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| Soundecho vs Kamaitachi | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 9 2007, 10:09 PM (396 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Jul 9 2007, 10:09 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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make me laugh 
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 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Soundecho | Jul 10 2007, 04:42 AM Post #2 |
 
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Hmmm, Babe  vs ugly She male :Vaida:, should be intresting. Good luck. (Oh and BTW you spelt my name wrong Inui)Vaida joins at Cog of Destiny with HHM bonnuses so her starting stats HP:46.75 Str: 22 Skl: 20.5 Spd: 14 Def: 22 Res: 6.85 Luc: 11 Con: 12 While Serra should be around 20/13 and this is me being nice since you can stave abuse in LHM to get Nils to Lvl 7 to get to 18xx HP 35.5 Mag 18.5 Skl 16.3 Spd 21.3 Def 8.6 Res 24.0 Luc 24.6 Let's get onto statistics. Vaida obviously will have no supports. Vaida Silver Lance/Silver sword Hp 46.75 Att 36/35 Hit 120/125 AS 14 Crit 10 Avo 39 Def 22 Res 6 Serra A Lucius B Sain Light/Shine/Divine Hp 35.5 Att 24/26/28 Hit 156/151/146 AS 20/18/14 Crit 43/46/48 Avo 71/67/59 Def 12.6 Res 24.0 Vaida is a bit more durable except when facing magic users and bow users so Vaida's getting raped by them. Serra however, takes decent damage from a physical unit for a magic user and has a good chance at avoiding attacks while Vaida just sits there and gets attacked. Vaida also joins in a chapter where the are status staves, so Vaida craptastic res will make her bait while Serra's res will make her the candidate to tank against them and also to restore berserked, sleeped units etc. On to offense, they both probably tie in att since Serra's attacks Res, the only person that Vaida would win against are magic users and they rape her 6 res. Serra also has the smexy 43 crit while Vaida has the craptastic 10. Serra can also use her most powerful and heaviest weapon at her disposal and still tie with Vaida in AS, that just proves how crap Vaida is. So like Serra rapes her in offense since she has a 3 in 5 chance of critting and she can double well with light. Onto Utility, Obviously, healing utility >> flier utility. But also Serra is there from the beginning of HHM while Vaida appears in one of the very last chapters of the game, Serra is there to help your team to become more durable while Vaida's nowhere to be seen. It is nearly impossible for you to complete the early chapters w/o serra unless you abuse Marcus and that's hurts your exp rank and your characters are then underlevelled. So therefore, you are forced to use Serra in the early chapters of HHM. Serra also make Lucius way more durable and then Lucius is awesome, Serra also recruits the awesome Erk. There growths are basically the same except for Vaida's got 10% def and hp growth and Serra rapes her in res and luc so it will their stats will stay the same later on. Oh and   |
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| Kamaitachi | Jul 10 2007, 10:19 PM Post #3 |
Classy
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Okay Pumpkin, you're going about this debate all wrong. I'm not doing this just to fuck with you, but it's true. When debating Serra vs Vaida, it's all about sex appeal, and sex. Debates are sex, and Fire Emblem is sex, so it should be true that Fire Emblem debates are double the pleasure, double the fun.
First off, are you calling my warrior woman an ugly she-male? You young kids are all so superficial these days. It's not how they look, it's what they can bring to a table. Someone who's better looking will not necessarily perform as well. Trust me on this. I've got years of experience on you
So what this is basically saying is, that when it comes down to it, Vaida outlasts Serra, plain and simple. She's got the stamina, she's got the power, and she's got a decent amount of speed, you know, just the right pace. Its seksay. Serra is lacking in these same departments, and thus I can assume her performance in bed is lackluster at best.
