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| Sentenal vs Nintend-fan | |
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| Topic Started: May 1 2007, 09:13 AM (440 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | May 1 2007, 09:13 AM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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3 posts each normal rules blah blah blah. HF. |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Sentenal | May 3 2007, 10:52 PM Post #2 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Rhys vs Taruoneo Right, 20/20 Stats... Tauroneo 20/20 HP: 51.6 STR: 25.3 MAG: 11.3 SKL: 21 SPD: 14.8 DEF: 25.6 RES: 16.4 LUK: 14.9 Rhys 20/20 HP: 38.2 STR: 2.9 MAG: 28.9 SKL: 22 SPD: 21 DEF: 11.5 RES: 29.9 LUK: 25 Alright, we got ourselves a Prepromoted Tank, and a Healer. What are the big differences we DO see? Well, Rhys has no HP, STR or DEF. Tauroneo does. Rhys has more MAG than Tauroneo has STR, and Tauroneo has more MAG than Rhys has STR. Rhys has overkill RES, and lots of LUK. Now, what are things we don't see? Well, due to Rhys not having a STR stat, their SPD is much closer than it appears. A Heal Staff lower's Rhy's AS till he promotes, basically. Even at 20/20, he loses 1 AS from a Mend. So even without fighting, Rhys is going to be slower. And note, that for most of the game, he is losing 1-3 AS from Staves alone. Light magic? Heavy shit. Until Rhys gets to be 20/12, he will lose 2 AS from a Light Tome. 4 from a Shine Tome. 10 from a Nosferatu tome! So yeah, Rhys' AS gets to be brought down almost all the time. So 20/20, its more like Rhys' 19 SPD to Tauroneo's 15. Rhys still wins, but it is a smaller win than what it looks. Anyway, I've dwelt too long on AS. Time for the big thing. Rhys is possibily one of the least durable units in the game. He has TERRIBLE HP. He has TERRIBLE DEF. Rhys has problems even being BEHIND the front line, because Bow users (like Paladins), or things with Javelins, would KILL HIM. Tauroneo has excellent durability. He comes with a base DEF of 22, and a base RES of 14. So basically, Tauroneo will be one of your very best tanks, AND he has very good RES for a melee unit as well. How are these units comparing when you first get Tauroneo? FE9 is a bit weird with determining expected levels, so lets put Rhys at 20/12 when you first get Tauroneo. Base Tauroneo HP: 48 STR: 22 MAG: 11 SKL: 18 SPD: 13 DEF: 22 RES: 14 LUK: 14 Rhys 20/12 HP: 35 STR: 2.5 MAG: 27.8 SKL: 21.6 SPD: 18 DEF: 9.5 RES: 28.7 LUK: 21 Well, it is pretty apparent now that Rhys has overkill MAG and RES, and terrible HP STR and DEF. SPD isn't anything to brag about, but then again, neither is Tauroneo's. So, even at this stage of the game, Tauroneo is VASTLY more durable than Rhys. With the number of melee units, compared to magic unit's, Rhys' overkill RES is a waste. Especially a waste, when you consider than Tauroneo's 14 RES is more than plenty. So, same lesson here: Rhys is fragile, Tauroneo is incredibly durable. Now, next argument. RNG Rape. I first refer you back to Tauroneo's bases. 22 STR. 22 DEF. 14 RES. 18 SKL. Tauroneo is virtually impervious to RNG rape. His bases simply won't allow it. Now, Rhy's bases/growths. First, his HP. Rhys' base HP is okay, but his growth of 40% is TERRIBLE for HP. He might get it half the time. But probably won't. And with a stat like HP, where you need to get a good ammount, you can't afford to have such a low growth. Base STR of 0, and a growth of... 5%. I guess it isn't Barth's RES, but that is HORRIBLE. Rhys will be LUCKY if he EVER gets a level up in STR. That is how vulnerable this stat is to RNG rape. He is lucky he gets 1 STR on promotion, otherwise, it is very well possible to have ZERO STR at 20/20. Base of ZERO DEF, with a growth of 25%. Yet another stat he could get horribily raped in. It just adds onto Rhys being a sheet of glass. Rhy's SPD is kinda RNG rapable. In fact, in later chapters (like chapter 26), Rhys will hardly double at all, even with his average. Enemies generally have about 15-17 AS, which Rhys' 17 of the time can't double. Now, next to last arguement. Tauroneo has excellent weapon levels and STR, therefore, can wield any Sword or Lance he wants, for the most part. Check it. Tauroneo comes with a Silver Blade. He wields it with no penality. It has 15 Might. Tauroneo's base STR of 22, gives him 37 Atk with that thing. A Light Tome has... 2 might. Rhys has 29.9 Atk with it. Tauroneo certainly has more ATK, but when you consider DEF-to-RES, it comes out to be more even, with Rhys having a slight lead. Brings Rhys down to 16 AS. However, the point here, is not that Tauroneo will be better at offense. Offense just isn't something you do with 13 base SPD. The point is, that Tauroneo can keep it close in Offense. While destroying Rhys in defense. Plus, Tauroneo can take counter attacks, while Rhys pretty much can't. Next part before I wrap this up. Skills. Tauroneo has Resolve. When Tauroneo gets his HP under 50%, his STR, SKL, and SPD get multiplied by 1.5. Rhys comes with counter, a crappy little SKL that activates on SKL/2. That means at 20/20, Rhys has an 11% chance to deal back half the damage he took. Both EFED and Serenes Forest agree, your skill sucks. Now, the only plus side of that counter, is that since Rhys is gonna be taking like a billion damage, dealing back half a billion damage is good. Now, what does Tauroneo's STR, SKL, and SPD at base look like with Resolve, you ask? Well, he would have 33 STR, 27 SKL, and 19 SPD. Oh shit! When this skill activates, Rhys doesn't even win in OFFENSE! Tauroneo now has 48 Atk with a Silver Sword, SKL dripping out of his ass, and 3 more AS than Rhys. Now, but when this activates, Tauroneo has 25~ HP. Oh noes! Well, lets set aside that Rhys can't really be one to say anything about HP, and consider this: He might have 25~ HP left, but he still has 22 DEF. And 14 RES. So, he is still doing fine. Btw, Rhys isn't worth getting an Occult to. Now, last point before I sum up. Tauroneo, being a Tank, will be on your front lines. In a given turn of Tanking, Tauroneo will enter combat 3~ times. And then, on the Player's Turn, he enters combat another time. So a total of 4 times Tauroneo will enter combat. Basically guaranteed hits too, with his good SKL and probable WTA. Rhys can't afford to be engaged by the enemy on the Enemy's turn. He will die very quickly. No durability has it's drawbacks, for some reason. So, you would only get Rhys in combat on the player's turn. If you are lucky and something doesn't attack him on the enemies' turn. Now, I ask you, in terms of dealing out damage, which is better? Attacking with an Atk of 37, 4 times against DEF. Or an Atk of 30, 1 time (because lets face it, Tauroneo is never doubling, but neither is Rhys), against RES? Obviously, since Tauroneo enters combat 4 times as much as Rhys does, and hits 4 times as much, Tauroneo is better at dealing damage. Summerizing this stuff nows. -Rhys dies. Easily. -Tauroneo never dies. -Tauroneo is next to impervious to RNG rape. Rhys's HP, STR, DEF, and to a lesser extent, SPD, is very vulnerable to RNG rape. -Tauroneo's Skill completely beats the hell out of Rhys. -Tauroneo being a tank puts him in combat 4 times as much as Rhys, therefore, makes him more of a damage dealer. YOUR TURN. I am not liable for any mistakes I may or maynot have made in this post. A Wizard did it. |
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| Nin-Finity | May 5 2007, 08:15 AM Post #3 |
Nintend-Fan
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Beastly Orange Hair vs… Lacking Orange Hair.  First of all, I’d like to point out that EFED has difference stats for 20/20 Rhys than the ones you posted:
I realize that using the stats you posted would’ve worked in my favor, but well, honesty is the best policy, right?
