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Well, first of all, good luck to both of you.

Quote:

 

Let me start by saying that, earlygame, your team is horribly crushed because of one simple fact: they don’t exist. Our characters have a whopping number of chapters where they're there and your characters are not. Clearly an advantage for them. The rules say that efficiency matters--our characters are there speeding up the turn count by annihilating enemies, saving NPCs and villages (for Vanessa), and building up supports, whereas yours are nowhere to be seen.

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Ok, so, Duessel arrives in Chapter 10 Ephraim or Chapter 15 Eirika. Arriving in Chapter 10 Ephraim will do him nothing since he starts at level ??/8 and won’t be gaining much (if any at all) EXP. So, we’ll begin at Chapter 15, which is also when Knoll shows up.

*Note that I will only post the stats here one time; I won't post new stats for new comparisons. I figure if I post the stats accurately the first time around, the differences I cite in other comparisons should be considered accurate as well.*

20/1 Vanessa
29.5 HP
13.6 Str
18.3 Skl
21.9 Spd
10.8 Def
11.7 Res
14.5 Luck
A Lute, B Moulder

19/0 Lute
25.1 HP
17.6 Mag
11.4 Skl
15.1 Spd
5.7 Defense
12.2 Res
16.1 Luck
A Vanessa, B Artur

??/8 Duessel
41.0 HP
17.0 Str
12.0 Skl
12.0 Spd
17.0 Def
9.0 Res
8.0 Luck

10/0 Knoll
21.7 HP
12.5 Mag
9.4 Skl
8.3 Spd
2.1 Def
10.4 Res
0.2 Luck

Duessel has no supports because there’s a whole list of people that Ephraim wants before Duessel, and even if Ephraim did want Duessel, he would only get him this early half the time, on Ephraim route.

Quote:

 

Well, Lute beats Knoll in every single stat, and so does Vanessa, so there’s not even a need for comparisons there.

Quote:

 

As for Duessel, he has some nice Defense/HP but he can’t reliably double enough to be worth anything.

Quote:

 

In addition, Vanessa has 51.3 more Avoid than Duessel does vs. 11.5 HP and 1.2 Defense (after supports). Lute has 39.3 more Avoid than Duessel vs. his 15.9 HP and 6.3 Defense. As far as Res, Duessel loses to both, for what it’s worth. So, Duessel even loses what he could possibly have had going for him, durability.

Quote:

 

Oh, and Vanessa and Lute have more use than Duessel this chapter due to being able to move in the sand, not that it matters anyway since both are crushing him.

Quote:

 

Whereas Knoll and Duessel have just begun courtship, Vanessa and Lute are on their 13th anniversary or something.

Quote:

 

Now, moving on to the lategame, when Knoll/Duessel is actually built up. Let’s assume for a moment that Knoll’s AS didn’t start at 7 and that he wasn’t so pitiful. Under this assumption, he’ll get to maybe 20/6-7 by the time that Vanessa is 20/10 and Lute is 20/12 (woo Staves for Lute...and Knoll too, otherwise he'd be lower levelled). For the sake of this comparison, however, let’s put him at 20/10. Y’know, if the player happened to be a Knoll fan and coddled him for however many chapters.

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20/10 Druid Knoll with A Duessel loses to 20/12 MK Lute by 32.3 Avo, 6.5 Defense, 4.8 Atk, and 2.4 Speed; he wins by 7.4 HP. Obviously, Lute is more durable and has better offense.

Quote:

 

Vs. Vanessa, Knoll loses by 43.8 Avoid, 9.6 Def, and 9.2 Speed. He wins by 5 HP and 2.2 Atk. Knoll’s Atk lead is overridden by Vanessa’s AS, and even if he could gain a lead due to attacking Res, he’s horribly crushed by Vanessa’s defenses. So horribly that it’s not even funny.

Quote:

 

He loses mobility to both.

Quote:

 

And this is at 20/10 for Knoll. Add in the fact that he won’t even be 20/10, and you have a massive failure.

Quote:

 

20/16 Duessel with A Knoll loses to Vanessa by 44.4 Avoid and 12.8 Speed. Vanessa also has Movement and flying. He wins in Atk by 1.6, HP by 13.8, and Defense by 4. While his HP and Def leads are “Hmm, nice,” Vanessa’s Avoid lead is “Wow.” His Atk lead is also rendered useless due to his 14.4 Speed, with which he will not reliably double at all (and, in fact, be doubled by faster enemies).

Quote:

 

For the enemies with 10 AS, keep in mind that Duessel only has to miss his average Speed by 1 point to not be able to double those, and the chance of that is quite likely (~26%).

Quote:

 

Vs. Lute, it’s 33.9 Avo, 6.4 Attack, and 6 Speed vs. 8.1 Defense and 14.3 HP. Crushed both defensively and offensively, and then Lute has Staves and Movement. Pretty clear win.

Quote:

 

So, in conclusion, we win the earlygame, when your units aren’t even there; we win the midgame, when your units fail massively and haven’t built up their support yet; and we win the lategame, where your units have built up their support yet still fail massively.

