Inui vs Linoud

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Inui vs Linoud
Topic Started: Jul 9 2007, 10:09 PM (356 Views)
+Ema Skye	Jul 9 2007, 10:09 PM Post #1
Snackoos = <3. It's science! Posts: 20,957 Group: Advisor Member #40 Joined: June 9, 2005	go fighting irish
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+Ema Skye	Jul 9 2007, 11:06 PM Post #2
Snackoos = <3. It's science! Posts: 20,957 Group: Advisor Member #40 Joined: June 9, 2005	Both of these units join in Lyn's mode, and if you're using Sain and Erk both on the same playthrough, Sain is going to have a small level lead until Erk gets staves to have another EXP pool to pull from. Both of them rape Lyn's mode easily, gaining about a level per chapter, so let's see how Erk is in Chapter 14 of HHM... Erk: Level 10 Mage HP: 22.8 MAG: 8.6 SKL: 9.6 SPD: 11.5 LUK: 5.7 DEF: 3.8 RES: 7.6 CON: 5 AID: 4 MOV: 5 Affinity: Thunder Thunder, Fire Okay, so Erk is pretty much one of your best offensive units already. The Cavaliers, Brigands, and Nomads in this chapter have 6-8 SPD, and he's pretty much doubling them all if you trade him a Fire tome, which is recommended so he can double the slightly faster enemies. Due to enemy RES sucking, he's definitely one-rounding if he doubles with Thunder, and most likely one-rounding or severely weakening when he doubles with Fire. What a beast. Erk will gain one level before Sain joins, and he can join as a level 11 Cavalier according to CATS' arguement for Kent and Lyn's mode giving nice EXP and lolLundgren... Level 11 Erk HP: 23.5 MAG: 8.6 SKL: 10.0 SPD: 12.0 LUK: 6.0 DEF: 3.8 RES: 7.6 C Priscilla is hit sometime this chapter Level 11 Sain HP: 27.0 STR: 14.0 SKL: 7.5 SPD: 10.0 LUK: 7.5 DEF: 8.0 RES: 2.0 Offense: Erk has permanent 1~2 range and can use Thunder, which is better than anything Sain can use right now. He has 2 more SPD, and thus actually doubles those 8 SPD units running around. Sain only doubles those trashy 6 SPD Brigands and the super weighed down enemies and armoured enemies everyone else doubles. His Hit is also balls, even though he has two weapons. And he's only going to be getting 7 Hit from Kent and that's it for the whole game. Sucks to be him when it comes to Hit and supports in general. Defense: Erk has more Evd and doesn't take counters. Winnar = Erk. Let's see how Erk is doing in the lategame... Erk: Level 20/10 Sage HP: 39.2 MAG: 17.2 SKL: 17.2 SPD: 21.0 LUK: 11.4 DEF: 10.6 RES: 18.2 CON: 6 AID: 5 MOV: 6 S Anima, C Staves A Priscilla, B Pent: 1 Atk, 3 Def/Res, 12 Hit, 17 Evd, 20 Crit, 25 Crit Evd So, how's he doing exactly? Offense: He's got 17 MAG with a +1 from his supports, and can use the Thunder tome with no Atk Spd loss. With 21 Atk Spd, he's a doubling machine, and he's not missing thanks to his own natural Hit and his +12 from supports. With his own Crit score being 13, and then Thunder giving 5 more, and his supports giving 20 more, he's going to have 38 Crit, which is h4x in a game where almost every enemy has 0 LUK. Every time he attacks, he has a 38% chance to OHKO and a >50% chance to one-round an enemy he can't normally, such as a General or a Wyvern Lord. His supports are also making Priscilla's offense better by giving her 1 Atk and 15 Crit, and he's giving Pent 5 Crit to add on to his good offense. Defense: He's a really durable Sage, that's for sure. He's got great HP for his class, and his supports make him almost tanky. 13.6 DEF + 21.2 RES = pretty solid. And then he's got a really good 36.4 Crit Evd which negates all enemy Crit besides one with a Killer weapon and/or a class bonus, and their Crit will still be tiny. In addition to his defenses, he's got 70.4 Evd, which is nothing to laugh at. Yeah, he's not dying. Utility: By now, he'll have a C in staves or be damn close to it, which allows him to use staves like Mend and Unlock to further his usefulness and make him gain more EXP. Gaining EXP without taking it from others is really good since other units get to kill and he boosts the EXP rank without any cost, so him using staves a lot is a good idea. Hmm. What's Sain doing that's better than that? He sucks because he's slower and doesn't get to use the h4x Thunder tome and staves. Oh, and... ...bitch.
