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| Odin and Soren vs Reikken and DH | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 24 2007, 06:43 PM (577 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Jun 24 2007, 06:43 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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maybe the underdogs can do it!!!!!! |
 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Barst | Jun 26 2007, 05:31 PM Post #2 |
Like I said before... I am perfect.
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Let's start at Ch.10/13, when Gerik and Tethys have joined. Battle stat comparison, assuming that Moulder is supporting Vanessa and Gilliam, while Colm supports no one. Yeah, I'll stop to explain those. First off, Moulder does not want Colm. The support has a lower base, starts later than his other options, and gives worse bonuses. It also won't happen. While Colm is going off somewhere to loot chests, Moulder is staying with the group to heal. They cannot build supports from a mile apart. If Moulder is dragged along with Colm, he won't be healing your group, and they'll be left to have to find another solution for healing. Not that helpful to the rest of your team. Also, it isn't that hard to have one unit escort a Thief to a chest, but with a healer tagging along, slowing them down? Nah. Not happening. On top of that, Colm's affinity doesn't help Moulder much. He needs defensive stats the most, and while Colm's affinity gives him one, Moulder supporting Vanessa and Gilliam gives him full in all three. Now, Colm does want Moulder. However, the support is hard to make and Moulder probably won't be supporting him anyways, so the support doesn't exist. Now, you could have Colm and Moulder support when there isn't things to steal. But then, Colm is really doing nothing but be a liability. Plus, as I said, Moulder doesn't want that support. Now, you'll probably want to know why Colm gets no supports. Well, with Neimi not getting used, Rennac not existing yet, and Moulder, Kyla and Marisa not available, he has no one. ((Kyle will be supporting some combination of Forde, Ephriam and Lute, while Marisa will be getting a triangle support with Gerik and Tethys.)) Well, with that past, let's compare their stats. Moulder ((LV8, C Vanessa, C Gilliam, Heal)) Atk: -- Hit: -- Crit: -- AS: 11 HP: 24 Def: 5 Res: 8 Avo: 34 Ddg: 12 Colm ((LV10, Iron Sword)) Atk: 12 Hit: 110 Crit: 3 AS: 15 HP: 24 Def: 5 Res: 3 Avo: 42 Ddg: 12 Gerik ((LV10, Steel Blade)) Atk: 25 Hit: 95 Crit: 6 AS: 12 HP: 32 Def: 10 Res: 4 Avo: 32 Ddg: 8 Tethys ((LV1)) Atk: -- Hit: -- Crit: -- AS: 12 HP: 18 Def: 5 Res: 4 Avo: 34 Ddg: 10 I'll compare Colm to Gerick and Moulder to Tethys. Gerik's wins Atk (13) Crit (3) HP (8) Def (5) Res (1) Colm's wins Hit (15) AS (3) Avo (10) Ddg (4) The Res, Ddg, and Crit are so close they may as well be tied. They both double just about everything, so the AS lead doesn't matter. So, it's 15 Hit and 10 Avo vs. 13 Atk, 8 HP, and 5 Def. Obvious who wins here. Now, you might say that those advantages are only because Gerick is using a Steel Blade and Colm wasn't. Now, he'll obviously start out uaing that Steel Blade, but I will show his stats with a Steel Sword instead: Gerik's wins Atk (10) Crit (3) HP (8) Def (5) Res (1) Colm's wins Hit (5) AS (2) Avo (8) Ddg (4) It's closer, but still an obvious win. Now, to compare Moulder and Tethys: Tethys's wins AS (1) Moulder's wins HP (6) Res (4) Ddg (2) So, they're basically tied, except Moulder is a bit better at taking magic attacks. ((They're both likely to fall in the same number of physical hits anyways.)) It seems like a win for Moulder, even though it's just a small one. However, they both have an ability that replaces their ability to fight. Moulder can... Heal. Not that impressive. However, Tethys can give another character the ability to act again. Each turn she refreshes a character, she's contributing as much to the team as that character does. She can copy anyone, so she can let one of your characters attack again and kill a tough enemy, she may as well have attacked just then. Or she can heal, and be just as good as Moulder is. Tethys's ability to dance allows her to do anything, unlike Moulder who is stuck to that one role. Therefore, Tethys is being more helpful than Moulder. Now, if both of them are doing better, it's overall a lot better, no? You might argue that Colm's ability to steal brings him above Gerik, but that only will happen in a few chapters, and at that it won't always be worth the trouble of sending a group out to go after a chest. Now, let's go forward, to Ch.17. Colm ((LV17, Steel Sword)) Atk: 18 Hit: 102 Crit: 5 AS: 16 HP: 29 Def: 7 Res: 4 Avo: 47 Ddg: 15 Gerik ((LV21, Steel Sword, B Tethys, C Marisa)) Atk: 28 (10) Hit: 130 (28) Crit: 21 (16) AS: 18 (2) HP: 45 (16) Def: 16 (9) Res: 9 (5) Avo: 62 (15) Ddg 21 (6) Wow. Colm now loses EVERYWHERE. No way his thieving will make up for that. You probably attribute that to the levels, because Gerik has been gaining more despite the Thief Exp bonus. That's because Colm can't fight well, so has hasn't been, well, fighting. So, he wasn't gaining much Exp. He's also been busy stealing stuff, instead of fighting. Stealing only gets 10 Exp, and you can't do it often. Now, let's compare Moulder and Tethys. Moulder ((LV15, B Gilliam, C Vanessa)) Atk: -- Hit: -- Crit: -- AS: 14 HP: 28 (5) Def: 8 Res: 11 (1) Avo: 46 Ddg: 18 Tethys ((LV7, B Gerik, C Marisa)) Atk: -- Hit: -- Crit: -- AS: 16 (2) HP: 23 Def: 8 Res: 10 Avo: 62 (16) Ddg: 22 (4) Tethys now wins statwise. The only differences that mean anything here are in HP and Avo. 16 Avo >>>>>>> 5 HP. She still has that amazing Dance ability, which pushes her even farther ahead. So, continued win. Let's check out endgame stats now. Gerik ((LV27, A Tethys, B Marisa, Silver Sword)) Atk: 36 (10) Hit: 140 (26) Crit: 30 (24) AS: 20 HP: 50 (15) Def: 21 (11) Res: 13 (6) Avo: 78 (21) Ddg: 30 (13) Colm ((LV23, Silver Sword)) Atk: 26 Hit: 114 Crit: 6 AS: 20 HP: 35 Def: 10 Res: 7 Avo: 57 Ddg: 17 Oshit... Colm is still losing MASSIVELY! Again, the ability to steal is not going to make up for huge losses just about everywhere. His ability to steal just does not make up for that. Now, to compare the other two: Moulder ((LV23, A Gilliam, B Vanessa, Shine)) Atk: 23 Hit: 126 Crit: 23 AS: 17 HP: 36 (6) Def: 15 (4) Res: 17 Avo: 64 Ddg: 30 Tethys ((LV15, A Gerik, B Marisa)) Atk: -- Hit: -- Crit: -- AS: 22 (5) HP: 30 Def: 11 Res: 17 Avo: 90 (26) Ddg: 37 (7) Tethys's WTF Avo wins this one. But wait, Moulder can attack and Tethys can't! Well, Moulder really can't fight that well. Just about anyone Tethys dances for will perform better than Moulder, thus she may as well have attacked instead. So, that's no advantage for Moulder. From the moment they join, Tethys and Gerik are beating Colm and Moulder. Sure, Colm and Moulder have plenty of time before that to be useful, but Colm doesn't steal many important things and you could use a Vulenary and get almost the same effect as Moulder's healing. Colm and Moulder aren't helping much at all, while Gerik and Tethys will be a huge help. Gerik and Tethys >>> Colm and Moulder. |
| Formerly Othin | |
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| Dragon Hellfire | Jun 27 2007, 05:41 PM Post #3 |
Dragon Hellfire; three random words
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Starting on chapter 10/13 would be fine and dandy if our units were like normal units (Such as Gerik for example), but we have a Thief and a Priest. Not normal units. Moulder for one has his own experience pool to derive from. This is experience that is not taking from other units that Tethys can only begin to counterweight after she has joined. All that experience he is gaining for himself before that time adds to our teams usefulness. However, Colm gains more experience due to his experience boost which Gerik sadly doesn't counterweight. Colm is also stealing stuff to help you in the moneys department. That time that Colm and Moulder are there and Gerik and Tethys are not is a point for them. An entire half of this debate is how good Moulder is with Colm. If we were to discuss how they are when they are not supporting each other we would not get an accurate debate on what was meant. You proving that Gerik is better than Moulder when he is supporting other people does not prove he is better than Moulder when he is support Colm, so you've proved nothing. Of course we'll gladly take the support option that you've so nicely claryfied is a possibility for Moulder, and give him B Vanessa.
