Askio

Jul 12 2007, 07:19 PM

Sure, you point out rebecca is better off totally at 20/2. But chances are more or less that there stats wont be quite that. I've had personally experience in the point that they get their 20/20 averages or close to them, but have great dividing difference in their earlier levels. Like my oswin getting 16 def as a level 20 knight, but then getting slightly higher on all his averages at 20/20. You dont expect it, but odds are better getting stats at 20/20.

Askio

Jul 12 2007, 07:19 PM

As for the girly comments on Lucius, he gets everyone to fall for him, man or women. Rebecca only gets some guys. Meaning Lucius wins in that regard too.

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Looking towards the end of the game, both are strong units. Rebecca going double hit on quite a few things with decent attack while Lucius goes around with nearly capped stats of everything but HP and DEF.

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And whilst rebecca may seem to superior, that is mostly late game. Lucius in the start has low DEF and LUK, but high stats all round besides that. Rebecca starts off as a frail bow user, making it a bit of a pain to train her, especially on HM. Also, a few more things have to be taken into account, which I will tell below.


Lucius 10/xx

HP:21.8
MAG: 11.8
SKL: 9.5
SPD: 12.8
DEF: 1.7
RES: 10.2
LUK: 3.2

Rebecca 10/xx

HP: 22.4
STR: 7.6
SKL: 9.5
SPD: 11.4
DEF: 4.3
RES: 3.7
LUK: 8.5

1. Early on in the game, Lucius is more vulnerable to physical attacks with a little lower DEF and HP: But he beats her by 4 points in terms of power on its own, and since units at the beginning have terrible RES, Lucius has a natural advantage. He also will deal more damage when double attacking enemies, even with only I point higher in SPD, in order to catch up, Rebecca needs a steel bow at this point, but that would reduce her SPD by 4, meaning less to no double attacking and her being more frail.

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2:Lucius is a magic user, and isnt expected to have high DEF. He is meant to go around, hitting enemies with his high mag stat, which if rounded, is capped at level 20/13.

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3.His high critical rate as a magic user makes him even more deadly,

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especially when you get Luce, and an A support with priscilla, karel, or serra, and then a B support with one of them. By end game that is at least an extra 50% boost on his critical rate, and with his good SKL, he can get in the high 50% to low to mid 60% critical range. Thats some destructive magic, against both other agic users and physical units.

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4. Getting 14 RES for a physical unit is decent, but rounded 11 DEF isnt that great. She is by far a unit that relies solely on dodging attacks. Against more powerful units, especially on HHM or EHM, she is to fragile when she is hit. And it isnt a matter of if, simply when, because it happens, by bad luck or no, at some point.

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5. Magic is superior to most physical weapons, especially bows. Bow users are to vulnerable to both magic and physical attacks, since they cant counter up close. And since it is the only weapon she can user, it means she is in big trouble compared to units who can use bows and a second weapon. And since the magic users start to get decent in later parts of the game, especially in HM, rebecca will be in trouble from up close attacks and far away attacks. Lucius on the other hand can counter all attacks, up close or afar. the only time he cant is being hit by a staff, long range magic, and ballistas. And with his high RES throughout pretty much the whole game, only ballistas will be any real threat to him as long as your smart.

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6. Lucius is one of the best magic users, except compared to Athos,  Priscilla, and Pent. Serra doesnt close in terms of capping stats, only surpassing really in LUK.  Priscilla, even if she does have mounted, loses in HP, MAG, SKL, and SPD, even though she is better in DEF, and especially LUK. But she is godly, so it isnt quite fair in that regard.  Renault lacks magic power and RES, and Erk simply doesnt come close enough in terms of late game stats. Canas is at a natural disadvantage with dark magic's weight, even with the luna spell, only really gaining ground in DEF and HP. He is the best light magic user, and one of best magic users overall in the game.

Rebecca on the other hand, is one of many bow using units, and is by far not the best. Lyn gains a D rank in bows on promotion, and has better stats across the board except a small STR different. Warriors, even though they lack the SPD to double attack, are more sturdy with higher DEF, HP, and decent RES, and with a cap of 30 STR, and most getting close to that, can deal just as much damage with a bit of training in bows with one attack. Will and rebecca are about even, since rebecca is faster with slightly higher RES and some more LUK, and she has higher SPD, but she loses to him by almost 4 points in DEF, 2 in STR and 7 in HP, and will most likely will be a higher level then rebecca when you have both at the same time to start.

