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| Sentenal vs Yzarc | |
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| Topic Started: May 29 2007, 11:09 PM (345 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | May 29 2007, 11:09 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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This should be fun. |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Sentenal | Jun 1 2007, 06:33 PM Post #2 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Tauroneo vs Largo, two polar opposites. One is a tank, the other is a heavy hitter. I'll start out with Largo's advantage: Offense. Largo has wtf STR. Base of 21, grows at 70%, ends up at 29.4. He also has decent SKL and SPD. So, he will have decent accuracy, and doubles consistantly. Perhaps one of the hardest hitters in the game. Now, Tauroneo's advantage: Defense. Tauroneo has a base of 22 DEF, and it ends up being 25.6. He also has a very good RES base of 14, when ends up being 16.4. Tauroneo is one of the best tanks in the game. He also has a level lead on your other units when they join. I think we can agree on those basics. Largo comes on chapter 25, at level --/7. You have about 4 chapters remaining. Largo grows on 25, 26, 27, 28, and then bam, last chapter. Unless you pour BEXP into Largo, or give him tons and tons of kills, Largo won't be hitting 20/20 by the final chapter. He probably ends up like, 20/15 or something. Tauroneo comes late as well, but he is kinda different. He comes at level 14, on chapter 21. Tauroneo can easily get level 20/20. So, Final Chapter comparisions: Tauroneo, 20/20: HP: 51.6 STR: 25.3 MAG: 11.3 SKL: 21 SPD: 14.8 DEF: 25.6 RES: 16.4 LUK: 14.9 Largo, 20/15: HP: 58.4 STR: 26.6 MAG: 4.4 SKL: 23.7 SPD: 23.6 DEF: 12 RES: 4.6 LUK: 14.7 Largo has decent a decent win in HP, and a large win in SPD. Tauroneo has a large win in MAG, DEF, and RES. Largo's HP win starts to vanish fast, due to his low DEF and RES. His SPD helps him be good offensively, yet it isn't enough to make him a dodge tank. Tauroneo, tanks, and hits pretty hard, but doesn't double. And, I don't think you can simply brush off the MAG victory here, not when Tauroneo has 11.3 MAG. He is a good unit to have the Sonic Sword, or the Flame Lance. Now, blow for blow, Largo is hitting harder, and he is doubling, so he is better on offense. But, Largo is also taking hits, and taking them hard. For example, consider the Swordmasters on the final chapter. Final Chapter Level 15 Swordmaster Killing Edge HP: 39 Atk: 26 Hit: 125 Crt: 57 AS: 25 Def: 12 Res: 8 Evd: 52 CEvd: 7 Due to WTA over Largo, the swordmaster has 27 Atk on him, which translates to 15 damage per hit. Also, it has a crit of 42 on Largo. So, when it crits (roughy every other attack), it does 45 damage in one hit. Yeah, even with all that HP Largo has, he is almost dead. These things get WTD against Tauroneo, and do no damage. Tauroneo can sit there and fight swordmasters for years, no worries. Tauroneo can kill it in two rounds. Same with Largo. So, they are about equal offensively, and Tauroneo has a HUGE WTF DEFENSIVE win here. Final Chapter Level 15 Cat Claw HP: 50 Atk: 29 Hit: 127 Crt: 9 AS: 22 Def: 19 Res: 10 Evd: 43 CEvd: 4 What about other units? The Cats have 22 AS, so we have another unit that Largo won't double. They hit for 17 damage per hit. Good thing these guys don't Crit like those sword masters, otherwise Largo would be in for a long day. They do 3.4 damage to Tauroneo, twice. So comes to be 6.8 damage. Still a ton better than taking 17 damage in one hit. And since neither unit doubles, they require about the same amount of time to kill it. I don't have exact Sage samples, but I do know there are sages with Thoron in the final chapter. Just guessing on a Mag value, lets give them like, 22 Mag, then 10 from the spell book. 32 Atk, hitting Largo for 27 damage. Ouch. Tauroneo takes 16 damage, which is alot better. I could go on, with melee things that hit even harder, like Tigers (20 AS, hits Largo for 21 damage), but I think we get the picture. In ALL instances, Tauroneo is fairing much better defensively than Largo. In some instances (those where Largo doubles), Largo is better offensively. However, when he doesn't, they are practically equal in offensive. However, Tauroneo has another advantage; His skill. Resolve. Resolve activates when Tauroneo is at 50% or less HP. Now, even though Tauroneo does have a massive defensive advantage, just give him WTD for a few rounds against Warriors, or against a Paladin with a Brave Axe, and you got Resolve. At 20/20, Resolve change's Tauroneo's STR/SKL/SPD to the following: STR: 37.95 SKL: 31.5 SPD: 22.2 So, when Resolve activates, Tauroneo is hitting for MORE blow for blow, he is MORE accurate, and his SPD is only a few points away from Largo. Better in nearly ALL aspects. Plus, Tauroneo is German. And that means he is angry. Largo isn't angry. He smiles. Largo no smash. |
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| Yzarc | Jun 3 2007, 04:17 PM Post #3 |
Coxian
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Where to begin? I guess I'll just take every point that you made and counter it, to a degree of near perfection. It's not that I'm particularly good or anything, it's just that you make this really easy. Specifically due to things like these:
But that's near the end of your post and, granted, you didn't mean that in all circumstances. I just kinda had to point out that you did JUST try to say that Tauroneo and Largo are even CLOSE to being equal offensively. It gave me a good laugh is all.