Add to that the fact that our units have an Anima X Anima support and are thus extremely beneficial to each other while your units are Dark X Anima, which only gives full Avo and half Def/Atk, and you have quite a huge victory for our side.

Quote:

 

What luck? We have Knoll on our team.

Quote:

 

On the contrary good sir... Non-existance can be a huge benefit. While Duessel's off being awesome chasing little girls for sex, and Knoll's sitting somewhere reading a book or something, fluxing any stray rats that might enter the room out of boredom, they are not hindering the group at all.

Quote:

 

There are merely training themselves before they join. Duessel's workin up the pursuit skill though you dumbasses recruit him before he gets it, and Knoll's workin up his only value as a plot character. Very serious ahnd important matters!

Quote:

 

As for Venessa and Lute, they're a horrible distraction to the team, while they're having tastey lesbian sex, including the pegasus. This disrupts the classroom, what some may call the battlefield, with inappropriate behavior for all the youngins like Ross. Think of the mental scars!

Quote:

 

Oh I'd say Ephraim wants Duessel, a lot. I mean really wants him. He commits incest, so obviously he goes the extra step: Old Men. They'd get to an A support before you can gouge your eyes out. However you are quite fortunate, because Duessel has his beady old-guy anime eyes fixated on Knoll cause he's so damn sexy.

Quote:

 

Venessa beast Knoll in magic? That's h4x dude! No wonder she's good, she fucking cheats, cheating bastards. GTFO.

Quote:

 

His horse crushes them before they could even try to penetrate Duessel. That horse is a beast liek whaomg!

Quote:

 

And how dare you suggest Duessel and Knoll are gay?!

Quote:

 

Also, what is this druid business?

Quote:

 

Summons can fly. :D

Quote:

 

Da fuck? Knoll's pure awesomeness makes him level 20/20 in no time. His flux is picking off those stragglers faster than Lute and Vanessa can engage with eachother.

Quote:

 

Lol AS, in my FE8? PuhLEASE! Vanessa can dodge all day, since she seems so reluctant. ...other than Lute, 'cuase her offense is so massive.

Quote:

 

Hmmm, all other arguments used pure averages, I don't understand this, any zero in on 10 AS either? Heh, for talking like we don't stand a chance you sure are nitpicking at something pretty minor.

Quote:

 

How does she have movement? It's the same as the Summon King, cept she can't deploy summon minions like a badass.

Quote:

 

Seriously, what's with you guys and homos? Anima x Anima? Ew!

Quote:

 

Summons are awesome, I mean think about it, these little axe wielding flying ghost things that can run around and kill stuff, and if they die you can just make another one, and somehow get exp out of it. Free slaves > fat lesbians any day of the year IMO.

Quote:

 

You just proved yourselves wrong. Knoll has what, -6 luck at 20/20?

Quote:

 

Everyone knows rats have a minimum of 11 AS, so they're doubling Knoll, who has like 1 Def. OWNED LOLLER ZING! Besides, he's probably emo or some shit.

Quote:

 

wtf is a plot

Quote:

 

Plot \Plot\, n. [Abbrev. from complot.]

1. Any scheme, stratagem, secret design, or plan, of a complicated nature, adapted to the accomplishment of some purpose, usually a treacherous and mischievous one; a conspiracy; an intrigue; as, the Rye-house Plot.

Quote:

 

Who cares about Ross? He's gay for dear old dad. Lesbianism > pedophilic gay incest, no contest, so fuck Ross.

Quote:

 

Ephraim and Duessel? Nah, Ephy loves his dear sister way too much to even think of anyone else, and if he does... that Rapier's got 21 Might against Duessel, who has like 12 AS. If Duessel's actually after Knoll like you say (haha), he has to worry about going all emo himself after his emo lover gets one-rounded by a generic level 9 Mercenary or some shit, because he sucks that bad.

Quote:

 

Too bad, I convinced Intelligent Systems to make Vanessa h4x and there's nothing you can do about it.

Quote:

 

His horse can barely move because it has to carry his old, slow, fat ass around. So Vanessa is flying around and shit, and Lute moves into the desert and Duessel is like ohnoes. Oh, that might explain why he has freaking 12 AS at base.

Quote:

 

gaygaygaygaygaygaygaygaygay

Quote:

 

Druid or summoner, he fails either way. Fails hard.

Quote:

 

Vanessa can fly and she doesn't die in one hit!

Quote:

 

Knoll + awesome in the same sentence? The hell you've been smoking? Even if Knoll were at 20/20, he'd still be losing in Avoid, Def and Res to Vanessa and Lute at the first levels Solid provided. That's how much he sucks.

Quote:

 

Duessel's slow enough to be doubled by random enemy n00bs, like those Swordmasters on Last Hope or Gwyllgis, and he's like, matching a lot of the random enemies in AS, so he won't double shit. What a massive n00b. Veteran general, yet gets DA'd by randoms? God, how bad can you be? Sure, they won't be doing much damage to him, but DAing for like 20 is better than hitting once for 24, 'cuz 40 > 24. He can double like... some of the unpromoted enemies and shit on Last Hope, but they're giving him shit for EXP. Might wanna let Knoll kill 'em, he needs a huge level lead to not, y'know, fail. Except he still does to our two, even at 20/20.