But by far, Rebecca is not match to Rath. Losing to him in HP, STR, and DEF, barely beating him in SPD and RES, she only has a real advantage stat wise in LUK and SKL. But Rath beats her out in CON and being mounted. Even if his DEF growth is terrible, he still beats out Rebecca in terms of being a bow user. Plus, Rath can use swords, meaning he can hit enemies up close, making him twice as deadly and only half as vulnerable. He can also use more weapons without losing SPD. Though high rank light magic might slow Lucius down, the highest forms have great affects and multiply Lucius dangerous critical power and RES.

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7. As for supports, there is a reason for why he takes longer. The creators knew that if he got an A-B support with two right characters, it would make it too easy since that could give him a 25% critical boost, plus his good SKL adding to that, plus the fact that light magic adds to critical %, lucius would be critical hitting almost every time he attacked.

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Rebecca on the other hand needs supports in order to be good until she gets a higher level and survive her frail state early on in the game until around the time she promotes.

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More I could say, but Ill let this be enough for now.

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only for stats that cap-ram
Anyway, what's your point? That's how it is on average. Sometimes Rebecca wins by more, sometimes she wins by less, whatever. On average, that's how much she wins by. And...she is indeed winning, so what does it matter?

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Lucius gets...5.
Rebecca gets...7.
uh-ohz

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and luck
And him having capped stats isn't worth anything in itself. It's what those stats are doing for him that matters.
His spd has a decent chance to cap, but Rebecca is pwning him there anyway. His magic cap-rams, but Rebecca gets more attack from her supports, and her weapons are much stronger.

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First off, you used Lucius's lv 11 mag rather than his lv 10 mag. 11.2*

And actually, I would expect Lucius to be about level 8 and Rebecca level 11. First of all, the enemy concentration in Lyn mode is extremely low, and secondly, Lucius has 5 chapters, and Rebecca has 7.

Also, Rebecca will have a support with Lowen for +1 atk, among other things.

lv 11 Rebecca's atk with C Lowen and Iron Bow = 15.0
lv 8 Lucius's atk with Lightning = 14.0
AS = 12 for both

Most physical enemies do indeed have terrible res, but their def isn't too impressive either. Most have a def/res gap of about 3, so that's a 2 atk lead for Lucius. But then magic users have a slightly larger gap, and it's in the opposite direction, so that's a 5 atk lead for Rebecca. And then pegasi not only have slightly more res than def, but Rebecca also gets an effective bonus against them, so that's about an 8 atk lead for Rebecca. When Lucius wins, it's by a small margin, and when Rebecca wins, it's by a considerably larger margin.

Also, in a few chapters, Killer weapons can be bought, but, unfortunately (for Lucius), Killer tomes don't exist. Rebecca's offense gets a nice boost, and Lucius's...doesn't.

From this point on, Lucius has a higher magic growth, but that's countered by Rebecca's supports giving her more attack. Rebecca has the higher spd growth.

Rebecca wins offense.


On defense, Rebecca has 3 more def, 2 hp, and about 11 more avoid. Lucius has 5 more res.
Rebecca is already winning.

Lucius's res growth is higher, and he gets more from his supports, but Rebecca's avoid growth is much higher, and she gets much more from her supports. Not only is the avoid gap much larger, but also, avoid protects against both physical and magic, while res only protects against magical, so Rebecca is winning by a huge amount.

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Whatever he's "meant" to do doesn't matter. All that matters is what he can or can't do.
His durability is bad, and that hurts him.

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Rebecca's crit is much higher.

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There's several problems with that. 1, Luce doesn't exist until the final chapter. 2, it costs your funds rank 1200 gold per use. 3, it has 16 wt.

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If she died in one hit, I would care. However, she doesn't. She rarely ever gets hit at all--many enemies even have 0 hit, and almost everything has 0 hit if she's on terrain--and she's certainly not getting hit enough times for her to die.

Lucius, however, has nothing to protect him from physical attacks. He fails.

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Being able to counter doesn't fix his durability. It doesn't keep him from dying. In fact, he would probably be better off if he didn't counter so that he wouldn't kill the enemy, as killing the enemy makes way for another to attack, leading him faster to his death.

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This has alot of BS in it, but it doesn't even matter because all I need to do for this debaet is prove that Rebecca is better than Lucius, not Rath or whoever else. This part is irrelevant.