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Linoud	Jul 12 2007, 05:01 PM Post #3
Knight of Seven Posts: 4,051 Group: Veteran Member #45 Joined: June 9, 2005	Lucas Okay, so Erk is pretty much one of your best offensive units already. The Cavaliers, Brigands, and Nomads in this chapter have 6-8 SPD, and he's pretty much doubling them all if you trade him a Fire tome, which is recommended so he can double the slightly faster enemies. Due to enemy RES sucking, he's definitely one-rounding if he doubles with Thunder, and most likely one-rounding or severely weakening when he doubles with Fire. What a beast. Alright, the enemies are susceptiable to Erk's attacks, but, whenever I play, Erk decides to either be a complete rambo and run AWAY from my units, including Serra (But who's not bloody likely to run? >_>) When he does run away from my units, he runs into a swarm of cavaliers, whom whilst he can take out one or two, they usually kill him within a turn or two. But, whilst he is pretty useful, he's more squishy on this chapter than most of your units. Erk: Level 10 Mage HP: 22.8 MAG: 8.6 SKL: 9.6 SPD: 11.5 LUK: 5.7 DEF: 3.8 RES: 7.6 CON: 5 AID: 4 MOV: 5 Affinity: Thunder Thunder, Even if we assume he's level 10, with these averages, particularly in Def and HP, should he be hit twice by any of the units, he'll die. :\| Oh and to get your first Fire tome to trade to Erk, which will not occur for the majority of the chapter, you need to go to the Vendor in the south of the map to purchase it, which is best done by your higher Movement units, your Cavaliers/Marcus. This is one of the reasons why they're highly useful. Lucas C Priscilla is hit sometime this chapter To do this, it requires Erk and Priscilla to be right next to each other for 22 turns in 3 chapters. Priscilla's movement will be wasted if she has to be next to Erk every turn, is she not supposed to be doing her job and healing? Or is her job to just boost Erk and let your other units die. :\| They won't likely get this, since a normal person would have Priscilla doing her job. Lucas Offense: Erk has permanent 1~2 range and can use Thunder, which is better than anything Sain can use right now. He has 2 more SPD, and thus actually doubles those 8 SPD units running around. If your having Erk use his better weapon, "Thunder", he won't be doubling those units, as his speed is only 3 more than them. :\| Lucas Sain only doubles those trashy 6 SPD Brigands and the super weighed down enemies and armoured enemies everyone else doubles. His Hit is also balls, even though he has two weapons. And he's only going to be getting 7 Hit from Kent and that's it for the whole game. Sucks to be him when it comes to Hit and supports in general. I recall you being able to support Fiora, Kent and Sain, making them quite effective. Sain with an A Kent gets him 7 more Crit too, and him and Kent have one of the faster supports in this game. Kent has the godly Anima affinity, which means from an A Kent, Sain gets: Pow: 3 Def: 1 Hit: 7 Avoid: 7 Crit: 7 and C.Eva: 15 With a B Fiora, he gets: Pow: 2 Def: 0 Hit: 10 Avoid: 0 Crit: 10 and C.Eva: 10 Sain's supports aren't that sucky now are they? They also let the people he's supporting with do their jobs, unlike a certain Erk and Priscilla. Quote: Defense: Erk has more Evd and doesn't take counters. Winnar = Erk. Erk also has half the amount of Def as Sain at this time, and Sain only has 2 less speed. He won't be getting doubled really, and his STR is pretty damn valuable in the early-game. :\| Onto the late game with Sain now, him and his womanizing ways. Sain: Level 20/10 Paladin HP: 43.4 STR: 24.3 SKL: 14.8 SPD: 18.2 LUK: 13.8 DEF: 13.6 RES: 6.6 CON: 11 AID: 14 MOV: 8 S Lances, A Swords, D Axes A Kent, B Fiora: 5 Atk, 1 Def/Res, 17 Hit, 7 Evd, 17 Crit, 25 Crit Evd Offense-wise? Sain has 24 STR + 5 from his supports. Thats 29 STR. That's pretty damn impressive, and with the S in lances, his hit + crit go up +5. He also controls the weapon triangle, giving him further attack power if needed. His AS isn't bad either, he'll be doubling everything save the odd Sword Master. He can use the Silver Lance without AS loss too, and if we want cost efficiency, we can give him an iron lance anyway, because with his high STR and ability to double everything save the odd SM, which Erk also can't double, Sain's going to be killing things anyway, if we want to give him the extra power from a silver lance, which is 14.. That's 29 + 14 = 43, I find that insanely high myself. He'll have 24 Crit with his supports, which is more power to him. If he uses Lances though, that's 29 Crit. Even without criticalling, he'll be one rounding everything save the odd SM. 29 Crit just means he has a 29% chance to OHKO, and if he uses a short-spear, he gains 1 - 2 range. He gives his supports nice bonuses, such as +2 ATK to Fiora and 10 Crit/Crit Ev, and 10 Hit. Kent gets Pow: 3 Def: 1 Hit: 7 Avoid: 7 Crit: 7 and C.Eva: 15 from their support. Defense: Sain's not getting doubled, and has 14.6 def and 7.7 Res, With 43.4 HP. 13.8 + 25 = 38.8 Crit Evade, which like Marcus said: "negates all enemy Crit besides one with a Killer weapon and/or a class bonus, and their Crit will still be tiny." He has 57.2 evade, which is pretty good, and if he has WTA he'll take 15% from the enemy hit, and since he has Axes, Lances and Swords, it's likely he will have WTA. Utility: Sain's high movement + aid are highly useful for rescuing, getting units around the map, and for sending to the stores. Lucas Hmm. What's Sain doing that's better than that? He sucks because he's slower and doesn't get to use the h4x Thunder tome and staves. Sain's not that much slower, he'll still be doubling most enemies. What good old Sain is doing better is rescuing, moving, and killing. :D As for those pictures, Erk looks girly in the last one. Sain's STR > You. Sain and Kent's awesomeness. Modernised?! ..bitch.



