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| Hakado vs Sentenal | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 9 2007, 10:14 PM (256 Views) | |
| +Ema Skye | Jul 9 2007, 10:14 PM Post #1 |
Snackoos = <3. It's science!
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lawl sentenal vs wyvern 
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 MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH MUNCH 
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| Davidof | Jul 11 2007, 06:22 PM Post #2 |
Dutchie
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So... Heath vs. Jaffar. Wyvern Rider vs. Assassin I mean, really, that alone sums up why Heath>Jaffar. Wyvern Lord is a awesome, MANLY class, while Assassins suck. Yes, Jaffar, I'm looking at you. Let's be original and kick off with some 20/20 averages. Heath Averages: Hp: 57.5 Str: 25.9 Skl: 24.3 Spd: 22.1 Def: 19.6 Res: 9.4 Luk: 13.4 Jaffar's averages: Hp: 38.5 Str: 19.7 Skl: 27.8 Spd: 26.4 Def: 17.1 Res: 13.1 Lck: 11.4 So, Heath wins in Hp, Str, Def, and Lck. Jaffar's wins are in Skl, Spd, and Res. Oh, wait, silly me, Heath has HM Bonusses! (HM bonusses taken from this thread.) Heath's ACTUAL stats: Hp: 60(61.5 if it wasnt for that damned cap, lulz) Str: 28.2 Skl: 26.0 Spd: 23.6 Def: 20.8 Res: 10.1 Lck: 13.4 The leads remain the same. Just Jaffar's leads got smaller, and Heath's only got bigger. Now, what do these mean? Heath's leads in Hp and Def make him a much, much more durable unit then Jaffar. His lead in Str makes him hit harder. Oh, Heath also has stronger weapons then Jaffar to up the lead even more. Lck... it's there, but it aint mattering much. Jaffar has leads in Skl, Spd, and Res. Skl is the least important stat in the game, unless it's total crap. Considering Jaffar only has a 2 point lead, if Heath is sucking, so is Jaffar. He also has a Spd lead. In the game with slow as all hell enemies. Then there's Res. It's a 3 point lead, sure. But mages tend to be less inclined to attack range 1-2 units. Like Javelin Heath and... oh, right, Jaffar only has range 1. And the Hp lead is massive enough that Heath is still more durable vs. magical units. Then, let's talk supports: Heath has Vaida... Vaida's filler at best, it's not happening. Priscilla. Well, yeah, she's full. Much. Legault? Not really. Kent? Well, actually... it's possible. Fiora's a wussy-ass peg knight, and Lyn needs to run off after her lesbian pegasus lover, so, while Sain has his A tied up, Heath can swoop in for the B. Jaffar has Nino, Legault and Matthew. Nino... well, we arent fielding his loli dreamgirl since she's crap, so he's out. Legault? Let's not, since we have Matthew. Okay, Matthew then? Hmm... no. If Matthew's taking supports, then he'll take, oh say, A Guy, B Oswin instead? Yeah, fuck you you Leila-slaying asshole! Then, lets bring up some utility.... Ohsnaps, Jaffar has none. Average move, no Steal since he promoted... oh, right. Silencer so he has a chance at one-rounding. With Jaffar's grand 14 base crit, that's REAL reliable. Then there be Heath. He's a flier? w1n. Which also makes him count as mounted. w1n. So he can move anywhere without his move being impaired, do something, like, give Jaffar an Elixer because he sucks at living, and complete his move to go somewhere else. Or, you know, rescue someone, since his Wyvern has room for someone else. Oh, and just to toss it out there, Heath has Lances and Swords, so he has partial WT control, while Jaffar is locked to the low-mgt swords. So, in short, Heath is a manly wyvern of w1n, and Jaffar is a wussy Assassin. And, while completely unrelated to our chars matching up, I hate opening. |
Previously known as: Serra, Hakato, Hakado, Dorgie Poo, Pearl Fey, Kallen and Sailor Moon  HakaDSie>Kovutachi
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| Sentenal | Jul 11 2007, 09:05 PM Post #3 |
When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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Hakato, Frenchie, I'm every time you say something about Assassins being anything other than awesome, I'm going to disprove you, like this:  Assassins pwn.