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It's already too easy. You get Rebecca.

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You mean like Lucius, who's even more frail?

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more? srsly? You already said quite alot.
Well, let's see what more you have.

Askio

Jul 19 2007, 08:51 AM

It does matter. On average she only truly wins by any decent amount is in LUK. And averages generally dont hold water until later on because of the odds. That and earlier in the game as well.

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Uh oh what? Rebecca gets...

Lowen, who is a solid unit round to support with, Ill admit that.

Will, who is another sniper. Thats just what you need. Two units who can be rapped up close together. Guess its better not to die alone.

Nino, who comes so weak towards the end of the game that without babysitting is useless.

Sain. who is good in some aspects, but loses out overall to other mounted units and who is also a man whore, so it doesnt matter since he hits on almost every girl.

Louise, oh, whats this, another sniper, and a pre-promo no less. Thats what you need, another frail bow user who is only really great since she has pent with an A support, but is only a decent on her own.

Dart-A good unit, with flaws, but its her brother. Unless some incest is going on, she doesnt get action from that.

Raven-ok, so for once, a godly like unit that she might get stuff from.

Lucius supports with....

Karel, a solid units that only really lacks HP, but they jack each others stats quite a bit, especially their dangerous critical. He tames a demon swordsman, rebecca cries. She loses cause she cries and gets shot in the face.

Raven-Both of them get godly raven, but lucius supports with him about 2.3 times faster then rebecca does. Plus its gay love. Gay love in FE games =awsome. Awesome =win.

Priscilla- Another godly unit lucius can support with, and awesome support it is. Lucius rapes dark users and light users, priscilla light users and anima users. And they make a godly team as well. Plus he gets both the family members. He wins.

Serra- She falls for him like the god he is after she finds out he is a man in their first support. He woes all. And serra is a decent magic user too, so another good pair.

Renault- ok, this is a bit of a dud, but interesting to say the least. Its hard to get, but can be done. At least he is useful compared to some units.

So rebecca gets some action from a few units, while lucious gets it for almost all of his. And lucius also has two godly units he can easily get an A-B support with the two. Rebecca has more, but that isnt better, especially since a few are useless, or better off supporting other units then Rebecca. She loses, Lucius wins.

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More attack from supports, with his supports with Priscilla, Renault and Karel, he gains 1 attack for each level. Serra and Raven by half each level. And with an A-B support lucius gets def boost from all supports but one, which is half DEF. This means his low DEF catches up to Rebecca's since only two of her supports provide DEF boost, and those are by half points.  And there are more bows, but again, in order to deal damage till she gets stronger, she does need heavier weapons, meaning her speed goes down because of her CON. Especially on hard mode.

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Typo on the magic there. But your point on Lyn's story doesnt hold much water. On hard mode, there are more enemies, and plenty to level up units. Playing smart without even boss abusing, you can easily get two units in the double digits in terms of levels. And while rebecca has two more chapters, its only on hectors story that there are a lot of flying units to start. And on the level that you recruit lucius, there are lots of dark magic users that come out, meaning a killing feast for him. And you point out that rebecca will deal more damage then lucius. Well...

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One: thats with a support, and she has one more damage lead. Unless its a myrmi or some random unit with decent RES, The gap between the def and RES is usually two or three points, or more. Meaning even with  a small lead, lucius will deal more damage to most units early on in the game when you get both of them together. On top of that, the next few chapters are loaded with low RES units and dark users, making Lucius far more valuable early on in the game. Compared to Rebecca, who is easily targeted early on, Lucius will live longer, even if she is relying on supports to get here through.

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And then onto your weapon point. There is not killer magic weapon for almost all magic, excluding Luna, thunder, the S rank spells, and all light magic. Luce eventually gets you high critical rate, but lucius doesnt rely on stronger weapons, since he can one round most enemies with just a lighting or shine. Rebecca could do that against magic units, but against higher HP and DEF units, she loses, hands down.

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And as for her DEF and HP lead, well, like I said just above, all but one of Lucius supports provides one point of DEF, while rebecca only has two supports that provide DEF, and those are by half points. With an A-B support with say Raven, Serra, Renault, or Karel, Lucius gets a 5 point DEF boost. That means less damage from physical units then Rebecca can take, with another 5 RES lead, meaning Rebecca will have an avoid and HP lead, along with higher LUK, but Lucius becomes ore durable over all then her. Oh oh, Bishop just got higher points there. Plus with his high magic through almost the whole game and most units except other magic units having not so great RES through quite a bit through the game, Lucius wins offensively and defensively. Even with Rebecca's better weapons like Killer Bow, Lucius wins.