Quote:

 

Like, slightly more than a fourth of the time (which is pretty huge), he'll be unable to double 10 AS enemies. 10 AS. Which most of your units besides people like Gilliam, Garcia, and Knoll will have by level 10 unpromoted or so. That's gay. Extremely gay. Oh yeah, wait a sec. Duessel can double Knoll at bases! Awesome!

Quote:

 

Mage Knight, foo'. It's awesome because Lute doesn't need to send wimps who rob your team of EXP to kill stuff. And she doesn't have awful durability like Knoll the Necro or his summons. I mean... wtf? Summoning corpses and shit? Necrophilia isn't cool and it leads to shit like making a bunch of double accounts on proxies and drama. Knoll sucks for this.

Quote:

 

Only homo affinity here is Dark. Anima x Anima is awesome, because of that lovely full Atk, and the full Def and Avoid, which Knoll'd really want, but he doesn't get. Sucks to be him, eh?

Quote:

 

orlythey'realmosttheonlythingsinthisgametodieeasierthanknoll

andyougetverylittleexpfromitanditcouldbeusedoncharacterswhowon'tbeasfulloffailasKnoll

fat?theirConstatsbegtodiffer

Quote:

 

Also, Duessel is like Sean Connery, who's awesome, but Duessel isn't awesome, therefore he soils Sean Connery's good name. And he lacks the accent, which makes him full of fail. Knoll is some emo who gets doubled and killed in one round by kittens and crap. Our lesbians > that.

Quote:

 

You just proved yourself phail, because that was the joke.

Quote:

 

DON'T DODGE THE POINT.

Quote:

 

Knoll getting doubled by said rats don't make Knoll not be in the fluxing of them.

Quote:

 

That means, he is trying to figure out why he doesn't have boobs.

Quote:

 

Well, either a plot is a small extent of ground, or a stratagem. So therefore, Knoll is CRUTIAL to you being able to make your evil plans in FE8 to kill shit.

Quote:

 

STOP BEING GAY. I ORDER YOU!!!

Quote:

 

And since when is death bad for someone like Knoll?

Quote:

 

Strike him down, and he will become more powerful that you could possibily image...!!! Like, he would actually make the entire world cut off into mysterious blackness, and then, everyone would hear a TON of cursing (like God getting pissed), and everyone would then see some shit about Nintendo of America, then something about Fire, and Emblems, and some sort of rocks, and after a bit, it is like everyone went back in time!!! And Knoll is alive! And he is there, like, "I did that."

Quote:

 

Oh yeah? I convinced Intelligent Systems that you are gay, and so thats why FE10 isn't out in the US yet, because they feel betrayed. You, the guy who made them make a lesbian good, is actually a dick eater. It broke their hearts. You bastard.

Quote:

 

12 is a good number though. Like, lets say you had a mission where you had to Egg Leon's house, and AS was actually eggs, but you could only through a dozen Eggs at it. Well, Duessel's AS of 12 is exactly how many eggs are in a carton. So, you wouldn't have any left over eggs of phail after he throws his eggs. But not Vanessa or Lute.... No. They have lots of fail eggs. Hense, their lesbianism.

Quote:

 

At least Duessel is able to rape people. The bad rape

Quote:

 

Summoners fail?! Does THIS LOOK LIKE FAIL TO YOU1!?!?!?.....Now, any more questions about how much summoners pwn? Best class in game.

Quote:

 

YOU ARE GAY, GAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAY!!!!

Quote:

 

Or maybe Duessel LETS them double attack him, to show off his DEF stat.

Quote:

 

She does from a penis.

Quote:

 

Well, 100% of the time for me, Vanessa never gets more than 11 AS and 5 STR.

Quote:

 

Us-10001, You-0

Quote:

 

Duessel can pull that off. Vanessa and Lute can't. And plus, I've talked to Duessel. He has the accent. In fact, Duessel's voice actor IS Sean Connery.

Solid the Succinct

Jul 1 2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

 

You just proved yourself phail, because that was the joke.

No, you just proved YOURself phail, because that was the joke on your joke.

Plus, you're using Knoll and Duessel, so that makes you double phail.

Phail count
You - 2
Us - 0

Stfu, you don't know the secrets behind all of this just yet, I shall show them to you as we go alone.

Quote:

 

DON'T DODGE THE POINT.

Dodging ftw. Except in the case of Knoll, who, y’know, can’t.

Because he doesn't need to, unlike you guys. Knoll's not a dumbass like you and would run himself into battle, all he has to do is summon and heal from the backlines, who the fuck cares if he can't dodge when he never gets hit?

Quote:

 

Knoll getting doubled by said rats don't make Knoll not be in the fluxing of them.

Rats have 8 Move. Knoll w/Flux has a max of 7 Atk Range. Sorry, Knoll!

