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| Hollie vs Sentenal | |
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| Topic Started: May 15 2007, 03:51 PM (504 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | May 15 2007, 03:51 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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normal low tierz yeahuzz |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| +Hollie | May 17 2007, 05:04 PM Post #2 |
Resident Brit
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Why the fuck am I going first? Ah well. I'll make the best of it. So, this is Mia vs. Tauroneo, or Bismark or whatever you want to call him. All I can say is that, if you were fapping off Lethe in your previous debates, then Mia must seem like a goddess to you or something. Moving on. In this game, enemies are really durable due to existing Spd and Luk stats and high HP/Def combos in a lot of cases. Paladins in the endgame - about 40 HP and 20 Def. Is it more important to kill these enemies, or to tank them? In FE9, pretty much all your characters (the exceptions being like, Soren when he's unsupported, or Rhys or something) are durable. Some are more durable than others, but off the top of my head I can't think of a single melee unit who would struggle to survive against the enemy. So, then, if everyone can survive, you may as well just pick the units you like, right? Sorry, wrong. These enemy units are pretty durable, remember? So, if most units available to you can survive against the enemy, the deciding factor must be their offence. Mia > Tauroneo in offence. Tharfore, Mia should be picked over Tauronero. I don't really need to argue this, do I? Mia has lower Str, but much better Skl and her Spd means she'll be doubling everything but Ashnard, basically (I can't actually remember if she does double Ashnard, but it's irrelevent since neither can kill him anyways). Tauro has higher strength and access to a wide variety of weaponry, but he only doubles Generals and the like. Mia has better offence. Offence is more needed. Mia is more needed. That'll do for a first post. |
Known as Haar on Brand of Flame. Bitch.  Formerly Margaret Thatcher, Aleksandr | |
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| Sentenal | May 20 2007, 02:37 PM Post #3 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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So, the basis of your arguement is that Mia's offense>Tauroneo's? Well, with the lack of numbers you posted, let us make sure. Endgame, Mia has 28~ Atk with a Steel Sword. Endgame, Tauroneo has 35~ Atk with a Steel Lance. And enemies have 20 DEF, you say? That translates to Mia doing 8~ damage twice (for 16~ damage), and Tauroneo doing 15~ damage once. Both need 3 rounds against your 40 HP enemies. And I suppose, when you factor in Crit, Mia pulls ahead a bit. But, let me through another thing out there. Tauroneo has Javelins and Spears for 1-2 ranged attacks. Tauroneo with a Spear (that Tauroneo comes with), for example, has 37~ Atk, which translates to 17~ damage against your enemies. So with a Spear, not only is he getting 1-2 Range, he is outdamaging Mia! And so, in conclusion, IF Mia is better in Offense than Tauroneo, it isn't by much. Tauroneo vs Mia is even more in Tauroneo's favor when you first get Tauroneo, as well. I'm just being nice and doing them both at 20/20. And then, Tauroneo crushs Mia in Durability. You kinda just mentioned it, and burshed it off. Let me explain WHY you did this: 20/20 Tauroneo: 51.6 HP. 26.6 DEF. 16.4 RES. 20/20 Mia: 41.5 HP. 15.6 DEF. 12.2 RES. Mia does have avoid on Tauroneo, but Tauroneo has more WTA control, and a solid 11 DEF and 4 RES on her. So, it is understandable why you wouldn't want to bring up that Tauroneo is insanely more durable than Mia. So, at the end of my first post: Tauroneo and Mia are close in offense. Tauroneo blows Mia away in Defense. The combination of these two make Tauroneo a much better unit than Mia. |
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| +Hollie | May 21 2007, 02:44 PM Post #4 |
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Resident Brit
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Hmm? You really need to make sure?
Lol, Steel Sword. But before I address that, I need to just go over supports real quick. Mia, in her perfect universe, would be getting A Rhys B Ilyana. Rhys supports Titania, Rolf, Kieran and Ulki as well as Mia. Ulki isn’t great. Other laguz are much better. Kieran doesn’t want Rhys supporting him when he could have the same bonuses from Marcia, who is also better. Rolf has better supporters. The bonuses from Titania are really bad at A; 1 Atk, 1 Def and 15 Hit (10 Hit at B). Mia at A gives 3 Atk and 15 Hit. 2 Atk > 1 Def when Rhys has trashy durability but okay-ish offence. He nets 4 Atk, 1 Def and 25 Hit (which he could have better things instead, but he ain’t getting them) from Mia A Titania B rather than 3 Atk, 1 Def and 25 Hit from the other way around. He wants A Mia. Ilyana, apart from Mia, supports Zihark, Gatrie, Mordecai and Lucia. Gatrie wants A Ilyana because his other supports run away from him and Ilyana doesn’t mind the full Def. Zihark is after Muarim and Brom before Ilyana, even though Ilyana comes waay earlier than Muarim. Lucia I’m not even bothering to go into. Mordecai, then, is her only competition. Mordecai gives 1 more Def at B, and is quicker, so it looks like Ilyana. Largo isn’t complaining about the support with Mia. He’s supporting her, Tauro, Muarim or Devdan. The latter is out, which leaves the other three. Muarim is a better character than Tauro any day, but Muarim wants Zihark A, which leaves Largo open for a B from . . . Mia or Tauro. From Mia (B): 1 Atk, 10 Hit, 5 Evd. From Tauro (B): 1 Def, 5 Hit, 10 Evd. Tauro gives more defensive boosts, but Largo has a wtfh4x HP safety net, so defence isn’t absolutely necessary. Mia gives more Atk and some Evd still. Largo does also use axes, which are fairly inaccurate. The bonuses from Mia aren’t bad, help him a little defensively and make his offence rape a little more. Tauro just makes his defences a bit better. Both are the same speed, but Tauro might lag behind the rest of your party due to lower Mov. Also, Mia and Tauro have completely different jobs. If you need offence in one area, and defence in another, then Largo and Tauro are going to be split up . . . whereas Largo and Mia wouldn’t be. Largo takes A Mia. With that in mind, let’s move onto Tauro’s supports . . . namely, the support with Rolf not covered above. Rolf can have a combination of Mist, Marcia and Shinon before Tauro arrives. Shinon isn’t brilliant, but Mist and Marcia are both good and Marcia’a other options are not brilliant. She’ll be taking B Kieran, but A Rolf wouldn’t go amiss. Mist is probably taking A Jill, but B Rolf wouldn’t be so bad either. The support is pretty quick. And then, if Rolf doesn’t get one of those supports, there’s Shinon, who also gives 5% Crt when adjacent. Not much, but quite useful. But I’ll be nice and give Tauro B Rolf. 1 Def, 5 Hit and 10 Evd. So, now we return back to the matter of Mia’s endgame Atk. Note that the Paladin sample cited in the first post was from the very last chapter (I have used it in virtually every debate . . .), so we’ll obviously use 20/20 stats. Decimal points ignored, not rounded. Mia - 20/20 - Offence Killing Edge A Rhys, B Largo Atk: 20 Str + 9 Mt + 3 from Rhys + 1 from Largo = 33 Hit: 62 base + 75 from KE + 15 from Rhys + 10 from Largo = 162 Crt: 13 base + 30 from KE + 15 SM bonus = 58 AS: 30 (she has a 95% chance of capping. It’s gonna be 30) Why were you giving Mia a Steel Sword lategame? Fair comparison? Moar like bias. Why were you not giving Mia supports? Fair comparison? . . . Do I really need to finish that? Well, at any rate, Mia has wtfh4x hit. She’s not missing. Her Crt is good and should be around 50 for most units she faces. Her Atk is not brilliant, but she’ll be doing at least 26 damage in a round if we take that 20 Def I gave as an example, with a 50% chance of a critical. Assuming she criticals at least once, that means she one-rounds quite well, and even if she doesn’t, next phase the enemy’s probably going to target her anyway, so she can two-round instead. There are high Def units out there as well, but Mia can use Longswords, Armourslayers, Laguzslayers, or even the Runesword really late in the game. Tauro has access to this weaponry too, but he can’t kill with it as good (well, possible exception of Generals) due to not doubling as effectively.