Yes, silly you, silly you... First off, I see you under stand the consept of a HP Stat Cap, as HP does Cap at 60. However, you got into some crazy "OMG ADDITION" craze with your hard mode bonuss, that you forgot what the SKL and SPD stat caps are. You see, Dorgie Poo, SKL for Wyvern Lords caps at 25. And then SPD caps at 23. So, screw your 26 and 23.6 SPD. Now, lets put the actual stats here. Heath 20/20: Hp: 60 Str: 28.2 Skl: 25 Spd: 23 Def: 20.8 Res: 10.1 Lck: 13.4 Jaffar 20/20: Hp: 38.5 Str: 19.7 Skl: 27.8 Spd: 26.4 Def: 17.1 Res: 13.1 Lck: 11.4 Eh, sorta more like it. Jaffar is still beating your ass in SKL and SPD. Anyway, lets not get ahead of ourselves. When debating Nino, you don't debate her 20/20 averages. You debate how late she fucking joins, and what level she joins. Heath joins as a level 7 Wyvern, in chapter 22: HP: 32 STR: 13.25 SKL: 9.75 SPD: 8.5 DEF: 11.25 RES: 1.75 LUK: 7 Bases are good. Stats for chapter 22... Are not. Heath is being out done by nearly all your other units, who are either closing in on promotion, or have already promoted. In this and the following chapters, Axes, Bows, Mage, things like that. All of which make Heath a pain to train up *part of soul dies* Jaffar, joins chapter 28x, as a level 13 Assassin. HP: 34 STR: 19 SKL: 25 SPD: 24 DEF: 15 RES: 11 LUK: 10 Well, those bases are much nicer. He has lack-luster STR. However, he has plenty of SKL, so he will never miss. Heath can't say the same when he joins. That SKL also helps boosts his crit. And the SPD? Jaffar will double just about everything he ever sees. Defensively, Jaffar is pretty durable. 34 HP isn't hot, but 15 DEF and 11 RES at base is. Then 58 base avoid is sexy too. Now, from chapter 22, to chapter 28x, you have chapters 22, 23, 23x, 24, 25, 26, 27, and 28 to train Heath. I'll be nice, and put Heath at 20/4. Heath 20/4 HP: 48.8 STR: 21.15 SKL: 19.75 SPD: 17.7 DEF: 16.05 RES: 6.95 LUK: 10.2 Now this is a different picture. Heath's win in STR, is down to 2. DEF? Down to 1. HP is his only solid lead now. Offensively, I think Jaffar has Heath cornered. 24Atk, 24 AS for Jaffar with an Iron Sword, to Heath's 28.15Atk, and 17.7 AS, with an Iron Lance. Now, just looking at that, Heath is better, yeah? Well, notice that 24 AS Jaffar has. PLENTY. Jaffar can use an Iron Blade, and get an Atk of 28, and have 20 AS. So, Jaffar can equal Heath's Atk advantage by going up in weapons, and STILL BE FASTER. And needless to say, more SPD, means Jaffar is doubling more. Now, I'm gonna do something that is really gay. Lets talk about Heath's promotion. You see, since Heath promotes, and costs 10k. Jaffar is prepromoted. Now, due to Reikken being gay, this means that if Heath is allowed to use up 10k to promote, then Jaffar is allowed to use 10k of weapons. So, this means I get practically all the Killing Edges or Silver Swords I want, lol. So, Jaffar joins, he gets a Killing Edge. 28 Atk, 24 AS, 42 Crit. I'm not sure the OHKO formula, but its something like SKL/2? RPGDL says that, so sure. That means 21% of the time, Jaffar is killing an enemy in one hit. And the other 21%, Jaffar is doing much bettur than Heath due to normal Crit. And all the rest of the time, they have equal damage blow for blow. With Jaffar being faster. Defensively, its 14.8 HP, and 1 DEF, against 12.4 Avoid, 4 RES, and not being raped by bows. So, Heath's only solid advantage is HP. 4 RES>1 DEF, and 12.4 avoid is nice too. And plus, Jaffar is never raped by bows. Heath is. So, Jaffar is both better at Offense, and equal/arguably better in defense, than Heath.
Having supports earlier, with people like Lyn or Fiora >>>> Heath's slow support. Heath gets no supports.... :(:(:(:(
Yeah, no supports here either.