She just met everyone. Have you see her support list though? Man, it would appear she's got a lot of options, and a lot of bedfellows. Let's look at those supports, shall we? Vaida has fire affinity. Fire is good. It burns long and strong, just the way I like it. Serra has the Lightning affinity. It's bright, it's powerful, but it's extremely quick. That's usually disappointing. Looking at the support lists: Vaida gets: Heath (A Hottie on a wyvern for some hot atop Lizard relations) Harken: Now, Harken's all hots for Isadora, but she's probably all chaste and stuff. Her knighthood probably comes before womanhood. A sexy man like Harken has needs. Hello Vaida. Goodbye needs. Canas (He won't admit it, but he's probably very well-read, knowledge and booksmart about how to handle a lady) Wallace (C'mon. He's huge. You know he is) Karla (Karla is quite possibly one of the hottest girls in the game. Vaida gets to hit that.) Dorcas (He has a wife. That's how fucking charming and hot Vaida is. She bagged a married man) Merlinus (Merlinus has storage. Now can you imagine all the sort of things he could pull out to use? Amazing!) Serra: Sain: A womanizer, but he's all talk I'm willing to bet. I bet the only woman that ever pleased him was his left hand. Lucius: A man woman. Call me crazy, but perhaps he'd be good in the sack. Hector: Okay, so Serra can get the man of all men. I'll give her that Oswin: Okay, so Serra can also get the other man of all men. I'll give her that too. Matthew: Slinky little thief? Sly bugger I'm sure. Although, having sex with a guy who lost his girlfriend, you know, a blade, is never really any fun. Erk: Cute, but probably very unworldly in the ways of women. Florina: Quite possibly the oddest girl on girl pair I've ever seen. Brash Serra and Shy Florina. It's like the Odd Couple, but more annoying. Now herein is the problem: I'm not bashing Hector or Oswin by any means, but they're manly men. Vaida + Manly men really don't mix. The sex would be just too frickin hot. That's two powerful personalities, going all out in incredibly rough, probably incredibly kinky sex. You'd feel sex shockwaves reverberating throughout the cosmos if that ever happened. So for the sake of the universe, Vaida does not "Support" Hector and Oswin. Serra, however, I can only assume, is a squealer. To take someone like Hector or Oswin without feeling any sort of pain is impossible. She's going to be screaming, and probably not in the pleasured way either. So really the meat of the debate: (hehe, I said meat), is based purely on the fact that Vaida is more of a woman than Serra, even despite, nay...especially because of her looks. Vaida has more experience, is probably a lot rougher, and a lot more versatile in the bed. I mean, most people on this forum would never do this, and to them I say "you're missing out", but they're all to fond of their "Manliness" to ever try it. But if you ever, ever let a fierce, passionate woman take control in the sack, you're up for a damn fantastic lay. If you ever, ever struggle for sexual control over a fierce, passionate woman in the sack, well then you're up for the wildest, most ferocious, and most satisfying night of your life. I would probably not enjoy bedding Serra, but Vaida, oh man. Vaida would probably set my body and soul ablaze with all kinds of nasty passion. I mean, just look at it this way: Why put up with a staff and light, when you could put up with swords and spears. Which of those is sexier to you? My vote is clearly on the latter. Now, when you take a look at their stances in the picture, Serra is all like...girly and coy and whatnot. If that's what gets your boat afloat, then don't let me stop you. However, when I look at Vaida, it gives me all kinds of goosebumps and shivers (amongst other things). I look it and go "There, there is a woman that could beat the crap out of me while we have sex." Notice, I"m saying have sex, and not making love. Making love is reserved strictly for people you're in love with. Vaida is not the sort of person I'd marry. She'd probably murder me over breakfast (which I might actually enjoy). Serra strikes me as the sort of girl that if I'd marry, I'D want to murder after a short while, mostly because of how god-awfully annoying she is. The sex would not make up for the fact that every time I listened to her speak, I'd want to throttle her. So ultimately, if I had to marry one of the two, I'd look at it like this: Marry Vaida, end up dead, but with amazing sex. Marry Serra, end up in jail with so-so sex from her, and being buttraped for the rest of my life. I'll take Vaida, thank you very much. I'd like to take this moment to re-iterate my warrior woman statement. Fierce women are hot. Battle scarred, powerful, fierce women are amazing, and oftentimes hard to find. Whiny women who care more for appearances and getting what they want from whomever are commonplace. They're a dime a dozen. Just walk around the hallways of your school: Most girls strive to be the Serra kind of woman, and that's really dumb of them. I've always been attracted to that one, dark brooding girl who when she glared daggers at me I thought she was honestly going to kill me. You can just sense the fire of their soul through that. You look at those giggly air-headed bitches, and all you really see are just these dum-dums who care more about nail polish than about life. And they claim to be amazing at sex, these dumbass girls, but they're all inexperienced, and think it's all about sitting there and taking it. Nah, that's boring. Let's spice it up! So I've rambled on enough about a topic that's probably inappropriate for most ages of this forum, but I really don't care. It had to be said. So yeah. I'm gonna go...take care of something...mmmVaida.... |
   
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| Soundecho | Jul 10 2007, 10:57 PM Post #4 |