Well, since I’m giving Mia a Killing Edge, I guess Tauro can have his favourite weapon as well. Tauroneo - 20/20 - Offence Silver Lance B Rolf Atk: 25 Str + 15 Mt = 40 Hit: 49 base + 75 from SL + 5 from Rolf = 129 Crt: 10 base AS: 14 Firstly: I don’t care what you say about Tauro’s Spd being more likely to hit 14 than 15 (sounds hypocritical, I know). Chances of having 14 or less Spd = 42. Chances of having 15 = 32. Not to mention that he’s only 2% more likely to hit 15. We may as well go by the averages. Tauro has 7 more Mt that Mia. That is his only win. He’ll be doubling hardly anything - against everything else, Mia wins hands down. She’s more likely to one round than Tauro is.
No, I don’t say. Paladins with 20 Def.
Actually, when you get the stats right and give them the weapons they’d be using endgame, Mia does 26 damage per round assuming she does not ciritical. Tauro does 20 damage per round, but his chance of criticalling would be something like 2. Mia is one-rounding more often. So, Mia can not critical, and still kill in two rounds, or she can critical and one round. Either way she has a higher damage output than Tauro.
You suppose? Dude, when you factor in Crt, Mia is miles ahead. She’s one rounding when Tauro is not, or doing more damage anyway.
Mia has the Runesword, at least lategame, because her Mag is actually pretty h4x for a melee unit. Granted Tauro has more range though.
Right. Spear has 3 less Mt than a Silver Lance, so Tauro now does 3 less damage, meaning that he kills the enemy in 3 rounds rather than 2. Mia still kills in one or two. Mia wins. He might do damage versus ranged enemies who attack him on their phase, but who cares? They’re few and far between. If he’s got a ranged weapon and Mia’s anywhere nearby, they’ll be attacking her instead, in exactly they same way that on your phase you have Soren attack the paladin with the silver blade instead of the short axe.
So, in conclusion, Mia beats out Tauro in offence thanks to actual speed, and it’s by a lot when you consider Crt and other things. Tauro vs Mia is more in his favour when you first get him, but Mia still doubles way more and has a lot more critical, plus an actual support. I’m being nice and not mentioning the whole, huge, massive, part of the game where you have Mia but not Tauro . . . yet.
Well, we’ll see.
osnap
Mia - 20/20 - Defence Killing Edge A Rhys, B Largo HP: 41 Def: 15 Res: 12 CEvd: 20 (so close to 21 T_T) Evd: 80 base (!) + 5 from Largo = 85 Tauroneo - 20/20 - Defence Silver Lance B Rolf HP: 51 Def: 27 Res: 17 CEvd: 14 Evd: 42 base + 10 from Rolf = 52
And you’re saying that an avoid lead of 33 isn’t solid? Even when WTA’s in his favour or when Mia has WTD, the difference is still 23. When it comes to avoid, these are pretty big numbers, you know? She has 6 Cevd on him too, though that’s not substantial. Tauro does have huge defence leads. 10 HP, 12 Def, 5 Res . . . maybe you could, possibly, even say that he crushes Mia in defence. However, I’m not worried about that. Unless you can successfully prove that 95/85/75 avoid (depending on WT), 41 HP, 15 and 12 Res is not enough to keep Mia alive without worry, then as far as I’m concerned this debate is already over.
Insanely more durable? Huh, whatever. Mia still wins, I’m just going to wait until my next post to
First sentence is right. Second sentence is wrong. Third sentence is based off wrong calculations . . . I guess they’d give you the mark in a maths test. So, Sent, what’s your reply? |
Known as Haar on Brand of Flame. Bitch. Formerly Margaret Thatcher, Aleksandr | |
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| Sentenal | May 23 2007, 10:56 PM Post #5 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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In my last post, I gave a comparision between Mia with a Steel Sword, and Tauroneo with a Steel Lance. And gave neither character supports. So, apparently, when I give them an even playing field, it is bias. I'm going to address supports now.
First: I think you might not know this, but Mia can't have Rhys A, Largo A, and Ilyana B. You gave two paragraphs talking about he getting Rhys A, and Ilyana B. Then you give another paragraph where Largo wants to get Mia A? What the hell? Regardless of how messed up your entire support arguement is, you eventually came down to Rhys A and Largo B, and screwed Tauroneo with just Rolf B. Now what the hell are you doing using OTHER low tiers other than Mia and Tauroneo? This is a Low Tier debate. We are already making things hard on ourselves, by assuming the use of both Tauroneo and Mia.... Because otherwise we wouldn't have a debate. But now you want to assume the use of THREE other low tier units? Get Rolf, Largo, and Rhys the hell off my team. Now, with that in mind, you understand why I didn't give ether supports. Because... neither of them get supports realistically! Giving either of these units supports is like giving Niime Yodel and Sophia supports. Not gonna happen. So, there goes your support bonuses. Mia has to beat the German Juggernaut by her own merits now. Now, you also claimed bias from me giving both units a Steel Weapon. And, you thought it would be fair to give Mia a Killing Edge, and Tauroneo a Silver Lance. Anyway, to see how they are comparing with this more "fair" comparision, lets see how they do it in a realistic setting (as in, they don't get their nonexistant supports). Mia is doing 20+9=29 Atk, and against a 20 DEF enemy, that comes down to 9. And then, against the Lance Users of the endgame, WTD makes that come down to 8 per hit. Tauroneo is doing 25+15=40 Atk, and against 20 DEF enemies, that is 20 damage. Woah, I'm winning... Sorta. You still do have that Crit. So, now lets take this to the next step. You cited 40 HP as well. Well, Tauroneo kills these bastards in two hits. So he needs two rounds. Mia needs 5 hits, not counting Crit, to kill. So 3 rounds. But, Mia does have that crit, so she is Criting half the time. So, Mia hits for 8 damage, then Crits for 24. Then hits for 8 damage again, and the kill. So, they are killing at exactly the same speed (2 rounds), and Tauroneo requires less weapon uses! Hell, Tauroneo's 2HKO is guaranteed, while Mia requires critting!