Rhys has his pitfalls, but he makes up for them with the 5th highest MAG (or STR for the melee units) in the game, losing only to Tibarn and Giffca (two of the 3 Gatos) and Boyd and Largo (the two powerful axemen). Rhys is also sporting excellent RES and LCK, and he has average SKL and SPD. Meanwhile, we have Tauroneo, who seems to be lacking in the SPD and LCK departments, and only makes up for this with slightly above average STR and DEF. Everything else about him is just… average.
Rhys is only losing 2 AS from a Heal Staff at most, and pre-promotion, he isn’t even fighting anyway. A difference of 2 AS isn’t much when we’re only considering it for when enemies attack him. That Heal Staff isn’t exactly a big concern for Rhys. Now about that Mend Staff… Rhys is only losing 1 point of AS from it at 20/20. Again, not a huge deal. Besides, when you’re healing roughly 40 damage with a Heal Staff, do you really need a Mend? As far as Light magic is concerned, again, he’s only really dealing with the lightest variety. (no pun intended) Lightning has a WT of 4. Heavy? Not really, considering Taurioneo’s Iron Lance weighs 8. At 20/1, Rhys has about 2 STR, so he’s losing 2 AS. Again, not a huge deal, since it isn’t much of a difference maker. And even if it does prevent Rhys from getting the DA on a few occasions, he’s still hammering away at 23 base damage, against the enemy’s lower RES. By 20/20, Rhys is losing only 1 AS from Lightning, so he’s still got 19 SPD against Taureneo’s 15. That’s still a notable difference; enough to allow Rhys to DA Tauroneo, should that be possible.
37 HP and 11 DEF is enough to prevent Rhys from getting OHKOed, considering you’d need a melee unit with at least 48 attacking power for that to happen. Rhys isn’t exactly getting DAed either, so he’s fine with taking one or two distance attacks per turn behind the frontlines. Also, the majority of distance attackers you face will be magical units, and Rhys is a magical tank. Therefore, he is survivable enough while working behind the frontlines. Notably, there are plenty of people that have roughly the same durability as Rhys, namely Soren, Mist, and Ilyana. And of course, there’s Reyson, who has the worst HP/DEF combination in the entire game. Not everyone can be a tank, you know.
Class-wise, Tauroneo has to compete with Gatrie and Brom for a spot on your roster. Tauroneo’s main use is tanking, yet… both Gatrie and Brom are outdoing him in that department. Sure, Tauroneo is survivable, but why would you ever use him over Gatrie or Brom, the better choices for a tank.
40% isn’t really too shaky growth-wise, and Rhys still gets a decent amount of HP in the end. In the end, he’s only 1 point behind Mist. That’s not so bad, is it?
Yeah, well Heal has a weight of 2. Even if he winds up with 0 STR at level 20, Rhys is barely affected by his low growth. On promotion, he gains 1 point of STR, so the worst case scenario is that Rhys loses 3 AS from Lightning. Not exactly a catastrophe. Although, it’s likely that he might have gained at least 1 more point of STR after 20 levelups, so this brings us back to the same situation as the Heal Staff: a loss of 2 AS. Even with a raped STR stat, Rhys is still performing his job effectively with minimal losses.
25% is a decent one-in-four chance for a point of DEF upon leveling up. Plus, the Knight Band is always an option. Oh, and did I mention that Mist’s growth in DEF is 15%. Hmm, which one of these two has a more rapeable DEF stat?
I beg to differ. If Rhys’s SPD is kinda rapeable, then Tauroneo’s is certainly shaky, with a growth 10% less than Rhys’s. Rhys winds up with higher AS, so if you want to argue that he won’t be doubling, then I can shoot right back that Tauroneo won’t either, and it’s entirely possible that if Rhys doesn’t double attack, then with 4 AS less when both are at 20/20, Tauroneo is actually being double attacked. Not only does Tauroneo have less of a SPD growth, but he also has less levels to grow, which means less chances at gaining a point of SPD.
That’s great and all, but once you finish Chapter 21, Tauroneo has no business using a Silver Blade, since there’s still a good amount of chapters left before the final battle, where you really need that Silver Blade. If you want to argue swords, it’s more likely that Tauroneo will be using an Iron Sword, or maybe a Steel Sword. An Iron Sword will put base Tauroneo at 27 POW, 10 less than what he had with the Silver Blade.
Rhys has more attacking power than Iron Sword Tauroneo, or even Iron Lance Tauroneo, and that’s BEFORE we factor in that Rhys attacks RES. Factor DEF vs. RES, and Rhys probably has more attacking power than Tauroneo attacking with a Steel weapon, even. Also, this gap only widens as the two are leveling, considering that Rhys’s MAG growth is higher than Tauroneo’s STR growth, so Rhys is consistently out-damaging Tauroneo throughout the game. It’s funny that you brought up AS here, because even though Rhys is weighed down by Lightning, he STILL has more AS than base Tauroneo. Another win for Rhys.
Good, because he obviously isn’t.
He’s a general, Rhys is a healer. What can I say? The only argument to this I can really think of is that Tauroneo can’t heal. >.< Whatever, more on that later.
Sure, but Tauroneo’s a tank. His HP isn’t dropping below 50% often, and by that point, you’d probably want to heal him.
Wait… what? Rhys comes with Serenity, a skill that halves the effects of biorhythm. Now, from what I gathered from a thread on the FE9 board, Biorhythm changes each chapter. When your biorhythm is high, you gain +5 HIT and +5 EVA, which is kinda nice. However, when the biorhythm is down, you lose –5 HIT and –5 EVA. So, thanks to Serenity, Rhys isn’t getting screwed over when his biorhythm is low, but he still gets smaller bonuses when his biorhythm is high. What did you read that told you that Rhys had Counter? Because I’d advise not using that source, since it obviously has errors in it. 