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Well it is fairly obvious that Serra > Vaida. And since I have nothing to counter i'll say say somethings about serra>vaida. Onto offense, Vaida base spd 14, is very low. So she's doubling units that are extremely slow like armors and wyverns and guess what, the def and res gap is so big that Serra will beat her in damage output even with light and also unpromoted units which everyone can kill. Hell she could even move up to Divine which she would pwn Vaida with. The only units that Vaida would cause more damage are magic users but they pwn her defensively Onto Defense, Serra may have significantly less defense and hp than Vaida but she has tons more avoid which can easily be boosted by things like pillars. Bow users absolutely pwn Vaida and so do the all dangerous Valkyries. Serra however, doesn't have to take a CA when attacking and can avoid when enemies have like crapish hit in this game. Onto Utility, Serra has staves while Vaida has flier utilites for liek 4 chapters. Serra is there makin your team more durable during the stages of the game. Vaida is there more like 1/10 of HHM while Serra is there for all. Serra can actually kill while Vaida can't So that means Vaida cause me trouble and also about ranks. Tactics - She isn't there to help my units for like 9/10 of the game so she isn't making my team go any faster while Serra will be healing adn making my team more durable. EXP - Serra used like 2500 exp to get to that point on HHM so she obviously wins. Funds - Although staves cost alot, the healing factor offsets this and but Vaida wins this by a marginal amount due to serra having a promotion item. Combat - Serra can DA and actually kill stuff whereas Vaida can't Survival - Vaida gets pwned by bow users and magic users so she isn't helping me at all. |
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| Kamaitachi | Jul 11 2007, 12:47 AM Post #5 |
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Classy
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Well newbie, I see what you're saying, but all I'm hearing is "Everything you said above is true, and therefore, I was left speechless". I read the post you had up before you edited it. I had hoped you'd leave it so I could ACTIVATE MY TRAP CARD, but so be it. You chose the high road, and I applaud you. Good luck never getting laid ever. So Trish, what have you to offer me here? I'll go back and start with your first post too, just so you'll actually have something to work with next round. First off: 43 Crit? Are you serious? Crit is basically Skill/2, meaning Serra's Base critical will be roughly 8. Add 5 for a Lightning Tome: 13. Full Critical from A Lucius B Sain is 25 Crit. That equals 38 for lightning, 41 for Shine, and 44 for Divine. It's not by much, but it does help to do your number crunching properly, you know.
Vaida is a bit more durable except when facing magic users and bow users. Wow. They're so terribly frequent in this joining chapter. The problem herein is that you're facing mostly physical units, and with Vaida's 22 base defense. (Yeah, that's higher than most character will reach in 20/20, ((credit to Lucas for pointing that out)) In fact, that defense is matched closely by Lowen...and then overshadowed by the useless Wallace, and the amazing Oswin and Hector. So she's basically tied for fourth for defense (really she's a solid fourth, because of her HM bonus, but we'll say tied, just for you). Does that make her, a bit more durable? Hell yes. Look at the chapters where you can actually use Vaida: A shit ton of physical units. There are magical units too, but you want her to not fight them? You want her to avoid status staves? Well then holy crap move her out of the way. She's got the movement to do that, as well as the whole ignoring terrain thing. Listen, Bessie, it's any general rule of thumb to not put your units in a position where they're a liability. Vaida can move out of the way. And then for the rest of the units, save archers, she can tank. Now, herein is the thing, Elizabeth, Vaida against bows is a dangerous thing, but when you look at her defense and HP...does it really matter? She'll still be able to survive a bow attack. They're not that devastating. Sure, everyone thinks flyers get raped by bows...and they do. But the enemy snipers are not only few and far between...but they're relatively weak as well. I'd be more worried if an axe user approached her while she was using a lance. As for Res, well she has that nice HP safety net, which is more than Serra can say. Serra will fare well against enemy magic users. However, most of them around Vaida's time, being mages and sages, Serra's going to be facing a lot of WTD. And if Serra gets attacked by a phsyical unit, she's going to be more than a little fucked. She doesn't have an HP net like the others do, and 12.6 defense is...well...terrible. Now, you're going to say "well I'll have Serra behind all my other units" and then I'll say: "Well what's she doing back there? You've been arguing her combat ability" (which, by the way, is nonexistent for quite some time). Then you'll move her to the row directly behind your front row, so she can get support bonuses and aid in combat. Well...there are clearly no such things as enemy fliers who can move around your backranks. There are no such things as ranged units when it comes to Serra...only when it comes to Vaida. Serra has great evade, but evade is never as good a guarantee as 22 defense. Having 100% of getting 0 damage is infinitely better than 50% chance of getting 20 damage. The numbers aren't exact, but I feel my point is made.
Wait...wait wait wait. They tie in attack? Vaida's attack lead will more than enough make up for an enemy's res drop. 10 more points of attack versus 4 or 5 points difference in resistance (unless you're talking other wyverns) I'm gonna go ahead and say Vaida is going to be winning attack regardless of who's attacking what. As for "The only person that Vaida would win against are magic users?" I would point you in the direction of creatures like myrmidons, creatures like archers (who believe it or not, can't attack at close range, have low defense, and will be raped up the butt by Vaida's lance). In fact, if you're still working the ranged perspective: Serra attacking an archer at range will be just as prone to heavy damage from the archer as Vaida is...except you know...Vaida has more HP and 10 more defense. In terms of offense, you're looking at a base of 22 points. That's again, more than enough to deal out massive damage, especially when she's got, say, a silver lance in hand. Even with an iron lance, she'll be doing more than enough damage to the enemies that she needs to hit.