Not only does Tauroneo average 15 SPD, but you are kinda confused. Tauroneo has a 42% chance of having 14 SPD or lower, true. But, if you look a bit above that, where it says "Chance of having X Spd at a given level", and look for level twenty, he has a 32% for 15, 19% for 16, 6% for 17, and 1% for 18. Time for some advanced Math. Take some notes. 32+19+6+1=58. So 58% chance of having 15 SPD or higher. 58>42. L2Math. Now, I'm gonna jump into defense. First, I'll take away both party's Supports, because they don't exist. Mia - 20/20 - Defence Killing Edge HP: 42 Def: 16 Res: 12 CEvd: 21 Evd: 75 (this was too high. 27x2+21=75, not 80) Tauroneo - 20/20 - Defence Silver Lance HP: 52 (you got this wrong, btw. bias?) Def: 26 Res: 16 CEvd: 15 (you got this wrong too, btw. bias?) Evd: 45 base (off by 3 points here. bad bad hollie) First, please... For the love of god, pay attention in math class. Seriously. I don't know if these were mistakes, or you falsifying stats to make Mia look better. And, know that with stats, you don't always round down. Supports do that, because the game just does. But these are calculations done by people, determining the most likely stat they will have on the level. If somone has 20.9 LUK, means they will most likely have 21 on that level. So, we have 10 points in DEF, and 4 in RES, against 30 in avoid. Seriously, why even bother? Tauroneo's DEF is beating the living crap out of Mia. And against lategame Lance users, that falls to only 20 more avoid than Tauroneo. Now, just a note on that. Tauroneo might as well have zero avoid, since he isn't dodging shit. 20-30 more avoid than shit is NOT good avoid. Thar, I think I just proved how great your avoid is. Now, lets just say something with like 35 Atk (just throwing a number out there. Silver Lance+20 STR) attacks Mia. Well, Mia is taking 20 damage from that, with WTD. She can take 2 more hits. That isn't good. Mia is kinda Fragile. Now, lets bring up another factor. What level will Mia be when Tauroneo joins? Mia has 15 chapters to grow, and starts at level 6. There are some factors here: One, Mia is low tier, and therefore sucks more than all the other units you could possibily use. So I don't want to give her my bonus EXP, that could be going to another, better unit. So, lets give her 1 level per chapter. That puts Mia at 20/1 when Tauroneo joins  Poor Mia.Actually, with this in mind, it makes pretty much all your previous 20/20 arguements about Mia pretty much BS, because 20/20 Mia doesn't exist, and Tauroneo only needs 6 levels to get 20/20. What we got here, with Base Tauroneo vs 20/1 Mia? Rapage. Tauroneo, base: HP: 48 STR: 22 MAG: 11 SKL: 18 SPD: 13 DEF: 22 RES: 14 LUK: 14 Mia, 20/1: HP: 32 STR: 13.6 MAG: 6.2 SKL: 18.3 SPD: 21.8 DEF: 11.8 RES: 7.5 LUK: 12.3 Ouch ouch. Mia wins SKL (who cares?) and SPD. So you double attack, and Tauroneo doesn't. Tauroneo with a Steel Lance: 22+10=32 Atk. Mia with Steel Sword, since I'm not going to baby her with a superior weapon: 14+8=22 Atk. Now, since this isn't endgame, lets assume the enemies have 17 DEF or something. Mia is doing 5 damage twice. Tauroneo is doing 15 damage once. 15>10. Mia's 15% SM crit isn't saving her. And Tauroneo crushs her even worse in DEF here. So, not only is Mia not good enough to deserve any Bonus EXP, but she is a piece of crap next to Tauroneo when you get him. Since I don't want to be a complete ass, I'll get Resolve out of my system, rather than "lol last post" you. Resolve is a fuck ton better than Vantage. Maybe if Mia would OHKO shit, it would be better for her. But don't get me wrong, the skill itself isn't bad. It just doesn't do a whole lot to help Mia. Resolve makes STR SKL SPD 1.5x when Tauroneo is 50% or less in HP. So, at 20/20, here is what Tauroneo's STR SKL and SPD look like with Resolve: STR: 38 SKL: 32 SPD: 23 WTF those pwn. 23 SPD is pretty decent, and that 38 STR... h4x. With a Silver Lance, Tauroneo has 53 Atk. That is 32 damage against those enemies you cited. Tauroneo is fucking raping. Hell, he is OHKOing some of the weaker enemies. Just give him a Laguz Lance, and show me a Laguz other than a Dragon who can take a hit from him. Tauroneo can use tons of weapons, and therefore with the right one, can OHKO nearly everything. So, with Resolve, Tauroneo's Offense > Mia's. Now, Hollie's turn. |
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| +Hollie | May 24 2007, 03:52 PM Post #6 |
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Resident Brit
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If you expect me to check this thing, then STFU, it's 15 pages long.
Uh, yeah, it is in this case. Tauro has higher Str than Mia, so giving him a weaker weapon doesn’t hurt his Atk as much as it would hurt hers. Now, this is sounding like a really bad explanation as to why it’s bias, but I struggle with wording things sometimes. Basically, the reason is something like you’re comparing them in a situation that wouldn’t happen (steel stuff endgame, lulz), with weapons that do more for Tauro than Mia . . . did that make sense?
Well, I meant Largo B, not A, and Ilyana probably doesn’t want to support Mia. MIA wants to support Ilyana, but not the other way around. Well, there is a chance that Mia gets the Ilyana support since by your logic of ‘we’ve got two low tiers already I don’t want any more’ Mordecai isn’t being used, Ilyana is then open to take B Mia. So we’ve got Mia with B Ilyana, and Tauro with no supports. I realise that the ‘in Mia’s perfect world’ part might’ve confused you a bit, and I should apologise for that.
Uh, the second paragraph was mainly about Mia not getting Ilyana B. Granted, I missed the bit off the end that said ‘Ilyana doesn’t want Mia’. But I would’ve thought the ‘Mordecai gives 1 more Def at B and is quicker’ would’ve clued you in. Largo A was a typo. I meant B. Note that the bonuses I was discussing were B support bonuses, a fact that you could’ve easily checked out, and also note that throughout the debate I’ve been using A Rhys B Largo.