Yeah, but in Chapter 21, Rhys has 21.6 SKL, along with 29.9 POW, and 16 AS. Tauroneo with an Iron Sword has 38 POW instead of 48. Factor in DEF vs. RES, and Rhys is keeping up in the damage-dealing department. Both are hitting reliably, so Tauroneo’s SKL lead means next to nothing. And Rhys is only barely trailing in AS. Besides, you aren’t getting these bonuses very often anyway, since Tauroneo has a tough time losing HP.
If he has 22 DEF and 14 RES, how did he get below half HP anyway? The way I figure, Resolve isn’t exactly suited for Tauroneo. You could just bench him, and give the scroll to like… Nephenee, or something. I dunno.
At least his Occult Skill is useful. You’d have to remove Resolve to be able to give Tauroneo an Occult, and Luna isn’t exactly useful. Tauroneo isn’t getting an Occult either.
It’s a real shame that Tauroneo has a tough time keeping up with the rest of your army, due to his lower MOV. You’d have to baby him to get him to the frontlines, thus slowing down the rest of your army. Sure, the same can be said for Rhys, but we aren’t trying to keep Rhys on the frontlines anyway, so it doesn’t really matter for him.
Exaggeration, much? Rhys has enough durability to take at least one hit during the Enemy Phase, and usually that’s all he’ll have to worry about, since he’s behind the frontlines anyway. Rhys is durable enough to survive behind the frontlines.
Look, Tauroneo isn’t using his Silver Blade once chapter 21 ends, so it’s really attacking DEF 4 times with a POW of 27 vs. attacking RES twice with a POW base of 30. Rhys also has a fair chance of doubling, at least moreso than Tauroneo. So Rhys is keeping up in dealing damage, but Tauroneo isn’t keeping up with the frontline units.
That statement pretty much contradicts everything you said about Resolve, because Tauroneo has a tough time getting to half HP, because he doesn’t die.
At least Rhys uses Serenity. (not Counter) Tauroneo has a tough time activating Resolve.
The way I see it, Tauroneo sees combat twice as much as Rhys, IF he can stay on the frontlines. Rhys also deals more damage per attack.
He must be a crappy wizard then, because I noticed a fair amount of mistakes. :/ Moving on to… the wonderful world of UTILITY! Yes, utility, which stats are only a part of. However, there are more elements of utility that give Rhys the edge over Tauroneo. For starters, earlygame Rhys is unique. Nobody else can do what he does for 7 chapters out of 33. (counting the Prologue, Epilogue, and each part of chapter 17) Rhys has guaranteed use from chapter 2 through chapter 9, and perhaps even after that. Meanwhile, Tauroneo has no uniqueness at all when he arrives, and no reason to be used over Gatrie and Brom. More than likely, he’ll be benched after chapter 21. The main thing about Rhys is… he heals. Pre-promotion, only one other unit can do Rhys’s job, and she arrives later, and underleveled. You always want to have a healer in your party, so Rhys has a good chance of seeing use, even after chapter 9. Also, Rhys is the one unit in the game that uses Light magic. So if you want Light magic, you’re using Rhys, no buts about it. Rhys is incredibly unique, and has a lot of utility. Tauroneo doesn’t do anything that Gatrie and Brom can’t do. In fact, Gatrie and Brom are pretty much outdoing Tauroneo in every area. So Tauroneo is pretty much useless. |
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| Sentenal | May 8 2007, 05:07 PM Post #4 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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K, since we sorta figured out Rhys' averages suck, lets modify EFED's averages a bit, like how Rekkien suggested.
K. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference.
Pitfalls, yes... Pits sorta like that one in 300. A bigass pit. Yes, Rhys' MAG is one of the highest. But guess what? He has the second worst HP stat in the game. He only beats Sothe in HP, and thats only because Sothe doesn't promote. Well, I guess he beats Reyson too, but he isn't a combat unit. How bout DEF? He only beats Soren, Illyana, Mist (barely), and Sothe (barely). And the non-combat unit Reyson, but we really won't be considering him, since he doesn't fight. And when you consider supports, Soren gets 22 avoid from Ike, and Mist gets 3 DEF and 7 avoid from Jill. So, I think we can safely put Soren and Mist as more durable units than Rhys. And with Rhys only beating TWO units, and one that can't even PROMOTE. Rhys's DEF SUCKS. Rhys' avoid isn't even that great. Rhys loses 3 AS from a Shine Tome, which would his AS at 18~. Gives him about 60.5 avoid. No one really wants to support Rhys, so he isn't getting any supports. To give you an idea about how his avoid looks, it is only 15~ more than Tauroneo's avoid. And Tauroneo doesn't dodge. So, you have yourself one of the most fragile units in the entire game. His HP and DEF aren't just pitfalls. They are bottemless pits of suck. Also, quick point or two: Yes, Rhys has high MAG. Light Tomes are also weak as shit. 2 might Light? 4 might Shine? On top of that, Rhys' AS is mediocre at BEST, subpar at worst. He isn't any offense machine.
For the purposes of a Tank, Tauroneo's base stats are excellent. He sports good HP, excellent DEF, good STR, good SKL, good RES (I don't see how you can call 14 base RES average), average LUK. He only has SPD problems, and that isn't nearly as fatal as your HP/DEF problems.
2 AS is alot when you hardly have any SPD to begin with. We are putting his base SPD at what, 5~ or something? That gives Rhys a nice 3 AS with a Heal Staff. A unit would only need 7 AS to double him! Rhys isn't fighting, but since he is a healer, he is a high priority target, and being as weak as he is, is hurt. What are you going to do about Cavaliers with Javelins? Or Archers? I know! Hes gonna get pwned! Just because Rhys doesn't attack, doesn't mean things won't attack him. He is a liability.
Suit yourself, don't use mend.
When your unit has a base STR value of 22, nothing is heavy. When you have 3 STR at 20/20, yes, things like Light Tomes are heavy as hell. At 20/1, Rhys loses 2 AS from a Light Tome. That gives him an AS of 11~. Yeah, he IS hurting from that. Rhys' SPD is mediocre at BEST, and that is without him being weighted down. He will hardly be doubling crap with an AS like, that, and when he would only get 23~ Attack from using it, he almost isn't even WORTH using as an offensive unit. Tauroneo's SPD is terrible. Saying "I have 4 more SPD than terrible" doesn't mean you have good AS, or anything like it. You want to know units with good AS values? Ike, with 28~ AS. Oscar, with 25~ AS. Shinon, with 25~ AS. Soren, with 24~ AS (loses about 1 from Elfire). Rolf's 26~ AS. Volke's 30~ AS. Kieran's 25~ AS. Jill's 25~ AS. I think you get the picture. Those are good AS values. Even great AS values. However, Rhys' 19~ AS doesn't compare to them. For example, lets take an endgame chapter, Chapter 26. The one with Bertram. Rhy would be level 20/15 by then, with 19~ SPD, and wiht a light tome, that comes down to 17-18 AS, and 14-15 AD with a Shine tome. AS Values of that chapter: Average Swordmaster Attack Speed: 22 Average Warrior Attack Speed: 14 Average Tiger Attack Speed: 16 Average Cat Attack Speed: 17 Average Sniper Attack Speed: 15 Average Sage Attack Speed: 15 Average General Attack Speed: 8 Average Bishop Attack Speed: 11 Average Halberdier Attack Speed: 15 Average Wyvern Attack Speed: 13 Average Paladin Attack Speed: 17 Bertram's Attack Speed: 22 So... With a Shine tome, you double nothing save Generals and Bishops. With a Light tome, you double nothing other than Generals, Wyverns, Bishops, and MAYBE Warriors. So, yeah, your AS isn't great, Rhys is below average at best in offense.