In terms of utility, I'm not going to lie and say that flying is >>> healing. However, flying is a more versatile advantage. With Vaida's also sexy con and aid, she can easily rescue most units in the game, and carry them to safety for said healing. Serra couldn't rescue toast from the kitchen counter. As for abusing Marcus: He's not necessarily going to be attacking every time. You can, for all intents and purposes, use him to block of enemy advances without a weapon, rescue units to take them safely away from harm, and various other useful things. And earlygame, once you get Priscilla, you should probably drop Serra like she was a piece of flaming dog poo. Why? Well Prissy is better. And I had a problem with this earlier, so I'll bring it up now: Making Lucius durable can be done by someone else. I'm not going to support Lucius and Serra together because upon promotion, they do the exact same job. And since earlier you were big on offensive stats, and how Serra was evidently raping, look at Lucius' offensive parameters with light magic. He'll be able to heal better than her as well, because his magic is higher. He won't have a higher staff rank, but that's okay. The most he'll ever really need is a mend. Priscilla, Erk, Pent, and the rest can take care of that. Serra becomes...rather useless as she'll be in a field where everyone can do her job better than her. As for an incredibly mobile tank? Well no one beats Vaida. Oswin and Hector are on the ground, and Lowen is on a horse...but Vaida fucking flies. It's amazing. She can wage combat over water. Can Serra do that? Well Serra could, I"m sure, but she'd probably drown in the process. Serra recruits Erk. Hot shit. Vaida recruits no one. Why? She's a kick-ass package all in herself that requires absolutely no babysitting. (Oh right, Serra requires a shit ton of babysitting. Why? Well she's offenseless, and she can only really gain one or two sets of 11 or 12 experience at a time (11 for heal, 12 for mend. 2 sets of it if you're using Nils). On enemy phases, the best she can do is 1 at a time. Unless you putting her in the attack range of every available unit. Then she can muster like...5 or 6, but she might also, you know...die.
Vaida also is a prepromote, and doesn't require any training. Serra has good reason to fear the RNG. Vaida does not. It's not such a good thing for Serra, is it?
Really? How big is that defense-resistance gap? Well, I'll be using a more suitable attacking unit to found out. Go Lucius! Go Pent! Go Erkzilla! I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. Serra, because she attacks res, does more damage and she doubles? Sure. Why not. Vaida does more than enough damage with a single attack, thanks to her massive strength. With her wyvern, she's ultimately going to have more range than Serra can hope to accopmlish. She's going to be going toe to toe with units like Generals and armors, myrmidons and the like, and will fare better in combat. Serra will be shooting magic, and doubling, sure, but it's no guarantee she'll do more damage. Keep using lightning. Its accurate, but very weak.
Enemies have crap-ish hit? Uh...weird. Have you played Hector Hard Mode? Their hit isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. Serra is in just as much danger of being counterattacked as the next person. Her avoid isn't that much more. We've been over the "bow users absolutely pwn" argument, and I don't feel like repeating myself. And as for doubling:
So Vaida can double a decent amount of them. Most of the ones she can't are things that she's going to be doing large amounts of damage too anyways. She'll go toe to toe with those Wyvern Lords, and those Generals, and those armor knights and be okay. I mean, 52 magic units and 93 physical units. I'm going to go ahead and put my money on Vaida having a defense advantage. Oh yeah, 14 of them use bows. So...yeah, Serra's gonna have a hard time on the enemy phases when she starts getting attacked. Offensively, she'll fare well enough, so long as she isn't countered. But then again, Vaida will fare better on both the attack, the counterattack, and the enemy phases. Go Vaida.
Serra is there for all of the game. Right. Team? Priscilla. Priscilla? Team. Please'd ta meetchya. Serra? Priscilla. Priscilla? Serra. Serra? Bench. Bench? Serra You get the picture? Vaida is there fore like...1/10 of HHM, and you're sitting there going "Well holy crap, where have you been all my life? Can I show you my bedroom?" And what exactly will Serra be killing most of the time? Wounds? Pains? I'm Serra. I kill aches and pains. Serra, meet Vaida. I'm Serra, I kill the little booboos you get in battle. I'm Vaida, I kill everything in my path.
