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| HJ and Hakado vs Hollie and Nick | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 24 2007, 06:42 PM (318 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Jun 24 2007, 06:42 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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lol Americans are b7 from this round apparently |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| -HJ- | Jun 24 2007, 09:01 PM Post #2 |
I've failed to come up with something witty, so I hope you will enjoy this filler text instead.
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Garcia x Dozla vs Vanessa x Moulder? Wellz, one team is made of two god tier units, the other is made of a mid (or low, I forgot) tier unit, and a bottom tier unit... <3 Alright, soez, Moulder x Vanessa starts in chapter 2 and it's a 15+2 support. Dozla x Garcia will start in chapter 11.... well, not really. In Ghost Ship Dozla will join when there's little to no enemies left. In... whatever the Eirika-route chapter's called, it's pretty much the same thing. They only get, like, 1/4 of chapter 11. The support itself is 10+2. So, Moulder x Vanessa starts 9 chapters earlier and is faster. Win=Vanessa x Moulder Nao then, giving Vanessa and Moulder 8 turns per chapter (sometimes less, sometimes more, it evens out) they'll get their A during chapter 13. At this time, Dozla and Garcia will not even have a C yet. lol, so, our team is at it's best before your team is even formed... Giving Garcia x Dozla 8 turns per chapter would result in them having their A support in chapter.... never, but that won't work. So I'll be nice and say they have their A support in chapter 18. This game has 21 (23 if you count the gaiden and Demon King fight. These have no relevance to our teams, though) chapters. Vanessa and Moulder are owning your ''team'' at least 18 chapters out of 21.  Another win for Vanessa x MoulderFinally, before I'll stop ranting about the support, it is Anima x Anima. Full Atk, Def and Evd>you. Earlygame holds no real relevance, seeing as your team doesn't exist. Our team can both heal and fight, though, while yours doesn't even exist. Obviously a win for Vanessa x Moulder. Midgame our team is still better. It can heal well, and it can fight well. Dozla and Garcia can only double weighed down enemies and shamans in chapter 15. So, since they can't double much, our team obviously stomps them in offensive abilities. Moulder also attacks Res, ftw. Defensively yours have neither a support, Spd, or h4x Luck/Def. Moulder has high Spd while his Vanessa (and Gilliam, for that matter) support is granting him full Avo. Vanessa has high Spd and good Luck, while getting full Avo from Moulder and Gilliam/Lute. We own you in defense as well, it seems. Moving on to the lategame, both Garcia and Dozla will still have doubling issues. A Wight in chapter 20 will have 11 AS, and Wights aren't exactly speedy. Garcia hasn't doubled none of the human enemies (except knights and massively weighed down enemies) you've faced in the previous chapters. This is especially obvious since I was a fuckup and gave Garcia his 20/20 Spd when comparing him to that Wight. >_> He didn't double it at 20/20. lol, so he clearly isn't doubling humans at non-20/20, mirite? Dozla boasts an impressive 16 Spd at 20/20, though. So he did double that Wight. He'd also be doubling the Mogalls or whatever they're called. Floating eyes of doom. Garcia doubles these too, but they both have horrid Avo and Res. That wouldn't ever work out. Anyway, that was also a 20/20 comparasion (so yeah, same story as with Garcia, except worse. Since Dozla actually has a good Spd growth that helps him escape from his horrible base). So yeah, our team wins offense again. Doubling ftw. We're also still better defensively. Dual-Full Def supports for both our team members, and dual-full Evd supports. Complimented by the nice Spd/Spd and Luck of Moulder and Vanessa. Anyway, too lazy to make any moar. Your turn |
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| Nick | Jun 26 2007, 04:00 PM Post #3 |
Brit