Flyer "Utility" comes at the expense of not getting Terrian bonuses, and being vulnerable to arrows. And rescuing someone, and then moving again, is very impractical. I mean really, when would that be an asset? Sure, he can do it... But do we care? No.
While Heath also costs you 10k, and Jaffar doesn't. So Jaffar gets to use 10k worth of good weapons to make up for it <3 So, yes. Hopefully you will call into question Jaffar's class again, so I can fuel my ego by posting more of my old Jaffar Animations. |
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| Davidof | Jul 15 2007, 03:17 PM Post #4 |
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Dutchie
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Indeed. Sadly you noticed. Not that it changes much. Heath's hit is fine, as is his Spd, so, wow, your leads still mean shit. Lol.
Yes, so for the next 2/3 chapters, he's rather hard to train, since there be mages and all. Indeed. Though, wait... in ze desert, he's actually not that bad off. He can fly, meaning it's incredibly easy to pick off kills when he can. Gogo unhindered mobility. He's a bit of a bitch to train, but hell, you get the best flyer that doesnt cost 20k to recruit in return, and a great unit in general.
Yes, lash out. Soon you will join the Peg Side!
Indeed. Bad Str and locked to Swords. Yucky yucky offence.
Indeed. Sad thing is, with his blegh growths, and his high level, it wont improve much. And that Hp.... is 2 above HM Heath's base. That's bad. Seriously. Speaking of his high level, with his over-levelledness, hes a detriment (you love that word, right?) to your Exp rank.
So, when they first show up together, Jaffar wins. Shoop da whoop. Heath is 9 levels lower, he's levelling much faster. Not to mention his growths, like, destroy Jaffar's.
And he'll need them to have bearable offense. Good job being Funds-inefficient, Jaffar!
It is, AFAIK, something that has a 50% chance of activating when you Crit. So without a Killer Edge, noone's really interested in the skill's activation chance, since it isnt reliable at all. Hell, even WITH one it's a 21% chance on any given attack. Meh.
Also, if the chance is Skl/2, how is it a 21% chance? Does he have 42 Skl? Nigga what? Yes. I like how you decided to ignore Killer/Steel/Silver Heath can bust out when it's needed. He's not a prepromo so his use of funds is more limited, but he can afford to bust out those weapons when he needs them.
That Hp and Def, put together, are worth more then the res and Hp. Especially since vs. Lances and swords, Heath, due to WTA/N has a +15 Avd/+1 Def, making Heath have a slight avoid LEAD, and making his Def 2 higher.
Yet... we're not always going to be using those character, now are we? Fiora when we have Florina as a Peg, and Heath as a secondary flyer? Wryyyy. And Lyn... well, she's good enough, but that promotion is just fucked up. So that B isnt all that unlikely.
No duh.
Yes, Archers. Wow. Heath's Def/Hp is fine. He can em if needed, and considering his move, which is unrestricted by anything save the edge of the map, means he can fly in to rape em without getting countered. Yayes. Terrain bonusses are handy, but Heath's fine without them. Hell, considering it enhances his ability to move in for the kill, it's a perk more then a detriment.
It's there, for when you make mistakes. Which is, youknow, human. Sure, we're trying to be as fast and good as possible, but we still make mistakes. Even if you're, like, Inui.
Yes, wow, he gets to squander my cash. Wow. w00t. And shit. He's still locked to the weakest weapon type.
The man looks spiffy, I'll grant you that. That, however, does not a good unit make. And hell, Assassin Legault looks better anyways. And then, there's the fact Jaffar's only real leads are crappy, with Skl and Spd, in a game where enemies have no Lck and Low Spd, making both hitting and DA-ing easy. And, ofcourse, Heath's lovely boost to the Exp rank, while Jaffar hurts it. And Heath's still the manlier man, no matter how spiffy Jaffar looks. He's still a sword-using pansy. |
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Previously known as: Serra, Hakato, Hakado, Dorgie Poo, Pearl Fey, Kallen and Sailor Moon HakaDSie>Kovutachi
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| Sentenal | Jul 18 2007, 06:17 PM Post #5 |
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When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat.