Tactics: Wrong. Serra's been sitting there getting acquainted with units like Bartre in the "no one uses me" tent. EXP: No way Serra got that much. You know why? We weren't using her past some earlier chapters. Combat: Vaida can't kill stuff? Did you not look at Vaida's pure damage output for a single strike? Serra can actually kill stuff? Well later on sure, but at first? What is she going to kill? My ears when she gets all high pitched and annoying? If THAT's the case, then sure, she wins. But no. Survival: Serra gets pwned by every physical unit in the game. She's not always going to be safely camped behind everyone else. How do I know this? Well you've made some pretty outrageous claims, so I can only assume you'd have some outrageously dumb battle formations too. In any case, there, actual debate post for you. Have fun. |
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| Soundecho | Jul 11 2007, 02:40 AM Post #6 |
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Hello S ranking Light
People surely have more than 22 attack you know
Status staves have 3 usage. That means like Vaida staying out of a staff user for 3 turns and she's getting left behind. Why can't I just leave Serra do that as well.
Yeah but she's getting taking major a silver bow. An hp net is nothing when you take major damage from magic attacks.
Serra tanks against magic users with her awesome 22 res she she doesn't need to worry about WTD. If Serra gets hit by a physical unit she has a very good chance at dodging since enemies have crap hit in this game. 12.6 isn't terrible, Pent and Erk has around 14 - 15 when supported, Lucius just has terrible defense and Canas has the same
Her inability to fight is made up for her healing earlygame.
Serra's durable enough to dodge, and she's certainly not getting killed by one person. Although avoid isn't as good defense it's just as sufficient.
Average gap between res and def is 8 - 10 so Serra can move to Shine and tie with her. So Vaida's really going to beat Serra at people Vaida can't double.
Exactly how does Vaida winning offense against, myrms, she certainly can't OHKO them and She certainly can't double them while Serra may DA the wighed down one. WTF is Serra attacking an archer at 2 range, that's just idiotic. Serra must be dealing more since she's targeting res, the only ones that have lower than an 8 res def gap are unpromoted units which are easy to kill. Vaida can deal massive damage, Serra can DA more Units than vaida can and attacks res.
Physic is more versatile than having more range
With Serra smexy ability to use staves, she can just physic them so another unit doesn't have to waste their turn.
Marcus can get killed if he's overwhelmed and then who come to Marcus' rescue, thats right, serra does. Just because Priscilla> Serra doesn't mean serra auto phails. I could list a whole bunch of units that are way better than vaida. It's actually better to have two healers than in any othe games because the enemies hit harder and offense doesn't matter when you have decent str/mag and your name isn't Dorcas/Wallace who can't DA for shit.
Who adds 3 def and 7 avoid to lucius, that's right Serra. Raven can also do this but he's rather intrested in other units like prisiclla. Lucius + Serra = pwnage. Lucius can't heal better than her since Serra has recover and fortify for her. LOL at list of units being outclassed by, I could list a whole bunch of units that Vaida is outclased by.
Good healer and attacker > mobile tank. Hello that purge, she can attack without even have to go near water.
Serra doesn't require babysitting she's not getting 1HKOed, i can spam staves if i can afford to.
Serra's growths are unrapeble except for spd and def but she will still get higher spd than Vaida and also I can give Serra the energy rings since it increases her healing power rather. If i gave Serra the ring, she would be making the whole team more durable whereas if i gave it to another unit, he/she would only be helping themselves.
The res def gap is rather large, Serra doubles the majority of units while Vaida doubles the unpromoted units and some promoted units while Serra doubles the promoted units fine.
The ones Vaida can't double Serra will easily kill. Yeah but the difference is Serra can evade the attacks while vaida just hopes she survives those 66 units that can majorly damage her. Javelin and Handaxe have crappy hit so Serra can dodge them fine so she'll never needs to take CA that will severly injure her. So Serra wins two phases and Vaida wins 1.
Two healers is actually useful for HHM, since you need more defense than offense since any unit not named Wallace or Dorcas and doesn't have crappy att can DA. There's a whole list of people who are way better than Vaida.
She promotes around ch 23. She has like 6 ch to kill people.
Tactics: Just because she's outclassed doesn't mean she's automatically phail and read my above arguments Combat: Serra can kill stuff from ch 23 on, Vaida can kill stuff like from ch 29 on. Vaida can't kill some promoted units Survival:And when she's on the frontlines for some reason, she won't die for like at least 3 - 4 attacks and the chances of that happening are low since she'll most likely dodge them. Vaida takes Major damage from like 66 enemies from the chapter you posted. So what have we learnt - Serra beats Vaida in offense against the most important units who are promoted ones - Serra severly crushes Vaida in utility due to staves and being there since the start of HHM - Serra is actually better than Vaida in defense since the ratio to physical units and units Vaida is bad against 2:1 so she dodges the majority of dangerous blows while Vaida has to take them - Having Both Serra and Priscilla on my team helps my team out more on the durability side - While Serra is outclassed marginally by pent, priscilla and lucius, Serrra is still a good option for my team while Vaida is outclassed by a whole ton of units - That i should never debate against you since your second post was all about sex |
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| Kamaitachi | Jul 11 2007, 03:01 PM Post #7 |
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Classy
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Um, hello "not gonna happen". You have her at 20/13, and considering she's been using staves this whole while, what on earth are you doing getting her up to an S in light? Goodness gracious.