Would you like a list of harder hitters? I'll give you one, it'll take me two seconds, watch. 1. Tibarn 2. Giffca However, you can only get one of the above, so really, only one unit that you can get has better Strength than Largo (Or Magic than Largo has strength. And I'd go so far as to say that Largo has better offense than most/all mages if only for the fact that Axes > Magic in Mt, so even though there is a Defense and Resistance gap, Largo is hitting harder than mages, though it depends on the unit.)
Indeed he does have good defensive parameters. However. One of the best tanks in the game? Are you including dodge tanks? Oscar and Ike are both easily better tanks, as are Gatrie and Brom. And Brom can even use the Knight Ward. Now, how many tanks do you need? I'm gonna lean on the "few" side because the purpose of a tank is not to kill, it's to take hits. But how useful is that in winning chapters? It's arguable. I think it goes without saying which side of THIS argument each of us will be on.
Why are you not putting any BEXP into him? He's the best offensive hitter in the game with over the top strength, the highest damage weapons, really good speed and pretty god damn ridiculous crit. And, sir, you hugely underestimate this man's defensive parameters. If you save up a few hundred Bonus Exp for him, he'll easily be one of your most useful units on the field for the final chapter. Also. Tauroneo cannot "easily" get to level 20 by the final chapter. It's possible, yeah, I guess. But how many kills is he getting in the time he's fielded? Not many due to the fact that he never doubles. He only gets kills when you purposely give him kills. That's sorta like babying him. But why are you babying Tauroneo? He's not a baby. He's a big, German guy, right? With heavy armor? Umm, someone seriously needs to put down the titty and pick up a bottle. The point is, Tauroneo is not getting kills because he has shitty offense. Not ONLY does he have shitty offense, but he can't even keep up with the rest of your god damn team. He's a slow as bitch who sucks balls (I added that last part out of assumption, I don't know if he actually does suck balls, but I can't imagine much else for him to be doing to slow him down so much. What a faggot.) How is he gonna get kills if all the enemies are way up ahead with the people with NORMAL movement speeds? Wow, what a fantastic tank, he can't even stay on the front lines. That all being said, it's fair to say that if you're using a unit throughout the game, he or she will end up at 20/20. Otherwise you wouldn't use said unit. So while it will take some Bonus Experience to get Largo to that level, I promise you it will be well worth it. It's not like you won't have to give any to Tauroneo to get him to 20.