Nah. Do you know what chapters he is looting chests before Gerik and Tethys arrive? 2 Eirika route and 3 Ephraim route. Chapter 3's chests are right along the main path of the chapter anyways, so it's still very possible for you to have them support while he's looting. So we're at about 1 chapter for Eirika route and 2 for Ephraim route. Then you have chapter 8 where the first chest you come across is on the main route of the path, so no worries there. The next two are at the end of the chapter where most every enemy is already dead. So there is no reason to not have Moulder tag along (and hurt units so he can gain experience) for them to gain their support. Moulder could just follow Colm to add to their support about 5 turns (10 experience) and while doing that he could be healing wounded units following the pack. 0 problems on Eirika, 1 on Ephraim. So the only way that you can use Colm stealing stuff against us is if we were to go on the Ephraim route. That would just be worse for you though, because both of your units would join 3 chapters later and we would have just that much more time to build our support and level up. Also, Gerik and Tethys aren't insanely compatible. Such as if Tethys wanted Gerik to move and attack again they would not be able to support for that turn. Not only for Gerik too, most likely not all your fighters are two squares away from Gerik where Tethys can just move right next to Gerik for getting the other person to move. It wouldn't be that bad to just skip the support all together because when Gerik and Tethys want to support it takes away from Tethys being able to do what she does best; Dance. Not just dance for anyone two squares away from Gerik. Colm and Moulder are much more compatible than Gerik and Tethys.
Moulder only misses out on 8 Eva, Colm on the other hand gains 3 Atk, 3 Def, 3 Res, 7 Hit, 7 Eva, and 7 Crt. Getting all of that >>>>> Missing out on 8 Eva.
Whoa whoa whoa, saying that without any backup? On his starting level he can double the enemy brigands; something only Seth, Eirika, and Slim Lance!Vanessa can say. Iron Sword!Colm: 7 x2; 14 Iron Sword!Franz: 10-11 Slim Lance!Vanessa: 5 x2; 10 Iron Axe!Garcia: 13-14 Hatchet!Ross: 7 Iron Lance!Gilliam: 12 Iron Sword!Eirika: 7 x2; 14 Iron Sword!Seth: 17 x2 Well obviously Seth wtfraeps him, but aside from that Colm is one of your best offensive units at this point, and he grows faster in level thanks to the experience boost and being slightly underleveled. Defensively he has a massive 53 Eva against the Brigands. The best of them only have 81 base Hit. 81-53=28. 28 is only 16 real hit. If they do somehow land a hit, he can survive it. It would take 12-13 Brigands to take him down on average. It takes him 12 turns to take out all the enemy brigands. Meaning that on counter attacks alone he has a chance of killing all the enemy Brigands before they kill him without healing. Win.
No, your stats are too laughable, even for Eirika route. Moulder should be gaining more than FIVE levels in NINE chapters, and Colm should be gaining more than 8 levels in 8 chapters. Moulder can be gaining at least 11 experience per turn, which is about 9 turns per level. Chapter 2: This chapter only takes about 6 turns, but thats already 55 experience for Moulder. L:3 E:55 Chapter 3: This chapter takes about 8 turns, with getting attacked once 78 experience. L:4 E:33 Chapter 4: 11 turns if you include boss preperation turns; the turns you spend making sure you can defeat the boss. It would be ghey if the boss killed you. 122 experience. L: 5 E:55 Chapter 5: About 12 turns because it would be good to slow down before Joshua so it would be easier to recruit him. Then you have boss preperations at the end of the chapter where Moulder could heal the units that came on the other route. 133 experience. L:6 E:88 Chapter 6: I would just like to note that this chapter is a FoW map, in which a thief like Colm has massive usefulness. He will be able to let your party see danger before it gets to them, which without him would be impossible. Massive usefulness to our team. Anyways, this chapter takes about 8 turns. 89 experience. L:7 E:77 Chapter 7: This one should take about 12 chapters if you go around cleaning everything and making sure you are sexed up by Moulders magical rod for the boss. 133 experience. L:9 E:10 (oshi-) Chapter 8: Godly. This chapter takes about 11 turns to power through ... but that's not it. After that you can go to the backroom and get some chests which takes about 4 turns. These turns Moulder can be healing HP's. So a total of 15 turns. Wow. 166 experience. L:10 E:76 --EPHRAIM ROUTE--(I'll get to Eirika route next time, I swear) Chapter 9Ep: A good 14 turns to complete this chapter. There are chokepoints and quite a bit of enemies, not to mention THE GREATEST BOSS EVER IN IT. Gheb you are going to want to heal up a lot so you can survive him. They say his Mt is OVER 9000!!!! Err, 155 experience. L:12 E:31 Chapter 10Ep: This one is obviously 10 turns. No ifs ands or buts. So 100 experience. L:13 E:31 Chapter 11Ep: The Phantom Ship. Commonly referred to as the hardest chapter in the game, also a FoW. You know what that means, right? Yes, Colm's vision range is helping the party h4x in one of the most h4x chapters. Gerik and Tethys are nowhere to be found. Anyways, this chapter takes about 8 turns. 89 experience. L:14 E:20 Chapter 12Ep: This is a lengthy chapter, as there's lots to go see. If you're short on money you might have to stop by the Arena or such. The boss is a very powerful Cyclops, which means healing preperation with Moulder. 15 turns is a fair estimate methinks. 155 experience. L:15 E:75 Then FINALLY Gerik and Tethys have shown up. After a cumulative 119 turns of Moulder and Colm. I'll be very nice and 6/10 that number for the amount of turns they have supported. That totals 71 turns. Which means they are at a B and have 22 support experience. Ahahahah, wow. Moulder and Vanessa have their B as well. Now before you complain that Moulder will not be healing every turn, note that I did take off turns for when I see fit and I made up for staffs that give more experience than Heal. You also drastically underleveled Colm. I think you failed to realize that just because he is a thief doesn't mean he has bad offense. There are plenty of axe users early on for him to raep with his great Spd and WTA, and his supports give full Atk. The only reason Colm was being so poor of a fighter for you is because of how badly you under leveled him. Colm has the same abilities as your other frontliners, and he has an experience boost. Over all these chapters it is not out of the question for him to be promoted. NOW, after actually looking at what levels our units will be, lets compare them to your team. Colm ((LV21, Rouge, B Moulder)) Atk: 14.2 Hit: 37.4 Crit: 10.6 AS: 19.8 HP: 33.5 Def: 11.5 Res: 8.6 Avo: 60.7 Ddg: 21.2 