Surely you jest!? Of course they're going to have more than 22 attack. While this is just fine for Vaida, who will be taking a minimal of damage as a result, this is not fine for Serra, who is your client. I think you just hurt your own cause there.
Why can't you just leave Serra to stay behind as well? Well sure, Tiffany. Go ahead. Keep her behind. She has the movement to catch up righ-....oh...wait. Vaida's a Wyvern Lord and can reach back up to your frontline in no time. Whoops. 3 turns isn't so bad, especially if your team is helping you get past those pesky status staves. I mean, if you were smart, you'd steal one. But I guess you're acting like this is Vaida solo vs Serra solo.
She's getting major a silver bow? Well that's so nice of her. The Major is getting a shiney new gift. See? Isn't Vaida nice? And even then, are you ever, ever, ever going to put a flyer in range of an archer without a delphi shield? No. No you're not. Will it happen occasionally? Sure. Sometimes you miscalculate, or those pesky nomad troopers get a surprise leap on you once in awhile. However, that's the thing about Vaida's HP net and fantastic defense. A bow is more deadly to every other flier in the game over than Vaida, and that's her advantage over them.
So Serra's Res of 22 is awesome. Even after I pointed out the abundance of physical units vs magical ones (which you evidently chose to blatantly disregard), you're still saying Serra's Res of 22 is awesome, and Vaida's 22 defense is not. Can I also point this out to you?
FOOT IN MOUTH! EAT IT! She doesn't need to worry about WTD and losing that evade you were so callously boasting? Hmmm. Enemies have crap hit in this game? Have you played this game? They have crap hit in normal mode, sure. But in Hard Mode, you're going to get hit more often than you think. Serra has good evasion, I'll give her that, but she's not a dodge queen, especially because you never proved that Lucius and Serra is a viable support. And yes, 12.6 is terrible. Pent and Erk have better defense when supported, which is good. I'd still wager that with enemies that have "MORE THAN 22 ATTACK", 14 and 15 is still pretty dangerous. Lucius and Canas are in more of a pickle. Lucky thing I'm not arguing either of them, right?
Have you even talked about healing at all? You showed Serra at 20/13 (That was you being nice of course, and me allowing you to be nice so we'd have a more even playing ground). Let's look at all your other potential healers at 20/13, just for shits and giggles: Serra: 16.3 (heals 26.3 with a heal staff) Erk: 18.4 (Heals 28.4 with a heal staff) Priscilla: 19.6 (Heals 29.6 with a heal staff) Pent: 20.1 (Heals 30.1 with a heal staff) Nino: 21.5 (Heals 31.5 with a heal staff) Lucius: 24.5 (heals 34.5 with a heal staff) Canas: 20.8 (heals 30.8 with a heal staff) The only person Serra heals better than is Renault. Why are you using her? And since her magic is so low comparitively, why are you using her as an offensive unit at all? Lucius will be doing much more damage with light magic. Hell, I would wager that training up NINO would be better than using Serra. I've stated this over and over, and you never have a response for it: Drop Serra as soon as you get Priscilla. Have you provided an adequate counter argument? No. No you haven't. Your only reply is "You need two healers in HHM" Well I've just pointed out that you have a lot more healers. So if you're not gonna drop Serra once Priscilla joins, drop her when other magic users start promoting. They'll be doing a better job of it than her. So every time I've said "Use Priscilla" and you also blatantly ignored them, I'm going to assume by your silence that you're agreeing with the fact that Priscilla is better. Therefore, you should never have even bothered to defend Serra at all.
Evasion relies on this horrible thing called "if". You're sitting there at your game going "I'm fucked if it hits, I'm saved if it misses" "I'll be fine if Serra can dodge" You look at Vaida and go "Well shit, Vaida can take it." Avoid isn't as good as defense. It's not just as sufficient. Dead Serra hurts your ranks too, you know.
8 to 10 on who? Armored units and Wyvern perhaps. Res is not so low across the board that you're fine with Serra taking up arms to attack. You've got plenty of other strong magic users to choose from. Sadly, few can equal Vaida's pure strength. And Vaida's a chick. She emasculates most men in this game. Isn't that just both abjectly terrifying and abjecty sexy? I love the fiesty women.
