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| Yzarc vs Reikken; Grand Finals: 1st Match | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 8 2007, 03:36 PM (833 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Jun 8 2007, 03:36 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Decide your units and such, and have fun. |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Yzarc | Jun 9 2007, 10:46 PM Post #2 |
Coxian
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I'm pretty sure it's in everyone's best interest to make the first few posts of this debate pretty short. Otherwise, it might get ridiculous. So everyone knows, I am debating for Largo. Reikken is gay. I mean, he's debating for gay. I mean, Devdan. Sorry. My first question, Reikken, is why? Why Devdan? What is so god damn special about Devdan? Of all the people you could have chosen, you picked one of the ones without ANYTHING that is particularly good. I say that, of course, without you telling me, so I really do look forward to that. Devdan comes slightly higher leveled than your common unit. He comes at level 4 promoted and, about this time, every single one of your units should be promoted or at least level 19. So, let's compare a level 20/1 Nephenee to a level 4 Devdan. Devdan wins HP by 2.8. Magic by 1.4 Res by 2 Luck by 6.7 Nephenee wins Strength by 1.2 Skill by 4.1 Speed by 7 Defense by 4.5 So who wins? Nephenee does more damage, is more accurate and will double attack far more often. She is clearly better offensively. Devdan does not win a single thing offensively except magic, but there are no Magic Lances yet, so that doesn't matter at all. Nephenee's Defense lead easily outweighs Devdan's HP and Res lead. Which leaves Devdan's Luck lead and Nephenee's evasion lead. Well, luck gives Devdan about half as much evasion as speed gives Nephenee, but luck also protects against critical evasion. So here, it might be difficult to say who is definitely more durable. However, offense goes to Nephenee, hands down. Note that she is three levels lower. So, we just compared Devdan to Nephenee, who isn't that good in her own rights. I used her since they were the same class. I could compare him to Oscar who beats Devdan in everything except Magic (useless), Res and luck. Except at this point, Oscar has a B with Ike and a C with Kieran (or a B, I don't remember exactly) Point being, Oscar is far more durable than Devdan, can move further and is way better offensively. Now, you may be saying to yourself "You're full of shit, Yzarc. Of course Devdan is not better than Oscar or Nephenee, he is a Bottom Tier for a reason. And where the hell do you get off, you sick son of a bitch, bringing up Devdan's HORRIBLE starting stats compared to the rest of your team when you're defending Largo, someone who is pretty damn underleveled, if I do say so myself." And you would be right. However, we've basically confirmed right now that using Devdan as soon as you get him is not particularly good. He's not good when you get him and he's not good in the endgame unless you give him the Knight Ward, in which case he's STILL not good, he's just a little less suck. At no point in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance, is Devdan "good." He is always bottom tier. Onto Largo. Perhaps one of the best offensive fighters in the game? Or, in fact, THE best? That's a difficult decision. The point here is this: Largo has a purpose on the battlefield. He rapes. Not only is he GOOD offensively but he is actually the BEST offensively in most situations. But of course, Largo is sooo not durable. OH NO!! Largo can't survive on the battlefield. He only has 60 HP! Oh wait, 60 HP is fucking good. "Not when he doesn't have that much Defense." What if he rarely takes hits? What if he has an evasion percentage of 92.5 when fully supported to two units who WANT to support him? I would venture to guess, sir, that Largo is pretty durable. So, in the endgame, Largo is beyond durable enough and has the best offense in the game, next to your Laguz King. Why is he bottom tier again? Largo is, perhaps, your best warrior. He can kill everything and he can't be killed. Your turn. |
  
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| Reikken | Jun 12 2007, 05:38 PM Post #3 |
 
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Hmm-hmmm. Quite.