+Ema Skye	Jul 14 2007, 11:11 PM Post #4
Snackoos = <3. It's science! Posts: 20,957 Group: Advisor Member #40 Joined: June 9, 2005	Quote: Alright, the enemies are susceptiable to Erk's attacks, but, whenever I play, Erk decides to either be a complete rambo and run AWAY from my units, including Serra (But who's not bloody likely to run? >_>) When he does run away from my units, he runs into a swarm of cavaliers, whom whilst he can take out one or two, they usually kill him within a turn or two. But, whilst he is pretty useful, he's more squishy on this chapter than most of your units. You can easily have Lowen or Marcus rescue him before he even attacks that armour knight, so this isn't an issue. He's not less durable than anyone. He doesn't ever have to take counters and has decent Evd. Quote: Erk: Level 10 Mage HP: 22.8 MAG: 8.6 SKL: 9.6 SPD: 11.5 LUK: 5.7 DEF: 3.8 RES: 7.6 CON: 5 AID: 4 MOV: 5 Affinity: Thunder Thunder, Even if we assume he's level 10, with these averages, particularly in Def and HP, should he be hit twice by any of the units, he'll die. :\| Oh and to get your first Fire tome to trade to Erk, which will not occur for the majority of the chapter, you need to go to the Vendor in the south of the map to purchase it, which is best done by your higher Movement units, your Cavaliers/Marcus. This is one of the reasons why they're highly useful. So, you reposted some stats I used, and then said he's not durable. He just doesn't take counters, and he's fine. If you're not attacked, you're not dying. Later on, once he gets supports and some more Spd and Luk, he'll be able to frontline. Quote: If your having Erk use his better weapon, "Thunder", he won't be doubling those units, as his speed is only 3 more than them. :\| Not all of them have 7+ Spd. Even without doubling the enemies, he's dealing more damage than everyone but Marcus in his single blow due to Thunder's Mt and enemy Res being lol worthy. He doesn't have to double to outperform most of the team already, but he'll be doubling consistently before the others, including Sain. Quote: I recall you being able to support Fiora, Kent and Sain, making them quite effective. Sain with an A Kent gets him 7 more Crit too, and him and Kent have one of the faster supports in this game. Kent has the godly Anima affinity, which means from an A Kent, Sain gets: Pow: 3 Def: 1 Hit: 7 Avoid: 7 Crit: 7 and C.Eva: 15 With a B Fiora, he gets: Pow: 2 Def: 0 Hit: 10 Avoid: 0 Crit: 10 and C.Eva: 10 Sain's supports aren't that sucky now are they? They also let the people he's supporting with do their jobs, unlike a certain Erk and Priscilla. Fiora joins like this in Chapter 19: HP: 21 STR: 8 SKL: 11 SPD: 13 LUK: 6 DEF: 6 RES: 7 CON: 5 AID: 15 MOV: 7 Nah, I'm not going to raise this unit if it joins like this at this point in the game. Her 20/20 STR is only 20.8 and she doesn't have axes or high Con to use h4x weapons, so she's always going to suck at offense unless she's fighting a mage or babied with killer weapons or something gay. Anima is indeed a godly affinity. It's a godly affinity that gets all of its good bonuses besides Atk canceled out by the shitty Wind affinity Sain has. Quote: Erk also has half the amount of Def as Sain at this time, and Sain only has 2 less speed. He won't be getting doubled really, and his STR is pretty damn