You've clearly never played the game before. Let's say your Florina is flying around, and she's made her move. You've left her in range of an enemy archer. It was just an honest mistake. Now, the only way to even reach that archer is with Serra, and she's gotta do it or Florina is toast. It's an improbability, but sometimes a magic user will have to attack an archer at long range. It may just happen, and you'll be very sorry you chose to field Serra if it ever does crop up. As for Vaida's offense, she'll be killing just as much as the next person, even though she's a bit slower. I mean, honestly, if you're boosting your weapons with Shine and Divine for crit boosts, why not pop on over a Killer Lance to Vaida? That's terrifying, isn't it? Serra MUST be dealing more since she's targeting res? You MUST be dumb for even suggesting that. You stated yourself that Vaida will do well against magic users. They have low ass defenses, and Vaida will rape them before they can counter. Why? I dunno, something about 36 attack. Now, I don't know what you're getting at with this 8-10 def-res gap. I mean, really I do know, but it's dumb. Vaida has enough speed to double several enemies. I pointed this out earlier (again, you chose to ignore it, so your loss), and she has, when she joins, 10 more attack points than Serra does. So then basically, Vaida equals Serra in damage output, if not surpasses it. Mind you, it's also a little more rare to find a unit with 10 more points in defense than resistance, unless they're a wyvern or an armor, and in that case, Vaida's probably doubling them anyways.
Physic is not versatile. Physic performs a single function. Having more movement increases the unit's versatility: Whether or not you need to rescue someone, help out a far away ally, or reach those pesky long range staves to kill them off before they cause any real harm. Flying is more versatile than healing.
Right, because you always have a physic handy on Serra, not another unit who'll be able to heal better due to a higher magic stat.
Well, if there was a whole bunch of units that are better than Vaida, why did you not list them? Oh that's right, when it comes to Strength and Defense, she's in the top lot. Serra does not autophail. I don't see why you'd jump to that conclusion. I didn't. I guess you're trying to put words in my mouth now. Priscilla > Serra means that I would actively choose Priscilla over Serra. Why? Well I want to win this game. Serra makes it harder to win the game. So she's not autophail. She's more like...auto D+.
Right, but they do the same job. They're a little redundant if you ask me. It's also a fairly slow support. Sure, it can start early. However, Lucius isn't even that great. You're adding evasion and def to him is a lost cause, as it only makes him slightly more durable than he would've been normally. Wait, Serra has recover and fortify for her, and she's getting an S rank in light? Huh. Weird. And things like recover and fortify should be going to someone who'd use them better anyways. (trend much?). As for laughing at the list of units that outclass Serra...well that was a dumb move. You should've actually countered it. Just laughing at it means you weren't bothered to reply to it, and tried to make it seem insignificant. Sorry Janice, but that's always been my strongest point in these debates, and there's no way I'm going to let you get away with it on me.
The Serra you've been arguing here is an impossibiltiy. Why? Well with Serra having the lowest skill of the magic users, her accuracy will be the lowest. Her only saving grace with Light magic is that it's naturally accurate. Now you take the least accurate of the tomes, and plop it on her and say "Wtfawesome!?" Weren't you talking about ranks earlier? Why are you using purge?
Serra doesn't require babysitting? Well then, next time I play Fire Emblem: Rekka No Ken, I'm gonna go ahead and send Serra out into the middle of the battlefield armed with a staff. "Go Serra! Soundecho said you don't need babysitting, so you go ahead and "wtfrape" those enemies now, k? Oh...oh...you're dead. CURSE YOU SOUNDECHO! I BELIEVED IN YOU!!!!!
Right. If you get to give Serra energy rings, I get to give Vaida speedwings. One ridiculous claim is met by another. Atop that: Serra's growths can't be raped? If you're going to make a huge statement like that, never follow it up with "except". That just weakens your argument. As for the unrapable aside from Spd and Def...what about skill? That's 30% right there. Her Mag growth doesn't matter, because she starts out with a base of 2. It's going to be low no matter what. Serra's growths are fine in themselves, but she has such low bases that it won't really help her throughout the game.
Um, where were you when I pointed out that Vaida can double just fine? Also, the res-def gap is not as great as you're making it out to be ALL THE TIME. Sure, it can be that way sometimes, but you're talking about it like every single unit ever has a gap between defense and resistance in favour of defense. Don't forget that units like Magic users and Pegasus knights will more likely have higher resistance than defense.
Again, you're arguing like this is Solo Vaida vs Solo Serra. 66 units will not attack Vaida at the same time. In fact, if she's not killing them all off, then they're clumping around her. What happens then? Well you send in other units to get them. Now the ones behind the frontlines that couldn't get to Vaida, can't hit her, so they're either stuck trying to squeeze in, or they go after some other troops. Vaida is not hoping. Vaida is tanking. And Serra can evade javelins and handaxes. What about Short Spears? Spears? What about units with high skill that are more accurate than you'd even thought of with these things? "Javelin and Handaxe have crappy hit so Serra can dodge them fine so she'll never needs to take CA that will severely injure her" ...what? You speak English? I need talk slower for you? Maybe you should pay more attention in school, Janet. Serra wins two phases? Vaida wins one? Vaida's defense is going to keep those units at bay until she needs healing. Serra is going to sit there dodging around until she gets hit and needs healing herself. Serra just needs to be hit once to require healing. Vaida will need to be hit several times before she'll even bother to ask. Seriously Trisha, this just isn't working out here. If Serra is going to be doing the healing on one phase, well then there's her attack phase gone, she'll have to rely on counterattacking, which isn't fun, because that means enemies are getting the drop on her, and are attacking first. She can't counterattack if she gets hit and dies. Yeah. Serra's still all about the if.