Whaaat, already promoted? More like level 16-17, if that. I mean, srsly. Let's look at Nephenee, and, say...Kieran. They both join before ch 11. Then there's 12, 13, 14, 15, and part of 16. That's 5 chapters and a part of another to level up in. And ch 15 you probably shouldn't be killing stuff since the bexp for doing that > the combat exp, and Kieran is worthless there anyway, so 4-5 chapters for him, 5 for Nephenee. Kieran joins at level 12, Nephenee joins at level 7. Kieran is at a normal level, so he gets a normal 4 lvs every 3 chapters. 1.33 levels per chapter. Nephenee is underleveled, so 1.75 per chapter for her. Though that drops off as she catches up.... So... Kieran reaches level 18 by the time Devdan is recruited. Nephenee reaches lv 15. Already promoted? I'm not seeing that at all. Nephenee would have had to be getting 14 levels in about 5 chapters. Wut? Now, re-doing the comparison at normal levels... Devdan wins hp by 9.6 str by 2.8 mag by 3.4 skl by 0.6 res by 5 lck by 8 Nephenee wins spd by 2.4 def by 0.8 So who's really winning? Devdan, easily. Devdan also has enough str to use Steel Lances with no AS loss, while if Nephenee uses one, she loses her spd lead. Offensively, against enemies that they both can double, Devdan does 6 more damage. Against enemies that neither can double, Devdan does 3 more damage. Against enemies that only Nephenee can double, he does 6 more damage per hit since she has to be using an Iron Lance, which helps offset her getting another hit. The enemy needs 11 or less def for Nephenee to be doing more damage. How many enemies can Nephenee double that Devdan can't? Well, comparing Devdan's spd to other characters, lv 18 Boyd also has 13 spd. Oscar and Kieran have about 14. The spd lead isn't that huge, and Devdan's spd is fairly average, so there's not too much that Nephenee doubles and Devdan doesn't. So Devdan wins offense. Defensively, Devdan has a clear win. 10 hp, 5 res, 8-3 avo, and 8 crit avo >>> 1 def. So Devdan is pretty good when he joins.
On to Largo indeed. Now, here's where you're mistaken. How could he be low tier if he had the best offense? The answer is that he doesn't have the best offense. He joins on level 7 when your other characters should be about level 13 or so, or level 18-19 if we're using the levels you used when comparing Devdan. Largo joins with 21 base atk, 20 AS, and axes. Level 13 Oscar has 21 base atk, 22 AS, and axes and lances. Largo even gets beaten by Oscar in offense (lances vs swords >> axes vs swords), and Oscar's offense is not his strong point. Best offense? Hardly. Now let's look at characters who are near the top in offense. lv 13 Kieran has 23 str + 1 from B Marcia = 24 base atk, and he also has both axes and lances and 22 AS. When is he passing that? He even has to catch up first. Boyd- 27 str + 4 from supports = 31 base atk, and he has 20-21 AS and axes. 31 base atk. 10 more than Largo. Largo's never touching that. What about vs someone that's not top tier? Say...Nephenee. lv 11 Nephenee = 19 str + 2 from supports = 21 base atk, and she has 25 AS. But lances have 1 les atk than axes. But they also don't have hit problem even when they have WTD, like axes do against swords. So Largo joins with as much offense as Nephenee? His offense isn't looking so h4x. Now, of course, he's going to level faster than others since he's underleveled, and he has a 70% str growth, but there's also only 5 chapters left in the game, so he doesn't have much time to grow, so a good portion of that is going to be spent with his growths having not taken much effect yet.
Largo does not join with 60 hp or supports for that 92 avo. Largo joins with 52 hp, 52 avo, 10 def, and 3 res. 52 hp is good, 52 avo is below average, 10 def is very bad, and 3 res is abysmal. Largo starts off with pretty horrible durability. He does have supports coming, but he has to get them first and go without them until they come. But this is Largo vs Devdan. How do they compare to each other? Well, Largo joins well below average with average offense and way below average defense, and Devdan joins even a bit above average, so just on that, Devdan is looking better. First, what about Devdan's supports? He has Nephenee and Tormod. Nephenee's other supports are with Brom and Calill. Brom would rather go Boyd and Zihark, and Boyd and Zihark want that, too. That leaves Devdan enough room for a B. For Tormod, Sothe isn't getting used, and Reyson gives the same bonuses but starts later, so it's worse for Tormod, and Reyson himself gets nothing out of it, so a support with Devdan is clearly better. That leaves Calill. With only one other support, it's just a competition for the A since Devdan is at least getting a B. Calill is probably going A Nephenee, and Tormod's Calill support comes later, and the difference between A Calill/B Devdan and B Calill/A Devdan is only 2 avoid vs 2 hit, so going A Devdan is just as good if not better anyway. A Tormod and B Nephenee finishes well before Largo joins. By the time Largo joins, Devdan's level lead will have shrunk, so he'll be maybe lv 15-16. 21 str + 4 from supports = 25 base atk and 20-21 AS with the Knight Ward. O snap, that's better than Largo. 44-45 hp, 59 avo, 16 def, 13 res, 20 critavo vs Largo's 52 hp, 52 avo, 10 def, and 3 res, 12 critavo 6 def and 10 res makes Devdan much more durable than Largo. So when Largo joins, Devdan is also better than him. Largo will be growing faster, but he doesn't have that much time to, and he has to catch up before he can surpass, and he hardly even has time to do that. So Devdan is better. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Yzarc | Jun 14 2007, 01:07 AM Post #4 |
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Coxian
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For this debate post, I am going to do something rather uncommon. I am going to be my opponent.