I bolded the corrections. And now. Largo destroys Tauroneo by 8.4 HP. You're right in saying that, assuming everything hits and there is no such thing as "Evasion" that HP lead does not balance out Taruoneo's Defense and Resistance lead. In a world of RNs of 0, Tauroneo is by far more durable than Largo. Offensively. I have to say, props for managing to only mention two of the very few units that Largo cannot double on the final chapter. I mean, I GUESS I could go down the line of every single other unit that you didn't mention (the ones that Largo fucking destroys Tauroneo offensively in) but I feel that would be a waste of time. Instead, I'll just do this. Largo can kill Paladins in one round. Largo can kill Generals in one round with the Hammer. Largo can kill all Laguz except Dragons with the Laguz Axe (including cats, who he can double) Largo can kill Snipers in one round Largo can kill Sages in one round Largo can kill Priests in one round Largo can kill Halberdiers in one round Which leaves Dragons, Swordmasters and Wyvern Lords who Largo cannot kill in one round. Unless he lands a critical, which he very well may with 27% Crit without Killer Axe. What happens if he's near Calill? That gets bumped up to 37% Crit, which is sorta reliable, and give him a Killer Axe? 67% Crit? He's gonna land a crit in ONE of the hits. And he doubles Dragons and Wyvern Lords, so he can kill those assholes in one turn as well if he's holding a Killer Axe. Against Swordmasters, if he lands a critical, OHKO, of course, landing that hit is a problem so it's generally best to keep Largo away from the very few Swordmasters there are at the end. Granted, a few of those units need special weapons. Generals, Laguz need Hammer and Laguz Axe respectively and Dragons and Wyvern Lords need a Killer Axe. I'm not saying Largo will have a Silver, Killer, Laguz Axe and a Hammer, but I am saying that, if you want, Largo could pretty easily kill any unit in the game if you get him to 20/20. Worth it? I think so. What can Tauroneo do? He can survive well. Okay? So? How is that helping you at all? You know a BETTER way for him to survive? Keep him on the bench and send in someone who can survive just as well, but who can also do some damage.
Sages have around 18 Magic. That's 28 Attack, hitting Largo for 23 damage and Tauroneo for 12. Dunno how much that helps my case, really, but I will add this, now that it's time to bash Largo's durability. Largo supports with Muarim (who is a very good unit, apparently, and who really WANTS a Largo support) and Tauroneo (who enjoys penis in the butt, but he wants a Largo support as well. Either way, Largo will easily get the Muarim support, giving him a 15% bonus to Evasion. Now, if you decide to be dumb and field Tauroneo then he'll get another 10% to evasion. That's a 25% Evasion boost to already good evasion. Allow me to explain 25.8 Spd x2 = 51.6 +15.9 Luck = 67.5 +25 Supports = 92.5 92.5% Evasion. Hmm. I'm sorry did you just say Largo WASN'T a dodge tank? Well, I'll grant, he's certainly no dodge "tank" but god damn it is he sexy. He's got 60 HP and pretty ridiculous evasion. If you'll allow me to explain how ridiculous it is... Ike is, by definition, a dodge tank. (He's actually just a badass durability man in general, with good defense, good res, good HP and over the top evasion.) He has 116.3% Evasion. Largo has 92.5%. Ike beats Largo by 23.8% Evasion. That's actually kind of a lot. But Ike has the best evasion in the game (I think, correct me if I'm wrong. Tanith might be ahead but I'm pretty sure Ike beats Lucia.) We can't expect Largo to have the best offense AND the best durability in the game. That would just be too ri-god damn-diculous. Let's look back at that Sage with the Thoron. He has 15 skill and 5 luck. That's 33 Accuracy + 85 which comes out to 118% Accuracy. That's a 25.5% chance for a Sage to hit Largo with a Thoron. Bolting? 5.5% chance. Meteor? 10% chance. Largo is relatively safe against magic users, contrary to what you believe. Huh, but wait. Evasion is also useful against physical attackers. Kinda funny. Largo wins in durability in HP and Evasion, both of which are equally effective against physical and magical attackers. Tauroneo only wins, however, in Defense and Res, of which only help in particular situations. Who wins now? Well, what about Critical Evasion? Largoy, by 1%. Okay. So, I grant that that 1% is effectively nothing. It's just kinda funny that Largo DOES, in fact, win in more categories of durability than Tauroneo. That's all. Am I saying he's MORE durable? Nah. I'm just saying that Largo, under no circumstance (Unless you throw him headfirst into a pool of Swordmasters) will die. So, congratulations, Tauroneo. You can survive things. So can Largo. So can a lot of people. What's the difference? Largo actually helps you win. Tauroneo JUST takes damage.
Congrats. You have fun going out of your way to get Tauroneo to 50% HP, I'll be busy killing things with Largo. Who is more useful if you have to purposely hurt Tauroneo to make him any good? Mmm. Tauroneo is hitting more blow-for-blow and is more accurate, but still does not compare to Largo's offensive power. Largo doubles way more often and criticals way more often. So...Yeah, again. Congrats.
I guess I'm lost as to why being German is good. Does Tauroneo have sex? No. Does Largo have sex? Yes. With Calill? Sometimes, but he's not limited to that ho. Have you seen this guy's pecs? |
  
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3:40 PM Nov 27