Hi. My name is Kamaitachi, and I actually speak in coherent sentences. Notice, Kamai's sentences do not run on, and generally use proper grammar You're using Wallace? What's wrong with you? I pointed out Wallace because he was a viable partner for Vaida, but it's really not true, because you're going to be wanting Geitz over him anyways. Let me guess. You took Karel over Harken too. For the love of Oprah, Newbie, learn to play the game. Now, as for your actually sentence: "Since you need more defense than offense since any unit not named Wallace or Dorcas and doens't have crappy attack can DA." What exactly is it you're trying to say here? You need more defense because most units can double attack? Units with crappy attack can still double attack. Double Attack ability has absolutely nothing to do with their attack. It's their Attack Speed that matters. Goodness. You really don't know what you're talking about do you?
At Chapter 23, you've only received your third Guiding Ring. Are you telling me you didn't promote Erk, Lucius, Canas or Priscilla, just in favour of Serra? Really? Let's say you were playing the game normally: I would say Erk, Lucius and Priscilla get the first three. Canas gets the fourth one, if you're using Canas. That's at chapter 27. Then the next thing is Chapter 29. If you want to promote Serra then, I won't stop you. But oh wait...That means she won't be 20/13 by the time Vaida comes along. She'll be 20/1. Eek. Well aren't you just in a pickle there, Deborah?
I did. I found them to be rather shallow and pedantic. Sure, I'm susquipedalian (look that up if you need to), but I notice that those arguments were pretty lame.
Actually, since you pointed out promotions: Serra's not promoting until Chapter 29. Whoops. Serra can't kill some promoted units either. I don't see what your point is in that one either?
Right. Vaida takes damage from 66 enemies at the same time. If Vaida takes damage from 66 enemies, then Serra can take damage from 66 enemies. It's how the game works.
What we evidently haven't learned is how to spell "learned" in its proper usage. 1.) Serra beats Vaida in offense? No. Serra doesn't even attack most of the time. I went ahead and pulled the carpet out from under your 20/13 argument, and well...that means Serra is losing significantly. 2.) Serra severely crushes Vaida in utility? Sure. Serra has staves, but you're in favour of S-ranking light. I guess Serra is stuck to healing and the occasional recover. I guess there's no warp staff or restores, or any of that cool stuff. Just your basic healing stuffs. Vaida can't rescue units, or shield them, or fly over to aid them due to her movement, or charge enemy frontlines with your other ranged frontline units? Nah. None of that. 3.) Serra is actually better than Vaida in defense? Your ratio makes no sense because your parameters make no sense: Physical units to units Vaida is bad against is 2:1? Vaida isn't bad against archers. This isn't pokemon. Vaida can still do severe damage to archers. Vaida can still do severe damage to magic users. Vaida can still do hefty damage to just about anyone. Can Serra say the same? 4.) Serra is outclassed MARGINALLY??? What game are you playing? Serra is outclassed marginally by Lucius. Priscilla and Pent are a whole different tier of outclassing Serra. Goodness gracious, Jessica, I suggest you go back and play the game. 5.) Vaida is outclassed by whom? You've not brought in a single other unit who could outclass her. I did that myself, and you didn't bother to capitalize on it. If you want anyone to consider Vaida being outclassed by another unit, you might actually want to prove it. 6.) "That you should never debate against me since my second post was all about sex" Let's re-write that. Soundecho: "I should ALWAYS debate against Kamai since his FIRST post was all about sex, which THUS PROVED THAT VAIDA IS BETTER THAN SERRA." This leads me to believe that you really weren't reading my posts at all, seeing as you didn't even know what order they came in. That clearly means you have little to no respect for me as your opponent. Just because I've been calling you dumb and by girl's names doesn't mean I don't respect you. I have, however, read over every single word in each of your debate posts twice or thrice at least. Since you clearly haven't read any of mine, GTFO of my debate! If anything, thank you for convincing me never to field Serra again. I did actually use her when I started playing...but now I realize the inherent folly of it. You've helped me out immensely here, Soundecho. I'm a changed man. Oh, but I still have needs. Hello Vaida. Goodbye needs. |
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| +Ema Skye | Jul 11 2007, 04:13 PM Post #8 |
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Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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Time to vote. |
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MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH
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1:48 PM Nov 23