h4x Huh. When I did that (said h4x when it was extremely unnecessary), I felt a chill go down my spine. Not a good one. It made me feel kinda gay. Oh well, that's not enough to keep me from pretending to be you.
Not if you're using h4x units and you are a h4x player and actually use bonus exp. Also, you seem to mention that the chapter where you don't want combat exp doesn't count for Nephenee and Kieran, because they won't get combat exp on that chapter. Well, I mean, they do get bonus exp. By this chapter, the only units that won't be very highly leveled are un-h4x or underleveled units like Tormod, or non-offense based units like Makalov. Level 20 is a safe assumption for the units you use most and have had for a while. Kieran should be slightly behind Oscar at this point, but Oscar will, and pretty easily, be level 20.
Actually...Oh wait, I'm Reikken, I forgot. Okay, what would Reikken say? 87484 4848 999584635 483726263 Damn, I feel SOOO gay. Okay, I can't do this anymore. Sorry, the whole swap-persona thing isn't gonna work out. Maybe some other time when I feel like taking a penis in the butt. Right now isn't that time. Okay, so now for a response that people with logic can understand: You're full of shit. With bonus experience running amok, it shouldn't be difficult to keep your more commonly used units at a similar level, and that level should be 18, 19, 20, around there. Promoted is a stretch, but it's pretty easy for Soren, Oscar or Boyd to be promoted around there, or other highly offensive units, like Marcia. Oh, and Titania, but whatevz on her. So, instead of all this "1.33 levels per chapter" nonsense, I'm gonna point out bonus experience, and note logical things that even a noob player could do, like spreading out combat exp. Even if not, though, Oscar will easily be level 20. Easily. By the time you actually recruit Devdan, the battle's pretty much over, so he's useless. By the next chapter, Oscar will be promoted. And he'll destroy Devdan in everything that is important. Might I also add an "lol" at Devdan starting with a Heavy Spear and losing 4 speed?
And then your units promote and then he gets progressively less heterosexual. Every ounce of experience he gets in the half a chapter he's good in is effectively useless because you're retarded if you use Devdan later on in the game.
Haha, you WOULD want to get onto Largo. But, probably in a gay way, unlike me. Faggot.
Depends on the team. Obviously high offense units will be much higher leveled than your average unit. Kieran and Boyd will be way the fuck up there, but Ike, Oscar and the like will probably be kinda low. But why am I arguing that? I'm not trying to say that Largo isn't underleveled. Quite the contrary. I'm trying to say that some experience sent his way will make him possibly one of the most valuable members of your final chapter team. And by that, I mean he can kill anything and everything in a single round, save swordmasters and dragons, given the right weapon. Given a crit, he could even kill swordmasters and dragons.
Oh, you're right, Largo does have bad offense, I should just give up now.
Unless you play the game planning on using Largo, in which case you save a little bit of bonus experience for him, give him some pretty easy kills for a chapter or so. In that case, he WILL touch that. He can hit level 20 by the end of the game. It's a possibility and it's entirely worth it. Let me explain by completely passing over your meaningless comparisons of his starting stats, which I have already granted are underpar. But first, I want to just look at this.
Stop overusing that word. It makes you have a smaller penis.
I'm confused as to what that means. Growths take effect as soon as you level up. For him, that's Speed and HP (thanks to starting exp) and after that everything shoots up pretty fast considering how quickly he is getting exp. And yeah, throw him some Bonus Exp. It's not like any of the earlier units need anymore. Give it to Largo and he'll be the best fighter on your team.