6 move + 1-2 range weapon = 8 attack range. Sorry 1st grade math, Solid just insulted ya.

Lest Solid be in the talking of first tier in which case the rats are also first tier and only have 7 move.

Quote:

 

That means, he is trying to figure out why he doesn't have boobs.

If Knoll were endowed with breasts, his AS would fall a further 2 points, which means he'd get doubled by tin cans.

Ah but you see, he DOES have boobs, as I will explain later. His AS used to be higher.

Quote:

 

Well, either a plot is a small extent of ground, or a stratagem. So therefore, Knoll is CRUTIAL to you being able to make your evil plans in FE8 to kill shit.

“Shit” is about all that Knoll _will_ be able to kill, so yes, you’re right.

Must be why he has such a good record when fighting you, eh Solid?

Quote:

 

STOP BEING GAY. I ORDER YOU!!!

Ordering gay men, huh? Kinky.

He order you to CEASE being gay, meaning if you followed the order he would no longer be ordering gay men around, duh.

Quote:

 

And since when is death bad for someone like Knoll?

Since Knoll’s a Necro and all, he’d have to do himself.

He raises the dead, not sex them up, you're the one with the gender confused people here not us.

Quote:

 

Strike him down, and he will become more powerful that you could possibily image...!!! Like, he would actually make the entire world cut off into mysterious blackness, and then, everyone would hear a TON of cursing (like God getting pissed), and everyone would then see some shit about Nintendo of America, then something about Fire, and Emblems, and some sort of rocks, and after a bit, it is like everyone went back in time!!! And Knoll is alive! And he is there, like, "I did that."

Only if “that” refers to Duessel.

It refers to moving a fucking mountain, actually.

Quote:

 

Oh yeah? I convinced Intelligent Systems that you are gay, and so thats why FE10 isn't out in the US yet, because they feel betrayed. You, the guy who made them make a lesbian good, is actually a dick eater. It broke their hearts. You bastard.

Actually, FE10 isn’t out yet because IS was so shocked at the stupidity of two certain FE players (whose names will not be mentioned here, although let the record show that they dangerously resemble the words “pentenal” and “fio”) who actually chose Knoll and Duessel as their debate team on an Internet forum. They’re still recovering from the shock; the head developer got a hernia and one of the artists now has permanent erectile dysfunction.

I am personally shocked at the lack of ability in understanding just what you've gotten yourself into, Sir Solid. Maybe you should try being a liquid or a gas you can get around more often.

Quote:

 

12 is a good number though. Like, lets say you had a mission where you had to Egg Leon's house, and AS was actually eggs, but you could only through a dozen Eggs at it. Well, Duessel's AS of 12 is exactly how many eggs are in a carton. So, you wouldn't have any left over eggs of phail after he throws his eggs. But not Vanessa or Lute.... No. They have lots of fail eggs. Hense, their lesbianism.

Congratulations

Suprise!

Quote:

 

At least Duessel is able to rape people. The bad rape

Now who’s the gay one?

Not Duessel.

Quote:

 

Summoners fail?! Does THIS LOOK LIKE FAIL TO YOU1!?!?!?.....Now, any more questions about how much summoners pwn? Best class in game.

My answer to THIS is

THAT

Imagine THAT mounted. Mage Knights >>>>>>>>>>>

That's one ugly bitch you found there, I guess imagining it mounted makes it awesome becaues the horse is pretty enough to offset the ugly.

Also: Great Knights are awesome.

Quote:

 

YOU ARE GAY, GAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAYGAY!!!!

Nice one, Mr. “Manly” Republican. Stealin our lines. is the only one that’s gay here…what a gay emoticon!

What's really ghey is not having any emoticon at all! What kinda non productive, unadvertised nobody are you anyway?

Quote:

 

Or maybe Duessel LETS them double attack him, to show off his DEF stat.

Zomg, an actual point made in this debate. Too bad Vanessa has only 1 less Def and like 40-some more Avoid at 6 levels lower, eh?

Ehhh? It's why only Lute can sex0r her up with that 30 MAG stat cap of hers. Oh wait, you wanna go mage knight, fucking retards. Shutting down Venessa's sexability completely.

Quote:

 

She does from a penis.

That’s ‘cuz she’s supersensitive.

Ah, the twitching all makes sense now...

Quote:

 

Well, 100% of the time for me, Vanessa never gets more than 11 AS and 5 STR.

Lol, even if you don’t use her, Vanessa has 1 less AS at base than Duessel does at 20/8.

Lol, cuz she can't take hits, and isn't badass enough to get hit twice.

Quote:

 

Us-10001, You-0

zomg

*crush*

[size=7]IT’S OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAANDDD!![/size]

What?! Are you SURE?!

Quote:

 

Duessel can pull that off. Vanessa and Lute can't. And plus, I've talked to Duessel. He has the accent. In fact, Duessel's voice actor IS Sean Connery.

Our team >>>> Yours

G’head.

Sean Connery is more man than you and your partner will ever be. And furthermore, my point as to why neither Knoll nor Duessel are gay...





Knoll is a woman.

