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| Solid vs Candy Man | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 9 2007, 10:09 PM (266 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Jul 9 2007, 10:09 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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eat some candy, solid 
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 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Jul 10 2007, 01:57 PM Post #2 |
 
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kk, let’s begin with comparisons when Harken joins... For supports, Guy can feasibly get A Matthew/B Priscilla, since he’s the best option for both in their respective slots and both are God Tier units and join fairly early. Harken’s supports are: Isadora - phail Eliwood - has many other options (e.g., Hector A/Lowen B ) Vaida - another mediocre-to-sucky range unit Marcus - crappy lategame statistics and non-use therein Lowen - if Rebecca isn't played (and she usually will be when Lowen is played), Harken can get a Lowen support, sure. So, we’ll be nice to Harken and give him a support with Lowen...but wait! Unfortunately, this support, unlike Neimi/Colm or Pent/Louise or ramen noodles, is not instant. Harken doesn’t join equipped with a Lowen support, and it will be a little bit before he gets it. If Guy promotifies in Chapter 22-23 (and he should since he joins early and has amazing stats), he'll be about a level or so less than Harken in PFoD. 20/7 Guy w/Iron Sword, A Matthew/B Priscilla Offense: 26.65 Atk, 24.1 AS, 55.95 Crit Defense: 11.15 Def, 7.7 Res, 75.6 Avo, 46.7 HP ??/8 Harken w/Iron Axe, Offense: 30.5 Atk, 18.0 AS, 10.75 Crit Defense: 16.0 Def, 11.0 Res, 48 Avo, 41.5 HP Defensively, it’s ~5 Def and ~3 Res vs. ~5 HP and 27.6 Avoid. 27.6 Avoid is a ginormous amount, especially with the dual-RN system. ~5 Def doesn’t come close to comparing (and ~3 Res, but that’s not worth much). Harken leads in Attackz, but Guy’s lead in AS means that Guy will be doubling every single enemy in PFoD, whereas Harken will have trouble with the enemies that have over 14 AS right about now (Myrms, Mercs, and NTs, to name a few), more if he equips anything heavier than Iron. Against enemies both double, Guy’s Crit Chance is 55.95. The chance that he’ll crit at least once out of two times is about 80%. Yes, 80%. That’s huge. There’s no wei that Harken’s Attack lead is a win for him when Guy’s AS and Crit Rating are so much more h4x. The case could be arrested there with "Guy wins in defense and it's arguable over offense, so Guy wins overall," but there's even more to add to this comparison-- You get 19k per unit in this game after settin aside enough to S-Rank HHM. That means that Guy can use more expensive weapons whenever he wants to. 19k ~= 30 Killing Edges. Harken probably wants to use Silver since his Crit isn’t up to par, but he can’t use Silvers right away since he has double B, so suckz to be him. Using a Killing Edge increases Guy’s Crit up to 85.95% (and also increases his Atk by 4), which means the chance of him critting once or more out of two attacks is now 98.03%. ...that’s more than a lot of people have to hit a given enemy. And with his enormous AS, Guy will be one-rounding (either OHKOing or 2HKOing) every single enemy--excluding bosses--reliably. Unfortunately for Harken, Silver Weapons won’t increase his AS or his defensive parameters. Thus, it's no longer arguable--Guy >>> Harken offensively. And, since Guy >>> Harken defensewise as well, Guy >>> Harken overall. The situation doesn't improve for Harken. By Victory or Death, they both should be about 20/12-13. Harken can maybe have C or B Lowen by this point, though most likely C. Even with B, he’ll only get about 10 Avoid and 2 Attack. Guy’s faster Speed and Luck growths means 10 Avoid is offset, and Guy can still 2HKO more often than Harken thanks to enormous Crit and more AS for doubling Valks and Heroes. Also, there’s icing to this cake (mmm, frosted!). Harken appears in PFoD, Chapter 27. When does Guy appear? That’s right, Chapter 13. ~20 chapters, counting Gaidens. And Guy is amazing those 20 chapters. He’s an awesome partner for both his supports, and he has crazy statistical parameters due to high AS and HHM boosts. He can begin using Killing Edges as soon as Ch. 20, and he’s li3k a beast the whole ti3m. Harken, meanwhile, is neither killing enemies nor supporting and benefiting other characters. He’s nowhere to be seen. This means that Harken would have to defeat Guy by a large enough margin after he appears to offset Guy’s insane usefulness before Harken even appears. But, sadly (for Harken), Harken does the exact opposite—he loses to Guy after he appears. So, what’s the conclusion? Guy > Harken, earlygame, midgame, and lategame, no contest. *eats candy* |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| Candy Man | Jul 13 2007, 03:11 PM Post #3 |
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Why would Harken use a heavy axe when he could use a light sword? ??/8 Harken w/Iron Sword Offense: 26 ATK, 23 AS, 10 CRT Defense: 16 DEF, 11 RES, 58 AVO, 38 HP So Harken isn't doing too much worse than Guy, and Guy has full supports already. Also, Harken has 38 HP when he joins. Not 41.
