Reikken

 

Sophia's Fail stat starts out capped

STARSHOOP WOOPER

Jul 11 2007, 06:41 PM

Reikken

 

Sophia's Fail stat starts out capped

Indeed it does. LvL 1 in Ch. 14 is obviously terrible. Ward joins on a higher level twelve chapters earlier.

[/run levelead hax.exe]

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The only thing she has going for her that I can see is that she gives you a Talisman or something in FE7.

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The problem here is that Ward can't use levelead hax.exe. He has to actually fight things to level up, which is bad because he sux at fighting. And sucking is a bad thing, obviously.
By the time Sophia joins, he has lots of suck built up, and Sophia doesn't have any yet.

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Now, they're both crappy, but at least Sophia is helping the exp rank. Where's the positive to using Ward? Oh, but you can just not use Ward, and just wait until later, so that he would be helping the exp rank, right? Sure, but then he's likely to get killed. See, when Sophia attacks, she doesn't have to get countered. Ward can attack ranged as well, but then his hit becomes horrible. The 2 RN system is working against him, and to a large extent. Liek, 20% real ftl. So that option doesn't exist for Ward.

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sucking but helping exp rank > just sucking

C475_1337

Aug 19 2007, 05:19 PM

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The problem here is that Ward can't use levelead hax.exe. He has to actually fight things to level up, which is bad because he sux at fighting. And sucking is a bad thing, obviously.
By the time Sophia joins, he has lots of suck built up, and Sophia doesn't have any yet.

Are you kidding? Ward has had alot of levels to grow his fail stat, yes, I'll grant that, but Sophia's starts off capped and stays that way. Ward >>> Sophia from the instant she joins until the end of the game.

Also, Ward is probably forced into some early chapters anyway, unless this isn't like FE7 or FE8 and the preparations screen is available right away.

And regardless of that, I daresay the gap between using Ward and using Dieck or someone early on is less than the gap between Ward and Sophia when the little girl joins. Ward when he joins might be on the lower end of your units (might be), but even if he is the gap isn't very large or anything, while Sophia is leagues below erribody when she joins.

In the face of these facts, Ward = w1nn4r.

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Now, they're both crappy, but at least Sophia is helping the exp rank. Where's the positive to using Ward? Oh, but you can just not use Ward, and just wait until later, so that he would be helping the exp rank, right? Sure, but then he's likely to get killed. See, when Sophia attacks, she doesn't have to get countered. Ward can attack ranged as well, but then his hit becomes horrible. The 2 RN system is working against him, and to a large extent. Liek, 20% real ftl. So that option doesn't exist for Ward.

Using either one is a negative, don't pretend otherwise. Having Sophia pad the Exp Rank is retarded, Fa is obviously much much better for that task.

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No, he's getting doubled by several enemies, like even the cavaliers in ch 4, and obviously by Mercs and Nomads, and having the lowest def of any of the physical attackers doesn't help. And he gets about 55 hit on enemies. No one else sucks that much.

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Also, one Sophia promotes, she can actually be useful with healing and junk.

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The point is that if you use Ward, all you get is suck. If you use Sophia, you still get suck, but you also get help to the exp rank. And a free Guiding Ring. And staves after promotion.

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When Sophia joins, Ward has been hurting the team much longer, and therefore, much more.

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Second, I’ll bring up, in response, the fact that Ward actually has supports, and is actually the best option for Dieck and Lott:

Dieck x Ward B: +1 Atk/+1 Def/+10 Avo/+5 Hit/+10 Crit/+5 CEV
Dieck x Rutger B: +0 Atk/+1 Def/+10 Avo/+5 Hit/+10 Crit/+10 CEV
Dieck x Clarine B: +0 Atk/+2 Def/+10 Avo/+0 Hit/+10 Crit/+10 CEV

The bonuses from Clarine are about even with those from Ward at the very best, and Ward’s bonuses are clearly better than Rutger’s(yes, 1 Atk > 5 CEV). And then the Ward Support is significantly faster; builds at a rate of +2 vs Rutger/Clarine’s +1, and Ward Support also has a higher base than Rutger. Plus Ward joins 2 chapters earlier than either Rutger or Clarine.

If I was Dieck I’d sure want to support Ward. Equal or better bonuses at a faster rate ftw.

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“but sophia support fa and igrene”

1. Both weak units (Fa has a terrible start and is limited to only 30 attacks; Igrene has the worst class, middling stats at best, and an LOL support list; hell, Fa is allowed in a low tiers tournament, that should say something right there).  If you’re already using the epitomy of fail that is Sophia, you probably don’t want to stack even more fail on top of that by using even more crappy units.