Long ago I once mentioned the fact that Knoll's hood is the uber Sex Hood.

Why is this?

Well, that is because THIS is what happens when "he" removes the hood from his shaden visage. A true identity is revealed!

Not only is Knoll actually a woman, but he's an assassin as well, even more well hidden than Volke!

She uses a badass dagger to top it off.
Knoll's such a badass that he assassinated people for FUN. Just look at this face of ecstacy!

With a different dagger no doubt, a freakin unicorn horn. That's right, Knoll kills unicorns, falcoknights ride a very close relative of unicorns, thusly...

Knoll kills pegasus and falcoknights for sport.
You know what that means? Vanessa is killed before you even get her by Knoll, and she's actually an avatar of Knoll's very power as a reincarnated summon!

Knoll isn't weak, he merely transfered some of his immense powers into Vanessa's cadaverous being, even providing a soul, because his is so awesome he can afford to.

This is the true story behind Vanessa, and why Knoll's own stats are sub par, he's playing as two characters. Ooops, I mean she is.

Duessel isn't gay, he's a pimp. Knoll isn't gay, she's a transvestite in the name of assination and major plot twist goodness.

Lute is just an annoying loud, self proclaimed prodigy that YOU want to stiffle with your dumbass mageknight class. Vanessa and Knoll are one in the same.

It's 3 vs. 1 my fine flossed friends. You don't stand a chance. With Caster, t3h H4x, and Sean Connery on our side, all you have is a Lilina clone, FE8 style.

Quote:

 

Stfu, you don't know the secrets behind all of this just yet, I shall show them to you as we go alone.

Quote:

 

Because he doesn't need to, unlike you guys. Knoll's not a dumbass like you and would run himself into battle, all he has to do is summon and heal from the backlines, who the fuck cares if he can't dodge when he never gets hit?

Quote:

 

6 move + 1-2 range weapon = 8 attack range. Sorry 1st grade math, Solid just insulted ya.

Lest Solid be in the talking of first tier in which case the rats are also first tier and only have 7 move.

Quote:

 

Ah but you see, he DOES have boobs, as I will explain later. His AS used to be higher.

Sentenal

 

He is a cross-gender Caster. That means, he is trying to figure out why he doesn't have boobs.

Quote:

 

Must be why he has such a good record when fighting you, eh Solid?

Quote:

 

He order you to CEASE being gay, meaning if you followed the order he would no longer be ordering gay men around, duh.

Quote:

 

He raises the dead, not sex them up, you're the one with the gender confused people here not us.

You

 

We have a pedo and a Caster transvestite, take that!

Quote:

 

It refers to moving a fucking mountain, actually.

Quote:

 

I am personally shocked at the lack of ability in understanding just what you've gotten yourself into, Sir Solid. Maybe you should try being a liquid or a gas you can get around more often.

Quote:

 

Suprise!

Quote:

 

Not Duessel.

Quote:

 

That's one ugly bitch you found there, I guess imagining it mounted makes it awesome becaues the horse is pretty enough to offset the ugly.

Also: Great Knights are awesome.
user posted image

Quote:

 

What's really ghey is not having any emoticon at all! What kinda non productive, unadvertised nobody are you anyway?

Quote:

 

Ehhh? It's why only Lute can sex0r her up with that 30 MAG stat cap of hers. Oh wait, you wanna go mage knight, fucking retards. Shutting down Venessa's sexability completely.

Quote:

 

Ah, the twitching all makes sense now...

Quote:

 

Lol, cuz she can't take hits, and isn't badass enough to get hit twice.

Quote:

 

What?! Are you SURE?!

Quote:

 

Sean Connery is more man than you and your partner will ever be. And furthermore, my point as to why neither Knoll nor Duessel are gay...

Quote:

 

Knoll is a woman.

Long ago I once mentioned the fact that Knoll's hood is the uber Sex Hood.

Why is this?

Well, that is because THIS is what happens when "he" removes the hood from his shaden visage. A true identity is revealed!

Not only is Knoll actually a woman, but he's an assassin as well, even more well hidden than Volke!

She uses a badass dagger to top it off.
Knoll's such a badass that he assassinated people for FUN. Just look at this face of ecstacy!

With a different dagger no doubt, a freakin unicorn horn. That's right, Knoll kills unicorns, falcoknights ride a very close relative of unicorns, thusly...

Knoll kills pegasus and falcoknights for sport.
You know what that means? Vanessa is killed before you even get her by Knoll, and she's actually an avatar of Knoll's very power as a reincarnated summon!

Knoll isn't weak, he merely transfered some of his immense powers into Vanessa's cadaverous being, even providing a soul, because his is so awesome he can afford to.

This is the true story behind Vanessa, and why Knoll's own stats are sub par, he's playing as two characters. Ooops, I mean she is.

Duessel isn't gay, he's a pimp. Knoll isn't gay, she's a transvestite in the name of assination and major plot twist goodness.

Lute is just an annoying loud, self proclaimed prodigy that YOU want to stiffle with your dumbass mageknight class. Vanessa and Knoll are one in the same.

