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| Topic Started: May 29 2007, 09:53 AM (10,055 Views) | |
| C475_1337 | Nov 8 2007, 12:35 AM Post #601 |
One serious d00d
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Regardless of how Shade works, it's clear enough that Having Shade > Not Having Shade. |
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| Sentenal | Nov 8 2007, 12:58 AM Post #602 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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If we are talking skills, I'd say Adept is a better skill than Shade. Whenever Soren activates adept (other than early game, I guess), odds are, that enemy is gonna die. So skill wise, they cancel out. And btw, I didn't baby Soren to get him level 7ish by base time. Normal use. Stand behind Gatrie, attack. Pray they don't have javelins or something. Things like that. I understand he isn't a good unit early game, far from it. I just used him in ways that would help me, and he ended up there. |
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| smash fanatic | Nov 8 2007, 03:55 AM Post #603 |
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If I decide to use a unit, regardless of how bad they are, they will be getting their fair share of kills. And if we're talking about Soren vs someone, of course he's getting kills. Fine, I'll baby Soren, and you can dump bexp onto Ilyana. That sounds a lot better than keeping them both at a low level.
Your logic goes "the worst unit gets the least amount of kills". So, on the opposite end of the spectrum, it would be "the best unit gets the most amount of kills". Obviously, no one feeds any unit all the kills on the map, and no one is going to give a member on their team less than their share of kills.
wtf? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
The average is closer to 1.3-1.5 levels per chapter, actually (that's after all units get their BEXP, so without, probably 1.1-1.3). Soren's underlevelled, so he'd get 1.4-1.6 levels per chapter (after bexp).
Of course. I'm just skeptical about keeping Ilyana in range of too many enemies even with Shade. |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Nov 8 2007, 07:00 AM Post #604 |
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Everything you do can be viewed in terms of advantages and disadvantages. Of course Soren _will_ get kills, but are getting those kills going to be more of an advantage for him or a disadvantage? Obviously it's the latter.
Sounds better than comparing them at different levels like you were trying to do.
Actually, he's right. The best unit gets the most kills, and the worst units gets the least kills, if you play the game naturally. If Titania attacks one enemy every turn and Soren attacks one enemy every turn, Titania's going to end up getting more kills than Soren is. So, when you play, you'll probably give them the same amount of kills. But it's disadvantageous to Soren to do so, so he's gained just about nothing at all, which is why it's pointless to compare an 9/0 or something Soren to 6/0 Ilyana. It's either: 5-6/0 Soren + neutral OR 8/0 Soren + disadvantage |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| Sentenal | Nov 8 2007, 11:29 AM Post #605 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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The only way Soren wouldn't benifit from getting more kills is if he had low growths, which he doesn't. Using Titania to run around earlygame chapters teabagging things is all fine and good, and to an extend needed, but Soren would get more out of a kill than her, since Titania hardly gains EXP. |
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| Yzarc | Nov 8 2007, 12:02 PM Post #606 |
Coxian
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Uh, I actually agree that Soren doesn't get the same amount of kills as everyone else. But I don't think that makes Ilyana better. 20/1 Comparisons Ilyana HP: 30.3 Str: 6.5 Mag: 16 Skl: 18.3 Spd: 15.2 Def: 7.1 Res: 19 Lck: 12.3 Soren HP: 30.6 Str: 2.9 Mag: 18.3 Skl: 20.2 Spd: 17.6 Def: 6.8 Res: 19.3 Lck: 10.7 Soren does 2.3 more damage with 2.4 more AS. He has Adept and higher skill, for more Crit/Adept. Ilyana has .3 more Defense, but Soren has .3 more HP for equality. By this point Soren will have a B with Ike. +15 Evasion > Shade, especially since it allows Soren to counterattack on Enemy Phase. Ilyana's supports are all really iffy. Gatrie, Mia, Mordecai and Lucia won't be used every playthrough. (Specifically Gatrie, Mia and Lucia who kinda suck a lot). You're also more or less locked to only using one laguz. Zihark wants Brom and Muarim, for way better bonuses. Anyway, Ilyana, if she's in play, might get a support with Mordecai, since he wants her. 1 Attack, 2 Defense, 5% Hit at B. Soren's still way better, since he has obvious offense, while she has arguable defense. |
  
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Nov 8 2007, 03:41 PM Post #607 |
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At the moment I'm not arguing Ilyana vs. Soren, though if I feel like it I might get to it later for the hell of it (personally I don't care, as I think they both fail). Do note, however, that in your comparison Soren has 2.4 more AS but 4 less Str.
It doesn't matter what a unit gets EXPwise. This kind of ideology would remove Titania from her top position altogether. The thing is that it's difficult for Soren to get those kills. When you play, he gets them, but if it's difficult for him to do so, it's a disadvantage. |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| Sentenal | Nov 8 2007, 03:47 PM Post #608 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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It isn't difficult to stick him behind someone else and help pile on damage. Soren plays a minor offense support role earlygame, but you can get him to level 7ish without babying. But the fact that Soren does get more EXP from a kill, means he sucks for less time than someone else, yes? Is that not incentive enough to give him his fair share? Much of Titania's earlygame awesomeness, IMO, comes from her ability to destroy outstanding threats to your party, allowing them to fight with more safety. Her getting less EXP doesn't change that, and I wouldn't drop her spot because of it. |
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| Oath | Nov 8 2007, 04:04 PM Post #609 |
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The first sentence was countering your statement that Titania gets the most kills. The second sentence is saying that Soren doesn't deserve the exp that he gets since its taking away from better units. Sorry 'bout the wording. |
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| AdamNW | Nov 8 2007, 04:25 PM Post #610 |
Needs moar Sety
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...>_> If someone like Soren isn't getting a kill because a better unit can have it, then Titania gets all the kills and everyone goes to hell. |
 Formerly: Sety | |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Nov 8 2007, 06:49 PM Post #611 |
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Er? Only if you make it so that he does the killing blow every time. If that's not babying, I don't know what is.
No, what are you talking about? That makes no sense whatsoever. Growths have nothing to do with this. At all. Look, someone with a 50% growth does have an advantage over someone with a 20% growth--they gain .3 more in that stat every level up. That's the advantage. There's no separate advantage. Same with being underlevelled/overlevelled. There's no separate advantage to be counted, and it certainly doesn't factor into kills. What do factor, however, are the stats at the level they're making those kills. Those directly affect killing ability.
No, of course not, but your ideology would suggest that that would indeed be true.
Here I agree with Soren. It doesn't matter that a better unit could have had the kill at all. This, of course, has nothing at all to do with Soren's getting a kill being a bad thing due to it being difficult for him to get that kill in the first place. Do you disagree with this statement? |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| AdamNW | Nov 8 2007, 09:03 PM Post #612 |
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Needs moar Sety
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Soren can be that unit that goes around finishing off units with low health, but no, I don't disagree Solide. |
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Formerly: Sety | |
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| Yzarc | Nov 8 2007, 10:52 PM Post #613 |
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Coxian
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Doesn't matter because Soren can still hold Thunder without AS loss. |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Nov 8 2007, 11:31 PM Post #614 |
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I'm not disputing the fact that Soren has an overall AS lead; I'm just pointing out that when heavier weapons come into play, the lead lessens. |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| Sentenal | Nov 9 2007, 01:11 AM Post #615 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Uhhhh, who the hell said this was a separate advantage? The fact that Person A gets more from getting kills than Person B (as in, gets grows better than Person  , is a reason to give the Person B the kill. :richie:
No it wouldn't. |
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