Rhys is high low tier, and can actually have a place on your team thanks to healing, plus the game is pretty generous with character limits. Plus, his offence, whilst not amazing, isn’t atrocious either, and 3 Atk from Mia (1 from Titania as well, maybe) definitely helps him out a little. Largo is a great endgame unit, though granted he starts of rather unimpressive.
Wrryy? You could probably beat the game using entirely low tier units. Well, bar Ike, since you have to take him along. And maybe Oscar and Boyd in the early levels, but really, it sounds entirely doable to me.
No clue about the steel weapons still though. Still don’t understand about the supports either, but IF we’re going to play it like that, then Mia clearly wins supports, since Rhys is more usable than Largo and Rolf (as a healer with okay offence) and Ilyana is high/mid tier, and would actually take Mia B is Mordecai isn’t being used. Possibly even A Mia if you think like Reikken and think Gatrie is a horrible unit. But I’ll assume you don’t, since you’re debating a tank and all. The A isn’t much better than B anyway from what I recall.
See above. Using your logic, one of them doesn’t get supports realistically.
FE9 is a completely different game to FE6. If you’re using Niime, Yodel and/or Sophia, and someone who wouldn’t ordinarily get their support is suddenly with their partner, then are you going to not support them for the hell of it?
Tauro, GERMAN? Dear god fellow, what have you been smoking? He’s quite clearly British, eh, what?
What? Are you going to say that if you used these units you WOULDN’T give them those weapons endgame. Well, Mia might have a Silver Sword or something instead, but . . .
Well, uh . . . sorry chap, but with your logic, Mia is actually the only one of these two who gets a support, since Mordecai is low tier and all. And if we’re not using more than these two low tiers, then that leaves Ilyana without a B support, eh? A spot that Mia is quite happy to fill. So, we’ll try your comparison again with that factored in.
… Mia - 20/20 - Offence Killing Edge B Ilyana Atk: 20 Str + 9 from KE + 1 from Ilyana = 30 Hit: 62 base + 75 from KE + 10 from Ilyana = 147 Crt: 13 base + 30 from KE + 15 from class = 58 AS: 30 Tauroneo - 20/20 - Offence Silver Lance No supports Atk: 25 + 15 from SL = 40 Hit: 56 base + 75 from SL = 124 Crt: 10 base AS: 14 So Mia is still winning massively in Crt, AS and by a good amount in Hit. And enemies in this game actually have over 24 avoid, so the Hit lead actually makes a difference. Tauro has a lead of 10 in Mt. So using the enemy I gave, this would turn into: Mia dealing 20 damage a turn, without a critical. Or 40 damage a turn, if she criticals once. Or 60 damage a turn, if she criticals twice. Tauro dealing 20 damage a turn. Mia is still one-rounding more than Tauro. Mia still wins, just by less. And for the sake of a little variety, how about we get a few other comparisons against different enemies up here, hmm? Final Chapter Level 15 Swordmaster Killing Edge HP: 39 Atk: 26 Hit: 125 Crt: 57 AS: 25 Def: 12 Res: 8 Evd: 52 CEvd: 7 Mia hits for 36 damage per round, without a critical. With a critical, she OHKO’s (assuming the critical is the first strike, otherwise she just one rounds). Her chance of critting is . . . 51. Over half. Tauro hits for 29 damage per round, including WTA, obviously. Mia does more damage and one rounds more. Whichever way you look at it . . . Mia wins versus these guys. As for defensively, Mia only has a 45% chance of being hit in the first place, and this is against one of the more accurate enemies. And if she does get hit, it’s for 10 damage anyways. A vulnerary heals that. She survives, and possibly kills them before they get a chance to hit even on the enemy phase. Unless, for some idiotic reason, you removed Vantage. Final Chapter Level 15 Cat Claw HP: 50 Atk: 29 Hit: 127 Crt: 9 AS: 22 Def: 19 Res: 10 Evd: 43 CEvd: 4 Mia hits for 22 damage per round, without a critical. With one critical, she does 44 damage per round - so close to one-rounding - and with two she actually does one round. Chance of criticaling is 54. She’s likely to two-round this guy. Tauro hits for 21 damage per round, but in return gets doubled. Mia is still winning in offence even without the critical, not that she’s unlikely to critical. Final Chapter Level 15 Tiger Claw HP: 49 Atk: 33 Hit: 127 Crt: 9 AS: 20 Def: 23 Res: 10 Evd: 39 CEvd: 4 Mia hits for 14 damage per round without a critical. With one critical, she does 28 damage. With two, 42 damage. She’s either two or three rounding this guy. Tauro does 17 damage per round. Tauro probably draws this one, since Mia is two or three rounding depending on criticals, and Tauro three rounds no matter what. Well, assuming he hits. Final Chapter Level 15 Warrior Silver Axe HP: 52 Atk: 39 Hit: 102 Crt: 7 AS: 17 Def: 14 Res: 10 Evd: 36 CEvd: 7 Mia does 34 damage per round, without a critical. With one critical, she does 68 damage. So, she’s either one or two rounding this guy. Now, because Tauro isn’t stupid enough to pull out a lance against an axe user, we’ll say he switched to a silver sword, so he gets WTA as well. He effectively loses 1 Atk. So, he does 25 damage per round, which means he needs three rounds whereas Mia needs one or two. More likely one. Final Chapter Level 16 Paladin Brave Axe HP: 44 Atk: 29 Hit: 107 Crt: 7 AS: 20 Def: 20 Res: 14 Evd: 52 CEvd: 9 Mia does 20 damage per round without a critical. With one critical, she does 40 damage, meaning she’s probably two-rounding this guy. Tauro does (assuming he switched to silver sword again) 19 damage per round, meaning he’s three rounding. In return he gets attacked four times.  Only 4 damage each time, but still. If all hit that’s 16 damage. The guy only has a 17% chance of even touching Mia.So, we can quite safely say that in the endgame, Mia > Tauro in offence, and she’s quite survivable as well (since pretty much no enemy bar Ashnard can get over 50% hit on her, she’s fairly safe). Killing lots of stuff + probably surviving >> not killing lots of stuff + definitely surviving. Of course, this is only one chapter. At the time you recruit Tauroneo and for a while thereafter, he will probably be doing better. However, up until the point when you recruit Tauro, you had Mia with you doing her stuff and helping you out. So, from Chapter 7 to Chapter 21 (or three quarters of the way through that), you had Mia helping you out, and no sign of Tauro whatsoever. Then from, say, the last little bit of chapter 21 (which is basically the boss and like, five other units at that point, so it barely even counts), to Chapter 25 or so, you have Tauro doing better, and Mia still helping you out and doing good. Then from there until the endgame, Mia is doing better. Being more helpful for 19 chapters >>> Being more helpful for 4 chapters. And by ‘being more helpful’ I don’t mean being more helpful than the rest of your team. It’s doubtful even that Tauro is more helpful than Mia for those few chapters, since he doesn’t have good offence ever and most units can defend a position on the frontlines, which is what Tauro specialises in. How is Mia helpful? In her joining chapter, she can help by hacking at the enemies to lower their HP. At this point, a lot of your units still aren’t quite one-rounding, so Mia can help by attacking first. Then in chapter 8, she can take over for Ike for a turn on the west side if he needs healing, instead of potentially putting Rhys in danger. And on the next chapter, if you let her tackle the axe users on the sand, WTA and the avoid boost will mean she’s rarely getting hit and getting good exp to boot. And, well, it carries on from there. I can’t really be bothered to go and give reasons Mia’s helpful. She doesn’t shine in the early-game, and her offence at that point is quite poor, but once she starts gaining levels she gets much better, and then when she promotes and gets the SM Crt boost, her offence really starts to pull ahead.