It's 3 vs. 1 my fine flossed friends. You don't stand a chance. With Caster, t3h H4x, and Sean Connery on our side, all you have is a Lilina clone, FE8 style.

First post

this topic, since, y’know, you didn’t do a damned thing to counter with real stats or anything

Let me start by saying that, earlygame, your team is horribly crushed because of one simple fact: they don’t exist. Our characters have a whopping number of chapters where they're there and your characters are not. Clearly an advantage for them. The rules say that efficiency matters--our characters are there speeding up the turn count by annihilating enemies, saving NPCs and villages (for Vanessa), and building up supports, whereas yours are nowhere to be seen.

Ok, so, Duessel arrives in Chapter 10 Ephraim or Chapter 15 Eirika. Arriving in Chapter 10 Ephraim will do him nothing since he starts at level ??/8 and won’t be gaining much (if any at all) EXP. So, we’ll begin at Chapter 15, which is also when Knoll shows up.

*Note that I will only post the stats here one time; I won't post new stats for new comparisons. I figure if I post the stats accurately the first time around, the differences I cite in other comparisons should be considered accurate as well.*

20/1 Vanessa
29.5 HP
13.6 Str
18.3 Skl
21.9 Spd
10.8 Def
11.7 Res
14.5 Luck
A Lute, B Moulder

19/0 Lute
25.1 HP
17.6 Mag
11.4 Skl
15.1 Spd
5.7 Defense
12.2 Res
16.1 Luck
A Vanessa, B Artur

??/8 Duessel
41.0 HP
17.0 Str
12.0 Skl
12.0 Spd
17.0 Def
9.0 Res
8.0 Luck

10/0 Knoll
21.7 HP
12.5 Mag
9.4 Skl
8.3 Spd
2.1 Def
10.4 Res
0.2 Luck

Duessel has no supports because there’s a whole list of people that Ephraim wants before Duessel, and even if Ephraim did want Duessel, he would only get him this early half the time, on Ephraim route.

Well, Lute beats Knoll in every single stat, and so does Vanessa, so there’s not even a need for comparisons there. As for Duessel, he has some nice Defense/HP but he can’t reliably double enough to be worth anything.

In addition, Vanessa has 51.3 more Avoid than Duessel does vs. 11.5 HP and 1.2 Defense (after supports). Lute has 39.3 more Avoid than Duessel vs. his 15.9 HP and 6.3 Defense. As far as Res, Duessel loses to both, for what it’s worth. So, Duessel even loses what he could possibly have had going for him, durability.

Oh, and Vanessa and Lute have more use than Duessel this chapter due to being able to move in the sand, not that it matters anyway since both are crushing him.

Whereas Knoll and Duessel have just begun courtship, Vanessa and Lute are on their 13th anniversary or something.

Now, moving on to the lategame, when Knoll/Duessel is actually built up. Let’s assume for a moment that Knoll’s AS didn’t start at 7 and that he wasn’t so pitiful. Under this assumption, he’ll get to maybe 20/6-7 by the time that Vanessa is 20/10 and Lute is 20/12 (woo Staves for Lute...and Knoll too, otherwise he'd be lower levelled). For the sake of this comparison, however, let’s put him at 20/10. Y’know, if the player happened to be a Knoll fan and coddled him for however many chapters.

20/10 Druid Knoll with A Duessel loses to 20/12 MK Lute by 32.3 Avo, 6.5 Defense, 4.8 Atk, and 2.4 Speed; he wins by 7.4 HP. Obviously, Lute is more durable and has better offense.

Vs. Vanessa, Knoll loses by 43.8 Avoid, 9.6 Def, and 9.2 Speed. He wins by 5 HP and 2.2 Atk. Knoll’s Atk lead is overridden by Vanessa’s AS, and even if he could gain a lead due to attacking Res, he’s horribly crushed by Vanessa’s defenses. So horribly that it’s not even funny.

He loses mobility to both.

And this is at 20/10 for Knoll. Add in the fact that he won’t even be 20/10, and you have a massive failure.

20/16 Duessel with A Knoll loses to Vanessa by 44.4 Avoid and 12.8 Speed. Vanessa also has Movement and flying. He wins in Atk by 1.6, HP by 13.8, and Defense by 4. While his HP and Def leads are “Hmm, nice,” Vanessa’s Avoid lead is “Wow.” His Atk lead is also rendered useless due to his 14.4 Speed, with which he will not reliably double at all (and, in fact, be doubled by faster enemies).

For the enemies with 10 AS, keep in mind that Duessel only has to miss his average Speed by 1 point to not be able to double those, and the chance of that is quite likely (~26%).

Vs. Lute, it’s 33.9 Avo, 6.4 Attack, and 6 Speed vs. 8.1 Defense and 14.3 HP. Crushed both defensively and offensively, and then Lute has Staves and Movement. Pretty clear win.

So, in conclusion, we win the earlygame, when your units aren’t even there; we win the midgame, when your units fail massively and haven’t built up their support yet; and we win the lategame, where your units have built up their support yet still fail massively.