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I'll do this before I forget about it.I'll take it the order of those two was respective. Yeah . . . problem is, Vanessa's a flyer, and Moulder is a healer. Why is that a problem? Because Moulder has to stop next to every wounded unit, whilst Vanessa is meant to be off using the versatility of flying. In even supporting the two, you rob Vanessa of a large amount of her utility. Roooooofl. Chapter 2 takes about 4 turns. Chapter 3 takes about 6 turns. Chapter 4 takes about 4 turns. Chapter 5 takes about 5 turns. Chapter 6 takes about 5 turns. Chapter 7 takes about 7 turns. Chapter 8 takes about 7 turns. Chapter 9 - either route - takes about 8 turns. Chapter 10 Eirika route takes about 7 turns, Ephraim route 10 turns (survive). Chapter 11 Eirika route takes about 6 turns, Ephraim route about 7 turns. Chapter 12 Eirika route takes about 7 turns, Ephraim route about 9 turns. Even assuming they took Ephraim's route and they were together for the WHOLE TIME OF EVERY CHAPTER, you would still be about 20 turns short. HJ, your idea is totally ridiculous, unless you are the worst tactician I've ever seen - these samples were taken from my game, and I'm not even very good at FE - what you said is totally invalid. Also, for aforementioned reasons, Moulder and Vanessa aren't going to be together for all that time. They'll be on like . . . a B at best during chapter 13. Garcia and Dozla's support starts much later, ya. However, they're easy as hell to keep together. They both fill very similar roles, and can obviously just fight alongside each other for maximum benefit. No utility at all lost there, which is more than can be said for Vanessa and Moulder. Point to Garcia/Dozla. Waitwait, you mean 'Vanessa x Moulder's support is faster' again, right? You're repeating yourself, but that's beside the point: just because Roy x Lilina will be there much quicker than, say, Dieck x Clarine, does that mean Roy and Lilina are 'owning' Dieck and Clarine? No. You're putting way too much importance on supports. . . . and I almost thought you wouldn't notice. What you have completely neglected to mention is that there are other supports for each character. I'll assume that this means you only want Moulder and Vanessa to be supporting, nobody else included. For my own team, I beg to differ. Garcia x Ross. Uberfast. It takes them 7 turns for a C. Oh snap, that means that you can have their C by the end of chapter 4. That's faster than Moulder and Vanessa by a long way. In WJC's words; 'By your own flawed logic, Garcia and Ross > your team'. As you pointed out, Garcia and Dozla will not be reaching an A. You then made some idiotic 'nice' claim to Garcia and Dozla that they could reach an A, but . . . it's just not happening. In trying to be nice, you made . . . a false point in our favour. Good going. Which is why Ross A Garcia B Dozla is what is going on with our earlygame fighter. As for Dozla, B Garcia, of course, and then . . . A L'Arachel. I can see a tantrum coming on from the anti-L'Arachel club, so plz, give me a reason not to use her. -Unlike a lot of healers, she doesn't get OHKO'd by the enemies in her joining situation. -She has excellent evasive stats and gets full defence from her A Dozla support. -She heals, which at the stage she arrives at is something only Moulder and Natasha (if you bothered levelling her) will be doing. -She has a horsie. -She's hot. -She's a bish <3 Go on, Hakado, tell me why I shouldn't. It can't be that hard. After all, L'Arachel is terrible, isn't she? For 3 marks, explain why she sucks. Until then, that'll do. Once again, I regret to say 'your logic is flawed', but it really is. What you say can basically be also used to say that Dorcas and Bartre > Erk and Pent because their support is there for half the game. As it is, Erk is there for like . . . almost the whole time Dorcas and Bartre are also there. What's more, he's better than the pair of them put together, so . . . your reasoning was, once again, incredibly faulted. Sorry. Garcia can fight, and is much less frail than Vanessa immediately owing to her poor HP and subsceptibility to axes that are common at that point. He has a support to boost his power, accuracy, critical and evasion before either Vanessa or Moulder.