valuable in the early-game. :\| Eh? That SPD is allowing Erk to double those common 8 SPD enemies in this chapter, while Sain doesn't. Quote: Onto the late game with Sain now, him and his womanizing ways. Sain: Level 20/10 Paladin HP: 43.4 STR: 24.3 SKL: 14.8 SPD: 18.2 LUK: 13.8 DEF: 13.6 RES: 6.6 CON: 11 AID: 14 MOV: 8 S Lances, A Swords, D Axes A Kent, B Fiora: 5 Atk, 1 Def/Res, 17 Hit, 7 Evd, 17 Crit, 25 Crit Evd Offense-wise? Sain has 24 STR + 5 from his supports. Thats 29 STR. That's pretty damn impressive, and with the S in lances, his hit + crit go up +5. He also controls the weapon triangle, giving him further attack power if needed. His AS isn't bad either, he'll be doubling everything save the odd Sword Master. He can use the Silver Lance without AS loss too, and if we want cost efficiency, we can give him an iron lance anyway, because with his high STR and ability to double everything save the odd SM, which Erk also can't double, Sain's going to be killing things anyway, if we want to give him the extra power from a silver lance, which is 14.. That's 29 + 14 = 43, I find that insanely high myself. He'll have 24 Crit with his supports, which is more power to him. If he uses Lances though, that's 29 Crit. Even without criticalling, he'll be one rounding everything save the odd SM. 29 Crit just means he has a 29% chance to OHKO, and if he uses a short-spear, he gains 1 - 2 range. He gives his supports nice bonuses, such as +2 ATK to Fiora and 10 Crit/Crit Ev, and 10 Hit. Kent gets Pow: 3 Def: 1 Hit: 7 Avoid: 7 Crit: 7 and C.Eva: 15 from their support. Defense: Sain's not getting doubled, and has 14.6 def and 7.7 Res, With 43.4 HP. 13.8 + 25 = 38.8 Crit Evade, which like Marcus said: "negates all enemy Crit besides one with a Killer weapon and/or a class bonus, and their Crit will still be tiny." He has 57.2 evade, which is pretty good, and if he has WTA he'll take 15% from the enemy hit, and since he has Axes, Lances and Swords, it's likely he will have WTA. Utility: Sain's high movement + aid are highly useful for rescuing, getting units around the map, and for sending to the stores. All's you did was copy my format and plug Sain stuff in. However, it looks like Erk's parameters are better, and his supports are more guaranteed; his second partner is amazing, unlike the mediocre Fiora. Quote: He has 57.2 evade, which is pretty good, and if he has WTA he'll take 15% from the enemy hit, and since he has Axes, Lances and Swords, it's likely he will have WTA. In addition to his defenses, he's got 70.4 Evd, which is nothing to laugh at. Yeah, he's not dying. Erk's Evd >> Sain's. Quote: he'll be doubling everything save the odd Sword Master He's not doubling Nomad Troopers, Valkyries, Heroes, Swordmasters, and some bosses. He's actually not even doubling Mercenaries... Erk doubles all of those things besides Swordmasters, though. Quote: Sain's not that much slower, he'll still be doubling most enemies. What good old Sain is doing better is rescuing, moving, and killing. :D Sain has 3 less Spd at 20/10, and Erk has 10% more growth, so this just bigger. Erk is much faster. He doubles those pesky 15-17 Atk Spd Mercenaries, Nomad Troopers, and such that Sain does not. How is Sain better at killing? He's not doubling as much and has less Hit. lol @ comparing rescuing to healing Staves >>>>>>>> AID.