2. Even if the supports happen, which they usually won’t (and never will they both happen together), they start much later than Ward’s, and thus won’t finish until much later.  Ward would be giving bonuses for a much longer length of time.  Giving bonuses for almost the entire game >>> giving bonuses for only the near-endgame.

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“free guiding ring”

First, I’m confused as to how you figure this, and would like an explanation.  She doesn't join with one.  If you get one for recruiting her or something, or deploying her in one chapter, that doesn't require her to be used.

Second, it's entirely insignificant regardless.  This game’s Funds Rank is even more lenient than FE7’s, which is already cake to S Rank.  Another 10K in assets means almost nothing at all towards that.  Even if it mattered, which it doesn't, Ward can counter by the fact that Axes are considerably cheaper than Dark and Staves.

...

'k, I looked on Serenes.  Apparently only Sophia can pick up a Guiding Ring in the desert.  Well, like I said already, she doesn't have to be trained or anything, except fielded for one chapter, to get that.  IIRC pplz don't get points for items they join with, which is the same situation (for example, Louise joins w/ White Gem and must be fielded for one chapter).  Similar to the way that Dart must be fielded in one chapter to get Geitz, but you never hear him being boosted on the tier lists because of it.

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Actually, scratch that, her incredibly crappy durability even after promotion counters it already (promoted Sophia gives you another healer to help keep others alive, but she is herself a very frail unit that dies when sneezed on), and then the babying needed to gain staves at all would just be a massive amount of phail stacked on top of that.

“but ward liability too”

Not to nearly the same extent as Sophia.  A 20/10 Ward with Lott and Dieck support faces only ~7% real Hit from Ch. 21’s Steel Lance Dragon Knights, and takes 5 hits from them in order to die.  A 20/10 Sophia (extremely lenient to her) faces ~43% real hit and dies in only two hits.  That’s an overwhelming durability advantage for Ward even when Sophia was assumed to be on the same level, which is almost certainly not going to happen.  The simple fact that Ward should be a few levels away from promotion when Sophia joins at 1/0 is evidence enough that they should *never* be on the same level.

In fact, we’ll take it even farther than that, and remove Ward’s supports; now he’s 4HKO’d at about the same hit as Sophia.  So even with absurd favoritism shown towards Sophia (assuming she’s on the same level as Ward, taking off Ward’s supports), Ward still lives twice as long in the given example?  Indeed.  If the situation is bad for Sophia when everything is played in her favor to the greatest extent that is even remotely reasonable, then imagine what it’s like when the situation is viewed realistically.  In case your imagination is weak, I’ll just let you know:  It’s not a pretty sight.

Oh wait, we didn’t factor in Ward’s WTA over Wyverns in this situation, did we?  And just when I thought things couldn’t get any uglier for Sophia.  Anyway.

C475_1337

Aug 29 2007, 03:56 PM

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No, he's getting doubled by several enemies, like even the cavaliers in ch 4, and obviously by Mercs and Nomads, and having the lowest def of any of the physical attackers doesn't help. And he gets about 55 hit on enemies. No one else sucks that much.

That’s right, go off on a side tangent like this, and ignore the actual point being made. The main point, restated in a more concise form so that you have no more opportunities to try and divert it, is this:

I daresay the gap between using Ward and using Dieck or someone early on is less than the gap between Ward and Sophia when the little girl joins.

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Also, one Sophia promotes, she can actually be useful with healing and junk.

*After* she promotes. That is not happening without considerable babysitting; Sophia can kill nothing at all on her own when she first joins, and gets killed by everything. Her joining situation is by far the worst in the entire game, I believe. She has to be blocked off alot so that she doesn’t get raped, and has to have others severely weaken things for her (frequently going out of their way to do so) in order to ever kill anything.

And even when she has a shot at finishing something, her hit is terrible; at base level, 75 Hit with Flux—50 Hit against an enemy with 10 AS and 5 Luck (not unreasonable at all for an FE6 HM enemy). So take the amount of times you have to weaken things for her already, and multiply by two, to account for all the times she misses. Wow. Even more suck. No, suck is still a huge understatement, I don't even know how to properly express how massive this is......worst combat ability possible, pretty much.

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As for Sophia’s help to the Exp Rank which you tote?  First, remember that terrible base Hit I mentioned earlier?  Getting high Exp gains half the time doesn't look so good when you get only 1 Exp the other half of the time.