Consider this situation. A Paladin runs up, and hits Rhys with a bow, and runs away. Beastly mounted advantage. Rhys isn't OHKOed, true. But with his HP and DEF, he is getting close to it. Now, the next paladin runs up, and does the same. And it doesn't even have to be a bow. It could be a Javelin. Or a hand-axe. So no, he isn't fine. If he gets attacked once, he is in the red zone, and if attacked twice, maybe dead.
Actually, no. That is false. Magic users are always the minority. This game is no exception (and my limited playthroughs lead me to believe they are even less common than others). Paladins can use Bows. Javelins are common. Horses with Bows/Javelins, and Wyverns with Javelins are alot more common than magic users.
Soren gets tons of avoid from Ike Support, plus is better all around than Rhys. Mist is a better unit that Rhys, and IS more durable than him when you consider supports. Illyana sucks, good job. Having the same HP/DEF as some of the most fragile units in the game doesn't make Rhys magically, all the sudden, durable.
Why use Rhys over Soren, Tormod, Mist, or Calill? All those units are better magic users. And don't give me this crap about "Omg LIGHT MAGIC!!" Light Magic just happens to be a crappy version of anima magic. Your class hurts you more than anything. At least Tauroneo being a General allows him Lances and Swords. So why would you use Rhys over any of those BETTER units? What if you didn't get a good Gatrie or Brom? What if you didn't want to use them? Well, Tauroneo is there for that. Excellent base stats, excellent weapon levels, best skill in the game.
When he has one of the worst HP stats in the game, yes, it is.
NO he is NOT. If Rhys gets in the worst case scenario of 1 STR at 20/20 (very possible with 5% growth), he would lose 5 AS from Shine, and 3 AS from Light. That would give him 18 AS at 20/20, which will prevent him from consistantly doubling. Face it, your SPD isn't good enough for you to be a good offensive unit.
Who in their right mind would give Rhys the Knight Band? And LOL I didn't know we were debating Mist! Okay, her DEF is more rapable! Doesn't mean that Rhys' isn't lol
Yeah? Tauroneo's purpose is to be a tank, a defensive unit, not an offensive unit. Rhys... Well, he is a terrible defensive unit. So, in order for him to have use, he would have to be a good offensive unit, right? Well, with Rhys' SPD, he isn't. But lol yeah you have better SPD than Tauroneo. Because, that actually matters or something. Oh wait, it doesn't...
Ummm Iron Weapons don't exist anymore at that point in the game. Two reasons for this: You have no funds Rank. Steel Swords would be the lowest he would go. And since you have no Funds rank to worry about, you can by more expensive weapons, and BUY more expensive weapons. CON=STR, in regards to weight. You use Iron weapons in GBA games because of funds, yes, but also because more expensive weapons slow you down. Not in this game, at this point. Tauroneo can use any Sword or Lance he wants, for the most part. So, I'll keep my WTFPWNAGE Silver Blade and Spear.
Good job on missing the point. Iron Weapons don't exist. Tauroneo is using high powered weapons, so his base ATK is more than Rhys'. FACT. Rhys will barely be outdamaging Tauroneo. And neither unit has good enough AS to double. Sorry. You are barely outdamaging Tauroneo. Tauroneo isn't a good offensive unit. Rhys is only marginally better than Tauroneo in offensive. This means Rhys isn't a good offensive unit.
So we agree that Rhys sucks in both Offense and Defense now. Good.
YAY! So Tauroneo never dies! You can send him anywhere, and he tanks excellently! This means he can survive nearly any situation! Or, when Resolve turns on, Tauroneo ass rapes things. Either way, good shit for Tauroneo.
http://www.eaichu250.superbusnet.com/FE9/f...aracterdata.php EFED. And... Uhhh, sure even if I got the skill wrong, Serenity is an even worse Skill. Rhys has decent SKL and decent accuracy of Light magic means he probably won't be missing, even with -5 from Biorythems. So, okay, you can have a TERRIBLE, USELESS skill. That is fine with me. The point that Tauroneo's Skill>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rhys' skill is only more apparent now.
Invalid point, because Iron Weapons are no longer in use by this point in the game. Tauroneo is using high powered weapons. And yeah, Tauroneo has a tough time losing HP! YES, Tauroneo is such a good tank. Thanks for agreeing with me. Must be hard to be in your position. Either, Tauroneo tanks everything excellently, or Tauroneo's beastly Resolve activates. Win-Win situations for me pwn.
Dragons, Tigers, hard hitting Wyverns, things of that nature. You know, enemies that are really beastly. Beastly enemies bring out Tauroneo's BEAST MODE. For example, when one of these enemies makes Tauroneo go beast mode, he would have 62~ ATK on a Laguz, with a Laguz Lance. He becomes one your hardest hitting unit.
Good, I don't want an Occult. Let me keep my Resolve, its better by far.
Tauroneo's 6 MOV, and no Tactics Rank, allows Tauroneo to keep up on the frontlines easily. And if Rhys wants do do something, he has to be on the row behind the 'frontlines'. So if neither of us can keep up, neither of us can do anything.
lol I would HOPE he is durable to take at least one hit. But thing is, with Paladins and Wyverns having mounted advantage, and ranged weapons like Bows and Javelins being out there, Rhys is gonna have a hard time living. Mounted advantage means more than one attack per enemy turn, possibily.
Both invalid points, addressed above.
You die when you get to 0 HP, not 25. And that is about the HP range Tauroneo has to be to use Resolve. So no, it doesn't contradict it.
"At least Rhys has worthless skill!" lol
Rhys isn't doubling all that often, so nah, Tauroneo attacks 4 times as much. Address above.
For starters, earlygame Ellen is unique. Nobody else can do what she does for 2 chapters out of 31. (counting gaidens) Ellen has guaranteed use from chapter 2 through chapter 4, and perhaps even after that. Meanwhile, Miledy has no uniqueness at all when she arrives, and no reason to be used over Bors and Barth. More than likely, she’ll be benched after chapter 13. </satire> Yeah, so you are earlygame healer. Once Mist comes, Rhys' uniqueness is gone. Once your mages promote, Rhys' uniqueness is even lower.