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Rebecca's crit is much higher.

Once she promotes at first yes, but without killer bow, Lucius isnt that bad, especially later on and with supports.

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There's several problems with that. 1, Luce doesn't exist until the final chapter. 2, it costs your funds rank 1200 gold per use. 3, it has 16 wt.

Yes you get it in the final chapter, but it still lets Lucius rape in the last chapter. Using it a few times wont hurt that much, by then you should have enough stockpiled stuff that increases your funds rank anyway, so not to much of a problem there. And yes, he loses SPD, but he will still double most enemies in that chapter. And if he has a critical in the 60% in the last chapter, odds are, he is going to hit it, and it will hurt them. Much more then Rebecca would, since there are a lost of high DEF units in the last chapter. And even without Luce, his supports jacking him up with his good skill, and light magic boost. Rebecca only truly wins in critical with a killer bow, but she relies on those weapons because most units have much higher DEF then RES, magic users excluded. Meaning again, Lucius deals just as much damage, with or without supports, without critical reliance. Also, you have hammerene staff meaning you you can use it, then repair it, so you can use his high level weapons then repair them again. So that point again doesnt hold ground. Even if you lose money on the staff.

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Once she promotes she has good dodge, or at least close to promoting. But before that, she blows and can be hit by almost anyone. And in the mid game some units who are unpromoted, using inaccurate weapons, will maybe have a 0 hit chance on her, but on hard mode or against promoted units, stuff will hit here. Especially against magic users, and stronger ones like bosses. As for the physical attacks, again,  on terrain and with and A-B support with all but one unit, he has a two DEF lead over Rebecca, plus a huge RES lead later on. Meaning he will be fine against attacks magic and physical wise.

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Again, an A-B support fixes his physical weakness nicely, raising up to a decent points. And with enemy low RES and his high magic, he will deal more damages out and will take more with his now with supports jacked up DEF and RES. Even against magic users, his high stats will one round most of them with just a lighting or a shine. And his durability for the most part is fixed up. So being able to counter everywhere is better.

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Simply saying it has BS and trying to pass it off doesnt mean its not true. All units have a weakness, and only being able to use a bow is a big weakness. Even with her avoid, she is vulnerable, and when she is hit, she lacks the defensive stats of other bow using units. What I said above was true. I was pointing out there are better bow using units, while Lucius is one of the best magic users. Why use units that arent the best besides support purposes, especially on hard mode? None, unless you like hampering yourself. Rebecca fails for more reasons, which I will say below.

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She only gets killer weapons later in the game and critical boost on promotion, while lucius gets a small critical boost the whole game. He wins in that aspect early on at least. And between supports and weapons, Rebecca again, wins by a large margin with killer bow, but not by a ton with other weapons.

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You mean like Lucius, who's even more frail?

By the time you have both early on, Rebecca beats lucius in a few points of DEF and around 1 point in HP, while owning her in attack power and RES. Without supports early on, Rebecca cant deal the same damage as Lucius, for reasons that have already been said; terrible RES for enemies, excluding some magic users and odd ball physical units, and her weak attack. So Lucius deals more out, even with just a lightning.

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Lucius also comes in with chapters with lots of magic users, so again, big advantage there.

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Yes more. Quite a bit more in fact. At least for now.

As I said before, the most important thing for a unit to do is what they are meant to do. Rebecca is meant to attack your occasional flying unit and some magic units, and dodge attacks, as well as kill your weaker DEF units and weaken the others. But thats it. she can hardly rescue any units, except units with low CON like Priscilla, Serra, and Nino.
And then she loses her SPD and along with it dodging skills. So she isnt a very versatile unit.

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And versatility is one of, if not the, most important thing any unit can be in games like FE. And Lucius is far more versatile then little old rebecca. and here are the reasons why.

1: With his supports and jacked magic, combined with a lot more physical units in the game, Lucius deals more damage out and with his supports, and can take more. Sure he has less dodging strength, but not by any means is his dodge bad, and Id rather have a unit that deals more damage and can take more then rely on simply dodging.