Add to that the fact that our units have an Anima X Anima support and are thus extremely beneficial to each other while your units are Dark X Anima, which only gives full Avo and half Def/Atk, and you have quite a huge victory for our side.

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lol wuteva

And why are we going alone? I’m no fan of going into dark places with strangers.

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So it’s a smart idea to run out in the thick of battle when you die to most enemies in three hits, get doubled on occasion (which wouldn’t be too bad were the aforementioned not true), and can’t dodge worth a crap? Hmm…I have a feeling that’s not what you meant, but I thought I’d point that out anyway.

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Anyway, on this awesomeness you call Summoning:

~Summons steal EXP from people that need it in the off-chance that they manage to kill. The EXP they take far outweighs the 10 EXP Knoll gains with each summoning.
~Speaking of off-chances and things sounding like awful, Summons’ offense is just that; they never have a chance to double-attack in basically all cases (they usually spawn with one-range axes and most enemies have range 1 counterattacks).
~Summons’ expendability is moot in the face of truly invincible units, such as…gasp…Vanessa and Lute, who both have nigh-infinite durability.
~Summons – useful offense – useful expendability = totally useless.

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I asked Hollie and she said rats have 8 move prepromotion and 9 move postpromotion. I win.

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wtfcontradictionlololol

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Quit dodging the point (or trying to, since, y’know, neither Duecel not Knoll can). Fact is, regardless of how much Solid may (read: doesn’t) suck at fighting, Knoll still sucks at fighting.

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That’s not possible, considering that you can’t cease doing something you aren’t doing to begin with. ((Well, that’d apply to me, anyway, can’t say anything about the other two… >_>))

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Need I say more? Perhaps so, considering how difficult it’s been for y’all to understand anything said thus far. See, transvestitism = cross-dressing = gender confusion. Oops.

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No, it refers to me having to restart the whole damn chapter over again…and BTW, that’s *not* a desirable trait. Just so you’re aware of that. Of course, there’s savestates, but honestly, why bother when you could just use people that have better durability than the average piece of tissue paper?

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holy crap, dude, your copouts suck balls more than gay men…like duecel and knoll lol

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You see, noble sir,
I have but one thing to say
To you both: NO U

((lol, haikus))

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I SAY, OLD BEAN! I AM QUITE ASTONISHED BY YOUR CLAIM! IS THIS A FACT, OR…A CLEVER RUSE?!

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lol, and you think such a poorly drawn Rydia’s any better? Honestly, that picture makes Rydia look like a half-human half-silicone mockery of creation. *points Asvel to picture, then to you*

BTW, user-posted image doesn’t win at all.

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I’M RICK ASTLEY, BITCH!

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The hell are you rambling about now, you crazy fiend? Lute’s Mag cap is completely unrelated to how badly Vanessa outdoes Duecel in survivability.

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Twitchy? Who’s twitchy?

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1) Not taking hits > taking hits (assuming, of course, that these hits are in fact attacks and not Blackjack hits, and even then, Blackjack hits at anything over 15 are bad anyway)
2) Being doubled =/= good.

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lol, Sean Connery in an FE debate, who the hell cares, since this is between Vanessa, Lute, Duecel, and Knoll, not Bond/Connery/wuteva

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gg

No one cares about your bullshit, no-evidence theories based on pointless RPG character tie-ins.

You

 

BTW, user-posted image doesn’t win at all.

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Now, then, for REAL evidence to prove Vanessa x Lute > Duecel x Knoll.

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Knoll is a woman.

Long ago I once mentioned the fact that Knoll's hood is the uber Sex Hood.

Why is this?

Well, that is because THIS is what happens when "he" removes the hood from his shaden visage. A true identity is revealed!

Not only is Knoll actually a woman, but he's an assassin as well, even more well hidden than Volke!

She uses a badass dagger to top it off.
Knoll's such a badass that he assassinated people for FUN. Just look at this face of ecstacy!

With a different dagger no doubt, a freakin unicorn horn. That's right, Knoll kills unicorns, falcoknights ride a very close relative of unicorns, thusly...

Knoll kills pegasus and falcoknights for sport.
You know what that means? Vanessa is killed before you even get her by Knoll, and she's actually an avatar of Knoll's very power as a reincarnated summon!

Knoll isn't weak, he merely transfered some of his immense powers into Vanessa's cadaverous being, even providing a soul, because his is so awesome he can afford to.

This is the true story behind Vanessa, and why Knoll's own stats are sub par, he's playing as two characters. Ooops, I mean she is.

Duessel isn't gay, he's a pimp. Knoll isn't gay, she's a transvestite in the name of assination and major plot twist goodness.

Lute is just an annoying loud, self proclaimed prodigy that YOU want to stiffle with your dumbass mageknight class. Vanessa and Knoll are one in the same.

It's 3 vs. 1 my fine flossed friends. You don't stand a chance. With Caster, t3h H4x, and Sean Connery on our side, all you have is a Lilina clone, FE8 style.