Moulder ((LV15, B Colm B Vanessa)) Atk: -- Hit: -- Crit: -- AS: 13.8 HP: 28.4 Def: 9 Res: 12 Avo: 46 Ddg: 18.4 Gerik ((LV10)) Atk: 14 Hit: 35 Crit: 6 AS: 13 HP: 32 Def: 10 Res: 4 Avo: 34 Ddg: 8 Tethys ((LV1)) Atk: -- Hit: -- Crit: -- AS: 12 HP: 18 Def: 5 Res: 4 Avo: 34 Ddg: 10 We have two units that are not maining combative usefulness; a thief and a healer. That thief just so happens to be beating your offensive units in every single offensive parameter and every single defensive parameter. How much are they gaining in experience to see how fast Gerik catches up? Well lets just pit them against a level 10 unpromoted and see. Gerik Dealing Damage: 10 Colm Dealing Damage: 6 Oh boy, Gerik is doing tons better right now. Gerik Killing Base: 0 Colm Kiling Base: -13 ya rly Gerik Killing: 30 Colm Killing: 16 So Gerik gains fast. Of course, this is only for a short while, it's easy to say that Colm is 20/6 by the time Gerik promotes. And is Gerik still gaining then? Lets check! I'll use a level 1 promoted unit this time. Gerik Dealing Damage: 10 Colm Dealing Damage: 9 oshi- Gerik Killing Base: 0 Colm Killing Base: 5 wut? Gerik Killing: 30 Colm Killing: 34 w1n. Class bonuses are just too good to beat. So yeah, Colm always has a level lead on Gerik and the rest of the team, which lets his offenses be similar or better than most of them. He is in no way bad offensively. Srsly, full Atk from supports + level lead = win. Moulder is hardly different. He gets a class bonus too. Before that he has a constant flow of experience allowing him to level properly, and then after that he and his offense go raep enemies gaining loads of experience. Ephraim route Moulder and Colm crush Gerik and Tethys statistically throughout, this is without even mentioning other utility. You have a frontliner and a dancer. The dancer is good, while lacking rings even, but the frontliner is just another frontliner that gets thoroughly raeped by a thief. We have the games best healer which is good for keeping your units alive at times and for using a ton of useful staffs such as restore. Restore may not come into play much, but it's insanely good when it does. Colm gets you a bunch of nifty things. Here's what CATS has listed in another debate for reference: From Stealing: Pure Water, Antitoxin, Energy Ring, Red Gem, Speedwing From lockpicking Iron Lance, Hand Axe, Iron Sword, Silver Sword, Elysian Whip, Angelic Robe, Restore, 17500G, Ocean Seal, Hammerne, Tomahawk, Knight Crest, Talisman, Runesword, Fenrir, Speedwing, Red Gem, Body Ring, 3 Elixirs, 2 Guiding Rings, Vulnerary, 5 Lockpicks, Dragonshield, Goddess Icon GG. All this stuff is letting you promote more units, overpower units, get tons of cash, and give them h4x weapons. This is better than what Gerik and Tethys can do for the party combined. With this you can promote 1 flier, 1 thief(lul), 1 Knight/Cavalier, and 2 magic units. Then you can make a "super" unit from all the stat boosters. 7 HP, 2 Str/Mag, 4 Spd, 2 Def, 2 Res, 2 Lck, 2 Con That's insane. Without Colm your units would be quite a bit worse. Just add those stats to one unit and tell me they are not godly. Hell, even bottom tier shit becomes usable with a bit of Colm's magic. What's Tethys do? Oh yeah, let another one of your combative units be a combative unit again, maybe let another one of your healers heal again. That's fine and dandy but it isn't Colm level stuff. And Gerik is Moulder level stuff. Colm and Moulder have wayyy more overall utility than Gerik and Tethys. Next I would like to really get into other supporters. Colm has nobody, check. Moulder has Vaness, a h4x tier unit that wants him and you verified, check. Gerik and Tethys have Marisa? Wait, no. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Bottom tier units for support options don't usually come up. She has a really bad class branch, she comes late and underleveled, and she doesn't even promote that soon because she has too much competition. Joshua, Gerik, and hell, even Garcia want it before her. She never turns out especially good with lackluster offenses and bad defenses, so why the hell would you think this is valid? No. You will be bent on support options unless you tell me why I would use Marisa. Anyways, lets get to endgame stats. Just to see who turns out better, I mean the shock that our team has put on yours should be more than enough to show that our team is greater than yours no matter the final chapter statistics, but lets just see. Colm ((LV38, Rouge, A Moulder)) Atk: 21.3 Hit: 56.35 Crit: 16.15 AS: 29.5(!!!) HP: 46.3 Def: 16.7 Res: 13.0 Avo: 89.7(!!!) Ddg: 31.6 Moulder ((LV33, Bishop, A Colm, B Vanessa)) Atk: 22.6 Hit: 54.4 Crit: 17.8 AS: 20.5 HP: 43.3 Def: 17.2(!!!) Res: 19.2 Avo: 64.8 Ddg: 23.8 Gerik ((LV31, Hero, A Tethys)) Atk: 24.5 Hit: 60 Crit: 26.5 AS: 21 HP: 54 Def: 20 Res: 12 Avo: 71 Ddg: 23.7 Tethys ((LV18, Dancer, A Gerik)) Atk: --- Hit: --- Crit: --- AS: 23.9 HP: 32.4 Def: 11.1 Res: 17.8 Avo: 86.4 Ddg: 32.2 Well statistically your team has improved a lot. By that I mean catching up. Colm is better against a few enemies, because of his ability to double, but Gerik is better (while not as big of a gap as when Colm is good) against a few enemies. Colm has massive EVA so his defenses are not worse Gerik's because he is hardly getting hit, along with his good Def and Res. Tethys isn't fighting and she probably won't be getting attacked due to her inability to counter, so her statistics are moot. The biggest improvement is Moulder the Boulder. He is liek the only magic unit that can frontline fight and do it well. He may not be beating Gerik defensively (besides in Res), but his defenses are definately not worse, and he is not dying ... then you have his offenses. He's a bishop, which have Slayer. Units with Slayer attack monsters for a million damage, and he also attacks Res for those few units that aren't monsters. His Atk is almost as high and his AS might as well be equal, so he's better against non-monsters, then raeps him by too much against monsters. Srsly, Moulder is an endgame god that fails to die and kills everything in his path. Gerik is good sure, but he's not as good as Moulder statistically. So a recap of what's changed: Moulder becomes godly everything units. Gerik gains Axes. Colm no longer needs to use a lockpick. So we've only improved since last comparison. That's right, our team > your team completely through the game. |
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.:FES:. Formerly: Juggernaut, FireBane 100% of BwdYetis don't care about your percentages. | |
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| AdamNW | Jun 29 2007, 02:11 PM Post #4 |
Needs moar Sety
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okay, I previewed the post and the quote tags weren't working (*crosses fingers*
duh? We all know who you are using, one who gains EXP quick, and one who doesn't.