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2: Lucius, while he isnt much better off in rescuing units in terms of CON,  has one great advantage when he promotes. Healing. When he promotes, chances are he will have around a B, maybe A rank in light magic. And unlike units like Erk and Canas, as well as Nino, Lucius gets a C rank in Staves. Meaning right off the bat, high healing and support skills for Lucius, killing off enemies that threaten weakened ally units, or healing them from behind, meaning they both are fine. Meaning Lucius helps keep your survival rate higher then rebecca ever could, and with his supports, means he is more durable then she is. By end game she may have higher dodge and SPD, along with LUK, but a few superior stats doesnt make her more versatile. Lucius being a magic user gives him a natural advantage in this field, but once he promotes and can actually keep other units alive without having to worry about carrying units and losing his SPD like Rebecca would, he is far more valuable then she is.

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3. And again, bows lose out quite a bit, especially since that is the only weapon she can use. Meaning if she did rescue a unit, she will be rapped up close and from afar. While Lucius is fine and dandy healing allies and killing enemies without to much worry. He does fine staying alive and keeping others alive too, while rebecca can only really save herself or be saved.

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So what would you prefer? A dodging machine that uses a weapon that is very vulnerable, and you can get plenty of other dodging machines with similar or better results,

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or a unit that deals out equal or more damage in terms of being a magic user, is more versatile because he can attack from up close or far away, allowing him to rape all units, who gets more durability from his supports, meaning he can take more damage then she can, and a units that doesnt have to worry about saving units by losing stats because he can heal them from up close or far away, or blast the enemies that are being troublesome. In my opinion, the more versatile unit that with supports has overall better stats then she does, losing some in DEF, HP, SPD, and largely LUK, his supports make up for the DEF weakness, jack up his deadly magic and critical, meaning only losing a bit in HP and mostly in LUK, meaning he is better. Much better. So he wins hands down. Big time.

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If by "LUK", you mean, speed, crit, and avoid...
And what are you talking about, "don't hold water"? Of course they do. It can vary, but any deviations up are matched by devations down, and vice-versa.

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No, Karel is very bad. His attack and hp are low, and he doesn't have good avoid to make up for low hp or good crit to make up for low attack. His supports are slow, especially the one with Lucius (which might not even reach C), so he's not getting any crit from them until forever.
Also, getting him means not getting the Brave Sword or Harken.
He fails.


Lowen, Sain, Raven = good
Dart = decent
Wil, Louise, Nino = bad

Raven, Priscilla = good
Serra = decent
Karel = bad
Renault = don't even have time to support. Strike this one completely.


3 good, 1 decent, 3 bad >>>> 2 good, 1 decent, 1 bad

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lol @ supporting Renault and Karel. Yaye, he gets +1 atk once they finally get C, which is after the game is over.
Priscilla is supporting Erk, Guy, Raven, Oswin, and maybe even Sain before Lucius, and all of them are amazingly good. The chance of him getting her support is near zero.
Serra may not be used, so he's often not getting this support. When he does, though, he gets +1 atk at B, which doesn't happen until after Rebecca's supports have all finished.
Raven, yeahsure. +1 atk.

Awesome, he catches up to Rebecca in def. Too bad his def still sucks. Rebecca's sucks, too, but it doesn't matter because she never gets hit. Too bad Lucius doesn't get much avo from his supports and has crappy lck.

AS loss? By 20/8, Rebecca has as much AS with a Steel Bow as Lucius with no AS loss, and Lucius loses AS from everything but Lightning.

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Hard mode and Hector mode is what I was talking about. Lyn mode has way fewer enemies per chapter than Hector mode, and Lucius is also there for fewer chapters. He's going to be on a lower level.

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I don't think I even know what you're talking about. I do know that I already covered most if not all of this. Def/res gap, etc. It's almost like you didn't read my post. Here, check it out:
Most physical enemies do indeed have terrible res, but their def isn't too impressive either. Most have a def/res gap of about 3, so that's a 2 atk lead for Lucius. But then magic users have a slightly larger gap, and it's in the opposite direction, so that's a 5 atk lead for Rebecca. And then pegasi not only have slightly more res than def, but Rebecca also gets an effective bonus against them, so that's about an 8 atk lead for Rebecca. When Lucius wins, it's by a small margin, and when Rebecca wins, it's by a considerably larger margin.

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Let's count the enemies Lucius wins against:
Knights/Generals
...ohsnap. Where's the rest of the list? Surely there's more enemies with a large def/res gap, like wyverns. Oh wait, bows are effective against those. Rebecca wins against all non-General enemies.