Wait, what? Did you forget about Sages? Sages get Staves on promotion. So, yeah, even less uniqueness for you. So lets look at it this way. You would only need two healers at the MOST, on the hardest chapters. And for that, you have Mist and Soren. Sorry, Rhys aren't unique enough to use. And Light magic sucks. Anima>>>>>Light. Anima has effective bonuses, and most of it is stronger. So, Rhys is 'unique'. That doesn't make him good. It doesn't make him decent. It means you use him while you have two, then bench him for Mist. Defensively, Tauroneo RAPES Rhys. Offensively, both units are bad, but Rhys is slightly better. Well, at least when Resolve isn't active, then Tauroneo RAPES Rhys in offensive. And then Rhys is your only healer for 7 chapters. Do that really make him a good unit? Nah. |
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| Nin-Finity | May 9 2007, 03:20 PM Post #5 |
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Nintend-Fan
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MAG has nothing to do with HP, so let’s not abruptly change topics to make Rhys look bad. Rhys has a solid lead of 4.5 MAG over Tauroneo’s STR, kthx. NOW we can move on.
Rhys isn’t exactly a heavy combat unit either, since his main function is healing, so don’t use that excuse for Reyson. You pointed out that Rhys only BEATS 2 units in the HP department, but you need to take some other things into account: -Soren has only 1.1 more HP than Rhys. -Illyana and Bastion only beat Rhys by .9. -Mist ties Rhys in HP. -Tormod only has a 2 HP lead. -Calil beats Rhys by only 1 point. -Elincia only has a lead of .4. That’s a lot of other people in Rhys’s HP range. Rhys’s HP is among the worst in the game… but many other units share that same HP range, which goes to show you that Rhys isn’t as bad off as you originally thought.
Avoid =/= Defense, kthx. We can talk about Soren’s avoid later, but that doesn’t change the fact that Rhys beats him in defense. Notice something: all the people Rhys beats in DEF are his competition on your roster. If he’s beating all them and being more durable, that’s one more reason to be using him.
Soren and Mist barely have leads over Rhys, and that still leaves Illyana, Sothe, and Reyson, who are three units, not two. For our purposes, Reyson should count in this comparison, because both him and Rhys are utility units, not heavy combat fighters.
That’s still enough to DA a good amount of enemies; more than Tauroneo at least.
O RLY? Let’s look at Rhys’s support roster: -Kieran, Rolf, Titania, Ulki, Mia Kieran isn’t supporting Rhys, since he wants Oscar and Marcia. Rolf is a viable option for Rhys, since his only other options are Shinon, Marcia, Mist, and Tauroneo. You probably aren’t using Shinon if you’re using Rolf in the first place, so the two of them probably won’t support. Marcia is a bad option for Rolf. Tauroneo comes way too late; by then, Rhys can have A Rolf if he wants. That leaves Mist, who still has room to support Rolf, even if Rhys does. Titania supports Boyd, Ike, Rhys, and Mist. Ike won’t have room on his roster to support Titania, since he wants A Soren B Oscar. Mist will probably support Jill, and Boyd, Rolf, and Mordecai are all more likely choices for her than Titania. Titania might want Boyd, but a Rhys support is welcome too. Ulki has barely any support options, and Boyd definitely won’t support him, so that’s another option open to Rhys if he wants it. Mia’s only other options are Illyana and Largo. She certainly doesn’t want Largo, so that’s yet another option open to Rhys. Rhys can probably get A Titania, and a B with either Mia or Rolf. Rolf offers better bonuses for Rhys, so let’s go with him for B support. Rhys’s bonuses from this setup are: ATK: 2 DEF: 1 ACC: 25 AVO: 5 Rhys becomes even more of an offensive powerhouse, with slightly fortified defenses. Tauroneo, on the other hand, has the following roster: -Largo, Rolf It’s a pretty pathetic roster. Rolf doesn’t want Tauroneo because he’s too busy supporting Rhys and… someone not named Tauroneo. That leaves Largo. Largo would prefer A Muarim, probably, so that leaves room for Tauroneo to get a B support with him, with the following bonuses: DEF: 1 ACC: 5 AVO: 10 Rhys is the clear winner in supports.
Yeah, “one of” the most fragile units. Most of the other mages are in the same boat.
For the purposes of a Tank, Tauroneo is completely beaten by Gatrie and Brom at the same level:
Tauroneo wins in MAG, RES, LCK. Gatrie wins in… everything else. SPD is a tie. Gatrie is the clear winner. Now, here’s Brom:
Same as Tauro vs. Gatrie, except this time, Tauroneo fails to even tie in SPD. He has leads in MAG, RES, and LCK, but Brom wins EVERYWHERE ELSE. With two other, superior tanks readily available, there’s no reason for Tauroneo to exist on your roster, good bases or no.
Keep him out of range of enemies, it isn’t difficult in the earlier chapters where his defenses make him a liability. In the lategame, he has the stamina to take one or two melee attacks, not to mention his magical tanking abilities.
Rhys doesn’t have to, when he heals roughly 40 HP with a Heal at 20/20. There’s virtually no use for a Mend with Rhys’s phenomenal MAG, which is an advantage, not a disadvantage.
When you only lose 1 AS… not really. Rhys prefers healing anyway.
Last time I checked, this was Rhys vs. Tauroneo, not Rhys vs. everyone. All those AS values hardly matter in this debate when Rhys STILL DAs more than Tauroneo. Yet another reason to use him over the overshadowed tank.
Lol @ Inui using this same data to prove that Rhys has decent AS. Anyways, what’s doubling Rhys? Only Swordmasters… and Bertram, but that doesn’t concern Rhys, since he has huge RES against Bertram’s Runesword. Against all non-Swordmaster enemies, Rhys is doing fine. How does that make him terrible? (Tauroneo is getting doubled by Swordmasters, Cats, Paladins, and Bertram, and only doubles the other Generals. Rhys does way better)
If you see two Bow Knights near your frontlines, why the hell would you be stupid enough to put Rhys in range of BOTH? Look, most distance attackers will be: -Foot units that will attack once and be unable to move away afterwards. -Magical units that just tink against Rhys. So really, all you need to do is keep Rhys away from large hordes of Paladins, and he’ll be doing fine.
I was saying that magical units are the majority of distance attackers, which is pretty much true, especially with all the mages running around with Bolting and whatnot. More often than not, melee enemies will be using close-range weapons instead of distance weapons.
And I’m not saying that it does, I’m saying that if these units are worth using, then why isn’t Rhys? He’s just as durable as most of the other magical units, as well as Reyson and Sothe.
Rhys arrives before Mist does, so he has a good-sized level lead when she arrives, so in the earlygame, Rhys is actually better than Mist. Post-promotion, Rhys is also better at attacking, since he wields lighter weaponry, and attacks RES. All the Sages can’t heal until they promote, and by then, Rhys is a solid part of your team anyway.
If you didn’t want to use Gatrie or Brom, why would you want to use Tauroneo? Obviously, if your Gatrie gains some bad levelups, you could use Brom, and vice-versa. The odds of BOTH turning out badly are really slim, and that isn’t a viable reason to be using Tauroneo. Sure, he’s got the best skill in the game, but that’s what the Resolve scroll is for.