That's fine and all, but here's the thing. Moulder only gets 11 EXP per use of a heal staff, or roughly 4 levels per staff. I suppose you could abuse this, but I suppose we could abuse Tethys, right? But we hit another problem. Mouder isn't going to be able to heal every turn, and once he does, that's it, nothing else worth noting. Tethys can start dancing from turn 1, and after she does, the unit she danced for can go attack again. Neither will gain EXP that fast, but Tethys doesn't need to promote, whereas moulder does. Lute is a far better choice for the first guiding ring, then Artur.
I suppose, but I doubt his promotion will be before Gerik and Tethys join
The thief bonus is his ONLY good area beyond his avoid. Poor stats all around in which supports HAVE to make up for, which is why Colm has such an advantage against Gerik when comparing stats at his joining time.
No funds rank lol
If gerik was a thief and Tethys was a cleric, yes, it would. But Colm is a thief and Moulder a priest, them joining at the same level when Gerik and Tethys join would be terrible.
no, it's accurate. Moulder and Colm fail together because they shouldn't be supporting
See above
yayz
Erm, what? That made no sense, so I will assume you meant chapters 10 ERI and 12 EPH. Gerik and tethys join in chapter 10, and there aren't any chests here. I'm sure you mean 11, in which case there are some, but by now Tethys and Gerik will have a C support. Same goes for 12, no chests.
2 for ephraim route? We've only hit one set of chests so far...
So we've gone from chapters w/ chests to problems? What are you talking about? :slowpoke:
lol not rly. Colm hits up 3 chests in ephraims route, compared to 0 in Eirika's route before Gerik and Tethys join. LOL fail.
You remind me of Nin in this post. Always pointing out the obvious... lol. If you want that support with Gerik and Tethys, why would you go to ephraim's route again? It only makes it harder on Gerik to level and even harder on Tethys should she fall in range of an archer or something (any smart tactician wouldn't be shoving her into melee range.)
...or she can dance for ANOTHER unit so they can do their business. Say, colm? Tethys would make Colm's life easier by enabling him to go get chests faster. She can also dance for gerik for the hell of it, rite?
Or we can have Tethys dance, THEN gerik can go and move next to her, right?
lolno. A couple scenarios where put above
There are times when this DOES happen, and when it does, you probably shouldn't ignore it. Unless you were TRYING to avoid the support, but then again why would you?
The only way Moulder couldn't possibly benefit from that is if you weren't planning to promote him, thus making him obsolete along with the whole support. Now what? This is why Colm and Nemi are a much better A, the support is faster, both will be promoting quickly, and the bonuses are far more superior for both 3/4 classes the two can promote to.
Is there anything to back up? No, really, anything? No. His offense if horrible as he starts to level, as he relies on that support to do decent damage.
Hmm... but he can steal in this chapter. Othin said whenever there is no stealing to be done, and there is stealing to be done 
So, if Garcia does roughly the same damage with one hit compared to Colm with two hits, why would you be using Colm? lolfail You also forgot everyone's favorite pink haired archer, Nemi. 
So is Neimi AND Ross. Ross will be underleveled but still somewhat on par to your other axe users THE ENTIRE GAME, so using Ross would be better then using Colm? Nah.
You are going to kill ALL OF DEM BRIGANDS with colm? No wonder he gains so much experience, your abusing him.
*stabs Othin* >_>
9 turns = 99 exp, lol. That's seriously all I can point out here, because I don't want to stab my partner again 
Congratz, you can do math.
NO. Not at all. If Moulder needs to heal that much just to make sure you can kill an entombed, he fails. And, why not just have Lute and Artur kill him? Avoiding counters is good, right? We all know that Lute is the best anima user.
This assumes you are wasting turns where Natasha can heal as well, which wastes your staves majorly. While your at it, go arena abuse 
And I would like to note that A is the first letter of the alphabet. Don't you think we know that?
If this is the bigger map (and more dangerous boss), why is it taking less turns to complete?
Um, I'm sorry, chapters? And 133 exp is only if he gets attacked, in which he is very likely to be hit. If he gets hit, it's only safe to use a vulnerary, which is minus one heal. 122 EXP, which leaves him at lvl 8 with 99 EXP lol.
*lvl 10 with 65 EXP lol. No other comments here, other then Colm won't be getting supports here. --EPHRAIM ROUTE--(I'll get to Eirika route next time, I swear)
I don't really remember this chapter well, so I don't have any comments here. lvl 12 with 20 EXP though...
again, he got hit. Minus one heal, assuming he lived through it. Level 13, 9 EXP
:crash: Okay, enough with the obvious shit, DH. Srsly. That isn't helping MOULDER any, why bring it up?
Wow, do you ever know when to stop pointing out the obvious. We all know that Tethys aint here.
By now, Artur and Lute should be able to take care of him, but you never know.
.....no. From the non existant base it takes 80 turns to go B. They need 9 more turns. Get it right kthx.
That's actually exactly what it means. Poor as fuck skill and not so great strength leave him relying on supports again to kill anything. What's funny, is that Gerik's base strength is higher then 20/-- colm's. Lol. Now, with supports (B as you gave below), Colm makes it equal. Wow, sad. How the hell will Weak old Colm make it up? Well, he doubles every fucking thing on the map. Good? Sorta. Why? Gerik isn't having majorly bad doubling problems either. And if he doesn't double, Tethys is right there next to him dancing for him lol. Colm fails here.
supports aren't going to help him much when his cap throughout the whole game is 20, and he won't be hitting that any time soon, I guarantee you. If by some miracle he DID cap, he only has 30 atk with an iron sword, A moulder, and B Neimi. Or, 43 with Ahudlama. Now, is that very good? Not really. Totally ignoring supports on Gerik's part, he actually does cap Strength at 25 as a hero (talking 20/20 at least). 30 atk with an iron sword, or 43 with Ahudlama. THEN, if we give him supports, it goes up by two (A Tethys B Joshua). 45 > 43. I'm being nice and giving Colm the sword he should NEVER have, btw. If your going to complain about why Gerik is 20/20, think about it. Do you honestly think that Colm has a chance in hell of capping strength at 20/20? Be lucky I gave him that. Colm has a 7% chance of capping strength at 20/10, but Gerik over here has a 30% chance of capping strength at 20/10. Now tell me, how sad is it that Gerik is more capable of hitting his cap then Colm when Gerik's is 5 points higher? Supports barely make up for Colm's loss.
When gerik promotes is when he starts winning in offenses. Fuck colm's level lead, It isn't making him look any better.
ZOMG no EXP rankings, remember?
Not really
level lead =/= good. The fact that colm has to rely on supports to deal damage is bad. With full supports, Gerik demolishes Colm offensively.
Bad? No. Worse then Gerik? Most definately.