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Please. Lucius is not more durable than Rebecca. That's a poor joke.
With full supports, even assuming Serra is used all the time, he wins def by about 2, and Rebecca wins avoid by about 23-34. Rebecca's durability >>>>>>>> Lucius's.

Using 20/2 and giving Lucius a Serra support...

Against an enemy with 22 atk and 79 hit, like Steel Axe Pirates in ch 24 and 25..
Lucius dies in 3 hits, and they have 16% real hit on him.
Rebecca dies in 3 hits, and they have 0.1% hit on her.
Rebecca is invincible, Lucius is far from it.

Against an enemy with 22 atk and 86 hit, like Steel Lance Wyverns in ch 24
Lucius dies in 3 hits @ 24% real
Rebecca dies in 3 @ 1.7% real
It takes about 30 of them (somewhere between 23 and 45) before Rebecca has a 1% chance of dying, and just 3 for Lucius to have a 1% chance of dying.

Against an enemy with 18 atk and 101 hit, like the Steel Sword Mercs in ch 24,
Lucius dies in 5 hits @ 50% real
Rebecca dies in 4 @ 12% real
Lucius...
5 attacks = 3.1% chance of dying
6 - 11%
7 - 23%
8 - 36%
9 - 50%
Rebecca...
4 - 0.02%
5 - 0.09%
6 - 0.25%
8 - 0.97%
9 - 1.6%
10 - 2.4%
11 - 3.4%

Rebecca's durability >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lucius's.

Oh, also

The Bolting Sage in ch 24 has about 33 atk and 88 hit.
Lucius dies in 3 or 4 hits (he's borderline) @ 54% real
Rebecca dies in 2 hits @ 2.5% real
Lucius...
3 - 16% / 0%
4 - 37% / 8.5%
5 - 57% / 24%
Rebecca...
2 ~ 0.07%
7 ~ 1%
14 ~ 5%


And this is all assuming Serra is in play, which she very often won't be, and then he loses even more.


And it only gets worse for Lucius from here. His hp and def growths are both 5% less, and more importantly, his avoid growth is 70% less.



Even somewhere where nearly everything uses magic, so resistance >>>>, like CoD...

Assuming they're both 20/11,
Lucius = 11.7(9.7) def, 29.2(27.2) res, 60.8(55.8) avo --- in parenthesis is without Serra
Rebecca = 9.3(10.3) def, 11.7(12.7) res, 92.1 avo --- in parenthesis is with Raven instead of Dart
Valkyries do 0 damage to Lucius and have about a 2% chance of hitting Rebecca when she's not on terrain (and offensively, Lucius takes about 4 rounds to kill them with Shine, and Rebecca takes 1 round with an Iron Bow). So normal magic users are no threat to either of them. There are a few enemies that don't phail completely against them, though:

Luna Shamans have 22%(29%) real hit on Lucius (he gets WTA!) and 6% on Rebecca. Luna Druids have about 41%(51%) on Lucius and 17% on Rebecca. Rebecca can also very easily kill them without getting countered by using a Longbow (or a Killer Bow for a 70% chance of a one-hit kill) while Lucius has trouble killing them at all, and he always takes a counter, which is bad, since they have a chance of killing him in one hit.
Silver Sword Heroes have 60%(68%) hit on Lucius and 12% on Rebecca and kill them both in 3 hits (Lucius dies in 2 without Serra). Rebecca >>>>>>>


Alright, now while we're comparing stuffs, let's go to where the only enemies that Lucius supposedly wins offense against (Generals) run rampant. Ch 31. Assuming 20/12...

All of them have 0 hit on Rebecca. gg.
Silver Lance ones = 0% hit on Rebecca, and 22%(29%) on Lucius, and he dies in 2 hits.

On offense, Rebecca can one-round them with a Killer Bow if she gets a crit (91% chance). Lucius can't one-round any of them with Lightning unless he gets a crit (60% -- 47% without Serra). Very few of them he can kill with Shine, and more he can kill with Divine (which = -10 avoid -- 37(47)% chance of getting hit). The rest of them he can't kill even with Divine unless he gets a crit. lolphail. So he loses offense even against Generals, and he loses defense by a gigantic margin. Wtf, Lucius. Stop phailing.
Also, he might get doubled (and one-rounded) by Denning if he uses Divine.