Unfortunatly for Guy, Silver Weapons won't increase his AS or defensive stats either. Harken has 11 CON, while Guy has 6. So, Guy will be suffering more.
Too bad he's locked to swords the whole time. Wow he can use Killing Edges. Harken can use killer weapons right when you get him. Soo you don't have to waste that pretty Brave Sword.
No. Guy > Harken earlygame and midgame due to Harken not being there. Harken > Guy lategame. |
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| Super Saiyan SolidSense | Jul 13 2007, 04:18 PM Post #4 |
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Because Harken loses 0 AS from Iron Axe, lol.
No; unfortunately, using lighter weapons only increases your AS if you were losing AS with heavier weapons. Harken has 18 Speed at ??/8. No matter what weapons he wields, he cannot go above 18 AS. So, 23 AS is quite out of the question. And if he wields an Iron Sword, not only is he not faster at all, but he has Guy-level Atk...except for the fact that he lacks Crit and AS still, so it just makes him that much worse.
So you admit he's doing worse? How, then, can Harken be better than Guy lategame, like you claim later in your post? Also, it doesn't matter that Guy "has full supports." His supporters are God Tiers and they both want to support him--why shouldn't he be fully supported? If anything, it's even more of an advantage to Guy, since he's benefitting people other than himself. So, unless you're supporting my side of this argument, I don't know why you brought that up.
HHM boosts. There's a topic on the FE6 board about them.
Why do I get the feeling that you totally disregarded everything I said in my post? Srsly. Guy already has higher defensive stats and AS than Harken does, so Guy doesn't need the increase. Where Guy needs the increase is offense--and lo' and behold, Killer Weapons increase his offense hugely (above Harken's due to Guy's inherently higher Crit and AS). Harken, on the other hand, can't increase his lacking areas, Speed and defenses, no matter what weapons he wields. As for Con, why would Guy be wielding Silver Weapons? He's better with Killer, which are also cheaper anyway, whereas Harken needs to use Silver and still doesn't win. Killing Edge Guy loses a whopping 1 AS. Oh noez Guy sux.
Being locked to Swords has no relevance whatsoever when you have amazing stats, which you've done nothing to contest so far. Besides, this doesn't even matter early on. The faster enemies, which are Sword users, well, he's one of the few to be able to DA those, so he doesn't need WTA against them to be good there. The Lance users? The ones with Iron, like Pegasus Knights and some Cavaliers, he can double, again (since they have 8-9 AS early on, which means others won't be doubling). The rest, like Knights, not many can 2HKO, so he's likely going to use KE, for which he's the best candidate, against those. Then later when he builds up his Avoid weapon triangle counts even less.
Harken using Killer Weapons? He has 10 Crit to begin with. +30 from Killing Edge is 40. 40 Crit isn't reliable at all. Meanwhile.... Using a Killing Edge increases Guy’s Crit up to 85.95% (and also increases his Atk by 4), which means the chance of him critting once or more out of two attacks is now 98.03%. ...that’s more than a lot of people have to hit a given enemy. And with his enormous AS, Guy will be one-rounding (either OHKOing or 2HKOing) every single enemy--excluding bosses--reliably. So no. And lol, who says only Harken can use Brave Sword? Anyone with a sufficienct Sword Rank can use it, not just Harken. Harken doesn't even have the luxury of claiming that he earned you that pretty weapon. The person that recruited Harken, in fact, is accreditted with that--you don't have to use Harken at all to get that extra Brave Sword, but you do have to use the person you're recruiting him with (at least for that chapter).
Even if this were true (which it's not, or at least you haven't provided any statistical backing for it this far), you just conceded this debate. 2/3 of the game > 1/3. ggnore. |
| this is the best Brawl match ever....EVER | |
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| +Reaver | Jul 17 2007, 10:01 AM Post #5 |
Troll
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Candy Man times out. |
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10:58 AM Nov 26