Not by much, especially considering he won't be promoting as soon as the other units.
lol no. If gerik gets his A support with tethys in chapter, say, 16, and B with joshua in the same chapter, where the average level is about 20/2, Gerik will have ~20 strength, 22 with supports, 33 with a steel blade. Now, if Colm gets his little level lead of 20/7, with full supports, he has ~15 strength, 20 with supports, 25 with iron sword. Now now, I'm sure your wondering 'why does Gerik get a steel blade?' Because he isn't slowed down by it like Colm. Colm has 7 con going into Rouge, meaning he can only lift the Wrymslayer, Slim Sword, Shadowkiller (I'm not totally sure if it is even in the game), Iron sword, and Killing Edge. The Killing Edge isn't going to Rogue Colm because Joshua will make much better use of it as a SM, the slim sword... lol, they Wrymslayer is fairly rare, so all that leaves is the iron sword. Now, I know what your thinking: "He has enough AS as it is." True, Rogue colm has ~24 AS alone, but if I gave him a Steel Blade, he is weighed down to ~17 AS, compared to Gerik's ~18 AS. lol. Of course, Colm will be doubling for 50 mt with an Iron sword, but Gerik, assuming for some reason he DOESN'T double, can have Tethys dance for him, having an overall mt of 66. 66 > 50 lol.
YAY, GO MOULDER. He still isn't benefitting from the bonuses when he is healing, however...
Making Moulder good alone, but it isn't helping Colm whatsoever
Yeah, go colm, getting weapons that cost next to nothing in the store :\ I can't disagree to this point otherwise.
The only time I would ever make a super unit is if I was planning to ditch every other one of my units. Just me though, I don't know what you would do.
Gogo math!
No, really?
"ONOEZ! WITHOUT COLM MY UNITS WILL BE AVERAGE! WHAT EVER WILL I DO!"
Adding them to one unit would be pointless unless all I had was one unit.
no. What you proved is that Colm stealing everything he can AND being able to fight is better then Tethys being able to dance. Well, no shit.
...okay
FUCK MARISA. okay? Good. Now, Gerik will most likely be getting a B with Joshua, maybe Innes. Tethys may get B Artur, but that's it. that's better then Colm's void of nothingness, right?
...nah
Sure sure, whatever
Endgame rogue? No, not ever.
okay, okay. Doesn't look that good...
YAWN
86 avo at a lower level then colm lol
*sigh*
Gerik can double fine because if his ability to never lose AS AND Tethys dancing for him.
Colm isn't as good as Gerik against any enemies. Gerik having 2 weapons automatically puts him at the advantage. He can attack the lance-using Wights with axes, whereas colm is at WTD. He can attack Cyclopses with Swords, doing more damage then Colm because of the bad AS cyclopses have. In fact, the only thing Gerik can't double are select Gwyllgies.
71 avo isn't that much worse then 89. Neither will be getting hit that much, but when colm does, he gets hit harder.
Her inability to counter is decreasing her chances of getting attacked? wtf? And tethys will be dodging just as much at Colm if she ever does get attacked, which won't be likely.
Are you on crack? 64 avo is HORRIBLE. Look at lute: Lute (lvl 20/15 Sage, A vanessa, B Artur) Atk: 31.9 Hit: 50.2 Crit: 8.45 AS: 21.8 HP: 34.9 Def: 15.9 Res: 26.1 Avo: 91.4 (!!!) Ddg: 47.8 Now, the hit and crit loss won't be mattering much due to her using Anima. She has an INSANE avoid to make up for the minor defense loss. She has overkill CEV and Avo, so she won't be getting hit near as much as Moulder.
If he isn't beating Gerik then his defenses are worse |:
lol so are Artur and Natasha
Moulder is lucky enough to not promote until mostly enemies are about. If he was some monk, Gerik would destroy him
yeah, basically.
nah. EDIT - fixed tag |
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| Reikken | Jul 2 2007, 09:44 PM Post #5 |
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He can heal nearly every turn, and he can also use staves that give more exp than Heal, which more than makes up for any turns of healing missed.
...what? Regardless of whether or not he promotes before they join is irrlevant to this point. He doesn't have to promote before they join to be useful. This is about him being useful before they join at the cost of zero loss of exp to the rest of the team, unlike combat units. Usually a unit helping out before another joins is mostly canceled by that unit also using up exp and stuff, but Moulder is not using up exp, so he's already well in the positive before Gerik and Tethys even show up.
If he's beating Gerik, he's beating Gerik. Who cares what factors contribute to it? He's still beating Gerik.
Okay? Who cares? Saying that is about as ridiculous as saying "No combat rank lol" as a response to someone saying that one unit is better at fighting than another. There don't have to be rankings for more money and items to be useful. Money and items are useful in themselves.
What are you even talking about?
Except...they ARE supporting. Whether they should or shouldn't be doesn't matter because that is indeed what is happening.
...? The only way I can make any sense of this is to assume that you misread what was posted, so I'll post it again for you: "Nah. Do you know what chapters he is looting chests [size=2]before[/size] Gerik and Tethys arrive? 2 Eirika route and 3 Ephraim route."
I would ask the same of you.
I believe you missed the point. If there are no chests, there's no reason Colm and Moulder won't be building supports.
Gerik and Tethys are worse on Ephraim route. Indeed. And it's not a wholly inferior route or anything like that, so it will be taken.
Gerik is supposed to be attacking, not following Tethys.
They were half scenarios at best. They didn't factor in that Gerik needs to be attacking enemies.
....what?
I don't know why either of you are even talking about this. And yours doesn't make much sense...
Oh please. Well, while we're making baseless claims, here's another one: Gerik's offense is horrible, so he won't be reaching many levels.
point for Colm...!
ou mai gaaa Franz also does less than Garcia. I guess we can't use Franz either. Oh wait, Garcia also does less than Seth. Zomg, no one can fight except Seth. I guess everyone else is worthless. Oh, but wait! Colm can still steal things. w1n.
Awesome. Colm gets a B support. And it's uber-fast, too. w1n
What are you talking about? This isn't about who gets the most exp.
He can indeed do it. The point is that suggesting that he sucks at fighting or something is ridiculous.
...!
Other staves besides Heal exist, so it's more than 99.
%::% .....this emote needs to be added, srsly.
Huh? Don't you mean that the rest of the team fails? Moulder isn't the one attacking. He's the one keeping people alive. Avoiding counters? If you can heal, you don't even need to avoid counters.
Wastes your staves? Staves can be bought. And guess who Moulder's partner is...! Indeed. The master of moneyz.
Indeed. FoW? Good thing we have Colm.
Oh? Do you think it should take more turns? Okay. More exp for Moulder, then.
or if he uses this thing called Mend. Or whatever other staff. And...if he's only getting hit one time, he doesn't need to heal.
No, Colm is getting supports. Moulder and any other damaged characters can follow.
You don't remember Gheb?!??!?!1/1/11/
wrong again
Last I checked, this debaet was Moulder and Colm vs Gerik and Tethys. Anyway, yes. FoW...and on the hardest chapter in the game? That would suck if you didn't have Colm.
Yes. More healing and theiving utility at no cost of exp to the rest of the party ftw. Tethys can't add any of that until she joins...but she isn't here yet..! No. It takes 60 turns to get to B. 120 points are needed, and this supports is a +2. 120/2 = 60. 71 > 60. by 11 turns. So that's 11*2 = 22 points towards A. And DH was being nice. Only 60% of the time? Surely you jest.
...? If Colm is doing at least as well as Gerik, and Colm fails, that means Gerik fails as well. And since Gerik's only use is combat, and he fails at it, that's really really really bad. And B Neimi = +2 atk for Colm. ftw
Wtf if up with this comparison? 20/20? And Colm with an Iron Sword? wtf? Colm = tons of moneys. If he needs a more expensive weapon to kill the enemy, he's using it.