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Linoud	Jul 17 2007, 08:15 PM Post #5
Knight of Seven Posts: 4,051 Group: Veteran Member #45 Joined: June 9, 2005	Linoud Alright, the enemies are susceptiable to Erk's attacks, but, whenever I play, Erk decides to either be a complete rambo and run AWAY from my units, including Serra (But who's not bloody likely to run? >_>) When he does run away from my units, he runs into a swarm of cavaliers, whom whilst he can take out one or two, they usually kill him within a turn or two. But, whilst he is pretty useful, he's more squishy on this chapter than most of your units. Lucas You can easily have Lowen or Marcus rescue him before he even attacks that armour knight, so this isn't an issue. He's not less durable than anyone. He doesn't ever have to take counters and has decent Evd. Durable =/= Squishy. Durable = Oswin. Lucas Linoud Erk: Level 10 Mage HP: 22.8 MAG: 8.6 SKL: 9.6 SPD: 11.5 LUK: 5.7 DEF: 3.8 RES: 7.6 CON: 5 AID: 4 MOV: 5 Affinity: Thunder Thunder, Even if we assume he's level 10, with these averages, particularly in Def and HP, should he be hit twice by any of the units, he'll die. :\| Oh and to get your first Fire tome to trade to Erk, which will not occur for the majority of the chapter, you need to go to the Vendor in the south of the map to purchase it, which is best done by your higher Movement units, your Cavaliers/Marcus. This is one of the reasons why they're highly useful. So, you reposted some stats I used, and then said he's not durable. He just doesn't take counters, and he's fine. If you're not attacked, you're not dying. Later on, once he gets supports and some more Spd and Luk, he'll be able to front line. Pretty much, at this stage of the game, he aint durable, and IIRC the majority of units are Physical attackers, especially in the early game, If you call 22.8hp, and 3.8 def at this stage of the game durable, your easily impressed. Why not take a look at Sain's stats when he rejoins, and here's Erk's at the same level too. Level 11 Erk HP: 23.5 MAG: 8.6 SKL: 10.0 SPD: 12.0 LUK: 6.0 DEF: 3.8 RES: 7.6 C Priscilla is hit sometime this chapter Level 11 Sain HP: 27.0 STR: 14.0 SKL: 7.5 SPD: 10.0 LUK: 7.5 DEF: 8.0 RES: 2.0 I'm afraid Erk isn't as durable as you'd like to think, Sain is more durable. Lucas Not all of them have 7+ Spd. Even without doubling the enemies, he's dealing more damage than everyone but Marcus in his single blow due to Thunder's Mt and enemy Res being lol worthy. He doesn't have to double to outperform most of the team already, but he'll be doubling consistently before the others, including Sain. Yeah, he'll need to be doubling consistently to make up for his Mag stat. :\| Lucas Linoud I recall you being able to support Fiora, Kent and Sain, making them quite effective. Sain with an A Kent gets him 7 more Crit too, and him and Kent have one of the faster supports in this game. Kent has the godly Anima affinity, which means from an A Kent, Sain gets: Pow: 3 Def: 1 Hit: 7 Avoid: 7 Crit: 7 and C.Eva: 15 With a B Fiora, he gets: Pow: 2 Def: 0 Hit: 10 Avoid: 0 Crit: 10 and C.Eva: 10 Sain's supports aren't that sucky now are they? They also let the people he's supporting with do their jobs, unlike a certain Erk and Priscilla. Fiora joins like this in Chapter 19: HP: 21 STR: 8 SKL: 11 SPD: 13 LUK: 6 DEF: 6 RES: 7 CON: 5 AID: 15 MOV: 7 Nah, I'm not going to raise this unit if it joins like this at this point in the game. Her 20/20 STR is only 20.8 and she doesn't have axes or high Con to use h4x weapons, so she's always going to suck at offense unless she's fighting a mage or babied with killer weapons or something gay. Florina only has 21.4 Str at 20/20, then she looses to Fiora in everything else save Luck and a minor victory in SPD. (By Minor I mean .3) By your logic, Florina is going to suck more. Because she apparently always has 1 Less Con than Fiora, which cancels out her minor .3 Victory in SPD. Fiora will be an asset to the EXP rank too. Lucas Linoud Erk also has half the amount of Def as Sain at this time, and Sain only has 2 less speed. He won't be getting doubled really, and his STR is pretty damn valuable in the early-game. :\| Eh? That SPD is allowing Erk to double those common 8 SPD enemies in this chapter, while Sain doesn't. Level 11 Erk HP: 23.5 MAG: 8.6 SKL: 10.0 SPD: 12.0 LUK: 6.0 DEF: 3.8 RES: 7.6 Level 11 Sain HP: 27.0 STR: 14.0 SKL: 7.5 SPD: 10.0 LUK: 7.5 DEF: 8.0 RES: 2.0 With 8.6 Mag, he better be doubling, nothing else to be said really. At the same level, Sain's got a natural 5.4 attack advantage. Lucas Linoud Onto the late game with Sain now, him and his womanizing ways. Sain: Level 20/10 Paladin HP: 43.4 STR: 24.3 SKL: 14.8 SPD: 18.2 LUK: 13.8 DEF: 13.6 RES: 6.6 CON: 11 AID: 14 MOV: 8 S Lances, A Swords, D Axes A Kent, B Fiora: 5 Atk, 1 Def/Res, 17 Hit, 7 Evd, 17 Crit, 25 Crit Evd Offense-wise? Sain has 24 STR + 5 from his supports. Thats 29 STR. That's pretty damn impressive, and with the S in lances, his hit + crit go up +5. He also controls the weapon triangle, giving him further attack power if needed. His AS isn't bad either, he'll be doubling everything save the odd Sword Master. He can use the Silver Lance without AS loss too, and if we want cost efficiency, we can give him an iron lance anyway, because with his high STR and ability to double everything save the odd SM, which Erk also can't double, Sain's going to be killing things anyway, if we want to give him the extra power from a silver lance, which is 14.. That's 29 + 14 = 43, I find that insanely high myself. He'll have 24 Crit with his supports, which is more power to him. If he uses Lances though, that's 29 Crit. Even without criticalling, he'll be one rounding everything save the odd SM. 29 Crit just means he has a 29% chance to OHKO, and if he uses a short-spear, he gains 1 - 2 range. He gives his supports nice bonuses, such as +2 ATK to Fiora and 10 Crit/Crit Ev, and 10 Hit. Kent gets Pow: 3 Def: 1 Hit: 7 Avoid: 7 Crit: 7 and C.Eva: 15 from their support. Defense: Sain's not getting doubled, and has 14.6 def and 7.7 Res, With 43.4 HP. 13.8 + 25 = 38.8 Crit Evade, which like Marcus said: "negates all enemy Crit besides one with a Killer weapon and/or a class bonus, and their Crit will still be tiny." He has 57.2 evade, which is pretty good, and if he has WTA he'll take 15% from the enemy hit, and since he has Axes, Lances and Swords, it's likely he will have WTA. Utility: Sain's high movement + aid are highly useful for rescuing, getting units around the map, and for sending to the stores. All's you did was copy my format and plug Sain stuff in. However, it looks like Erk's parameters are better, and his supports are more guaranteed; his second partner is amazing, unlike the mediocre Fiora. Correct. Using YOUR format, I proved why Sain is a great unit. Their Parameters are both pretty good, but Erk's really aren't better. Defense-wise, he has more Crit-evade than Erk, and if we factor in the extra 15% from WTA, he'll have 72.2 Evade. Lucas which is nothing to laugh at. Yeah, he's not dying. So he can have more evade than Erk too, Yeah. Sain is NOT dying. So Sain's EVD >> Erk's. Lucas Linoud he'll be doubling everything save the odd Sword Master He's not doubling Nomad Troopers, Valkyries, Heroes, Swordmasters, and some bosses. He's actually not even doubling Mercenaries... Erk doubles all of those things besides Swordmasters, though. Bad information on my part I think, but Erk requires to double to do damage/kill these, whilst Sain deals more damage in his hits. But Sain won't be doubled either, mrite? Linoud What good old Sain is doing better is rescuing, moving, and killing. :D Let me add on Evading better to that list too. Seeing as he can have more than Erk. Lucas Sain has 3 less Spd at 20/10, and Erk has 10% more growth, so this just bigger. Erk is much faster. He doubles those pesky 15-17 Atk Spd Mercenaries, Nomad Troopers, and such that Sain does not. How is Sain better at killing? He's not doubling as much and has less Hit. Sain's 43 Attack > Erk's 26 Attack. :\| As you can see, Sain won't need to double to inflict serious damage/kill his enemies. And he hardly has less hit if he'll more often than not have the WTA. And yeah. Staves are great. <3 But being able to move around maps faster, Rescuing units so they don't NEED healing in the first place, and bringing other slower moving units to the front is probably more useful, doncha think?



+Ema Skye	Jul 18 2007, 01:15 PM Post #6
Snackoos = <3. It's science! Posts: 20,957 Group: Advisor Member #40 Joined: June 9, 2005	Quote: Durable =/= Squishy. Durable = Oswin. Pretty much, at this stage of the game, he aint durable, and IIRC the majority of units are Physical attackers, especially in the early game, If you call 22.8hp, and 3.8 def at this stage of the game durable, your easily impressed. Why not take a look at Sain's stats when he rejoins, and here's Erk's at the same level too. Level 11 Erk HP: 23.5 MAG: 8.6 SKL: 10.0 SPD: 12.0 LUK: 6.0 DEF: 3.8 RES: 7.6 C Priscilla is hit sometime this chapter Level 11 Sain HP: 27.0 STR: 14.0 SKL: 7.5 SPD: 10.0 LUK: 7.5 DEF: 8.0 RES: 2.0 I'm afraid Erk isn't as durable as you'd like to think, Sain is more durable. Erk doesn't take counters and has more Evd than everyone else but Guy and has the same Evd as Marcus. He's fine. Erk HP: 23.5 Evd: 30 Crit Evd: 6 Def: 3.8 Res: 7.6 Doesn't take counters Sain HP: 27.0 Evd: 27.5 Crit Evd: 7.5 Def: 8.0 Res: 2.0 Has to take counters Erk attacks random Brigand/Cavalier. Erk hits it twice without being attacked back and kills it. Sain attacks random Brigand/Cavalier. Sain hits it once and risks a counterattack. Erk isn't losing durability because he's not taking counters and he's killing what he attacks. Quote: Yeah, he'll need to be doubling consistently to make up for his Mag stat. :\| There is nothing bad about his MAG stat. Enemies tend to have poor RES, and Thunder/Elfire have a lot of Mt, so he's killing. Saying he has to double to kill because his MAG