A 5% chance over 33 levelups gives Rhys good odds of gaining a point or two in STR. A point or two is all he really needs, anyway. Besides, the averages take every possible outcome into consideration already, so we should really be debating those, not simple “what ifs”.
Then Tauroneo must be really crappy offensively, because he’s doing worse.
The whole purpose of it is to help a unit’s defense. So why not use it on someone with low defense? Who did you want to give it to, Gatrie?
Rhys’s main purpose is healing, which he does phenomenally. Offense is secondary for him, and he’s fairly strong in that area. Rhys is very useful, because usefulness doesn’t always equal high stats.
Newsflash: Steel Sword =/= Silver Blade. Give Tauroneo a Steel Sword if you want, but Rhys STILL outdamages him. There’s no funds rank, but that doesn’t mean that you spam Silver weapons in the middle of the game. That’s just dumb.
No, that’s called being dumb. Silver Blades are tough to come by, and you need them more in the final chapter than in chapter 22. Tauroneo gets Steel Weapons at best.
Well, even if I did, I’m not the only one.
Not using Iron Weapons =/= Spam Silver Blades. Rhys outdamages Tauroneo. Rhys has more AS than Tauroneo. Therefore, Rhys has better offense than Tauroneo.
It’s a typo. Turn on your Gamecube and check it if you don’t believe me.
Spamming Silver Blades is retarded. Moving on…
Yeah, there are less than 10 Dragons in the entire game. Not many Tigers either. Most Wyverns won’t be strong enough to bring Tauroneo to below half health. Resolve is wasted on Tauroneo.
Good, we agree that Rhys is more likely to get an Occult than Tauroneo. Flare > Luna.
Tactics or no tactics, you still want to use the units that are most helpful, and Tauroneo isn’t one of them. Rhys has no use on the frontlines anyway, so, like I said, keeping up isn’t a concern for him.
At least he puts his skill to use. Tauroneo rarely is able to activate Resolve.
No, that doesn’t work. Miledy is high tier, and is superior to Bors and Barth. Tauroneo is low tier, and is INFERIOR to Gatrie and Brom. Rhys has more uniqueness time than Ellen. I stand by what I originally said.
Sure, let’s bench Rhys, and wait until Chapter 15 (roughly) before we can promote a Sage to heal our units. Ye… no.
It makes him incredibly useful for the earlygame, and worthwhile even after that. Even if you want to argue that you bench him when Mist comes (which I don’t really agree with), Rhys is still guaranteed to be used in chapters 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9. Seven chapters. Tauroneo gets… 1, then gets benched, while you use Gatrie or Brom. Last time I checked, 7 > 1. The reality is, this is low tiers. You never use any of these guys instead of their superior counterparts. This works to Rhys’s advantage, because his “replacement” doesn’t come until seven chapters later, and she’s severely underleveled and stuck with a crappy promotion weapon. Rhys is one of the better low tiers, because you can actually consider using him. Tauroneo… not so much. You’ll bench him after chapter 21, because his replacements are already in your army, probably with level leads. (One of them, anyway) Rhys > Tauroneo. 
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| Sentenal | May 13 2007, 12:48 AM Post #6 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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It's like this: You give a plus, I give a negative. YAY WOW HE HAS HIGH MAG!!! LETS IGNORE HIS AYSMAL HP!!! Nah, sry. Rhys has a solid 4.5 MAG lead over Tauroneo's STR... Beacause you know, MAG and STR are the only things that factor into Atk!! Wait! I forgot! Tauroneo can use nearly any Sword or Lance he WANTS, while Rhys can only use shit tomes that have like, 2 might on them. And, lets not forget Resolve now, which puts his STR above what Rhys could possibly get. So nah, that isn't a "solid" 4.5 lead by anymeans.
Rhys having around the same HP as units who have shit HP doesn't make Rhys not have shit HP. Fact: Rhys has TERRIBLE HP. The fact that those other units also have terrible HP doesn't change that fact.
Durability=HP+Avoid+DEF+RES (not as much, but its there, I guess). And actually, only two of the people I listed are on my roster. Soren and Mist. So screw the others, I'll illustrate them for you. Soren: 39.1 HP, 9.7 DEF, 95.2 Avoid, 27.5 RES. Ike A, Stefan B. Mist: 38 HP, 15.7 DEF, 84.6 Avoid, 29.1 RES. Jill A, Titania B. Rhys: 38 HP, 10.7 DEF, 66.3 Avoid, 29.9 RES. Obviously, Rhys is the least durable of all these. Mist bows Rhys out of the fucking water, and she is Rhys' near direct replacement. 15.7 DEF and 29.1 RES (1 RES, who cares?), after supports? 85 avoid after supports? And lol Rhys only ties in HP. Soren? Kinda closer there. Rhys has 1 DEF on him. Soren has... 28.9 avoid on him... 29 Avoid>>>>>>>>1 DEF. Sorry, both of these units are significantly more durable than Rhys. And to top it off, both are better in Offense, because both have a good SPD Stat, Good to omg MAG stat, and Mist has decent STR for swords. So, even though his HP, and DEF is deceptively close to these two units, they are both significantly more Durable than Rhys. Therefore, Rhys is still much less durable than some of the least durable people on your team. BADDDDD Rhys.
Okay then, all your points on Rhys' MAG, and dealing damage are null? Okay, fine with me. Rhys, the one trick pony. We both now ackowledge he sucks too much in durability and too medicore in SPD to be anything other than a utility unit.
It's enough to double attack like... Generals. Maybe some Wyverns. Sorry, I sorta posted proof of that...
Wait... Rolf is actually getting used? Why? If I want a bow users, I'll use Astrid.
Titania can have Boyd and Mist. Sorry, still no room for you.
WHY DO I WANT TO USE OTHER BAD UNITS? Ulki is a freaking Laguz Shit bird, and Stefan and Zihark>>>>>>>>Mia. I'm not using either of them. So, in conclusion, the only people who 'want' your support are crappy units that I wouldn't even be using in the first place, and the rest have other, BETTER people to support. So, Rhys isn't getting an supports.
...What? Listen, dude, getting 25 Hit and 2 Atk doesn't make you an offensive powerhouse, when you already overkill MAG, and yet you still don't have the AS to reliabily double. Or did Rhys have problems hitting things before the 25 hit? And the 1 DEF and 5 avoid are pitiful, and not worth mentioning.
I'll say it again... Why am I using Rolf? Hell, why am I using Largo? Even with my supports, they don't exist. And still, I find it funny, that my supports come dangerously close your supports, with just 1 B. 1 DEF and 10 Avoid vs 2 Atk 1 DEF and 5 Avoid? If it wasn't for that 2 Atk, then Tauroneo's 1 B support would be >>>>>>> Rhys' A and B support ROFL
Already disproven.