Who cares? Supports DO exist. And even if Gerik did manage to be better, he would have to be winning by a gigantic amount to overcome Colm's thief utility. And he doesn't, so Colm is better.
Being better at fighting = being better at fighting When Gerik promotes? He has 10 levels to go before then.
This isn't about exp rank. This is showing you that the level gap is not only not going to close, but it's actually going to grow a bit.
Oh? You would rather not have an exp boost?
Demolishes? I like how you backed that up so well. Oh, oh, let me counter: Colm demolishes Gerik offensively.
oh?
Sure he will. He's promoting before Gerik, at least.
lol, Iron Sword. You can buy Killing Edges, so there's no reason for Colm not to be using some. And you can also buy...Silver Blades...! Zomg. They're expensive, but this is Colm. If he ever needs that much atk, he has it. Steel Blades are also quite expensive, btw. Same cost as a Silver Axe. And if Tethys is wasting her turn refreshing Gerik because he didn't double, that's using two people to do the job of one. when instead, I could have just used Colm and then had Moulder free to do whatever. Wow, COLMOULDER is amazing.
what?
Oh no. Moulder isn't Colm. Oh no.
That's because Colm > your team.
Indeed. You could make even better use of them. Colm = w1n
rly
I dunno, maybe you should use Colm and then make them h4x. ftw
Indeed. Do something even better with them.
Indeed. Colm >>>>>>>>>>
or Neimi, as you suggested
%::% ,,,emote pls
instantaneous C Neimi ftw? then a rly fast B
...nah
Sure sure, whatever
What?
better than your team, at least, and that's all that matters
I know. He's pathetic, isn't he?
She's losing in defensive stats, so I dunno what you're loling about
indeed
Not losing AS doesn't help when his AS isn't high enough to begin with. Tethys dancing for him because he didn't double is wasting Tethys's turn. Moulder never has to waste his making up for Colm not doubling since Colm always doubles.
Lancereaver ftw
Yes, it is indeed THAT much worse. A 90 hit enemy has 0% real on Colm and 7.4% real on Gerik A 100 hit enemy has 2.5% real on Colm and 17.1% real on Gerik A 110 hit enemy has 9.0% real on Colm and 30.8% real on Gerik A 120 hit enemy has 19.5% real on Colm and 48.5% real on Gerik Colm > Gerik defensively. And Gerik is the one who gets hit harder from magic. Getting hit way more often and getting hit harder? phail And this is without Neimi. Add in that support and Colm rapes even more.
No, she has less avo and can't get WTA.
How about I don't. Who cares about Lute? Lute is not on your team.
Do you know what a tie is?
But Gerik isn't. 
Good thing Moulder isn't a Monk, eh?
Nah? Nah what? Is that it? How disappointing... |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| Barst | Jul 5 2007, 09:02 PM Post #6 |
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Like I said before... I am perfect.
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So... He's gonna waste your Mend, Barrier, Torch, etc. staffs just to get moar Exp? Nah.
Yay, point for him. Too bad he has so many more against him...
Again, it means that he's only beating Gerik when Gerik joins. After that, the advantage fades.
Not all of the ones Colm steals. Half the ones he steals earlygame won't help at all, all they could possibly do is sit in storage to help your Funds Rank-Owait, no Funds Rank. So they're sitting in Storage doing nil, and making Colm's ability to steal them worthless.
I notice you neglected to counter the arguments against that. Until you do, you can't use that support.
Do you perhaps mean how many chapters?
Except that the support isn't gonna happen, as you so kindly neglected to argue against. No chests also means that Colm's advantage in his ability to loot them is gone.
There's one reason to not take that route, and no reasons to take that route. So, why are you gonna take that route? 
Who says Gerik can't attack while next to Tethys?
I take it you don't know that it's possible for Gerik to move, attack and build supports in one turn?
What is there to misunderstand? :/
Point is: Moulder and Colm both have much better A supports to work on than each other. Even if they might not benefit as much from taking those supports, they aren't the only characters on the team. If they have to deprive other characters of good supports to support each other, their support is a detriment to the team and should not be used.
:|
It's a point in one aspect, but a loss in the one you're trying to defend.
*Stabs Soren*
So Neimi is a valid support option then? Well, if Moulder will want to support other characters over Colm, and Colm has another supports that'll help him just as much as Moulder...
Of course it isn't, but that wasn't the point. Don't you know what your partner said?
Thanks for giving us yet another reason why Colm is bad: He takes tons of Exp from everyone else to get to a level where he's even usable.
...Yet you fail to give us a reason why we should give Moulder our rarer staffs, 'cause for now it seems to be no reason other than to give him more Exp. He needs to take good staffs from the rest of the team to be good? lolfail
So you need to waste staff uses and time just to kill a boss easier when you already can kill him easier? Sure there's no Tactics Rank, but just remember the rules: "2. Efficiency will matter. There are no rankings, but it's always better to be cheaper, finish faster, kill faster, etc."
Again, Rule #2 kills this.
Is it not Moulder we're debating about right now?
Nah.
You still haven't given us a reason to use Mend. Plus, he'll get hit hard.
Nah.
Last I checked, we were talking about Moulder at the moment. Colm being good here does not help Moulder get Exp.
Eh? No, he ISN'T beating Gerik, for reasons stated.
Maybe you should have backed up that claim.
You're giving him a Steel Blade? There goes his Avo lead. D=
Not as h4x as you make it seem.
Nah.
Magic is hardly common, and against physical enemies, Gerik doesn't have much to worry about. When Colm does get hit, though, he sure does have something to worry about. |
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| Dragon Hellfire | Jul 6 2007, 01:04 PM Post #7 |
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Dragon Hellfire; three random words
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Alright, I'm going to ignore all the "Nah." comments as they don't do anything. They don't debate, and because there was no valid proof elsewhere that related to the subject I can only assume you are disagreeing without reasoning. This is a safe assumption, is it not? So your post is very lacking in content, giving me little to work with, thanks.
So... Gerik's gonna waste your Steel Blades, Silver Swords, Killer Axes, etc. just to gain moar Exp? Yes, that's is exactly what he'll be doing because that's how you get through the game. The times you use the Torch staff are in FoW maps, and that can hardly be considered wasteful, and Barrier staffs are good for letting your low res units be more versatile, that's hardly worthless, and then Mend staffs are for healing people that took hard blows, that's hardly worthless. What's Gerik do with his weapons? He attacks with what a thief could do better. And our team is godly on funds, while your team has nothing. Your team does no more than take away from the overall teams funds, while our team adds to it. So if Moulder wants to use that Mend staff and gain more experience, then fuck yeah, we're still beating your team in funds, and we have more experience.
No, he beats him when he joins, he continues to beat him for a while, near the endgame Gerik catches up to him. What you are forgetting is that Colm has the ability to use h4x power weapons a lot more freely than Gerik can without Gerik being a huge detriment to your pocket. So if Colm wants more power, he has it. Here: Colm 20/18 A Moulder, B Neimi: 23.3 Atk Gerik 20/11 A Tethys, B Joshua: 25.5 Atk So your beastly offensive unit is winning by about 2 endgame. When they join. Colm 20/01 A Moulder, B Neimi: 17.2 Atk Gerik 10/--: 14 Atk So now your beastly offensive unit is losing by three. The difference is there and with this you can tell that Colm will be better than Gerik longer than he will be better than him in Atk, granted not by much. But there's something else; AS. This is something that Gerik can never pass Colm in, for example: Colm 20/18: 29.5 Gerik 20/11: 23.5 Gerik is losing by 5.8. Colm 20/1: 19.8 Gerik 10/--: 13 Gerik is losing by 6.8. So what we can conclude from this is that Colm will always be double attacking more than Gerik, and Gerik only starts to do more damage per blow after a while. But the thing is that if Colm needs more power to kill, he just equips a stronger weapon; Gerik has no answer for his AS.