When he starts off, he is also level 7. He also doesn't join mid-chapter so you never, at any point, have to worry about him being apart from your team and you can give him some Bonus Experience right off the bat. By the end of the game, he'll be fucking baller and entirely worth it.
And of course by "go without them" you mean "stay with the rest of your team so he doesn't get surrounded and destroyed." It's easy to keep a character alive when you're focusing on that. The heart of this debate comes down to "is it worth babying Largo?" In order to determine that, we must first determine how good he is once he is the same level as the rest of your team. Final chapter, let's look at ending stats. Largo, 20 HP: 60 Strength: 29.4 (It will cap on fixed and high chance on random) Skill: 24 Speed: 25.8 (It'll hit 26 because of starting exp) Defense: 13.3 Res: 5.6 Luck: 15.9 Devdan, 20 HP: 48 Strength: 23.3 Skill: 21.4 Speed: 18.6 Defense: 18.2 Res: 14.0 Luck: 22.4 Largo wins HP: 12 Strength: 6.1 Skill: 2.6 Speed: 7.2 Devdan wins Defense: 4.9 Resistance: 8.4 Luck: 6.5 So, Offensively, it's no contest. Largo destroys Devdan in damage per hit, and number of hits. Devdan won't double much. Devdan has more accuracy, which is sort of significant. But 24 skill is pretty good and Largo can pretty easily land hits, especially given his supports. Defensively, Devdan wins Defense, Resistance and Luck. Needless to say, Devdan wins here. Largo just has 12 HP and a 7.9 Evasion lead. Difficult. Let's add supports. Devdan gets 3 Attack, 15% Hit from Tormod at A. He gets 1 Attack, 10% Hit and 5% Evasion from Nephenee at B. 4 Attack, 25% Hit and 5% Evasion in all. Largo gets 1 Defense, 7% Hit and 15% Evasion from Muarim or Tauroneo at A. He gets 1 Defense, 5% Hit and 10% Evasion from Muarim or Tauroneo at B. 2 Defense, 12% Hit and 25% Evasion. Devdan's gains effectively do nothing except make him able to hit harder. Still not as hard as Largo, but harder than he normally would. The accuracy gain is useless, since he can already land hits. He has probably one of the shittiest affinities for his purposes. Fire? Come on, offensive affinities are useful if you have enough attack speed to be an offensive person. Devdan cannot double and so that 4 extra damage is JUST 4 extra damage. Not 8. Largo's gains fill in his holes perfectly. His single flaw offensively is his low skill cap and use of axes. That gets fixed with a 12% boost to accuracy and his 15% critical hit rate. Defensively, that 25% evasion and 2 Defense/Res come in quite handy. He doesn't quite catch up to Devdan in Defense/Res gap, but he gets pretty close in Defense (though his res is still piss gay, I'll admit) but his evasion lead shoots through the roof. The only thing he cannot consistently dodge are swordmasters. So, keep him away from big groups of those. That's all you have to do for him to be ridiculously hardcore. With supports, Largo has 12 HP and 27% Evasion over Devdan's 2.9 Defense, 6.4 Res and 6.5% Critical Evasion. Which one's better? It's arguable, I'll grant. But this is coming from a unit who specializes on offense, not defense. I don't think I need to go into specifics in offense to make it clear that Largo fucking destroys Devdan. Largo has the single highest primary attack stat in the entire game (next to 2/3 of the Laguz Kings) and enough speed to double everything save Swordmasters and maybe a few Cats. Devdan...I doubt that he could one round a cow.
Just on joining times, yes, Devdan looks better. However, Devdan is never really outstanding or particularly useful. His speed when he first joins is pretty low (and really low with that Heavy Spear) so even then, he has shitty offense. His 35% Growth doesn't help him much there. He basically only gets worse and worse as time goes on. That wouldn't be so bad if he was SUPER fantastic when you first have him, or if he was at least still usable later on. However, neither of these are true. Largo joins underleveled, but gets progressively better and eventually becomes a primary fighter in your final battle.