You know what? Having slightly worse DEF than two of the most tanky units in the game doesn't mean that Tauroneo has bad DEF. His DEF is still excellent, his RES is still great. His STR is still great. So what if he isn't AS good as those two? You havn't proven anything other than Gatrie or Brom > Tauroneo, when this is Tauroneo vs Rhys. Are you trying to say Tauroneo has bad DEF or something, like what I did with my comparisions? Doesn't look like it.
He actually is better defensively earlier, because he has a decent HP base... It's later on when his HP growth bites him in the ass that he becomes terribly fragile. And he can take one melee attack. MAYBE two, but I kinda doubt it. Plus, if you keep him out of ranged attacks of enemies, that means he can't heal your front line. You know, the people who need it the most. So you are even handicapping your own healing utility! Because if he is behind the first row, he is in range of enemy ranged attacks.
Losing 1 AS at 20/20... From the lightest Book you have.... Yeah, they are heavy for him. And lets not forget how easily rapable Rhys's 5% STR growth is. He could easily never get a STR leve up. And lose like... 3 AS.
THANKS FOR MISSING THE POINT. The point, that you so gracefully missed, was that Rhys doesn't have good AS. Tauroneo doesn't either, so I'm not arguing it. But guess what? Fire Emblem doesn't care if you have 17 AS, or 14 AS, if neither double. THAT is my point. NEITHER UNITS DOUBLE. Or hardly double. This is a reason why Rhys isn't good in offense. Tauroneo isn't either, but that isn't his function. Come on, lets look at the large picture! 
Great, nothing is doubling Rhys. Care to address my point on Rhys hardly doubling anything? Rhys only doubles like, Generals and Wyverns. And Doubles only Generals with a Shine tome. Therefore, against the rest, he is only hitting once. Making his offense weak. Tauroneo's Offense isn't good either. But at least his Defense rapes. Rhys isn't good in either (and is terrible in once).
Because you sorta have to advance in order to complete chapters? Plus, with them being mounted, they sorta have lots of MOV. And, OTHER healers can do it. So why can't Rhys? Oh wait... Rhys sucks in DEF, thats why... You see, even I forget these things.
There are more bows and javelins than magic users. And when enemies can, they use distance weapons. That is how the AI works.
Already addressed.
Mist actually has a decent STR stat, so she isn't getting slowed down as much as Rhys. Mist is also needed for the Black Knight fight. She is insanely more durable than Rhys. She is fine on offense. And she gets mounted on promotion too. And, instead of getting shitty Light Magic, she gets swords. So, don't use her at your own risk. I mean, you are free to shoot yourself in the foot. It's just stupid. Also, the second one of your mages promotes to Sage, you have a better Healer than Rhys.
If your Gatrie got bad level ups, he would still be better than Brom, who would have gotten no use up to that point, because you were using Gatrie. So its too late for Brom, and you have a bad Gatrie. Tauroneo time. And plus, Tauroneo is a fine unit to use, even if you are using either Gatrie or Brom. You havn't disproved that in the least.
We are talking deviations of stats too. And with that STR growth, he could very well have a raped STR stat.
If Tauroneo has 14 SPD, and Rhys has like, 18 SPD, neither double a unit with 16 SPD. That is what this comes down to. Tauroneo isn't good in offense. I've already said that. Rhys being marginally better than shit doesn't make him good lol
Oscar?
Rhys' usefulness in healing ends with Mist, and then super ends when Soren promotes. Healing isn't in high demand, so it isn't really an OMG HUGGGE PLUS.
Look at me, I'm gonna make a claim (you don't use Silver Weapons midgame), and no back it up! Give me a good reason why. It's not like you can't buy anymore. No Funds, remmeber?
At worst*, because nothing worse than Steel exists anymore. And lol try backing it up next time, that Steel Weapons are something to be used "at best".
8===========D~~~~~~
Good job on having better offense than a unit with bad offense. It doesn't make Rhys' good.
You asked for the source, so I was just telling you.
Back up that claim with evidence.
Holy shit, you pwn! Wyverns don't stand a chance against Tauroneo, by YOUR OWN ADMISSION.Btw, Tigers are kinda common. And endgame, which what Tauroneo is around for, Dragons are a big thread. And there are also plenty of Warriors to help get his HP down. Btw, this kinda pwns. Either I take shit damage, or I go beast mode. Win win.
Resolve > Flare > Luna...? And not like it even matters, since Rhys isn't getting one in the first place lol I don't even have to waste a scroll on him to get a pwnage skill.
Rhys has to be 1 row behind the frontlines if he wants to heal. With no tactics, Tauroneo can keep up find, and he tanks very well. I mean, you even said it yourself: Even Wyverns don't pose a threat to him.
Untrue. Axes or Dragons or Tigers can do the trick.
If we don't assume Rhys' use, he is just a filler character you drop and never think of again. Just like Ellen. Tauroneo has great bases, just like Miledy. Plus, people actually look at base Tauroneo, and their Gatrie/Brom when you get them, and go ":hmm: Maybe I want to use this guy. He is unscrewable in stats, has great weapon levels (AKA uses any weapon he wants almost), and the best skill in the game." People look at Rhys, and go "  When do I get Mist, so I can drop this fag!"
Because Mist doesn't exist until chapter 15. Ye... no.
You are forced to use him... Okay? You aren't forced to use Tauroneo...? Okay? That is like saying Roy>Percival, because you are forced to use Roy the entire game. When Tauroneo is present, he is better than Rhys. And that is the point here. This last point of yours is kinda weak. :richie:
Tauroneo is a subsitute, and Rhys is filler. Which is better? Btw, Swords>Light. Plus, I think I already addressed most of this in a previous paragraph. So, in closing, lets look at these things: What makes a unit? It is a combination of Offense, Defense, and utility. Offensively, Tauroneo is bad, but so is Rhys. Defensively, TAURONEO FUCKING BLOWS RHYS OUT OF THE WATER. Utility wise, Tauroneo is a prepromoted Tank, who requires no training/babying. Tanking utility. Rhys is your earlygame healer, who you drop after you get Mist, because then he isn't 'best' in anything anymore. Yeah. So, in conclusion, Otto Von Bismark (aka Tauroneo) > Rhys. |
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| Nin-Finity | May 13 2007, 08:30 AM Post #7 |
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Nintend-Fan
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Okay, before I start with my counters, there’s one large point I’d like to make about Rhys’s superiority to Tauroneo. Rhys arrives in chapter 2, and he’s the only healer that you’ll have for awhile. You are definitely going to use him; hell, you’re forced into bringing him, so you might as well use him. This is the case for 7 chapters. Rhys gets 7 chapters of guaranteed use and unmatched utility. Why? Because nobody else can heal. That makes Rhys one of the most important units on your roster for those 7 chapters. Then along comes Mist. Let’s say that we got Rhys to level 8, because 4 levels over 7 chapters is reasonable for a healer.