Less weapon uses = less weapon exp, which is hardly a good thing, and it’s endgame so it’s not like weapon use matters anyway.
Try again. It’s 14.8, and since I’ve been skipping the decimals, that’d be 14 darlin’.
I did have something to counter that, since I knew right from the start that’s what you’d say, but . . . I forgot it.  I guess Tauro can have his 15 Spd, not that is makes any difference anyway. As I said, the difference between getting 14 Spd and 15 Spd is only 2%. Whereas Mia has over a 50% chance of capping Spd by 20/14, putting her even further ahead!
Osnap, your logic backfired. Since low tiers bar Tauro and Mia for debate purposes shouldn’t be fielded now, and Mordecai is low tier (I faced him in the first round, it’s a given), Mordecai is no longer being fielded. Which means Ilyana no longer gets a B support. But no fear! Guess who her backup for B support is . . . dundundun, Mia! If you’ve got something to say about her other support partners, tough, you didn’t say that earlier when you were under the impression I was also giving Mia B Ilyana, so I’m assuming you don’t see anything wrong with my reasoning. So yes, Mia gets a support, kthnx. Unless Ilyana isn’t worth using, or something dumb like that, since she’s a really great unit and with a Spd boosting band her Spd is actually really decent. Plus she starts with a D in the best magic already, less effort to level it up, yayz. So, in short, there’s no reason no to use her. Plus, she dance-crits. Can’t say no to that.
Mia - 20/20 - Defence Killing Edge B Ilyana HP: 41 (42 if you round up) Def: 16 (17 if you round up) Res: 13 CEvd: 20 (21 if you round up) Evd: 30 + 30 + 20 = 80 (81 if you round up Luk) Mia has 27 Skl (when rounded), not Spd. Her chance of capping Spd is 95%, so uh . . . we’ll go with that.
Tauroneo - 20/20 - Defence Silver Lance No supports HP: 51 (52 if you round up) Def: 25 (26 if you round up) Res: 16 CEvd: 14 (15 if you round up) Evd: 42 (45 if you round up Spd and Luk) Bias? Nah, not when I’ve ignored the decimals exactly the same way for Mia.
That’s right, if you’re me, you either ignore the decimal entirely or see if they have an insanely high chance of capping, or something like that. So, no, my maths wasn’t wrong, just difference to yours. How is it bias when I did the same thing for Mia and Tauro, with the one exception of Mia’s speed because her chance of capping that is really h4x.
I’m 14, not 4. I do know how probability works. I also know what the word ‘patronising’ means.
Well, let’s see, if we use your method of rounding stuff up, then it’s . . . 10 HP + 9 Def + 3 Res vs. 6 CEvd + 36 Evd Tauro is obviously winning, but the beauty of this is that it now doesn’t matter in the slightest, because despite setbacks my plan is pretty much going as planned. Now, let’s look at Mia’s defences on their own: Mia - 20/20 - Defence Killing Edge B Ilyana HP: 42 Def: 17 Res: 13 CEvd: 21 Evd: 81 Can you honestly tell me that Mia’s going to be dying with those defences? Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying they’re amazing or ultra h4x or anything, but they are pretty good. 81 Evd, with no boost from supports? That’s like, Clarine standard. It’s pretty insane. Even with WTD, that’s 71 Evd, and still a good chance of the enemy not hitting her. The dragon laguz have the highest hit in the final chapter (not counting Ashnard or Bryce) and the one I have a sample of has 133 Hit. It has a 52% chance of hitting Mia, and since Mia doesn’t damage it, she’s probably not going to be facing it in the first place. Oh, and the sniper I have a sample of has that chance of hitting as well. Even against the second highest hit, 129 on the sage when he’s using Thoron, the chance of hitting is 48. Then on the third highest, 127 on the cat and tiger laguz, it’s 46. And then on the fourth highest, the swordmaster, it’s 44. Then it jumps down to 33 vs a sword-using paladin, and then there’s actually quite a few axe users in this chapter, so Mia has no problems evading most attacks. Plus, the lance users in the chapter, her weakness, tend to have hit close to 100%, so even with the WT against her, Mia still has about the same chance of dodging as against the sword paladin. And this is all in game hit, not the real hit that would lower it even more. 52 = 53.92 48 = 48.08 46 = 42.32 44 = 36.98 33 = 21.78 So out of all the enemies in the chapter bar Ashnard and Bryce, the highest hit against her is just over 50. Mia, dying? Highly unlikely. And now, with that, I bring you back to what I said in my first post:
And this you didn’t counter at all. No, your first post was trying to prove that Mia was better than Tauro in offence by a little bit, and then that his larger victory in defence made up for that. You didn’t even disagree with offence being more needed than defence. So, I have to conclude that you don’t disagree, or at least that you can’t prove the opposite, which is really what matters in a debate. In that case, where does that leave us? It leaves us with Tauro beating Mia in defence, but with Mia being able to survive just fine, and with Mia having much better defence than Tauro.
And this is without including the large part of the game where Mia is there, and Tauroneo isn’t.
26, to be precise, but that’s not the point. The point is that Mia has more avoid, and that it keeps her safe.
Making your own avoid look worse to make mine look worse as well? interestingtheory But I have to say that Tauro’s Evd is actually quite good for a tank. For a lot of enemies, it should bring their avoid into the 60’s. Higher for some. Besides, from the samples given above on how good Mia’s avoid is (I should actually mention that biorhythm might affect those hits so they may not line up perfectly with what they’re supposed to), I can testify that either shit in this game is not the same as shit in other games, or that Mia’s avoid is not 20-30 more than shit.