isn't capped at 28 for the whole game or something is retarded. Erk doubles very consistently. Erk kills very consistently. Quote: Florina only has 21.4 Str at 20/20, then she looses to Fiora in everything else save Luck and a minor victory in SPD. (By Minor I mean .3) By your logic, Florina is going to suck more. Because she apparently always has 1 Less Con than Fiora, which cancels out her minor .3 Victory in SPD. Fiora will be an asset to the EXP rank too. No. Florina has a massive level lead from Lyn's mode and then several chapters before Fiora joins. Florina will also already have a B support with Lyn, and thus a support lead as well. Florina is way better. Asset to the Experience rank? If I want one of those, I'll raise Heath or Nino. Or I'll just promote Matthew later and let him rape in Value of Life. Quote: Level 11 Erk HP: 23.5 MAG: 8.6 SKL: 10.0 SPD: 12.0 LUK: 6.0 DEF: 3.8 RES: 7.6 Level 11 Sain HP: 27.0 STR: 14.0 SKL: 7.5 SPD: 10.0 LUK: 7.5 DEF: 8.0 RES: 2.0 With 8.6 Mag, he better be doubling, nothing else to be said really. At the same level, Sain's got a natural 5.4 attack advantage. Sain can't OHKO and he doesn't double. Erk KO's when he doubles, which is very often. Winnar = Erk. Quote: Correct. Using YOUR format, I proved why Sain is a great unit. Their Parameters are both pretty good, but Erk's really aren't better. Defense-wise, he has more Crit-evade than Erk, and if we factor in the extra 15% from WTA, he'll have 72.2 Evade. Erk's are better because he has better Atk Spd and thus doubles things and kills things. He also has permanent 1~2 range. More Crit Evd? Who cares? Neither of these units ever get hit with criticals, and both of them are dodgey. Erk has more base Evd and Sain has WT control. Durability isn't much of an issue for either of them. Quote: Bad information on my part I think, but Erk requires to double to do damage/kill these, whilst Sain deals more damage in his hits. But Sain won't be doubled either, mrite? Who doesn't require doubling to kill promoted enemies? You need like 55 Atk to OHKO a Hero. Sain doesn't double these enemies. He doesn't kill them. Erk doubles them with Thunder and they die. Go Erk. You actually have Spd. Quote: Sain's 43 Attack > Erk's 26 Attack. :\| As you can see, Sain won't need to double to inflict serious damage/kill his enemies. And he hardly has less hit if he'll more often than not have the WTA. *41 Fiora sucks. Sain inflicts serious damage in one hit and doesn't kill. Erk inflicts moderate damage twice and kills. Erk is clearly winning. Quote: And yeah. Staves are great. <3 But being able to move around maps faster, Rescuing units so they don't NEED healing in the first place, and bringing other slower moving units to the front is probably more useful, doncha think? I'd rather not waste Sain's turn on rescuing something and then waste another turn dropping the unit. Have someone attack the threat(s) and then Erk can heal the unit in danger to gain free EXP and raise his staff level. This only makes you lose one turn of attacking, but you're not losing a turn of EXP. Win for Erk. So, in the earlygame, the mage boy is running around with some of the best offensive parameters and he's not taking counters. When he doubles, he's pretty much killing whatever he doubles due to the enemies having like 0-1 RES. He's outdoing the likes of Eliwood and Lowen in offense pretty easily. He's also outdoing your unit because he doubles more. Erk starts winning over Sain in the Combat rank right from the start. In the midgame, he has tons of Spd now and is doubling almost everything. He's got Priscilla supports by now and is making her better. He'll soon promote, and gain staves, which is awesome. Now he has a second pool of experience to pull from, and it's one that takes no experience from other units and just adds free experience to the Experience rank. Erk is now clearly winning the Experience rank, and still winning the Combat rank from one-rounding the speedier enemies that Sain can't double. When Sain can't double, he needs Silver or something, which is way more expensive than el cheapo Fire, so since Erk doesn't have to use anything above Fire/Thunder to net kills, he can win Funds. In the lategame, Erk will have tons of offense and defense. His own bases in offense and defense are good, and then he gets lots more in both from A Priscilla/B Pent. Sain will have his A with Kent, but him having a B is looking like a rather rare occurance. Serra is often dropped for Priscilla and she has horrendously slow supports, and Fiora is just plain mediocre. Erk always gets his full supports, though. Erk is always making two units better while Sain is always making one unit better and sometimes a second unit, so Erk is doing better in supports and benefiting the team more. He's also able to use higher level staves by now, and can pull EXP from that instead of killing, which also benefits the team more. Sain has to get kills to gain any EXP, which takes EXP away from other units all the time.