Lucius can't double the Myrmidons or the Swordmaster, and Rebecca easily one-rounds them, and he can't double Denning (and Denning has maxed res, LOL 23 res, so Lucius fails anyway), and Rebecca has a 91% chance of one-rounding him.


So
Either Lucius loses defense slightly and loses offense by a gigantic amount, or he loses defense by a gigantic amount and still loses offense. ggnore

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She beats him even without Killer. But Killer does exist, so it's a massacre.

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No. He does not double with Luce. He has about 13-14 AS. Enemies have to have 9-10 AS for him to double. He's getting doubled more than he doubles.
And just so you know, the final chapter enemies have just as much or more res than def. The only exception would be Darin. And Rebecca's atk and AS >>> Lucius's. Rebecca wins easily.

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No, she doesn't have to wait until she promotes. Just until she gets her supports.
And, before supports, Rebecca wins def, hp, and avo, and Rebecca's supports are faster. She's always winning durability.

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The only magic users he's killing are the unpromoted ones. Everyone (that doesn't suck massively) kills unpromoted enemies.
And not only is he unlikely to get that B support, but also, his durability still sucks even with it.

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Again, whoever else beats Lucius or Rebecca is pretty irrelevant. This is just about Lucius vs Rebecca. And Rebecca > Lucius.

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No, Rebecca ties crit when Lucius joins because she has a support and he doesn't yet. Then Rebecca starts winning.

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:richie:

lv 11 Rebecca's atk with C Lowen and Iron Bow = 15.0
lv 8 Lucius's atk with Lightning = 14.0
AS = 12 for both

Most physical enemies do indeed have terrible res, but their def isn't too impressive either. Most have a def/res gap of about 3, so that's a 2 atk lead for Lucius. But then magic users have a slightly larger gap, and it's in the opposite direction, so that's a 5 atk lead for Rebecca. And then pegasi not only have slightly more res than def, but Rebecca also gets an effective bonus against them, so that's about an 8 atk lead for Rebecca. When Lucius wins, it's by a small margin, and when Rebecca wins, it's by a considerably larger margin.

Also, in a few chapters, Killer weapons can be bought, but, unfortunately (for Lucius), Killer tomes don't exist. Rebecca's offense gets a nice boost, and Lucius's...doesn't.

From this point on, Lucius has a higher magic growth, but that's countered by Rebecca's supports giving her more attack. Rebecca has the higher spd growth.

Rebecca wins offense.


On defense, Rebecca has 3 more def, 2 hp, and about 11 more avoid. Lucius has 5 more res.
Rebecca is already winning.

Lucius's res growth is higher, and he gets more from his supports, but Rebecca's avoid growth is much higher, and she gets much more from her supports. Not only is the avoid gap much larger, but also, avoid protects against both physical and magic, while res only protects against magical, so Rebecca is winning by a huge amount.[


You didn't actually counter this, so I'll just repost it.

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What you talkin bout?
Also, magic users are the only things he wins defense against, but then he loses offense by even more.

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Regardless of whatever you think they're meant to do, Rebecca is better at killing and staying alive, so she wins.

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Disproven, liek, x1000, above.

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Good, he can heal. At least he doesn't phail at everything. Now, healing would make him good if he could heal before promotion, when it's more needed, but after promotion, not only do you have several more staff users, like Pent, Erk, and Priscilla, and Ninian, who can let a staff user go twice, and even Serra, if Lucius gets a support with her, making more staves worth less, but also, you have people like Rebecca and Lowen who rarely need healing anyway.
So, I mean, having staves is cool and all, but it's not nearly enough to make up for him phailing so much in combat, both offense and defense.

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Why in the world would either of them be rescuing anyone? They both phail at that.
Btw, Rebecca while rescuing someone has moar avoid than Lucius has normally. She can even have a Steel Bow equipped and still have moar avo as soon as her supports finish, even before promotion, unless you're using Serra, in which case you have to wait until promotion for Rebecca with a Steel Bow and rescuing someone to match Lucius in avoid when he's not weighed down any.

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Naw. Rebecca = highest avo in the game.
She's the only one with all three of high spd, high lck, and full avo supports.
Well, Ninian can get there if she manages to get A with Eliwood and a B with Florina or something, but A Eliwood is one of the least likely things evar.

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I'd rather have the one that can one-round nearly anything and not have to worry about dying than the one with only decent offense and uber fragility--near game-worst durability.