Wow, you just won a bullshit award my friend. The things that Colm steals early game are worthless? The first chapter you have him you get nice weapons to outfit your units, that's not worthless. Actually, I want you to name one thing that Colm steals that is completely worthless instead of just blatantly stating that they are. You've failed to give me facts and proof for your claim. And even if some things are worthless, the promotion items and stat boosters he steals is an insane amount of worth. It allows promoting units and increasing units stats, which is far, far more than what a unit like, say, Gerik does.
Wow dude. Wow. The entire logic behind your claim is that Moulder would want Vanessa more. While this could be true, it doesn't hold any weight in this debate because this debate is about Moulder Supporting Colm. You can't go into a debate against Legault, say Matthew is better, and start debating Matthew, as it doesn't prove anything against your opponents character, or in this case, team.
Hey, yeah, you noticed my typo. Good, that means you could of countered my point, but yeah, you didn't.
There are still chests and things to steal throughout the game, and the times there are not don't make those other times not exist. Obviously we aren't saying that Colm steals every turn every chapter, but instead we stack the things he does steal. Stacking the things he steals shows you how much it is, no where it is, these happen to be times they are not interfering with Colm support Moulder, but they are still there. So Colm and Moulder can get to an A support easy and Colm can steal tons without it being much of a problem. That's all that matters, not "Well Colm isn't stealing on this chapter so he sucks". That's not even true, because he has offensive abilities too thanks to lolwtf AS.
Perhaps I want a better Cormag and Duessel that has use? What you get on Eirika route is a earlier joining Gerik (although not by much, only 2 chapters), and a Dancer that it doesn't even matter she joins sooner because her stats are moot. I'd prefer the weapons that you get on Ephraim's route compared to Eirika's route too, such as the Dragon Shield and Duessel's silver weapons. So yeah, enlighten me why going on Eirika Route is so much better, or hell, go ahead and make your own comparison of our teams if they go on Eirika route.
Surely it's possible, but again, that means he has to follow Tethys around detracting from his versatility making him that much worse. Because Colm and Moulder have an A at this time Colm and Moulder can be three squares apart, giving Colm a lot more versatility in his offense, letting him safely blow Gerik out of the water offensively. I'd much rather just go slow paced than to have Gerik lack experience and combative usefulness for the sake of a support. And it would only be logical for you to want that too, because if not ... he lacks in experience and combative usefulness.
Uhhh, no. Vanessa can just as easily support Lute instead of getting an A with Moulder, and then Neimi could support Artur, who is getting a B with Lute. And then assuming they are detrimental, well tough shit for us, right? It has to be really hard for us to win if our team is being detrimental in that field. Point is that we are debating (we, not so much you) with that in mind, and it's only your fault if you fail to mention it properly. But alas, the really aren't hurting the team support wise as you can easily get full supports still.
Thanks for giving us yet another reason why Gerik is bad: HE takes tons of Exp from everyone else to get to a level where he's even usable. Now look at this, when Colm joins he has one of the best offenses on your team. When Gerik joins he is underpar. Somebody is going to have to kill more to become usable.
I hat when people go "lolfail" with logic is horrible. Yes, I'm looking at you Soren. He takes Staffs from the rest of the team? Dude, FOR HALF OF THE GAME he is your only staff user. Who he takes staffs from is nothing more than his own pocket. And yeah, those staffs he is using are actually helpful at time and should be taken into consideration. And there is another way he can gain experience; getting targeted. That safely sets 99 to 100. Now he needs them "to be good"? Dude, it's one experience point, it's not making or breaking anything, he's good without, but it's only logical to consider that there will be times that using a different staff than heal will be useful. lolfail
I don't know, but 33 more experience at the cost of a 60 G does not sound like a bad deal, especially when it clarifies that you won't be dying.
No, our team is still helping the moneys more than not, and what team isn't here? Gerik and Tethys, all they do is hurt the funds rank. So should Gerik be able to use anything more than an Iron Sword? Not by your logic, no. Because we're apparently not aloud to use anything other than shit, even if it increases our teams ability.
No, it's not. We're debating about Moulder, Colm, Geirk, and Tethys. I'll just pretend what you said was a joke to try and brush off the reason you didn't have a counter.
But it does help our team. w1n Oh, and Torch Staff.
... no actually. We're giving him a Silver Blade. Which makes their AS equal (remember the "he can equip weapons to get more Atk, but Gerik can't equip weapons to get more AS?" arguement?), and Colm still has 6.7 more Eva than him. What the hell are you talking about?
He gets hit less than half as much as Gerik at most. Gerik only has 3 more Def, don't bullshit. You're just playing off the stereotypical "Thieves lack in offense and defense", if you actually looked a numbers it's clear who is superior. And against Magical units, be them common or not, Colm wtfraepz Gerik. |
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.:FES:. Formerly: Juggernaut, FireBane 100% of BwdYetis don't care about your percentages. | |
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| AdamNW | Jul 6 2007, 10:05 PM Post #8 |
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Needs moar Sety
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*spends next to no time on this post*
The least you coulda done is respond with a smartass comment </3
Will anyone else really be using them? One 1 person capable of using Axes (Franz) is a better unit then Gerik, and his Con (going into Gknight) is less then Gerik, not to mention his mov suffers. Most other axe users either aren't worth it, or are too slow/can't hit. And when other swordusers use the heavy swords, their AS and Avo suffers (COLM)
Seeing as no one else should really be using the heavy swords, yeah.
What's your point? Moulder still isn't getting EXP that fast.
 And you act as though Natasha won't be using the Barrier and Torch staves either...
Or units w/ heal staves that actually have enough magic to heal someone.
I like how you say that othin didn't support his reasoning, then you go right ahead and do the same thing. Hypocrite.
Correction. COLM is good on funds. Moulder doesn't do shit to help you with the moneyz. Explain to me how your team is good with funds when you have a Magic user, possibly the biggest eater of moneyz evar. Tethys dun do jack to your funds. Neutral > Negative.
No. Moulder takes away from your funds WAY more then Gerik. How does your team help funds when one half takes away more then anyone else? 
What? How is colm not taking away from funds as much as Gerik when they use the same weapon? It can't be from the thieving shit, because Colm doesn't benefit from everything he steals (he doesn't even steal his promo item in eirika's path)
So in other words, Colm is a spoiled bitch now? But we already have Clarine
The only thing I want to know here is why you didn't include the weapon he has equipped when he starts. Sure, you didn't do that for colm, but it's not like you'll be unequipping Gerik's weapons in that chapter. wait, how does moulder already have his A with colm?