Dozla and Garcia can have a C by the time they get to the enemies in Scorched Sand. Part of 11, and then 12, 13, 14, and part of 15 > 25 turns. Ross A Garcia C Dozla C L'Arachel. Garcia has +3 power, +20 critical, +17 hit, +20 avoid and +2 crit ev. Dozla has +1 power, +1 def/res, +5 hit, +10 critical, +7 avoid and +5 crit ev. No support? HJ, please. Think. Oh, and NOW you bring Gilliam and Lute into it. But not Ross? So you're being unreasonably biased as WELL as generally wrong? Gawd. Well, HJ, you've made a correct point for once. I can not deny, however much I want to, that you were indeed a fuckup. Anyhow, you're right, HJ, Garcia won't be doubling the Wight. Why not? Because he'll be OHKOing it instead. Sample melee wight: chapter 20 Eirika route. HP: 35 Spd: 11 Luk: 2 Def: 8 Res: 7 Equip: Steel Lance Steel Lance makes the Wight AS 7, so Garcia at level 20/09 (WJC's party average) would in fact be doubling him anyway. You won't be stinting your funds at this point: silver weapons are something people will be using. So, 20/09 Garcia, A Ross B Dozla, Silver Axe, vs Wight. 24 Str + 4 Support Str + 15 Mt +1 from WTA = 44mt. -8 from Wight's def = 36. Wight's HP = 35. OHKO'd even if he didn't DA it. To boot, he has 37 critical on this Wight (9 from skl + 5 from S axes + 25 from supports - 2 Luk). Nice comparison, HJ. Lulz. . . . Dozla could've doubled that Wight at level 8. . . . a supported Garcia (Warrior) at 20/09 has 15 Res and 62 Avd. That's hardly . . . horrid. Hell, his resistance is GOOD. Another ridiculous claim. You should've phrased that better, HJ, because I almost thought you were calling Mouder's pathetic 6 Luk at 20/09 'nice'. Thankfully, I think you were referring to Vanessa. Hakado, try and do it a little better, won't you? |
| jesus somebody get onto msn | |
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| Davidof | Jun 29 2007, 12:57 PM Post #4 |
Dutchie
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Let's indeed see if I can do better. *Cracks knuckles*
No, Limey, Moulder the Boulder and Vanessa>ur silly little axe-man team.
And in return, she gets the h4x bonusses of Anima x Anima. I fail to see the downside, really >_> Her utility also isnt that great till after she's grown a bit, in which time she can smex Moulder up. Everyone wins. And your supports, DESPITE these problems, is still slower, so meh, lol >_>
Uh-huh. Seems rather turn light, really. Add atleast one turn to those and it might be more realistic. Probably more for the longer chapters, but hey, lets be nice >_>
Wow, only a B. Compared to your nothing, with a slower support to boot? It might not be an A, but it's still all gud.
Possibly. So instead of one mediocre axeman, you have two. Wow. But, granted, your nubbies are easier to keep together. Hardly matters much though, since your support still wont reach an A >_>
Nigga please. Our support IS better, because Moulder the Boulder and Vanessa are fuxxing good units. But I'll get to stats later. Be patient now, Hollie, we're getting there <3
Naw, actually, we want either Gilliam for a love triangle, or Gilliam for Moulder's B, and Lute for Vanessa's B. AND Vanessa x Moulder. Srsly.
So, basically, your team shouldnt even exist. Well, that pretty much makes this debate pointless, now doesnt it? Why didnt you pick Garcia x Ross then, if that's a more likely pairing? >_>
....Lol >_> ANOTHER Axeman? Why in the world would you add Ross AND Garcia AND Dozla to your team?
Lol. L'Acharel >_> I mean, she joins as a level 3 Troubadour. That's the same level as Moulder joins. But much, much later.. Oh, and with healers, underlevelledness doesnt even get you more Exp. Poor, poor Wow, awesome. She cant attack for most of the time she's there. Not to mention how much later her supports start compared to her competition, Natasha and Moulder. She's useless, mboy. Or m'gel or something, since Hollie will be countering this.