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Let me start by saying that, earlygame, your team is horribly crushed because of one simple fact: they don’t exist. Our characters have a whopping number of chapters where they're there and your characters are not. Clearly an advantage for them. The rules say that efficiency matters--our characters are there speeding up the turn count by annihilating enemies, saving NPCs and villages (for Vanessa), and building up supports, whereas yours are nowhere to be seen.

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Ok, so, Duessel arrives in Chapter 10 Ephraim or Chapter 15 Eirika. Arriving in Chapter 10 Ephraim will do him nothing since he starts at level ??/8 and won’t be gaining much (if any at all) EXP. So, we’ll begin at Chapter 15, which is also when Knoll shows up.

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*Note that I will only post the stats here one time; I won't post new stats for new comparisons. I figure if I post the stats accurately the first time around, the differences I cite in other comparisons should be considered accurate as well.*

1/0 Actual Vanessa
17 HP
5 Str
7 Skl
11 Spd
6 Def
5 Res
4 Luck

20/1 Vanessa for people who like frustration
29.5 HP
13.6 Str
18.3 Skl
21.9 Spd
10.8 Def
11.7 Res
14.5 Luck
A Lute, B Moulder

19/0 Lute
25.1 HP
17.6 Mag
11.4 Skl
15.1 Spd
5.7 Defense
12.2 Res
16.1 Luck
A Vanessa, B Artur

??/11 Duessel
43.5 HP
18.6 Str
13.2 Skl
12.9 Spd
18.4 Def
9.9 Res
8.6 Luck
Ephraim B

10/0 Knoll
21.7 HP
12.5 Mag
9.4 Skl
8.3 Spd
2.1 Def
10.4 Res
0.2 Luck

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Duessel has no supports because there’s a whole list of people that Ephraim wants before Duessel, and even if Ephraim did want Duessel, he would only get him this early half the time, on Ephraim route.

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Well, Lute beats Knoll in every single stat, and so does Vanessa, so there’s not even a need for comparisons there. As for Duessel, he has some nice Defense/HP but he can’t reliably double enough to be worth anything.

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In addition, Vanessa has 51.3 more Avoid than Duessel does vs. 11.5 HP and 1.2 Defense (after supports). Lute has 39.3 more Avoid than Duessel vs. his 15.9 HP and 6.3 Defense. As far as Res, Duessel loses to both, for what it’s worth. So, Duessel even loses what he could possibly have had going for him, durability.

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Oh, and Vanessa and Lute have more use than Duessel this chapter due to being able to move in the sand, not that it matters anyway since both are crushing him.

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Whereas Knoll and Duessel have just begun courtship, Vanessa and Lute are on their 13th anniversary or something.

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Now, moving on to the lategame, when Knoll/Duessel is actually built up. Let’s assume for a moment that Knoll’s AS didn’t start at 7 and that he wasn’t so pitiful. Under this assumption, he’ll get to maybe 20/6-7 by the time that Vanessa is 20/10 and Lute is 20/12 (woo Staves for Lute...and Knoll too, otherwise he'd be lower levelled). For the sake of this comparison, however, let’s put him at 20/10. Y’know, if the player happened to be a Knoll fan and coddled him for however many chapters.

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20/10 Druid Knoll with A Duessel loses to 20/12 MK Lute by 32.3 Avo, 6.5 Defense, 4.8 Atk, and 2.4 Speed; he wins by 7.4 HP. Obviously, Lute is more durable and has better offense.

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Vs. Vanessa, Knoll loses by 43.8 Avoid, 9.6 Def, and 9.2 Speed. He wins by 5 HP and 2.2 Atk. Knoll’s Atk lead is overridden by Vanessa’s AS, and even if he could gain a lead due to attacking Res, he’s horribly crushed by Vanessa’s defenses. So horribly that it’s not even funny.

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He loses mobility to both.

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And this is at 20/10 for Knoll. Add in the fact that he won’t even be 20/10, and you have a massive failure.

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20/16 Duessel with A Knoll loses to Vanessa by 44.4 Avoid and 12.8 Speed. Vanessa also has Movement and flying. He wins in Atk by 1.6, HP by 13.8, and Defense by 4. While his HP and Def leads are “Hmm, nice,” Vanessa’s Avoid lead is “Wow.” His Atk lead is also rendered useless due to his 14.4 Speed, with which he will not reliably double at all (and, in fact, be doubled by faster enemies).

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For the enemies with 10 AS, keep in mind that Duessel only has to miss his average Speed by 1 point to not be able to double those, and the chance of that is quite likely (~26%).

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Vs. Lute, it’s 33.9 Avo, 6.4 Attack, and 6 Speed vs. 8.1 Defense and 14.3 HP. Crushed both defensively and offensively, and then Lute has Staves and Movement. Pretty clear win.

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So, in conclusion, we win the earlygame, when your units aren’t even there; we win the midgame, when your units fail massively and haven’t built up their support yet; and we win the lategame, where your units have built up their support yet still fail massively.

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Add to that the fact that our units have an Anima X Anima support and are thus extremely beneficial to each other while your units are Dark X Anima, which only gives full Avo and half Def/Atk, and you have quite a huge victory for our side.