You seem to exclude the fact that Colm's con sucks dick. He can't lift anything to beat Gerik's steel blade without losing AS. If he uses the steel blade, his AS falls below Gerik's. Gerik will NEVER be weighed down starting at promotion (lol devil axe), and is only weighed down by ONE weapon when he starts (which only makes him lose 1 AS). There's no answer for Colm's shitty con, which stays the same. Gerik's speed actually increases. Before you go "use an iron sword," Gerik ties with a SLIM SWORD. That reminds me:
Low tier right? Marisa = Low tier. Marisa can triangle with Tethys and Gerik Here are Marisa's 20/10 SM stats w/ stat boosters, B gerik, B tethys, and a Shamshir: HP: 52 ( )Mt: 27.2 Hit: 161.1 (she dun need a skill book )Crit: 73.65 (!!!) Avo: 97.6 AS: 27.3 (only 2 less then Colm? )CEV: 33 Def: 13.6 Res: 14 I think I got everything... omargod marisa dun suck Now let's go to Gerik and Tethys, with the battle stats you gave them (level and everything) with B marisa. Gerik ((LV31, Hero, A Tethys, B Marisa)) Atk: 24.5 Hit: 65 Crit: 31.5 AS: 21 HP: 54 Def: 22 Res: 14 Avo: 81 Ddg: 33.7 Tethys ((LV18, Dancer, A Gerik, B Tethys)) Atk: --- Hit: --- Crit: --- AS: 23.9 HP: 32.4 Def: 12.1 Res: 18.8 Avo: 96.4 Ddg: 37.2 Just for kicks, lets see what the battle stats of Gerik AND tethys are when they get attacked by the DK: DK v Gerik (Ravager) Atk: 31 Hit: 54 (44 w/ garm) Crit: 0 DK vs Tethys (Demon Light) Atk: 29.2 Hit: 24 Crit: 0 Now lets look at Gerik w/ Ahudlama/Garm (assuming DK has ravager) Atk: 38 | 44 x2 Hit: 99 | 89 Crit: 11 | 11 yeah yeah, I know "WTF is he doing with Garm?!" Spam his steel axes for 4 WEXP a kill, or even the Devil Axe for 16 a kill here's the scenario: Gerik uses Garm to do 88 damage on his turn, and the DK misses. Tethys dances, and Gerik owns his ass. Now, let's go with Gerik and Ahudlama. He hits, the DK hits. Tethys dances, and Gerik uses an Elixer. The DK attacks tethys and misses (or hits, it dun matter). Gerik takes another round for the kill. Colm ya say? Why is Colm attacking when Moulder can?
But if Mattew > Legault, Legault shouldn't be used, thus a point against legault. In the same sense, The fact that moulder and colm A support shouldn't exist is a point against them. That's whats so good about Tethys and Gerik, it should exist, which is a point for our team.
No. A unit who has more levels on your team (COLM) will take more kills to level up whereas Gerik will take less. Otherwise, Nino wouldn't be a EXP goddess
Natasha joins 4 chapters after Moulder. The game isn't 8 chapters long
Moulder has a base avo of 18 and def of 2. Why the hell is he getting targeted?
At no point should more then 14 pts of HP need to be healed that early in the game.
33 exp? I think you mean 11 EXP or 180 g...
No. Colm helps funds. Moulder definately hurts funds. Tethys doesn't do shit to funds. And, you can't say that Colm doesn't hurt funds if he is a fighter. If he isn't a fighter, he isn't in need of supports, which in turn makes this team gay. We don't like gay, useless teams.
it's your point, don't act retarded The point was about Moulder's EXP rates. Colm doesn't help Moulder's EXP ranks. Therefore, bringing up the fact that Colm can see in the fog doesn't help Moulder any. Sure, it applies to your team as a whole, but not to moulder alone. Oh, and Colm w/ torch > Torch staff, which means Moulder isn't needed in FoW (:
I was under the assumption that you could read. I guess I was wrong. Colm w/ steel blade = goodbye EVA lead. Colm w/ Silver blade means that the AS is equal, as with the pow (I think...)
Same logix: 20/20 stats, be them common or not, Nino wtfreapz Pent. |: |
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| Reikken | Jul 6 2007, 11:32 PM Post #9 |
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The probelm is that they cost money. Gerik is already depleting the team's money. Now he's going to eat away at it even more? Colm is actually increasing the team's moneys by a huge amount. So much that even if he and Moulder both use expensive weapons constantly, they're still adding the the team's money rather than depleting it like Gerik is, even with using only Iron weapons. Thieves >>>>>
Perhaps not as fast as Colm, but he gets it plenty fast enough. He's much better off than Gerik, at least. Joining underleveled ftl.
Okay? Just use some of that money Colm gets to buy moar if you need to.
Or I could just use Mend because I have Colm. Pls. Moulder w/ Mend > anyone with Heal. And it gives moar exp ftw.
Only, this is Colm and Moulder as a team. Colm can help Moulder out like that. And any excess (and there's a ton of it) helps the rest of the team. wtf-uber-massive positive + negative >>>>>> negative + neutral
Because the other half is WTFH4X with adding to funds. Come on; this isn't that hard.
It's because Colm adds to your funds. Gerik does not.
No we don't. This is FE8, foo'. Not FE6. And yes, Colm can use as much money as he wants and still rape in funds.
119 turns. If it isn't already at A, it will really soon. And it doesn't really matter either way. 1 atk, onoz.
No, it doesn't. Gerik starts with 6 more con and 7 less AS. Colm isn't losing AS. Even if he somehow was losing AS at some point, it would only be by 1. So, oshit1AS. Like that's ever going to matter. Even if that 1 AS actually matters somehow, that means Gerik is borderline, so due to stats being random, he has about a 40% chance of not having enough spd to double. Colm can just use a lighter weapon.
Too bad con doesn't add to spd. Spd lead >>>>>>> con lead.
lol, wtf? COLM gets those stat boosters, not Gerik. This is our team's advantage, not yours.
This isn't the same at all. Would other characters be better off if they got to have an A with Moulder or Colm? Maybe, but without them, they don't even get a B; they don't get the support at all. So them being there is still making your team better off, not worse.
Yes, Gerik gains levels slightly faster when he first joins. Your point? It still settles out with Colm having a huge level lead since he can be on a higher level and still gain more exp. And wtf does Nino have to do with this?
Eh, whatever. The main point still stands. Using a staff to help the team >>>>> not using it. It's not doing you any good just sitting there.
I dunno. He shouldn't be. Just use a staff that gives more exp.
Maybe for the first 2 chapters. After that, no.
Whatever. I'm not concerned at all about Moulder using more money when his partner is Colm.
Colm's help to funds far outweighs any hurting of funds he or Moulder does. Team COLMOULDER is still way way in the positive on funds while your team is in the negative.
Colm w/ Torch is indeed > Torch staff, but it doesn't render Torch completely useless as Torch can light up areas where Colm is not there, since it's ranged.
That's not helping you any. Tying a thief in combat skillz = loss, since the thief has thief utility, and you have nothing else. But then, this isn't even a tie. It's even worse for Gerik since Colm can use a ligher weapon for the fast enemies. Gerik just has to not double.
wtf @ the idea that that's possibly the same logic Gerik is worse against magic units, which do indeed exist. Having to avoid them to avoid this disadvantage would also make him worse. Getting Nino to 20/20 rapes the rest of your team's exp and rapes your tactics rank. ...I can't even draw a counter parallel or whatever the heck it is because these two things aren't even related at all. It's like comparing a black hole to a pencil or something. |
| NP: Wind Waker, Clannad, Ever17, Shoddy Battle, Brawl (Wi-Fi) | |
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| +Ema Skye | Jul 7 2007, 09:17 PM Post #10 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Vote now. |
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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12:40 AM Nov 28