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It means I'm not trying to lie to judges about my character to try and get a win 
Best Flyer? Heath isn't a Miledy or Jill. Florina/Fiora dodge fine, have good RES, and Crit liek woah. Plus are better than Heath when you get him. If you want a flyer, go with one of those bitchs (Soul on brink of death). You gotta pour lots of time, babying, and EXP into Heath to bring him up to par. Hell, even AFTER you pour all that babying into Heath, Jaffar is better than him when you get him. And most non-spriters consider Jaffar to be bad. So you train and train, and Jaffar is still better? And then you have to train him even more to make him good? Shit like this is why I don't like FE7.
I got 4 Wyverns in my guild, so that hopefully will make up for it.
Tons more SPD=able to use heavier weapons when needed to equal/out damage Heath.
15 Base DEF is good. At 20/20, Jaffar gets 17 DEF, which is on the same level of someone like Eliwood. Not to mention Jaffar has decent avoid and RES. His defensive abilities will never make him fragile. Less of a liability (that word is better, you fag) than Heath is to your Funds rank, with his promotion.
Heath has already had so much EXP poured into him, and he STILL isn't as good. So why even bother?
Don't talk to me about Funds, when you are arguing Heath against a prepromotion. Heath is 10k more expensive than Jaffar, due to promotion. Jaffar can use weapons tons of weapons like a Killer Edge, Steel Sword, and at the same cost as Heath's promotion alone is. And that isn't counting the weapons Heath would have had to use to level up to get to promotion. And if Jaffar's "offense" is just bearable, even with those weapons, than what is Heath's, whose offense is worse?
Crit/2? I dunno, something like that. But, since Jaffar can use a killer edge lots, and still be funds neutral compared to Heath, 21% is a nice chance to OHKO an enemy, especially when Jaffar doubles just about everything. 42% chance of OHKOing an enemy every round? Sexy.
Mispoke, RPGDL says crit/2, hense, 21%. Heath can bust out those Killer/Steel/Silver Weapons out, and rape your funds even worse. Good job, Heath. Jaffar can afford to bust them out against like everything lol. Advantage, Jaffar.
So you are ignoring the fact that Heath is raped by mages and bows, while Jaffar isn't? And Jaffar can get terran bonuses, and Heath can't?
Yeah it is. You don't promote Eliwood first every single playthrough. And promoting Lyn doesn't mean you automatically can't S rank. Heath would only get that support if both Fiora and Lyn are not being used. Yeah, that isn't likely in a ranked run. Heath getting Kent B is unlikely. They are much earlier, and faster. Florina AND Fiora is actually almost expected, so you can support the two. So if you are gunning Heath as the secondary flyer, then he has lots of trouble getting that spot, since Fiora can support Florina. Not to mention Heath's function AS a flyer will keep him away from his partner, and make it even harder to build.
Yes, because they are always alone, and Heath always one-rounds them. Archers hit Heath for alot, since they get effective bonus vs Heath, and Heath's DEF doesn't turn into incredible till later on the in the game. Heath can't just ignore them.
I don't get how getting DEF and avoid bonuses from standing on terrian can be a liability.
Mistakes, sorta like having Heath fly into a field of mages or bows? Yes, mistakes do happen.
And he is better than Heath <3 Jaffar, locked to the weakest weapon type, able to use alot more weapons due to funds, and STILL better than Heath. If Jaffar squanders your cash by using alot of Killer Edges, then I don't want to even think about what you call what Heath does to it when he promotes.
Nah, this looks better:  And also, the only reason I freaking chose Jaffar, was to have an excuse to spam my old sprite animations. U R NOT INSULTING CLASS ENOUGH, U BASTID.
Jaffar's offense is better. Why? SPD. Double attacking isn't an issue for Heath after a while, since he does grow good SPD. However, Jaffar has MORE SPD. More SPD, means Jaffar can use heavier weapons, to balanace out his lower STR, and still be faster than Heath. I mean, why do you think fags like Lance so much? Heath's lovely boost to the EXP rank, which is hardly exclusive to him, since there are plenty of other units who boost it as well. Jaffar is better for funds, since he doesn't require to be promoted. Heath hurts it 
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| +Reaver | Jul 22 2007, 09:40 AM Post #6 |
Troll
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Hakado times out. |
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10:14 AM Nov 28