My samples indicate there are actually only a couple of classes whose Atk reaches 35 or higher: Warriors, Generals, Wyvern Lords and the Dragon Laguz. Considering that the Warriors have something like a 10% chance of hitting her and that the WLs are on one side of the field and carry axes as well, that’s not to threatening. Hell, those are pretty much the only things that breach 30 Atk. The Tiger laguz come close to 35, though, and the Sage in the chapter has 31 with Bolting, but there are units with even lower Res than Mia, so that shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Even if she does get hit once or twice, well, that’s what healers are for, and since Ilyana should be close by to benefit from that support, problem is solved.
Eh, fine, whatever, though that really makes no sense when you think about it. If you’re using Mia anyway, then why the hell are you making it worse for yourself by having her promote really really late?
20/1? Are you sure? Taking 17-2 as the average promotion level and then promoting Mia in 17-4 since she’s apparently not getting bonus exp, that’s still 1 level in 18, 19, 20 and 21 (since by the time you get Tauro, there’s like, six units left including the boss, or something like that - in other words you’ve done most of the beating the chapter already), which puts her at 20/4. 1 level per chapter is kinda-sorta logical, but that’s assuming you don’t use any bonus exp on her ever, and also that she’ll only gain 1 level per chapter whereas in some she might gain two or more.
Well, if you have her at 20/1 at that point, sure, but the other units would only be 5 or so levels in front, plus 20/1 in pretty ridiculous anyway, so . . . If we kept going with the 1 level per chapter thing from 21, that’d be 7 more levels to 28, then 1 more during the final chapter, which would put Mia at 20/9 by your calculations. Obviously, she’s not gaining one level per chapter, then, since even with your level for her your other units would be maybe, 5 - 7 levels higher, maybe a bit more. So they’d be 20/17 or so, and unlikely to gain 3-4 levels in the last chapter. So yeah, there’s something wrong with that, then. Your other units should be something like, oh I dunno, 20/8 to 20/9 by that point? Higher? Since you seem to be sticking with the nonsensical idea that Mia should be lower than your other units to hold you back, she can be the lower end. 20/8?
Okay, let’s redo that without the ridiculous level. Tauroneo - Base Stats HP: 48 STR: 22 MAG: 11 SKL: 18 SPD: 13 DEF: 22 RES: 14 LUK: 14 Mia - 20/8 - Averages B Ilyana HP: 35.5 STR: 16.4 MAG: 8.3 SKL: 21.4 SPD: 26.0 DEF: 13.2 RES: 9.3 LUK: 15.5 Okay, so Tauro is still winning, but Mia’s wins are now Skl, Spd and Luk, and she’s pretty close in Mag. Rounded up this time, since that’s what you seem to prefer. Tauroneo - Base Level - Offence Steel Lance No supports Atk: 22 Str + 10 from SL = 32 Hit: 50 base + 70 from SL = 120 Crt: 9 base AS: 13 Mia - 20/8 - Offence Steel Sword B Ilyana Atk: 16 Str + 8 from SS + 1 from Ilyana = 25 Hit: 58 base + 75 from SS + 10 from Ilyana = 143 Crt: 10 base + 15 from class = 25 AS: 26 7 Atk vs. 23 Hit + 16 Crt + 13 AS Mia easily wins. Let’s take your 17 Def enemy (though since most generic endgame enemies only have 3 - 5 more than that, possibly 7 or so for Generals, I think it’s unlikely . . . especially when there are units with less that that). Mia does 8 damage twice, so 16 per round. Tauro still does 15 per round. Mia is more likely to Crt. Mia wins. Then, let’s take a few units with lower Def. One with 14, one with 10, and one with 6 (a Sage or something for variety). Vs. 14 Def: Mia does 22 damage per round, Tauro does 18 per round. Vs. 10 Def: Mia does 30 per round, Tauro does 22 per round. Vs. 6 Def: Mia does 38 per round, Tauro does 26 per round. So basically, the lower the Def, the more Mia wins by, even when you don’t include Crt. When it goes higher than 18 or so, which is really only Generals and laguz, Tauro wins unless Mia’s using a Killing Edge, in which case Crt usually claims her victory. So even 6 levels lower, Mia is better in offence than Tauro.
Oh believe me, having used good ole’ Tauro, I know what Resolve is like. I would’ve brought it up.
Actually, it does quite a lot to help Mia, because now the enemies that she can OHKO with a critical (okay, so that’s not a huge amount) are possibly killed before they even have a chance of hitting her. And then there’s the enemies that she didn’t one round last turn coming back to get her (yayz low Def is good for something) getting hit and killed (depending, but it’s quite likely) before they even have a chance of getting to her. So Vantage actually helps Mia out a lot.
Aye.
Now, here’s what they’ll really look like: STR: 37 SKL: 31 SPD: 22 This is because the game halves the stat, rounds down, and THEN adds it on top, rather than just x by 1.5 like Sent did, at least from what I recall. His method is still technically correct, so I’m not going to make a fuss about it or anything.
Indeed?
All of this is the truth. However, the problem with Resolve is it’s activation rate. HP has to be at 50% or lower. And yeah, in my debate against Hakado, I said it could activate about 25% of the time. I’ve since reconsidered. Tauro’s defence is worse than your other two tanks, but still better than quite a lot of your party. It’s only against enemies with brave weapons, or really high Atk, that Tauro actually takes any damage worth mentioning. Apart from the few lategame enemies with brave weapons, that’s basically Warriors and laguz, and the Warriors he can get WTA over to make them less likely to hit. So that’s the laguz, and then magicians do decent damage too. And then maybe the odd Warrior hits him. And this has to happen enough that he’s at 50%< health before the chapter’s over, and to be worthwhile there still has to be a decent amount of enemies left. It’s not happening in Chapter 21, that’s for sure, and in Chapter 22 there isn’t really enough fighting going on (it’s more yelling at priests to GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY, NOW). In Chapter 23 there’s a load of ranged shit coming at you that targets lower Def units, so Tauro’s probably out. Then in Chapter 24, you might have Resolve activate near the end, but the only ones who’d be left by then are the boss and his lackeys, so Tauro isn’t exactly doing a lot with it. Chapter 25 is full of boulders that roll at you and take 10 HP off no matter what, so by abusing these, Tauro can actually activate Resolve early enough to use it well. Then in Chapter 26 there’s just fuckloads of . . . everything and you’re probably going to use Tauro vs. the Swordmasters since he doesn’t take much damage. That’s that chapter out. Chapter 27 might have him activate Resolve if you leave him to the reinforcements who come on the second turn (maybe third, I’m not quite sure) from where your units started off, but then they’ll pretty much be the only ones he can use it against, so it’s not really helping. Then there’s Chapter 28, with loads of laguz, and most of them do some damage at least. Plus there’s them dragon bastids. So, he might make some use of it here. And then, we have it, the final chapter. There’s loads of enemies on this chapter and some of them deal more than like 1 or 2 damage, so Resolve could activate here and if it does, it ought to be useful. Just, like . . . keep Tauro away from Ashnard. So, whilst Vantage is active 100% of the time, Resolve activates very rarely, and even then there are like 3 situations where it’s useful. Vantage might not be useful an amazing amount of the time, but at least it’s useful for a lot of it. So, closing points: -Mia is more useful than Tauro overall -Tauro’s skill is better on its own, but Mia’s will be more useful -Tauro beats Mia in defence, but Mia can still survive perfectly well -Mia beats Tauro in offence -Because of this and reasons stated in the first post that you did not counter, she is more needed on your team -Mia can actually get supports from characters who are also useful (Rhys/Ilyana) -Tauro isn’t German -Mia is really hot <3 Well, that’s really all I can think of. Now go beat the crap out of this post. |
Known as Haar on Brand of Flame. Bitch. Formerly Margaret Thatcher, Aleksandr | |
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| Sentenal | May 26 2007, 05:45 PM Post #7 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Not... Really... Mia has less STR than Tauroneo. So, in order to somehow make it unbias, Mia has to get a better weapon to make up for it? Giving them the same calibur of weapon, and comparing them is perfectly fair in my book.