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Linoud	Jul 21 2007, 11:34 AM Post #7
Knight of Seven Posts: 4,051 Group: Veteran Member #45 Joined: June 9, 2005	True. He won't be taking counters when he hits, which is a good thing for him. But what I'm getting at is, his Mag/Str is pretty low for level 11, 8.6 compared to a 14.0. That's all I'm getting at. I didn't say he had to be capped at 28 for the whole game. I'm just getting at the fact that his early-game Mag is low. Even Lucius will have more at level 11. Lucius at level 3 almost has equal Mag to him, and Canas just has more at level 8, to be precise he has 1.4 more than him at 3 Levels lower. Take a look at Lucius at 20/10 and then at Erk at the same level. HP: 35.3 Mag: 23.8 Skl: 20.0 Spd: 20.3 Luck: 7.2 Def: 6.6 Res: 23.6 Con: 7 Move: 6 Aid: 6 Erk: Level 20/10 Sage HP: 39.2 MAG: 17.2 SKL: 17.2 SPD: 21.0 LUK: 11.4 DEF: 10.6 RES: 18.2 CON: 6 AID: 5 MOV: 6 Just by looking at that, you can see that Lucius will be killing more. .7 behind in speed, and yet he's 6.6 ahead in the magic. He'll also be hitting more from his own Skl. This is without adding on supports. And as you say, enemy Res being lolworthy, Erk's being outclassed in Magic by Lucius here. But this aint Lucius versus Erk, lets move on. Sain: Level 20/10 Paladin HP: 43.4 STR: 24.3 SKL: 14.8 SPD: 18.2 LUK: 13.8 DEF: 13.6 RES: 6.6 CON: 11 AID: 14 MOV: 8 Sain's got way higher attack. It's possible to get him to 44, including WTA. 44 attack = Most enemies dead, and the ones he will be doubling are the higher hp ones, like Tanks. Anyway, have a look at their stats here: Sain: Level 20/10 Paladin HP: 43.4 STR: 24.3 SKL: 14.8 SPD: 18.2 LUK: 13.8 DEF: 13.6 RES: 6.6 CON: 11 AID: 14 MOV: 8 S Lances, A Swords, D Axes A Kent, B Fiora: 5 Atk, 1 Def/Res, 17 Hit, 7 Evd, 17 Crit, 25 Crit Evd Power to create Lesbians. Erk: Level 20/10 Sage HP: 39.2 MAG: 17.2 SKL: 17.2 SPD: 21.0 LUK: 11.4 DEF: 10.6 RES: 18.2 CON: 6 AID: 5 MOV: 6 S Anima, C Staves A Priscilla, B Pent: 1 Atk, 3 Def/Res, 12 Hit, 17 Evd, 20 Crit, 25 Crit Evd Sain has one of the best skills in this game. Creating Lesbians. :\| Erk does not have this. All the attempts at wooing the female cast over, it's all an attempt to create a mass Lesbian orgy. There's proof of him planning an orgy. Look at his Kent A support. A support with Kent SAIN: Hey, Kent! We've learned quite a bit on this quest, haven't we? KENT: I suppose. SAIN: You suppose? Why, when we get back to Caelin, we should gather all the lovely lasses we know and have one big, magnificent-- KENT: Don't start with that again, Sain. This is no time for gaiety. There is still much fighting ahead of us. Either one of us could fall in the battle to come. SAIN: You always expect the worst. That's why Lady Lyndis never... KENT: Hold your tongue. I'll have none of your foolishness now! Just keep your wits about you, that's all I'm saying. One overconfident lurch into danger could easily-- SAIN: Overconfident? Who's overconfident? I know this isn't going to be easy... But I'll not let that shake me. After all, I'm not alone. I've got you. And you've got me, right? Right? KENT: Yeah, you're right. SAIN: So let's get riding, shall we? And watch my back partner! KENT: Of course, my friend! With honor. He was definetely going to say ORGY. See? How manly is that? And this obviously isn't the first time he's tried to do it. Kent clearly says. "Don't start with that again, Sain." I don't think Erk tries to amass a big lesbian orgy, Poor Erk doesn't have it in him I guess. But Sain definitely does. He has great intentions.



+Ema Skye	Jul 21 2007, 12:03 PM Post #8
Snackoos = <3. It's science! Posts: 20,957 Group: Advisor Member #40 Joined: June 9, 2005	Voting time,,,
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