high crit and might, allowing her to 1HKO very often. Soren hardly has a speed advantage over her. Hand him a Wind...that's the best weapon he'll get for the majority of the game. He has such paltry strength, it balances out that Ilyana isn't steller in that stat. Tormod is the speedy mage, so that's obviously going to win there. And Callil...doesnt have much more.
Elaice is the perfect Sage killer. Sending off Oscar to face a swarm of them would be utter suicide in hard mode. She may be lacking in DEF by quite alot, but magical attacks will hardly dent her at all. Not to mention, her Shadow skill aids her ALOT, making her the perfect front-liner if you tag her up with someone a bit more defensive. This is somethingover soren she has.
Yes, it does. It adds to her (already) good evasion, and gives her an opening to survive criticals much better than Soren, who you keep saying is the better mage. Although, Elaice still has it slightly better than Oscar.
Being statistically superior doesnt help when you have a horrible skill set, compared to an already great skill that Elaice has. |
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| Michael | Sep 2 2006, 12:28 PM Post #4 |
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JediSSJ
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Alright, here we go.
While magic's attack range is an advantage, it still does not make up for Oscar's +3 MOV and the fact that he can finish moving after taking action. Ilyana is stuck where she is after taking any action. And you bring up the Shade skill . . . This skill may be usefull for helping Ilyana survive early on in the game (Oscar, though, doesn't need a skill to survive). However, it prevents her from gaining her Mastery Skill. Also, it is not reliable. The enemies in the game don't always do what you expect. It reduces the chance an enemy will attack her as opposed to someone else, but it does NOT prevent it. If you rely on Shade to keep Ilyana safe, your setting her up to get raped by some melee character you weren't expecting to attack her. It's a risk to rely on.
RexBolt. Of course, that's assuming she's at 20/20, which she certainly won't be for most of the game. Throughout the game, various tomes can weigh her down until she levels up a ways. She starts off with 1 STr, meaning she will be weighed down. Also, when you consider her low Str growth it is easier for her to get shafted by the RNG and wind up with low Str, and therefore low CON.
Like Lute or Nino? You mean like any of the other Sages in Path of Radiance? Other than Bastian, all the other Sages are at least as good as Ilyana. Calill is roughly even, only losing to Ilyana in Skl, Res, and Lck (both of which Calill has plenty of and all but Res are very close). Soren beats her in everything but Str, Def (by 0.2) and Lck. That means that, even using Wind, Soren will dealmore damage than Ilyana's Thunder, and he will double-attack while Ilyana will not, doubling the damage he does and making him MUCH more likely to kill an enemy in one round. Tormod . . . well, he owns them all stat-wise. In other words . . . why use Ilyana? You already have a better mage when she joins and you gain another who is statistically superior to both, and a Sage who is just as good, if not better (Think Ilyana as Erk and Calill as Pent.) So what is the point in training Ilyana up when you have better magic users who require less work. Also, skills. Ilyana has the risky Shade skill, which is probably better off dumped once she levels up a ways. Soren comes with Adept. pair that with his high Skl and it quite common for him to get in three attacks per round . . . and to critical on one or so of them. Adept is considerably better than Shade-especially late in the game. Tormod has the very nice Celerity, which is easily more useful than Shade. Even Calill comes with Nihil, which is useful for killing boss. In short, Ilyana's Shade is nothing special compared to the other Sage's skills.
Not really. All the sages can use Thunder, and Calill especial starts with good levels. Ilyana gets a bit of a boost in Thunder level over Soren and Tormod, but either can use Thunder and level it up. Not to mention that any of those 3 will double attack MUCH more frequently than Ilyana, requiring less high level magic. Also, while Ilyana has pretty decent Skl, she doesn't get an overly high Crit. Thunder magic generally has a 5-10% boost, not quite letting her catch up with units such as SwordMasters and Archers . . . even if they are NOT using Killer Weapons. Factor those in, and Ilyana's Critical with Thunder is nothing special --- Considerably less than Soren's chance of activating Adept. Also lower than Oscar's chance to activate Sol. So no, Ilyana is not even close to a One-Hit-Wonder.
Actually, Ilyana's Spd plain out sucks. Do you know who has less Spd than her? Rhys, Gatrie, Mordecai, Brom, Sothe, Devdan, Ulki, Tauroneo, Haar, and Bastion. Let's see . . . that's the 3 Generals, the cripplingly-slow Bishop, the two weakest Laguz, a crappy Halberdier, and a unit who can't promote, a PrePromo Wyver Lord(by less than 1), and the crapiest Sage in a long time. And mages are supposed to be fast. Frankly, with Soren's significant Spd advantage and his noticably higher Mag, he can get away with using weaker tomes and STILL deal more damage than Ilyana.
Yes, Tormod owns everywhere and Calill is only a little better than Ilyana . . . except she comes already promote with secure stats. So again I ask, why would you bother with Ilyana when you have 3 better Sages?
Sure . . . Ilyana can kill Sages (though it will take her quite a while as she will also only deal a couple points of damage). However, throw a physical unit in and she's screwed. Unlike Oscar, who's Strong Def and good Res and HP (and better Evasion) allow him to survive both Physical and Magical onslaughts. If you factor in his Sol skill, he because virtually General-like in his surviveability. Sending Ilyana off on her own, however, is a very bad idea. Her strong Res only saves her from enemy magic-users. Her poor Def and mediochre HP put her in heavy danger from melee units . . . combined with her less stellar Evasion and Spd.
Except that Shade is a gamble and putting Ilyana on the front lines is pretty much suicide, Shade or not. Over Soren? Ignoring that Soren has better Res, the same Def, the same HP, and better Evasion.
Oh? Her better Luck gives her 4-5% better protection against criticals thatn Soren and 5% better than Oscar. Though, both Oscar and Soren are less likely to be hit to be Criticalled, and Oscar could likely survive a Crit from most enemie, unlike Ilyana. And Evasion? Her already good evasion? Her evasion is not already good. It is quite poor, actually. Her Lck saves her from having horrid evasion, but it doesn not allow her to keep up with Soren or Oscar.
Firstly, so you agree Oscar is statistically superior. Second, horrid Skill Set? Compared to Shade? Oscar is a PALADIN! That means he gets the best Mastery skill short of Ike's Aether! Sol is largely regaurded as the best (non-Lord) Skill in the game. It activates on Oscar's Skl (which averages 25), so it has a 25% chance. Oscar will usually double attack enemies, making it closer to a 50% chance of activating each round of battle. Combine that with his highly impressive Def and Res and Oscar has about the same survivability as a General. Ilyana can't even come close to competing. So here's the question . . . which is more useful: Oscar, who is arguably the best Paladin in the game and one of your first units, or Ilyana, probably the second-worst Sage? |
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11:12 PM Nov 27