In your own words, pretty much all characters other than Rhys are durable. I don't nessisarly agree with that, but even in your book, Rhys is a fragile piece of glass, and therefore is a liability to have on your team. You use him till you get Mist, and drop him. Rhys' problem is damage dealt per hit. He has wtfmag, vs RES. His offensive problems come from lack of AS to double. Mia support isn't fixing that. Largo may be a decent endgame unit, but he is still much worse than all the other high tier people I would rather use endgame, and fielding him takes a slot away from a better character I could be using.
Yeah, I'm going to beat this game with Bastian and Sothe. Screw that. I want to get my Oscars, Kierans, and Jills out there, and kill everything they see. Killing things easily>Killing things not easily. I don't want to use any more low tiers than I have to.
Okay, Mia wins in nonexistant supports that she will hardly ever have.
I'm not gonna field Rolf, Largo, or Rhys, our support buddies. No supports for either of us. And plus, Ilyana supports Zihark as well, right? Zihark isn't low tier. He is a decent unit. Ilyana can support both Gatrie and Zihark. Oh noes, there goes our supports Ilyana doesn't like Mia.
If I'm using one bad unit who supports with other bad units, I'm not going to field those other bad units for the sake of supports. Screw that. I'll have my tank rescue the bad unit, and just deal.
  
I'd give Tauroneo a Killer Lance, Silver Lance, a Silver Blade, and a Laguz Lance. So he could deal with anything.
Zihark takes that B support from Ilyana, still no supports for Mia.
With Ilyana B, yes, Mia does have a slight, one round advantage on Tuaroneo. However, I addressed above that Ilyana still isn't supporting with Mia. Takes away 1 of her Atk. 1 Atk doesn't seem like much, BUT... That basically brings us back to how it was previously. Mia hitting for 9 damage. And with her Crit factored in, she needs two rounds to kill. Just like Tauroneo. Except that Mia REQUIRES a Crit. Tauroneo doesn't. But we have been here before. Offensively, either they are both tied, or when Mia doesn't Crit, Tauroneo wins.
On Speedy Swordmasters, Mia is better offensively. If she Crits, that is. If she doesn't, they are equal equal. If Resolve is active, Tauroneo is OHKOing. Win for Tauroneo there, who doesn't have to worry about Crits. Defensively, this isn't as good of a match up. 45%~ is basically being hit once every two hits. Mia is being hit for 10 damage, or 25%~ of her life. Not good, not good. Tauroneo is getting hit for... ZERO DAMAGE. I don't give a damn about how accurate these dudes are. Let a hundred of Swordmasters fight Tauroneo. Zero damage, and kills them in two rounds. Easy as pie. Mia might be able to kill them one round faster, depending on crit, but eventually, she is gonna take too much damage. Tauroneo never takes any :sentenal:. So, offensively, its like this: If Resolve is on, Tauroneo wins. If Mia doesn't Crit, they are equal. If Mia crits, Mia wins. Not really a big win for Mia at all, if you can even consider that a win.
Actually, since you have your Killing Edge, I have my Laguz Lance. Technically, due to crit you are still winning, but Bismark is killing in two rounds with this. Defensively, Mia is getting hit for 13 damage per hit. They have decent hit on her too. Tauroneo is taking 3 damage twice, so 6 damage. Defensively, Tauroneo is still winning. So, offensively, they still aren't too far apart, and Tauroneo still wins defensively. Good shit.
Tauroneo's accuracy is fine. Anyway, since you still have your Killer Edge, I have my Laguz Lance. Tauroneo is killing in two hits. Both are equal here. And Tauroneo doesn't rely on Crits, while Mia does, so that might give him a bit more of an edge. Defensively, they are hitting Mia for 17 damage (40% of her HP). They are hitting Tauroneo for 7 damage twice, so 14 damage. For a tank, that isn't nessisarly good... But, there is a blessing in disguse here. A.) Still better than Mia. B.) Just need two rounds with one of these guys for Resolve to turn on, and allow Tauroneo to start teabagging people. So, not ONLY does Tauroneo win defensively, but I also have a decent way to get Resolve on!
Silver... Blade... With my Silver Blade, killing in two rounds. Tie.
Actually, I'll take my Killer Lance against these dudes. Gives Tauroneo like 40 Crit. And these guys can hit Tauroneo. I want them too. This Paladin is Resolve-activation-incarnate. With one Crit, Tauroneo one rounds. Resolve, 1 or 2 rounds. Without either, 3 rounds. So pretty close in offense here, and I got a decent way to turn Resolve on.
Actually, those Swordmasters and Laguz have 50%~ on Mia. And Lance Paladins (rather than a cherry picked Brave Axe Paladin) likely have decent hit as well. I've show they are pretty equal in offense. I've shown Tauroneo is definately alot better in defense. Hell, when a Tiger is doing 40% of your HP in one hit, you know your character isn't really safe. And I also want to point out the selection of your "variety". It was more like "Lets pick out the units Mia does best against!" Where are the Wyverns? Or Generals? Things with High DEF that Mia gets raped against?
So, therefore, most of the time Tauroneo is there, he is outperforming Mia. THANK YOU. Bismark>Mia.
o_O What sort of logic is this? Mia is more useful than Tauroneo because you get her earlier? Mia is worthless the entire game! And if we are comparing the performance of BOTH characters, the only chapters we should even be considering are the ones they are both present on. Otherwise, Rhys would be top tier. Not Tauroneo's fault he comes when he comes.