Lol. Indeed. If you, youknow, bother to field both Ross AND Garcia. Ross, who is underlevelled and barely better then Garcia in the first place. Though, really, Moulder's healing utility>Any fighting lead Garcia might have, with or withour Ross. And then we have flyer utility from Vanessa. Yaye for utility for our team, whoo!
And yet, you havent given us even A SINGLE reason to use Ross, other then the support? Now, granted, neither have we for our B's, but being a h4x offensive mage with decent defences, and your tanky little friend (Lute and Garcia, respectively) means theyre more likely to be used then yet another primary Axeman. One that joins as a weak level 1 Trainee no less. If it wasnt for the Hatchet, training Ross would be rather... painfull. So prove to me how, even after I field Garcia AND Dozla as axemen, I want to add Ross' underlevelled little ass to it aswell? Lacharel can blow me, being the single most underlevelled healer, and as such the most useless, in the game. Least she's hawt, but if hawtness=unit strength, Louise and Karla would be God Tier >_>
Lol. Ross. Prove his worth or GTFO. Without Ross, he doesnt One-shot, even. Lulz >_>
L2read, lulz. That was obvious enough. Not even Crysta with her admitted failure at debate skillz would call Moulder's Luck 'nice' >_> Now, anyways, I promised you stats, so here goes. First off, Moulder has Warp/Hammerne, and a seperate Exp pool, so he gets a nice level lead. I'll be nice and peg it at only 3 levels, putting Moulder on 20/12. The rest I'll go with party average. 20(or ??)/9, which you quoted from WJC. Now, as for Supports, I really dont see Ross and Lach being played. Really. So they aint in, unless you can somehow manage to prove they're actually worth fielding. Now, Lute and Gilliam, they're worth fielding. I hope I dont really need to explain Lute's h4x to you, and Gilliam is a smexy man-tank <3 So I'll give Moulder Gilliam B, and Vanessa Lute B, FTW. Your team... has a B with eachother. FTL >_> Vanessa 20/9 Wyvern Knight (Con and Pierce (Mostly Con)>Swords), A Moulder, B Lute 33.5 Hp 21.4 Str 22.7 Skl 26.6 Spd 17.4 Def 19.1 Res 18.8 Lck Moulder, 20/12 Sage (Screw Slayer, Anima FTW), A Vanessa, B Gilliam 43.6 Hp 20.2 Mag 20.0 Skl 20.2 Spd 17.0 Def 20.0 Res 6.6 Lck Garcia, 20/9 Hero (If you want Warrior, wuteva, go argue it in your post), B Dozla 51.2 Hp 24.9 Str 18.6 Skl 13.8 Spd 14.0 Def 7.6 Res 12.6 Lck Dozla, ??/12 Berserker, B Garcia 52.3 Hp 22.5 Str 14.8 Skl 13.4 Spd 15.3 Def 9.8 Res 7.3 Lck Wow, that's just.... raped >_> Even when your team, youknow, finally gets the only supports they be getting, they're getting trounced. We actually have more Def then your guys. A Peg and a Sage, rofl. Between our Avd leads, 1-2 range on Moulder, and better Defences in general, we have your Hp beat. Now, if you're thinking 'but Crt. Evd!', Moulder's got more then enough to not get critted thanks to supports. Huzzah. Offensively, you have a bit more Str and Axes, but Moulder attacks Res, probably using Elfire, and Natasha with a Silver doubles and kills pretty much everything in one round. Hooraye for complete domination? I like to think so =3 I'd peg my comparisons earlier, but what with our support bonusses kicking in so much sooner, it seems wastefull. We also, ofcourse, have way more utility then your double axeman team. First and for a while only flier and first and probably best healer? That's sexy <3 Enjoy, Hollie =3 |
Previously known as: Serra, Hakato, Hakado, Dorgie Poo, Pearl Fey, Kallen and Sailor Moon  HakaDSie>Kovutachi
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| +Ema Skye | Jul 4 2007, 10:04 AM Post #5 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Aw, Hollie sucks... |
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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3:56 AM Nov 8