You're pretty fucking liberal with that Knight Ward. At level 16, his speed is 17.2. You would need to have it on Devdan way too long for that to take use. The Knight Ward is too good an item to waste on Devdan just to make him suck less balls than he naturally does. I'd rather use it on Kieran to make sure he doubles as many things as possible, or Oscar, or Brom. Really, Devdan will consistently be my last choice for the Knight Ward, and he will for others as well. So, when it comes down to it, Largo's flaw does not lie in his lack of durability. His supports make him pretty damn durable. Nor does it lie in his offense, which is easily the best in the endgame. His single flaw lies in his joining time and level. In any other game, that would be a pretty big deal. However, in Path of Radiance, bonus experience is there specifically for cases like Largo's. So, while Largo is useless when he first joins, he becomes extremely useful in a few chapters. Devdan, however, is never useful. He is never powerful offensively. His durability is better than your common unit's when he first joins, but that hardly helps his case considering your common unit has a fine time surviving. Also, his usability wanes as time goes on to the point that every kill he got is a kill someone else could have gotten that could have actually used the experience for later on in the game. Assuming, of course, he gets kills. |
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| Reikken | Jun 14 2007, 03:11 AM Post #5 |
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No, dude. That was with bexp included. Only if you're using like 6 units are you going to have everyone promoted by now.
Eh..? Well...the important thing is you tried...
lol, trade
Notice I said "on to". That's completely different than what you said, "onto", which means on top of.
All your paladins need is to wear it when you give them bexp, and that'll be enough to have them cap spd. Devdan using it doesn't interfere with that at all. Anyway, basically, it looks like you're trying to say that while Largo does join pretty crappy, if you give him loads of bexp to catch up in level, and baby him while his durability still sucks before his supports kick in, he becomes good for the last few chapters. Well, let's examine that. 20/20 stats, Largo, plus full supports 29.4 atk, 25.8 AS, 75.9 hit, 27.0 crit ,,, 60.0 hp, 15.3 def, 7.6 res, 92.5 avo, 15.9 crit avo 20/20 stats, Devdan, plus full supports 27.3 atk, 23.4 AS, 90.2 hit, 10.7 crit ,,, 48.0 hp, 18.6 def, 14.0 res, 74.2 avo, 22.4 crit avo oh, and... Largo, 4.6 mag atk Devdan, 15.8 mag atk lol, Devdan is a beast with the Flame Lance. He has the highest atk in the game with it. Srsly. Anyway, on fixed, Largo caps str, and Devdan reaches 24 spd. And Devdan can equip the Knight Ward for +2 def/res if needed. Offensively, Largo is winning by 3 atk and 2 AS. Defensively, it's not so clear-cut. Largo has 12 hp and 18 avo vs Devdan't 3 def, 6-7 res, and 8-9 crit avo. Or 5 def and 8-9 res. Largo's lead is in avoid, which is based on luck. Enemies have pretty good hit, so his 92 avoid, while pretty good, isn't reliable. A few unlucky hits, and he's down, especially if he gets hit with a crit, like from a swordmaster, which he actually loses in avoid against. Devdan's AS is enough to be doubling everything except swordmasters, which Largo doesn't double either, so I'm not concerned about that. So 3 atk. Is Largo's 3 atk worth that bexp and babying? Well, considering that Devdan already has about as much atk as Kieran, so he's killing pretty much everything anyway, and then for the rare enemy that Devdan's atk is not high enough for, there's these nifty things called forged weapons, the answer is no, not at all, especially when Devdan is better staying alive. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Yzarc | Jun 16 2007, 04:29 PM Post #6 |
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Coxian
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Needless to say, I failed. I'm sorry.
Not everyone will be promoted. I'm gonna re-quote what was already in the quote that you already quoted.
And that is completely viable. Only four people were lower than 18 on my latest playthrough: Volke, Mist, Astrid and Makalov. And Astrid, given Paragon, can easily be higher. By the time you beat the level, Oscar, Kieran, Jill, Marcia, Boyd, Soren and a lot of other high-use units should be promoted or really fucking close to it. The second your units promote, Devdan becomes obsolete.
 Thanks. I don't know how you manage to be you ALL the time. I'd probably kill myself by the end of the day if I had to be you all day, every day. Good job, keep up the good work.
lol, waste a move on a unit that is better than Devdan. Or waste one of Devdan's turn trading. Either is dumb since by the time you get Devdan there are about 6 enemies left to beat. And having Devdan kill a single one of them is dumb.