Tauroneo's offense>Mia's when they first show up, due to Tauroneo having a SIGNIFICANT level lead. I've shown how close they are when Mia is super leveled and 20/20, equal with Tauroneo. And if Mia is alot lower than Tauroneo in level, the gap only widens in Tauroneo's favor. And Tauroneo's base DEF makes him one of the best walls in the game.
If Tauroneo's offense is "bad", and Mia is pretty close to him in offense, then she never pulls ahead of anyone in offense. How is Mia helpful? She attacks things, and therefore gains EXP. EXP that could be going to other, better units. Screw that, that isn't helpful! I'm using her every once in a while at best. She is never getting my bonus EXP. Never.
lol 14.8 means there is an 80% chance of having higher than 14 SPD. That translates to 15 darlin'.
14.8 means its more likely to have 15 SPD than 14. Just a bit of Fire Emblem Stat shit that might come in handy later.
Fixed. No support for Mia.
Tough? lol sorry, I can say whatever I want to in this post.
Nah, already got her support with someone else.
You round up if its .5 or more, but okay  And actually, -10 avoid Mia has on Tauroneo. Consider these situations: Against Lance users, Mia loses 10 avoid, due to WTD. Against Sword users, Tauroneo gains 10 avoid, due to WTA. Only against Axe users, does she actually have 36 on Tauroneo. Against Lance and Sword users, she actually has 26 or whatever.
Yes I can. Tigers have 45%~ hit on Mia. They do 40% of her HP in one hit. Swordmasters have 50%~ on her, and do 20% of her HP in one hit. Yes, I have serious issues with her Durability.
A Sage with Thoron? I'm just gonna pull a MAG number out of my ass, because I don't know how much MAG they would have, but lets give them 20 MAG, and Thoron. 30 Atk, aganist 12 RES. 28 damage per hit. That is 70% of her HP in one hit, with about a 50~ change to hit. And I wouldn't be suprised if they had more than 20 MAG, I'm just being nice. Mia's durability is seriously in question. I just needed to put it into context, so you can't brush it off.
As I've done all throughout this debate, I've compared how they fair offensively, as opposed to defensively. I have proven they are practically equal in offense. And with your help, I have shown that Mia is not nearly as durable as what you made her out to be. And, if we are going with our first post, I didn't have to prove Tauroneo is much better in defense. You even said so yourself. Equal offense+Significantly better defense=Better character. Win, Tauroneo.
And this is assuming that you are completely biased towards Mia, and give her equal level.
Not rly.
Tauroneo... Has... 15 SPD, and 15 LUK at 20/20. That is 45 avoid, then 10 from WTA. Tauroneo is hardly dodging shit. Against all those units you posted, most of them probably have 50% hit or more on him. And Mia only has 26~ more? Yeah, that isn't all that impressive, and I've shown you the punishment she takes because of it. Mia isn't durable, and her avoid isn't enough to save her. Tauroneo's DEF and RES don't need avoid, however. He is durable without dodging.
Because Mia, and ONLY Mia, is being attacked once per turn. I mean, its not like there are a good number of enemies out there, attacking Mia and all your other units at once. You can't rely on healers all the time. Especially when Mia gets punished so harshly for taking a hit when she does.
Less EXP for Mia, more EXP for high tier characters. High Tier characters at higher levels>>>>>>Mia at higher levels. Simple as that. I don't want to invest in a bad unit nearly as much as I want to on my good ones. I'm using her, at least. She is getting a level per chapter.
Yes. I am sure. 1 level per chapter is fair, and unbiased, to a subpar character I'm being forced to use anyway. I'm being nice with 1 level a chapter. Screw giving Mia any bonus EXP. I'm gonna pour that shit into Jill and Oscar. 20/1 please.
No. I'm not getting held back, by making my better units better. One 20/10 Jill is better than two 20/10 Mias. I am giving Mia enough to not get teabagged too hard, and then doing the smart thing and investing it in my good units. 20/1. And yes, final chapters, she can be level 20/9. Your stats with her at 20/20 was just bias, assuming I would want to invest in her anyway.
What? You didn't prove to me why I should keep her on a comparable level with the rest of my party! She won't be! And since you didn't prove why I should waste anymore than the bare minimum of EXP on Mia, I see no reason why to even address your points here, since they are based on an incorrect and bias premise. And therefore, you have failed to address my arguements about Base Tauroneo vs expected level Mia. And just because I don't want to let you get away with anything around there, but around the time you get Tauroneo, is about the time when you get to face alot of Wyverns as well. So unit DEF is only going up, not down. As DEF goes up, Mia's offense goes down. And your stats still have that non-existant Ilyana B support. So, even with that bias, non-existant Mia, Tauroneo is doing better in offense (14 damage per round for Mia, against 15 for Tauroneo).
You just said yourself that Mia hardly OHKOs anything. So how does it actually help out alot? If she OHKOed alot of things, it would be a great skill for her. But she doesn't. It just changes the order the RNs are used, and thats it. It is a decent skill though. Just not great for her.
So my stats are technically correct, but not correct?
I'm giving Tauroneo WTD against Axes, to improve the chances of Tauroneo getting hit. After all, gotta make the most of units that can damage him, right? I've shown that your Brave Axe Paladin, Tigers, and hell, even Warriors (well, I actually didn't show that, because I figured people would get the picture) will help out enough to bring Resolve out. Afterall, he only needs to lose like 25 HP to bring out Resolve.
You aren't creative enough. Anyway, so what I'm getting here, is this: Tauroneo's DEF is so amazing, he will hardly ever get to use his skill. Now, to that I say this: Since Tauroneo's DEF is so amazing, just wait till chapter 21... Get Tauroneo... And then have him solo the rest of the game. Afterall, according to you, Tauroneo has trouble losing 50% of his life. So losing 100% of it is out of the question. Easy, and hilarious. Now, obviously you can't really do that, nor would I want to. I'd rather do that with Jill. But seriously, if Tauroneo's DEF is THAT good, where he will be struggling to lose 50% of his HP, just send him towards a crowd of enemies, and they will die first. Otherwise, I'll send Tauroneo against things like Tigers, and Axe users, and get them to turn on Resolve, and then beat the living shit out of things. This is win-win for me. Good shit. Thank you for proving how defensively amazing Tauroneo is.
Resolve activates commonly if you are creative enough. And is a hell of alot better than Vantage. Closing points: -Tauroneo is German. -Tauroneo forged German by Blood and Iron. -Tauroneo has AMAZING WTF DEFENSE, and blows Mia out of the water in DEF. -Offensively, I have shown that they will both be taking about the same amount of time to kill enemies (2 rounds), thus making them equal in offense. -Mia has significant durability issues. -Tauroneo has a MUCH better skill, that pushes Tauroneo far above Mia. Oh yeah, Mia needs some tits to be hot. Like, FE10 Mia is hot. She has tits. |
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3:11 PM Nov 8