Mist wins STR… by .8. She’s doomed to be using heavier weapons than Rhys upon promotion however. (more on that later) She wins SPD by… .4. Not exactly impressive, especially since it’s only being applied to see whether or not you get DAed by enemies. And lastly, she wins DEF by 1. Rhys, however, not only has a larger DEF growth, but also has a lead of 7.1 in HP; easily better than 1 DEF. Where else does Rhys win? MAG, by 7.9. Mist heals 14 damage with a Heal staff, but Rhys heals 22.1. Which would you rather have? Rhys wins in SKL, which is useless for now, but lets him hit well when he promotes. Rhys has a lead of 7.2 in RES. That’s more than twice Mist’s RES. Rhys is a magical tank. Rhys wins in LCK by 3.5, which helps in many areas. Even after chapter 9, Rhys is a viable option for healing. If you want to use Mist, you need to either feed her BEXP, or she’ll be underleveled for pretty much the whole game. Mist gets stuck with a crappier class upon promotion. She’s forced to use melee weapons, which doesn’t allow her to attack RES like Rhys does, but also handicaps her, because her MAG is better than her STR. She also is stuck with heavier weaponry than Rhys. Tauroneo is recruited in Chapter 21. By the time you reach him, however, you’ve pretty much finished 3/4 of the chapter. However, Tauroneo needs to compete with two other Generals to earn a spot on your roster.
If you’ve been using Gatrie, he’ll probably be at or near Tauroneo’s base level when he arrives. Same for Brom, pretty much. Anyways, Sentenal, your only argument against this has been “What if you get a bad Gatrie?” Well, let’s look at Gatrie’s growths:
Gatrie is tied for highest DEF growth in the game. Is it likely that his DEF will turn out poorly? No. His growths in HP, STR, and SKL are also very reliable. He’s got decent RES, and is even doing well enough in LCK and SPD. Overall, Gatrie has reliable growths. Even if you do start leveling Gatrie, and he gets a few bad levelups before he leaves (unlikely), you can always fall back on Brom.
Both of them are clearly outdoing Tauroneo when he arrives. Now, Brom’s growths:
Fairly reliable overall, although he’s really only a substitute for the superior Gatrie. But hey, that makes Tauroneo a substitute for a substitute, which is really pathetic. Brom has no really shaky areas, except LCK really. Most likely, you’ll have one of them, whichever one you use, turn out better than Tauroneo. Tauroneo gets benched after Chapter 21. You used him for 1/4 of a chapter. Remember, you used Rhys for at least 7 chapters, and you might even use him over Mist. Therefore, Rhys is clearly better than Tauroneo, mainly because you actually use him. Okay Sent, if I skip some of your points, it’s because I already covered them in that big point I just made. So… here we go:
Don’t forget that Rhys attacks RES, and Tauroneo attacks DEF. Give Tauroneo the better weaponry, but Rhys STILL deals more damage.
Yeah, I never said it did. My point is that low HP doesn’t stop other units from being great, so it shouldn’t stop Rhys.
Yeah, except you didn’t give Rhys any supports. :| Here’s the stats with Rhys’s supports added: Soren: 39.1 HP, 9.7 DEF, 95.2 Avoid, 27.5 RES. Ike A, Stefan B. Mist: 38 HP, 15.7 DEF, 84.6 Avoid, 29.1 RES. Jill A, Titania B. Rhys: 38 HP, 11.7 DEF, 71.3 Avoid, 30.9 RES. Titania A, Rolf B Rhys has solid DEF leads over Soren, which Soren counters with 25 avoid. Remember though, DEF never varies. Dodge relies completely on the RNG. I prefer solid numbers to random numbers, personally. Mist has a less impressive 15 avoid lead, and 4 DEF over Rhys. Rhys’s answer to that is superior RES, and better offense. However, Rhys would probably have a level lead over Mist if we discount BEXP. So a 20/20 comparison isn’t exactly accurate, since Mist would be a few levels lower.
You’ve been arguing that Tauroneo is mainly a defensive unit. Does that make your points on his offense null? No. So why would that apply to my argument that Rhys is mainly a utility unit?
Lol contradictions. You posted proof that he DA’ed Generals, Wyverns, Bishops, and “maybe” Warriors. That’s more than just Generals. Tauroneo is the one who can only DA Generals. Not Rhys.
Wait… Tauroneo is actually getting used? Why? If I want a tank, I’ll use Gatrie. See what I mean?
Mist wants Jill, and Boyd and Mordecai are both more welcome than Titania. Besides, are you using Mist and Rhys at the same time? Probably not. So if you’re using Rhys, there’s room on Titania’s roster for a support with him.
I’ve put up a reasonable argument over what Rhys’s supports could be, and he can easily support Titania, and Rolf if he gets used.
Yeah, but nearly-capped MAG does.
It helps. It’s better than nothing, after all.
Why are you using Tauroneo? Suit yourself, don’t support Tauroneo if you don’t want to. His options are all crappy anyway.
If Gatrie or Brom > Tauroneo, then Gatrie or Brom is used over Tauroneo. When Tauroneo ceases to exist on your roster, then Rhys is obviously doing better.
Not everyone is on the frontlines. And if someone on the frontlines needs to be healed, Rhys can afford to take one ranged attack during the enemy phase.
Fire Emblem certainly cares if your AS is 17 or 14 when an enemy with 12 AS walks by. Or an enemy with 19 AS. See what I mean? You can’t shove aside a solid AS lead and say it means nothing. That’s like me ignoring Rhys’s lower DEF and screaming LOOK AT THE LARGE PICTURE.
Yeah, but the foot units with bows and javelins aren’t problematic for Rhys, since he can take the one attack they shoot at him, and then they can’t move away. Those guys, plus mages, are far more common than distance-attacking Paladins.
Rhys is needed for chapters 2-8. That’s more important than the BK fight.
Oh boy, let’s use Mist’s lower-than-her-MAG STR and attack DEF, instead of using magic and attacking RES. I’ll take Light Magic, kthx.
What about the units with 12 SPD? Or 20 SPD? The AS difference is important.
Yeah, exactly how many armories stock Silver Weapons? Do you seriously spam Silver Weapons in the midgame? Or are you just arguing that because it favors Tauroneo?
It makes him better than Tauroneo, whom we are comparing him to.
With or without ranks, this debate is still about which characters make you finish chapters quicker and more effectively. If Tauroneo is holding your entire army back, he isn’t exactly accomplishing that.
You were arguing that a Sage could be your main healer. :/
Rhys’s utility is unmatched in the earlygame, because YOU NEED A HEALER. Rhys has healing utility, which is the most valuable utility to have in the earlygame. Tauroneo tanks. Yay? So do Gatrie and Brom, and they do it better. Rhys wins in utility. In conclusion, Rhys is better than Tauroneo because you actually use him. He also is better offensively, and has more utility. Beastly Orange Hair > …Lacking Orange Hair.
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| +Ema Skye | May 13 2007, 05:09 PM Post #8 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Voting time. |
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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9:08 AM Nov 8