So now you're just hiding the fact that you want to be on top of Largo. What a homophobic asshole. At least I recognize his superior manliness and admit, in a completely heterosexual fashion, that I would be honored to do him. Needless to say, I would have to pitch. His penis is WAAAY too big for my butthole. He might fit in yours though.
Um, not really. Kieran and Oscar need it for about 7 levels to cap speed, Titania needs it for a lot. Brom needs it for a LONG fucking time (and he still won't cap speed). So if I had to choose between Brom and Devdan, I choose Brom. Also, no way in hell am I giving my Paladins 6 or 7 levels in bonus exp when they have no problem getting more than enough combat exp. The only Cavaliers worth giving Bonus Experience to are Astrid and Makalov. Maybe Kieran, a few levels, when you first get him (he's a little underleveled) but even then, you don't have the Knight Ward, so you're EXACTLY wrong. Of all the people who can use the Knight Ward... -Titania -Oscar -Gatrie -Kieran -Brom -Nephenee -Astrid -Makalov -Devdan -Tauroneo -Geoffrey Devdan is one of the last people who should get it. Nephenee is probably THE last person to get it (since she caps speed anyway) but Devdan's near the end. Titania: Good throughout the game, but kind of underpar super late game. Knight Ward her for a lot of the game and she's good lategame as well. Oscar: Perfect, but doesn't cap speed without KW, and won't need Bonus Exp at any point in the game. Kieran: Same. Brom: Owns when he has the Knight Ward throughout the game. Specifically, he owns Devdan. And so on. Every single one of those units could use the Knight Ward at some point in the game. Why does Devdan get it the whole time? Even with it the WHOLE time, he's not very good, and that's with a huge boost to speed that you're taking from someone else. Basically, even with the KW, Devdan is one of your last choices for your team.
92% hit is pretty fucking reliable when you have 60 HP backing it up. Swordmasters are the only thing you have to keep him away from. He doesn't have to worry about anything else, really. Let's look at a Sage with the Thoron. He has 15 skill and 5 luck. That's 33 Accuracy + 85 which comes out to 118% Accuracy. That's a 25.5% chance for a Sage to hit Largo with a Thoron. Bolting? 5.5% chance. Meteor? 10% chance. Largo is relatively safe against magic users. Yes, while 25% is not invincible, it's pretty good. If there are four sages, all targeting Largo (improbable) then one will land a hit, dealing ~23 damage. If there are 8 sages, that's 46 damage. Basically, Largo won't die. I don't give a flying fuck if Devdan is "more" durable as long as Largo doesn't die. What if that sage attacks Devdan? 14 Resistance, 48 HP, 65% Evasion. That Sage has a 53% chance to hit Devdan for 14 damage. Two sages do 14 damage, four do 28 damage. Four sages did 23 damage to Largo. 8 Sages do 56 damage to Devdan, killing him, where Largo only takes 46 damage, and stays alive (since he has more HP). So, at this point, in the realization that Devdan will not have the Knight Ward on for the ENTIRE last half of the game, Largo is both more durable (obviously, against this particular unit. Swordmasters would be a different story, and I'll grant that, but I'll also note that most units in the game will take more hits to kill Largo than Devdan when you take into account Evasion.) and far more superior offensively. Before I end my post.
Devdan wouldn't get a forged weapon from me if he sucked my dick first. You can only make one per chapter and early on, you can't afford that shit. Later on, the good shit goes up to like 10 grand. No sir, Devdan is not godly enough for me to waste that much money on him. Suck. My. Balls. Thank you. |
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| Reikken | Jun 20 2007, 12:36 AM Post #7 |
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I dunno what you're doing, because my units always promote during ch 17 unless I'm using a tiny team. AND, others promoting earlier doesn't make the enemies any faster. Devdan is still doubling just fine.
If there's only 6 enemies left, either the chapter is over in only 1 turn, so it doesn't matter anyway, or, more likely, not everyone is in position to attack, so it wouldn't be wasting a turn.
Yeah, you do that. Have fun.
Them capping spd doesn't do anything for them. It's not enough to double swordmasters, and they're already doubling everything else. And when they end a chapter with liek 90 exp, give them the KW and that tiny amount of bexp needed to get them to the next level up, and you just took advantage of the Knight Ward at the cost of almost nothing in bexp. And Brom is indeed capping speed. On fixed mode, he caps it at 20/15, and he can miss 9 levels with it and still cap spd by 20/20. Anyway, pretending that Devdan doesn't get any levels with the Knight Ward is completely absurd. If you're not using Brom, Devdan is easily getting all his levels with the Knight Ward without anyone else needing to lose out on spd, and even if you are using Brom and getting him to cap spd, Devdan is still getting loads of levels with the Knight Ward.
What are you talking about? His offense is one of the best on your team due to his Kieran-level attack power and enough spd to double nearly everything, and he has good durability at the same time.
Swordmasters aren't the only things with good hit on him. Snipers don't get WTA, but they have high skill like Swordmasters, and they too have extra crit. Laguz weapons always have very high hit, and Laguz have pretty good skill. Any Paladin with a sword can get WTA on him.
That's not how things work at all. Whether the enemy hits or not is random. Each attack has a 1/4 chance to hit, not that it hits once every 4 times or some crap like that. 23 damage means Largo is dying in 3 hits. 3 unlucky hits, and he's gone. Largo staying alive relies on luck. For the stuff with something low like 5 hit, then yeah, he's safe from that since the chance of him being that unlucky enough times is too unlikely. And 15 skl + 5 lck = 35 hit, not 33. And then when it comes time to heal him, someone with Physic is only healing ~37 hp. And the last factor that makes avo not reliable is that this game has Biorhythm. Hitrates can vary by +/-10. Whenever Largo's on the bad end of that, he's screwed.
You have enough money to forge a maxed might weapon of the highest level available every single chapter. Granted, for the first two chapters, it has to be one of the cheaper ones since you haven't gotten that 20k yet. But then after that, you get loads of money. The only way you're running out is if you start adding crit to weapons, which is very expensive and pretty worthless, or if you forge maxed might Wind or Light tomes, which are extremely expensive, and that's a terrible idea anyway. Thunder is both stronger and less expensive, so forging anything else is pretty pointless, and there's only one light magic user in the game, and his problems are durability and AS, not magic. So anyway, Devdan: needs the Knight Ward so that he can have good spd Largo: needs lots of bonus exp so that he can start out good and actually reach 20/20 Devdan, when Largo joins (silver lance) 40.8 atk, 21.5 AS, 161.6 hit, 9.9 crit, 16.9 def, 13.3 res, 45.8 hp, 69.1 avo, 21.2 critavo Largo, after ~1800 bexp (silver axe) 42.6 atk, 23.6 AS, 131.8 hit, 26.6 crit, 12.0 def, 4.6 res, 58.4 hp, 61.6 avo, 14.4 critavo Largo has a small lead in atk, but Devdan can kill everything in two hits anyway. Largo has some crit, but...why in the world would he need a crit? More damage doesn't help when the enemy is already getting killed from the normal amount of damage. Largo is lacking in hit, but he won't be missing anything aside from sword users. Largo has a lead in AS, but Devdan can already double everything but swordmasters. Offensively, they both can kill everything but swordmasters. Well, actually, with a forged weapon, they can kill those in one hit. So offense isn't what separates them, since they're both h4x there. Defensively, they're not invincible or anything, so a win there actually matters, and Devdan comes out on top. All Largo has is hp, and Devdan wins everything else by quite a bit. Largo's durability is a bit shaky, so he has to stay back a bit more. Because of that, his offense can't be put to use as much, so Devdan wins. Later on, the only notable change is that Largo gets alot more avo, so then he's fine defensively against most things, though still vulnerable to high hit and/or crit things, the most notable being swordmasters. So really, this debaet is needing the Knight Ward and being better defensively VS needing tons of bexp Considering that using the Knight Ward doesn't interfere with anything at all unless you're using Brom or something, and even then, you can still easily get Devdan to have enough spd and Brom to cap, Devdan's is easily the better deal. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| +Ema Skye | Jun 20 2007, 12:49 AM Post #8 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Vote time. |
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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2:22 PM Nov 23
